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dj_clawson posted:The comics are actually down to his granddaughter now. She was a recent villian in Matt's San Francisco adventures. Right now she is his ally
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Apr 30, 2015 20:00
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bobkatt013 posted:Right now she is his ally Wasn't she the one who blinded over half of San Francisco? To be fair I read that graphic novel REALLY fast when I was in Barnes and Noble today.
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Apr 30, 2015 20:03
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Fisk and Matt have opposite opinions of what's worth saving about Hell's Kitchen. Fisk thinks that the people are lovely, not just the buildings. He think's it's a disease and he's the cure. His memories of Hell's Kitchen are bullies and drunks and sawing up bodies. Matt, on the other hand, thinks that the poor and downtrodden should be saved and lifted up, rather than cast aside and replaced. Unless their lovely economic situation caused them to become criminals, and then he's on the exact same page as Fisk. Which is hilariously hypocritical of him. After all, Matt felt that he couldn't accomplish his goals within the law, so he turned to crime (vigilantism, violent assault and battery) to get what he wants. And it's okay for him to do it, because reasons.
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Apr 30, 2015 20:04
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BottledBodhisvata posted:(although that is probably cartoonishly evil too) It's gentrification. Literally that is it, it's militant gentrification. It's what actually happened to Hell's Kitchen before it got erased by an alien invasion in the MCU. It'll be incredibly profitable in the same way that owning the land middle class to rich white people operate in is always profitable, and it's evil to the degree you think "gently caress the poor" is evil. It's the reason why the Russians were always going to be eliminated. They were thugs, and the place he was creating wouldn't have room for them. His other partners were a ninja clan, a magic kung fu alien, and an accountant. Street level crime was never the backbone of what he was doing, just a means to an end to help finance what he was doing and to speed the process along.
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Apr 30, 2015 20:07
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dj_clawson posted:Wasn't she the one who blinded over half of San Francisco? To be fair I read that graphic novel REALLY fast when I was in Barnes and Noble today. That was in the future. Currently Matt is helping her save him, and since he is Matt Murdoch his life has gone to hell and he is asking help from the Kingpin.
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Apr 30, 2015 20:07
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bobkatt013 posted:That was in the future. Currently Matt is helping her save him, and since he is Matt Murdoch his life has gone to hell and he is asking help from the Kingpin. Matt's life has gone to hell? This series has taken an unexpectedly dark turn!
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Apr 30, 2015 20:09
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Snak posted:Matt, on the other hand, thinks that the poor and downtrodden should be saved and lifted up, rather than cast aside and replaced. Unless their lovely economic situation caused them to become criminals, and then he's on the exact same page as Fisk. Which is hilariously hypocritical of him. After all, Matt felt that he couldn't accomplish his goals within the law, so he turned to crime (vigilantism, violent assault and battery) to get what he wants. And it's okay for him to do it, because reasons.
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Apr 30, 2015 20:18
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Snak posted:Fisk and Matt have opposite opinions of what's worth saving about Hell's Kitchen. Fisk thinks that the people are lovely, not just the buildings. This, exactly. In-keeping with the Catholic themes of the show, I also read a shame and guilt component to this. Matty's experience of Hell's Kitchen is marked by pride, for his community and his family. He wants to save the Hell's Kitchen of his youth. But Fisk remembers it as a brutal, traumatizing, shameful ordeal. The murder of his father literally haunts Fisk to this day; he sees it every morning. It's unsurprising the offense that got Ben Urich killed was uncovering the truth of that past. And it's unsurprising that Fisk's version of saving Hell's Kitchen is burning it to the ground and rebuilding something better from scratch. It's what he attempted to do with his very persona...which is an irony, because the only way to secure the power he needs is to become the same apish thug his father was. In that sense, Hell's Kitchen is less a disease Fisk wants to cure as a secret he wants buried.
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Apr 30, 2015 20:29
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It's also why Daredevil survives after Nobu burns. Fisk doesn't want to kill people himself. He's sophisticated now. He has grown beyond that. He has people to do that for him. That's why what would normally be a horribly stupid, eyerolling blunder of allowing the hero to escape worked for me. But that doesn't really work out for him.
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Apr 30, 2015 20:40
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Wilson Fisk's motivations were explained rather clearly in the flashbacks relating to his father. I think they were rather simple: control your environment, stand up for yourself and be somebody. Hide your fear and your weakness. Kick them again. He's not the typical, nefarious, mustache twirling Dr. Evil villain. He just wants control and power over his environment like his Dad did when he ran for city council. That's what makes the "we're not so different, you and me" cliche between Matt and Wilson actually ring true for once. They both have daddy issues, control issues, are prone to violence and operate outside the law to achieve similar goals.
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Apr 30, 2015 20:48
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Harry posted:I'll have to rewatch the scene, but it sounded like it had already happened and the deal was that Fisk wasn't going to kill him. I'm pretty sure it was business as usual until Fisk sprung the "SO I noticed that there were some weird numbers in the accounting sheet!" card and then Owlsley revealed he had a backup plan with the "Okay you got me, but wait don't kill me and instead gimme half your money, or else that one cop dude is gonna blab everything about you" thing.
