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Well sure, can you imagine how much of a power level upgrade that is?
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Aug 29, 2015 16:02
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The move Piccolo uses is indeed the Light Grenade, he calls out "Gekiretsu Koudan!", the original name of the move. Why he has it now when he shouldn't create that move until years after this fight (hell, years after this game even ends), I have no idea, I guess they needed to give Piccolo something more and it'd be boring to go with a generic mouth blast (despite that being something Piccolo very much could do at the time) Also the idea of Goku becoming Kami makes no sense whatsoever after we learn of what Namekians are (Goku couldn't create the Dragon Balls no matter what). Retcons! That said, he DID become a God, so maybe Kami did have a point after all. In that, because Piccolo being stronger than the Gods is an absolutely hilarious statement. He's more effective than some Gods (because Supreme Kai is the worst), but he's far below the level of...say, Beerus.
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Aug 29, 2015 17:09
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Blaze Dragon posted:The move Piccolo uses is indeed the Light Grenade, he calls out "Gekiretsu Koudan!", the original name of the move. Why he has it now when he shouldn't create that move until years after this fight (hell, years after this game even ends), I have no idea, I guess they needed to give Piccolo something more and it'd be boring to go with a generic mouth blast (despite that being something Piccolo very much could do at the time) Kami as in the God protector of Earth. Remember that Kami wasn't the first God of Earth, he got the job from someone else who wasn't Namekian. The Dragon Balls were one of his ways to... provide for the planet.
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Aug 29, 2015 17:30
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BattleCattle posted:He Now it looks good.
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Aug 29, 2015 22:02
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Onmi posted:Kami as in the God protector of Earth. Remember that Kami wasn't the first God of Earth, he got the job from someone else who wasn't Namekian. The Dragon Balls were one of his ways to... provide for the planet. The implication during the Namek arc in Z is that creating Dragon Balls is indeed a Namekian thing, so I can see where there'd be confusion. Retcons!
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Aug 31, 2015 01:06
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CmdrKing posted:The implication during the Namek arc in Z is that creating Dragon Balls is indeed a Namekian thing, so I can see where there'd be confusion. Retcons! Even more than that, it's implied that only certain Namekians can make the balls. Kami could, Piccolo can't, Dende can.
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Aug 31, 2015 01:09
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Don't forget Super Kami Guru.
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Aug 31, 2015 01:18
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To be fair, nothing indicates that making Dragon Balls was a requirement of being Kami/Guardian/etc. The selection process doesn't seem to be all that clear, except that you can't be full of evil.
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Aug 31, 2015 01:18
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Right, the implication is that Kami became the Guardian/God/whatever and decided to use his Namekian magic to make these wish balls and spread them around the planet. Once the Z Fighters assembled, being able to come back to life was great, which is why they had Dende take over as Guardian/etc to make new balls.
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Aug 31, 2015 01:31
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Some Numbers posted:Even more than that, it's implied that only certain Namekians can make the balls. Kami could, Piccolo can't, Dende can. Pretty much everything made after 1995 or after the Cell Saga, have been full of retcons and nonsense. The whole Trillion PL thing was started a decade ago around the time some Japan-only scouter game was created. That was how you got Freezer having 120 million, who would have blown everyone away.
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Aug 31, 2015 04:23
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Scalding Coffee posted:That still leaves the Dark Star Dragon balls, but Dende made even stronger Dragonballs than Kami. That Implies that the Dark Star Dragon Balls are canon.
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Aug 31, 2015 04:31
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What if you used the dark star dragon balls to wish that they were canon
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Aug 31, 2015 04:34
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Scalding Coffee posted:That still leaves the Dark Star Dragon balls, but Dende made even stronger Dragonballs than Kami. The first rule of DBZ Club is: We do not talk about GT The second rule of DBZ Club is: We DO NOT talk about GT.
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Aug 31, 2015 04:34
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Some Numbers posted:The first rule of DBZ Club is: We do not talk about GT Well, of course not. You talk about GT in DBGT club.
