Merdifex posted:

Invasion of the Britons

Very similar to:

With the exception that the entire north of Hispania, including Asturias and large swathes of Tarraconensis, was invaded and settled by Britons from, well, Britain.

Fleeing Romano-British oppression in their own lands, they sailed forth with their best warriors and reached lands far and wide. Their attempted invasion of Armorica was repelled by the Goths, and so they finally found refuge in Hispania. The local lords were weak, and the invasion saw little in the way of obstruction.

They established many petty kingdoms and a few duchies, and were more than able to defend themselves from the weak remnants of the WRE in the south.

In time, they developed an unique culture, calling themselves the "Brythons" after the Latin name for them. They ruled over a mostly Hispano-Roman populace, but many areas of the north were largely depopulated, and the Brythons made up the majority in these areas, their Celtic tongue becoming the lingua franca.

Perhaps in time, a strong ruler will appear and unite all the disparate Brythonic realms, and establish the Kingdom of Brythonia.

The Brythons mostly picked up Arian Christianity from from the Goths, but many bought with them the worship of the old gods. Some druids remain in Asturia, although their religion is not the majority one.

The rest of the WRE, shattered by the Brythonic invasions and shattering apart at the centre, fell apart into smaller kingdoms under fledgling dynasties.

PLAN
Spread of Brythonic culture

Area under direct Brythonic rule


TL;DR : Celts in northern Spain.

Merdifex posted:

Invasion of the Britons

Very similar to:

With the exception that the entire north of Hispania, including Asturias and large swathes of Tarraconensis, was invaded and settled by Britons from, well, Britain.

Fleeing Romano-British oppression in their own lands, they sailed forth with their best warriors and reached lands far and wide. Their attempted invasion of Armorica was repelled by the Goths, and so they finally found refuge in Hispania. The local lords were weak, and the invasion saw little in the way of obstruction.

They established many petty kingdoms and a few duchies, and were more than able to defend themselves from the weak remnants of the WRE in the south.

In time, they developed an unique culture, calling themselves the "Brythons" after the Latin name for them. They ruled over a mostly Hispano-Roman populace, but many areas of the north were largely depopulated, and the Brythons made up the majority in these areas, their Celtic tongue becoming the lingua franca.

Perhaps in time, a strong ruler will appear and unite all the disparate Brythonic realms, and establish the Kingdom of Brythonia.

The Brythons mostly picked up Arian Christianity from from the Goths, but many bought with them the worship of the old gods. Some druids remain in Asturia, although their religion is not the majority one.

The rest of the WRE, shattered by the Brythonic invasions and shattering apart at the centre, fell apart into smaller kingdoms under fledgling dynasties.

PLAN
Spread of Brythonic culture

Area under direct Brythonic rule


TL;DR : Celts in northern Spain.

Merdifex posted:

Invasion of the Britons

Very similar to:

With the exception that the entire north of Hispania, including Asturias and large swathes of Tarraconensis, was invaded and settled by Britons from, well, Britain.

Fleeing Romano-British oppression in their own lands, they sailed forth with their best warriors and reached lands far and wide. Their attempted invasion of Armorica was repelled by the Goths, and so they finally found refuge in Hispania. The local lords were weak, and the invasion saw little in the way of obstruction.

They established many petty kingdoms and a few duchies, and were more than able to defend themselves from the weak remnants of the WRE in the south.

In time, they developed an unique culture, calling themselves the "Brythons" after the Latin name for them. They ruled over a mostly Hispano-Roman populace, but many areas of the north were largely depopulated, and the Brythons made up the majority in these areas, their Celtic tongue becoming the lingua franca.

Perhaps in time, a strong ruler will appear and unite all the disparate Brythonic realms, and establish the Kingdom of Brythonia.

The Brythons mostly picked up Arian Christianity from from the Goths, but many bought with them the worship of the old gods. Some druids remain in Asturia, although their religion is not the majority one.

The rest of the WRE, shattered by the Brythonic invasions and shattering apart at the centre, fell apart into smaller kingdoms under fledgling dynasties.

PLAN
Spread of Brythonic culture

Area under direct Brythonic rule


TL;DR : Celts in northern Spain.

TTBF posted:

Although I do like the Brythons idea.

