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Speedball posted:Yeah, exactly. Functioning mob bosses probably get further by not Jokering their subordinates at the first sign of trouble. Hell, Uncle Po makes you forget he's even in charge of a criminal empire at all. They also usually don't show up to do it in person/watch. Really, they'd probably have just called Aiden once he escaped the police and told him to lock the passenger doors and drive the car off a pier.
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May 21, 2015 15:19
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Speaking of old memes on billboards, someone hacked an old friend onto one of those digital signs recently. (Warning for heavily censored goatse I suppose) The past-future is now! Also my bet on what they were drinking is a dark rum like Kraken or something.
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May 21, 2015 15:27
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Speaking of old memes on billboards, someone hacked an old friend onto one of those digital signs recently. (Warning for heavily censored goatse I suppose) The past-future is now! From what I've seen, your standard roadside construction sign is ridiculously easy to hack because if they're wireless they're effectively unprotected. It's kind of sad when a B movie from 6 years ago has a villain who's legitimately insane, but has more smarts and charisma for running a mob than Quinn here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPHJrhKC75I
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May 21, 2015 15:54
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Astro Nut posted:As to the Badboy17 thing, I think the 'You don't look 17' line was meant to be, well, a joke but how could the writers gently caress up a joke so badly after the moose / ska band line?
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May 21, 2015 16:08
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Speedball posted:Yeah, exactly. Functioning mob bosses probably get further by not Jokering their subordinates at the first sign of trouble. Hell, Uncle Po makes you forget he's even in charge of a criminal empire at all. Uncle Po is one of the most convincing organized crime bosses I've ever seen in fiction. Also he scares the poo poo out of me. I can easily imagine a real life mob boss with the same sort of character and it just works.
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May 21, 2015 16:12
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pkfan2004 posted:It still even had the same drat French accent too. Well it makes sense. It is, after all, her voice being run through a synthesizer.
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May 21, 2015 16:30
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Chip Cheezum posted:In a few days we'll have another mini-update where Ironicus' short series on the history of Chicago will begin. I'm putting more effort into the video side of it than I originally planned, so that's why it's not being posted with today's update.  Yeeeeeeeeeeeessssssss I can't wait to hear on that I'm super-hyped for it! Come for the shitfest, stay for the Chicagos! So, I like the evil mob boss villain more than I like the hacker anti-hero. That means the story was written really badly. Like, how the hell does this game make me respect an old knife-thrusting rear end in a top hat who at the very least is not a drat hypocrite as far as I've seen and who, despite being pretty old, commands a clear amount of respect from his people? Especially when Aiden whines about "not putting a bullet between his eyes" when you are right loving THERE and apparently unstoppable with your SkyMall-ordered special police baton. The Vosgian Beast posted:I did too, but mostly because Badboy17's voice sounded like a female voice run through a synthesizer. Holy poo poo, you're trying to convince us he's Batman but he can't even figure out the right gender of his so-called "most trusted" companion, and then he does meet her for the first time and he gets loving livid. And not even a good character design, someone noted she looked VERY like Lisbeth Salander and I agree it is almost exact right down to the illegal age inappropriate implication. What a loving shitlord he is, I think Aiden might be the most hateful protagonist in recent gaming years. BlazeEmblem posted:I knew she was based on something. So that's why she seemed familiar. Except the whole choking thing.  ugh. Bobbin Threadbare posted:The game tries to justify the cutscene with Aiden's voiceover talking about wanting to "rattle" Badboy17, but since we've established that Aiden's voiceovers are revisions made after the cutscene mocap, I have to wonder why he was originally going to be even more of a douchebag. You can't be serious. Bobbin please tell me you're not serious, that's such terrible planning! FinalGamer fucked around with this message at 16:56 on May 21, 2015 |
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May 21, 2015 16:49
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No its even funnier. It's Clara who accuses Aiden of trying to intimidate her using a "classic" routine. EDIT: \/ Just wait. It only gets worse/funnier as the game goes on. Mokinokaro fucked around with this message at 21:46 on May 21, 2015 |
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May 21, 2015 16:58
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I get the impression when they wrote the actual cutscenes Aiden was supposed to be a sociopath, then later on they changed him into being Batman. Hence the discrepancy between cutscenes and phone calls.