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Apr 30, 2015 21:11
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dj_clawson posted:Matt's life has gone to hell? This series has taken an unexpectedly dark turn! Not in the last comic I read, he just decided to nix the costume and go with a flamboyant red business suit and now is lawyer'ing it up as Daredevil [Esq.]
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Apr 30, 2015 21:27
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Burning_Monk posted:Not in the last comic I read, he just decided to nix the costume and go with a flamboyant red business suit and now is lawyer'ing it up as Daredevil [Esq.] Read this weeks.
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Apr 30, 2015 21:28
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bobkatt013 posted:Read this weeks. Off to the comic store I go (well after work)!
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Apr 30, 2015 21:42
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Snak posted:It's also why Daredevil survives after Nobu burns. Fisk doesn't want to kill people himself. He's sophisticated now. He has grown beyond that. He has people to do that for him. That's why what would normally be a horribly stupid, eyerolling blunder of allowing the hero to escape worked for me. But that doesn't really work out for him. Unless you were to embarrass him in front of her!
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Apr 30, 2015 22:59
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counterfeitsaint posted:Unless you were to embarrass him in front of her! Right. Angry Fisk is not sophisticated. Angry Fisk is the real Fisk. Angry Fisk is best Fisk.
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Apr 30, 2015 23:21
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Snak posted:Fisk and Matt have opposite opinions of what's worth saving about Hell's Kitchen. Fisk thinks that the people are lovely, not just the buildings. He think's it's a disease and he's the cure. His memories of Hell's Kitchen are bullies and drunks and sawing up bodies. Matt, on the other hand, thinks that the poor and downtrodden should be saved and lifted up, rather than cast aside and replaced. Unless their lovely economic situation caused them to become criminals, and then he's on the exact same page as Fisk. Which is hilariously hypocritical of him. After all, Matt felt that he couldn't accomplish his goals within the law, so he turned to crime (vigilantism, violent assault and battery) to get what he wants. And it's okay for him to do it, because reasons. A super hero that refused to fight a Russian human trafficker because he's as much a victim as the children he's abusing would be pretty hilarious.
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Apr 30, 2015 23:41
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The Sharmat posted:A super hero that refused to fight a Russian human trafficker because he's as much a victim as the children he's abusing would be pretty hilarious. I don't mean him. Matt beats the poo poo out of a lot of people for information. Can he really be sure they all deserve it? And the show has done a pretty good job of making sure that yes, they do, but that's a storytelling convenience so that Matt gets to be the hero. He also ALWAYS hits them, without even checking if they will cooperate before he does. Basically where Fisk acts like he doesn't like to hurt people, but deep down he does, Matt acts like he loves hurting people, but deep down he feels guilty about it. Matt is horrified at the brutality of the world and responds in kind, because he doesn't know how else to affect change. Fisk is horrified at the brutality of the world and tries to distance himself from it, but ultimately fails.
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Apr 30, 2015 23:47
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A super hero that does a thorough background check and psychological analysis on everyone before he starts questioning them would also be pretty hilarious.
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Apr 30, 2015 23:56
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Snak posted:I don't mean him. Matt beats the poo poo out of a lot of people for information. Can he really be sure they all deserve it? And the show has done a pretty good job of making sure that yes, they do, but that's a storytelling convenience so that Matt gets to be the hero. He also ALWAYS hits them, without even checking if they will cooperate before he does. Daredevil can sense that they deserve it or some poo poo. You wouldn't understand. You're not super blind.
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May 1, 2015 01:24
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D&D Man.
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May 1, 2015 01:31
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Be a responsible neighbor. If you've got a Daredevil living in your neighborhood, carry around a taser. If you get caught without one, it's basically on you at that point.
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May 1, 2015 03:10
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Snak posted:I don't mean him. Matt beats the poo poo out of a lot of people for information. Can he really be sure they all deserve it? And the show has done a pretty good job of making sure that yes, they do, but that's a storytelling convenience so that Matt gets to be the hero. He also ALWAYS hits them, without even checking if they will cooperate before he does. Actually I thought a really strong part of the show was with the junkie in one of the later episodes, I forget which, who is clearly this pathetic addict who isn't in control of his actions and will do anything for his fix- a sad wreck of a person instead of some violent thug, how Matt just gives no fucks because he considers the end worth the means, and as is brought up a couple times early on in the show, he also just likes the satisfaction of beating the poo poo out of somebody when he's frustrated. It drives home that pretty much the only thing seperating fisk and matt is that matt lives in constant guilt, the root of it is his conviction that he got his father killed (and arguably, if he was really as conscious of how he's manipulating his dad as it seems like in the flashbacks, he is responsible), which makes him feel like he has to do all these other things, which leads to *further* guilt, because he knows it's not the right thing to do (lying to foggy, beating up junkies, numerous other things I can't remember at the moment but know happened, etc). Interestingly enough, Fisk DEFINITELY kills his father, but feels no guilt. So much cool character stuff in this show. surc fucked around with this message at 04:56 on May 1, 2015 |
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May 1, 2015 04:49
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Fisk is a crime lord, Murdock is a revolutionary. And a little boy who wanted his dad to win a boxing match is not a murdering mastermind.