Griffen posted:

Also, even though the WRE used Sardinia as a capital during the collapse, I have severe doubts they would keep such an isolated capital so close their rivals/enemies. I feel once things were consolidated in Iberia they would have relocated their capital to their heartlands in southern Iberia, and perhaps even expanded into North Africa to retake Septem (Ceuta) and some other coastal regions. Considering their early reliance on naval power to stay alive and connect all their far flung territory in the western Med, it would make more sense to me if they expanded along coastline rather than driving to deeply into central Iberia. This way they could more easily maintain communications, restore trade, and use their reduced military capabilities to their maximum through rapid and concentrated deployment through naval power. This would play in well with allowing a Celtic presence in the north. One possible capital could be Carteria at the bay of Gibraltar, which in our timeline was sacked by the Visigoths, but in this it would have gone relatively untouched. So you could call them the Carterian Empire, which still has a bit of a ring to it.

Fluffy Tail posted:

So the 'True' Roman Empire would become Neo-Carthage?

Hiveminded posted:

zephyr42 posted:

I was gonna say Orange but that has no chance of winning now. I'll also say that the idea of Celtic Spain is a really interesting one to me and maybe doing something a bit more with Basques?

oystertoadfish posted:

i'd rather not try to duplicate the 18th-century art history convention that somehow morphed into history* where we call the eastern romans byzantines. these western romans, i think, should just be called the hispanic empire - and even in this timeline i doubt there'll be a single city in europe with the resonance of byzantium/constantinople/istanbul, much less in this southern hispanic rump western empire. but that's all window dressing

Griffen posted:

edit: Wait, if you mean Neo-Carthage in terms of strategic methodology and map appearance, yeah that is a good comparison.

Rejected Fate posted:

A sort of-ish indication of naval supremacy could be, if they have an island capital, good fortifications on it. Not a very good implication but it might be nice.

"[img posted:

http://lpix.org/2083514/onionface5.png[/img]"]The Eastern Mediterranean was in a tenuous state following the fifth-century collapse of the Roman Empire. In the south, Axum had seized Egypt, and had then stretched itself even further to grab Jerusalem. To the north, the Sassanids had conquered a path to the gates of Constantinople, and now had an unconsolidated swathe of lands in Anatolia controlled partially by themselves and partially by their ambitious, bickering satraps. Although the respective cores of these empires were stable, they had both overreached, and now had shaky control over lands that were difficult to reach from their capitals. These lands were ripe for local unrest and conquest anew, and following the Prophet's death, that's exactly was Islam did. By the eighth century, Islam controlled much of the Eastern Mediterranean, from Anatolia to Egypt, but had not managed to crack Zoroastrian Persia or Christian Axum proper.

"[img posted:

http://lpix.org/2083513/onionface4.png[/img]"]Sassanid overreach had stretched the resources of Persia to the limit, and people everywhere throughout the empire- not just in the frontier provinces, but even in the Persian heartland- groaned under incessant Sassanid demands for taxes and soldiers. Among such a restless people, Islam found a receptive audience, and the religion expanded rapidly among the Sassanid general populace and lower nobility. Attempts by the central government to limit the spread of Islam merely inflamed passions, and soon the empire erupted in full-scale rebellion and civil war. The end result was an Islamic Persian Empire which, due to its wealth and power compared to Arabia, quickly became the new center of power and influence for Islam.

"[img posted:

http://lpix.org/2083510/onionface1.png[/img]"]Islam truly is the light! Its reach extended everywhere in the early Middle Ages-- Islam reigned supreme from the core lands of the Eastern Roman Empire down to Egypt, and west all the way to Tangiers. Not even the stable Romano-Moorish Kingdom of Africa was able to stop Islam's advance. الحمد لله, the House of Islam is a large one.

"[img posted:

http://lpix.org/2083515/onionface6.png[/img]"]With the death of the Prophet, Islam lost its driving force and failed to build upon previous conquests with any great success. The Muslim world was limited to the Arabian Peninsula, and expanded no further.

"[img posted:

http://lpix.org/2083516/onionface7.png[/img]"]I HAVE A GREAT IDEA WHICH INVOLVES CLEVER THINGS WITH ISLAM

Dr. Tough posted:

Familiar, yet different.