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May 21, 2015 17:02
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A lot of the writing reeks of attempting to be as bad rear end as possible. V, Batman, and Rorschach would try to intimidate her so Aiden will do it too.
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May 21, 2015 17:07
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ThatPazuzu posted:A lot of the writing reeks of attempting to be as bad rear end as possible. V, Batman, and Rorschach would try to intimidate her so Aiden will do it too. Rorschach more than likely would've just started breaking her fingers. As a... plus? though, the misogyny wouldn't be out of character.
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May 21, 2015 17:18
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deadly_pudding posted:Assassin's Creed does this pretty consistently. The player character is basically a cardboard cutout with a tragic backstory, who ends up surrounded by bitchin history people. Even if the protagonist is somewhat interesting or likable, as with Ezio Auditore or Edward Kenway, they still end up overshadowed by side characters or even antagonists, typically because those characters either have higher stakes in the story, are more dramatic individuals, or both; see Adewale, Mary Read, Haytham Kenway, and others. Edward Kenway's basically self-aware of his role as a player stand-in. The Templars are on one side going "plot plot plot" while the Assassins are on the other going "plot plot plot" and he just looks at them and says "what's in it for me? Oh man, I get a boat? Screw you guys, I'm gonna go sail around and be a pirate! What? Yeah, yeah, Observatory whatever, watch me dagger this guy in the FACE!"
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May 21, 2015 17:45
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Aiden is kind of like how of a person with no awareness sees Rorschach. Aiden is a violent sociopath that kills criminals and can't dress himself just like Rorschach but Alan Moore is a good enough writer to illustrate that Rorschach is a broken mess of a man and not a hero at all.Bruceski posted:Edward Kenway's basically self-aware of his role as a player stand-in. The Templars are on one side going "plot plot plot" while the Assassins are on the other going "plot plot plot" and he just looks at them and says "what's in it for me? Oh man, I get a boat? Screw you guys, I'm gonna go sail around and be a pirate! What? Yeah, yeah, Observatory whatever, watch me dagger this guy in the FACE!" Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 17:51 on May 21, 2015 |
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May 21, 2015 17:46
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Like everyone else, I'm almost rooting for Lucky Quinn at this point. Guy's a straight-up old-fashioned mob boss with style, charisma, and no attempt to pretend he's anything other than what he is. Aiden is a misogynistic jackass who blows up street corners and causes massively fatal traffic accidents when he's not literally beating a man into the ground with a police baton or robbing a stranger's bank account. Plus, Aiden likes memes, a huge negative. Why are we not playing as Lucky Quinn dealing with the deranged hacker with delusions of grandeur who is cutting into our turf?
Patter Song fucked around with this message at 17:53 on May 21, 2015 |
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May 21, 2015 17:48
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Neruz posted:Uncle Po is one of the most convincing organized crime bosses I've ever seen in fiction. Also he scares the poo poo out of me. I can easily imagine a real life mob boss with the same sort of character and it just works. There's also the fact that you absolutely know he could in fact have the characters killed at any point, and that he has done quite a few people. He just doesn't do it pointlessly because he'd prefer his Triad not be full of constant infighting any more than it already needs to be and because he really likes making huge amounts of money. His dossier also mentions he really likes being seen as a reasonable and benevolent person and enjoys donating to charity both to launder his money and to make sure people in his territory won't betray him to the police. He's that guy who read the Prince and realized it advises being loved AND feared. Heck, when you read his background dossiers, one of the big reasons Big Smile Lee is so potentially bad is that he really is sort of Joker level, the kind of short-term vicious mindset that might get him to power in the near run, then get a lot of people and bystanders killed as he burns out. I'm not really seeing what people see in Quinn though, to be honest. He just seemed like kind of a jerk.