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May 1, 2015 05:05
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He also abuses his superpowers by pretending to be blind in order to stare at breasts.
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May 1, 2015 05:14
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surc posted:Interestingly enough, Fisk DEFINITELY kills his father, but feels no guilt. So much cool character stuff in this show. I wouldn't say he feels no guilt. It's a possible interpretation. The only thing we know for sure (unless there's some dialogue I'm forgetting) is that he's haunted by the act, perpetually stuck in that moment of trying to find calm in the storm via the white wall in its various incarnations. While his associations with the white wall are about as horrific as you get (his father almost beating his mother to death), he still buys the painting and puts it up so it's the first thing he sees in the morning. There's a lot of room left for interpretation there; he could be trying to look away from the horror around him as he was ordered to do, or he may be forcing himself to relive it because he is simply unable to escape it.
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May 1, 2015 05:18
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I always kind of read it as him "thinking about the kind of man he wants to be" (I think that's how his dad phrases it), and coming to a decision. Sure, he has all these traumatic memories that wake him up in the middle of the night, but I figured from the way they set it up, that the trauma was his abusive drunken father, and that's why a substitute for that wall is so soothing to him. It reminds him of his 'purpose' of destroying this monstrous thing he sees, and the man he wants to be (Or, the man he created as a kid that he thought he should be. I also like that whole thing with the reflection, and how Vanessa helps him finally become a man instead of a boy's image of a man and/or get past that trauma that's been haunting him so long.)
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May 1, 2015 05:46
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surc posted:I always kind of read it as him "thinking about the kind of man he wants to be" (I think that's how his dad phrases it), and coming to a decision. Sure, he has all these traumatic memories that wake him up in the middle of the night, but I figured from the way they set it up, that the trauma was his abusive drunken father, and that's why a substitute for that wall is so soothing to him. It reminds him of his 'purpose' of destroying this monstrous thing he sees, and the man he wants to be (Or, the man he created as a kid that he thought he should be. I also like that whole thing with the reflection, and how Vanessa helps him finally become a man instead of a boy's image of a man and/or get past that trauma that's been haunting him so long.) I definitely think the wall/painting is his safe place. While he hated his dad, staring at the wall and thinking about the man he wanted to be is what allowed him to take charge of his life. Every time he feels lost or scared, he practices that exercise in order to take charge of his life. And it seems to work for him. Which is why I think it's extra funny when he says he's bad at meditation, since what he does is very arguably a form of meditation. He just doesn't realize it.
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May 1, 2015 06:39
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Halloween Jack posted:Then they fill in the rest with a series of third-stringers; Daredevil fought Leap-Frog, Boomerang, and Shotgun before Bendis was halfway through his run. Boomerang gets no respect, no respect.
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May 1, 2015 07:06
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Snak posted:I don't mean him. Matt beats the poo poo out of a lot of people for information. Can he really be sure they all deserve it? It could be worse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf4vrAnbT7I God I hope he's added to season 2. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 09:35 on May 1, 2015 |
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May 1, 2015 09:24
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Daredevil is blind Jack Bauer. I think the actual daredevil costume ended up being dumb looking. I liked the mask more. PantsBandit fucked around with this message at 17:17 on May 1, 2015 |
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May 1, 2015 16:54
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PantsBandit posted:Daredevil is blind Jack Bauer. I was getting kinda sick of his xenomorph penis head but yeah, it is.
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May 1, 2015 18:22
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PantsBandit posted:Daredevil is blind Jack Bauer. Except Jack Bauer managed to kill 309 people in 9 on screen days, which is pretty hilarious. Also, I agree. There were several comic elements they abruptly shoved in that felt damaging at the last minute, to be entirely honest; it was like suddenly they were like "poo poo! We better put all this iconic stuff in right the gently caress now in case we're not renewed!" during production. I hope they keep it in check next season.
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May 1, 2015 18:32
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PantsBandit posted:Daredevil is blind Jack Bauer. Jack Bauer already has a superhero costume 
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May 1, 2015 18:36
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What happened to the avocado infinity gem?
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May 1, 2015 18:48
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Pictured below: An intimidating figure
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May 1, 2015 18:52
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PantsBandit posted:Pictured below: An intimidating figure I give Fisk credit for not bursting out laughing when he sees this.
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May 1, 2015 18:55
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Ugh such a good series marred by that ending. I mean, if you're going to play up the devil business, they should've done a backlit silhouette to emphasize the horns or something https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wwItkoapuA&t=78s
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May 1, 2015 19:24
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PantsBandit posted:Daredevil is blind Jack Bauer. zorro mask and tactical turtleneck was more badass
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May 1, 2015 23:56
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His costume should have just been putting some cheep costume horns on top of his zorro mask, and wearing a red turtleneck instead. Would have owned.
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May 2, 2015 00:00
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