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May 21, 2015 18:00
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Patter Song posted:Like everyone else, I'm almost rooting for Lucky Quinn at this point. Guy's a straight-up old-fashioned mob boss with style, charisma, and no attempt to pretend he's anything other than what he is. Aiden is a misogynistic jackass who blows up street corners and causes massively fatal traffic accidents when he's not literally beating a man into the ground with a police baton or robbing a stranger's bank account. Plus, Aiden likes memes, a huge negative. Why are we not playing as Lucky Quinn dealing with the deranged hacker with delusions of grandeur who is cutting into our turf? A really focused skill set you can play around with UNTIL you get bodyguards you can actively command to do poo poo for you, as well as threaten people with either nice words, bribery or active threatening. Seriously I think this is a golden idea. Bruceski posted:Edward Kenway's basically self-aware of his role as a player stand-in. The Templars are on one side going "plot plot plot" while the Assassins are on the other going "plot plot plot" and he just looks at them and says "what's in it for me? Oh man, I get a boat? Screw you guys, I'm gonna go sail around and be a pirate! What? Yeah, yeah, Observatory whatever, watch me dagger this guy in the FACE!" Edward is awesome and not hypocritical because he tells you from the very get-go he does NOT give a poo poo about any of this conspiracy, he just wants to get a boat, be a pirate and loving start poo poo, that's IT. And he is awesome for it because quite frankly being a pirate in that game is waaaaaaay more fun and awesome than being an Assassin and the game knows that! Much as it has a story, it kinda does just have Edward go "gently caress this, this mission's gonna be long WANNA RAID A FORT?!  YEAAAAAAAAAAAH!"
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May 21, 2015 18:01
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Hard not to feel like whatever little consistent characterization Aiden had up to this point went flying right out the window in this update... and they thought "touchy-strangly" was a good thing to replace it with for reasons I'd honestly love to know what the hell they were thinking. Now him going up to random people in a subway station and asking if they're "Bad boys"? We could do with more of that.
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May 21, 2015 18:06
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Hey I just met you And this is crazy But here's some cell apps Don't choke me, maybe? This was the official point in this game where I became baffled that we were supposed to LIKE Aiden. How do you manage to write someone SO unlikable by complete accident? Good people don't shove people they've just met (that have done nothing but help them), or put their hands on their throat in an extremely threatening manner! Regardless of the genders at play, that's an extremely hosed up way to greet an ally to your cause - but the game makes it about gender, which therefore makes Aiden a scary misogynist fuckwad. He doesn't treat the actual main antagonists of the game with the kind of violent intimidation that he reserves for a female who is trying to help him. I also wanna point out that Lena's last name is Pearce, another likely remnant of the alternate timeline where Aiden's sister was obviously his wife. (Though in this timeline, they never EVER mention his sister's marital situation, maybe she had two kids out of wedlock? I think the more likely explanation is the former, though.)
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May 21, 2015 18:11
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Night10194 posted:I'm not really seeing what people see in Quinn though, to be honest. He just seemed like kind of a jerk.
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May 21, 2015 18:13
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Patter Song posted:Like everyone else, I'm almost rooting for Lucky Quinn at this point. Guy's a straight-up old-fashioned mob boss with style, charisma, and no attempt to pretend he's anything other than what he is. Aiden is a misogynistic jackass who blows up street corners and causes massively fatal traffic accidents when he's not literally beating a man into the ground with a police baton or robbing a stranger's bank account. Plus, Aiden likes memes, a huge negative. Why are we not playing as Lucky Quinn dealing with the deranged hacker with delusions of grandeur who is cutting into our turf?
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May 21, 2015 18:20
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I remembered that we have the  emote, so I decided to make a thing. It is a dog watching Watch_Dogs
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May 21, 2015 18:21
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FinalGamer posted:I would, no joke, love to play a game where I can be an old-rear end gangster trying to regain his territory. A man who's not fit, not able to run too fast or parkour over things, needs help to get around the city like in cars or buses, but because he's such an old man he gets around everywhere for free with his senior citizen bus pass to plan out poo poo, as well as getting real good in stealth kills with a sudden knife to the throat or being real good with small pistols he can aim with. Off topic, but I thought that was the angle SR3 should've gone with. Instead of having you kidnapped and dropped in a brand new city to make you work your way to the top again, replace the Morningstar with a group of flamboyant vigilante types who try to heroically break your stranglehold on Stilwater while you fight back in the saints' over the top fashion. Keeshhound fucked around with this message at 18:31 on May 21, 2015 |
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May 21, 2015 18:27
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Grizzwold posted:I remembered that we have the So what is it supposed to used for, when someone's being super creepy and/or misogynistic and/or unnecessarily violent? Yeah, this was about the point I lost the sympathy I had for Aiden. It's so clearly WWBD (what would batman do) and forced by some writer or producer because they want Aiden to Be the Batman but without thinking through what that actually says about his character in this environment.
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May 21, 2015 18:35
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Calax posted:You know, this game needs to be like 70's movies and randomly jump to some random dumbass who's experiencing all of this. lostsomething posted:Now him going up to random people in a subway station and asking if they're "Bad boys"? We could do with more of that. I agree, the game really could use more scenes like this. Just more scenes that zoom the focus out a bit, show what Aiden looks like to bystanders, show some self-awareness. Of course, too late for that now, but I feel that could've been used to cast Aiden in a sort of comically serious light. VoidBurger posted:I also wanna point out that Lena's last name is Pearce, another likely remnant of the alternate timeline where Aiden's sister was obviously his wife. (Though in this timeline, they never EVER mention his sister's marital situation, maybe she had two kids out of wedlock? I think the more likely explanation is the former, though.)  Though it'd probably be easy to just assume she's a widower or something that didn't want to keep the family name? That's probably the least-bad scenario I can figure out. On stupid sign memes, this is the problem with trying to exploit internet culture in your game, because it instantly becomes dated. It's a gigantic gambit that, at best, pays off in a 'ha ha I recognize what that's from' kind of way. Essentially generating a small percentage of stupid little laughs, a huge deal of groans, and quite possibly a significant demographic that just don't get the injoke at all. This awful wendy's ad is another great example of how this falls flat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTM1lYOKo5Y Clearly the correct way to go when you want to use memes is have guards in your game use a single shared line of dialogue that comes up randomly. Or have a sun-obsessed knight. Something off-the-wall and innovative like that is a surefire way to rally masses of nerds to say insufferable catchphrases! 
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May 21, 2015 18:37
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Wild Knight posted:So what is it supposed to used for, when someone's being super creepy and/or misogynistic and/or unnecessarily violent? Seriously, the gameplay of this game is okay, but the story and characterisation loving ruins everything about this.
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May 21, 2015 18:40
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Well yeah, I should have clarified that that doesn't necessarily mean they understand WWBD.
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May 21, 2015 18:48
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The Punisher wouldn't be that mean to Micro!
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May 21, 2015 18:59
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Quinn looks like a 90-year-old William Gibson.
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May 21, 2015 19:01
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VoidBurger posted:I also wanna point out that Lena's last name is Pearce, another likely remnant of the alternate timeline where Aiden's sister was obviously his wife. (Though in this timeline, they never EVER mention his sister's marital situation, maybe she had two kids out of wedlock? I think the more likely explanation is the former, though.) Or the absent husband took her name instead of the other way around. It does happen. Not saying it's not more likely a remnant of the script changes, but it's a simpler in-universe explanation than two bastard children.
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May 21, 2015 19:34
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Speaking of Aiden's sister's backstory with what the hell happened to her husband, what's the deal with Aiden? I mean, what's the actual deal with him, how did he end up like this, are we gonna touch on his backstory later? Because from the way the writing is going, I'm legitimately concerned as to if that's actually going to happen. All I remember of his backstory was some promo stuff Ubisoft was doing years ago, before everything went to poo poo development-wise. Yeah, I do kind of want to know how exactly Aiden came to be a creepy rear end in a top hat despite having well-adjusted family members (which takes a hit because of him).
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May 21, 2015 20:02
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They had a backstory for him before the rewrites. He was an ex Blume employee using their own tech and his code against them. Now he is just generically... A professional thief.
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May 21, 2015 20:07
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Felinoid posted:Or the absent husband took her name instead of the other way around. It does happen. Not saying it's not more likely a remnant of the script changes, but it's a simpler in-universe explanation than two bastard children. Here in Montreal almost nobody gets married. It's likely due to how quickly and completely we abandoned religion after the 60s. My parents were never married.
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May 21, 2015 20:10
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Speedball posted:They had a backstory for him before the rewrites. He was an ex Blume employee using their own tech and his code against them. Now he is just generically... A professional thief. ...That's boring and stupid as hell.
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May 21, 2015 20:40
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bman in 2288 posted:...That's boring and stupid as hell. It's not exactly great but I'd take that thought-about-it-during-lunch backstory over, you know, nothing. If Aiden was working for a company, found out it was doing awful poo poo, and tried to take it down from the inside, he's at least doing something for positive ends. The way it is now, he's just a thief whose illegal activity got a family member killed. I can't root for that guy, he's a prick.
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May 21, 2015 20:49
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MonsieurChoc posted:Here in Montreal almost nobody gets married. It's likely due to how quickly and completely we abandoned religion after the 60s. My parents were never married. I couldn't care less about the religious trappings, but not even a civil marriage for tax purposes? Or does Canada not give tax benefits for married couples?
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May 21, 2015 20:58
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The scenes with Clare and Quinn almost work if they just had a better picture of who Aiden is. As a professional criminal, he might absolutely detest anything to do with a scary motherfucker like Quinn, but he drat well knows he's not going to do anything about it because 1) he works for and with lower-level motherfuckers all the time, and 2) he's not putting his life on the line against the Club just to play hero for some random fuckup. Likewise, as a professional criminal, he probably wouldn't have the most respect for BadBoy17, the activist. The problem shouldn't be "He's a g-g-girl!" but the "meeting face-to-face" part. It's pretty clear Clare met face-to-face because she wants Aiden to become more involved with DedSec and use his talents to help people. Aiden just doesn't want to get caught by the police when the hammer comes down. Meeting in person is sloppy, and he'd have a good reason to try to scare her: to remind her that he's a serious criminal that has an illegal relationship with DedSec. Not an activist, and not anyone who wants to be an activist, so keep your distance; you're out of your league. In both situations, Aiden's actions would make sense for Jordi, not The Vigilante. As stated, Aiden probably started more moral (ex-Blume employee), then became more moral-gray to account for the Reputation meter, and then probably ping-ponged some more, resulting in a guy who's both a hardened criminal and a Batman. Schrodinger's Vigilante
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May 21, 2015 21:29
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Speedball posted:They had a backstory for him before the rewrites. He was an ex Blume employee using their own tech and his code against them. Now he is just generically... A professional thief. ...You know what? I would like to see a mod of this game, or a completely new game, that has some of the same general mechanics and feel of the game, but streamlines it so it's more fun, less boring, and also writing a plot that is actually good, if not decent. Tried playing this game, but the plot, atmosphere, and openness (and meaninglessness of most of the taks) of the game made me put it down and never come back. How the HELL can you screw something up that had such good potential, and the original plot of the CGI/Gameplay trailers was actually BETTER and made more sense. Why would you even rewrite that!?!
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May 21, 2015 21:32
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:It's not exactly great but I'd take that thought-about-it-during-lunch backstory over, you know, nothing. If Aiden was working for a company, found out it was doing awful poo poo, and tried to take it down from the inside, he's at least doing something for positive ends. The way it is now, he's just a thief whose illegal activity got a family member killed. I can't root for that guy, he's a prick. I actually was referring to how they went from someone with legit gripes over illegal stuff to a wannabe Robin Hood without the charity thing. I dug the disgruntled-employee thing, a guy who used to be on the inside, and got sick of the terrible bullshit, and tried to do something about it. Now... it's just boring and stupid as hell.
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May 21, 2015 21:34
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bman in 2288 posted:I actually was referring to how they went from someone with legit gripes over illegal stuff to a wannabe Robin Hood without the charity thing. I dug the disgruntled-employee thing, a guy who used to be on the inside, and got sick of the terrible bullshit, and tried to do something about it. Now... it's just boring and stupid as hell. Ah, alright. Yeah it seems a little easy, but it could have worked fine as backstory. They don't even go all-in with the "gently caress banks" angle, though, he just seems like a guy who wants money. Fine enough motivation for a criminal, but if you're going to make that your protagonist you've really got to give them some deeper motive, or a more interesting character.
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May 21, 2015 21:42
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Ah, alright. Yeah it seems a little easy, but it could have worked fine as backstory. They don't even go all-in with the "gently caress banks" angle, though, he just seems like a guy who wants money. Fine enough motivation for a criminal, but if you're going to make that your protagonist you've really got to give them some deeper motive, or a more interesting character. Although, even just 'guy who wants money' could be made to work if you use it as setup for an entertaining story and don't try to make it mean anything. I just finished GTA V and there were so many points where I'd find myself wishing that they had just dropped the whole vague pretension of being a satire of all America and the schizophrenic attempts to make us either hate or give a poo poo about the protaganists, and just made the entire game a cycle of prep-work and big fun heists and actually emphasized their best properties.
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