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Aug 31, 2015 04:43
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We'll have to wait for the Super Dragon Balls.
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Aug 31, 2015 04:50
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Waffleman_ posted:We'll have to wait for the Super Dragon Balls. You mean the Super Kami Dragon Balls.
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Aug 31, 2015 05:06
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They're actually just Super Balls They're so hard to find because they keep bouncing away
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Aug 31, 2015 05:22
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Thyself D. Mad posted:That Implies that the Dark Star Dragon Balls are canon. Everything is currently canon. 
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Aug 31, 2015 05:41
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Mr. Soop posted:Everything is currently canon. Toryama HIMSELF, explicitly states, that GT IS NOT loving CANNON.
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Aug 31, 2015 05:51
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Mr. Soop posted:Everything is currently canon. Battle of Gods and Resurrection F, both of which are written by Toriyama himself, preclude GT from being canon. Also, there's a new Dragon Ball series airing RIGHT NOW that's partially written by Toriyama and takes place after the end of DBZ. The chances of the events of GT happening again are pretty slim.
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Aug 31, 2015 05:56
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I'm pretty sure Xenoverse means that all versions of Dragon Ball are canon simultaneously, including bootlegs and Dragon Ball AF.
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Aug 31, 2015 06:03
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Kemix posted:Toryama HIMSELF, explicitly states, that GT IS NOT loving CANNON. Might not be cannon ...but it's canon.
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Aug 31, 2015 06:04
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Daizenshuu 7 (the Dragon Ball Bible) and GT Perfect Files both state that GT is in fact canon. However it has yet to be officially superseded by DBS, which will more than likely happen. Until then though, it's still canon. As recently as 2005, Toriyama himself described it as "a grand side story of the original Dragon Ball" and it continues to currently exist on all official timelines. I'm not arguing that GT is good by any means, just that with the way the timeline currently works that everything is canon.
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Aug 31, 2015 06:05
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There is exactly one thing I'm okay with when it comes to GT and canon. ...Those ending credit rolls. Some of those were pretty nice.
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Aug 31, 2015 06:20
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GT happened in some timeline where Beerus didn't go to Earth or got his pudding or something. GT is barely as canon as one-armed Gohan.
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Aug 31, 2015 06:34
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Some Numbers posted:GT happened in some timeline where Beerus didn't go to Earth or got his pudding or something. This is more than likely what will happen. Too much is going to happen in the third saga of Super to allow for GT to exist, although Beerus and Whis existing has done that already, really. The reason why Dragon Ball canon doesn't make sense is for a number of reasons, first and foremost that Toriyama doesn't plan ahead when writing anything, instead writing a chapter at a time. The second is because having a wider story from anime filler lets them cherry pick things they may wish to use later. A good example is in the Buu Saga. Buu heals a blind kid named Tommy, a strictly anime filler, minor plotline. However in Dragon Ball Online, a game which Toriyama had a great hand in, his existence dictates how the Majin race came to be on good terms with the people of Earth; Tommy grew up, started an amusement park, and hired all the Majin offspring as his employees. (How there's a Majin race is entirely another story. Before you ask though, they aren't immortal and age the same as humans because Toriyama.) And of course, the "real" reason above all else is probably because of merchandising. 
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Aug 31, 2015 06:58
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The first Bardock special was an anime creation, but Toriyama liked it and integrated it into his story, which is why it's part of Kai. And then Jaco retcons it out again.
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Aug 31, 2015 07:13
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Some Numbers posted:The first Bardock special was an anime creation, but Toriyama liked it and integrated it into his story, which is why it's part of Kai. Eh...to be fair, I think it was the CHARACTER that Toriyama really liked, enough so that he integrated HIM into the canon, rather than his entire movie (though I believe he did say that he liked the movie as well). Wasn't that the case?
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Aug 31, 2015 07:28
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Do we maybe want to move the in depth DBZ canon chat out of the LP and into the actual DBZ discussion thread?
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Aug 31, 2015 07:39
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Some Numbers posted:Do we maybe want to move the in depth DBZ canon chat out of the LP and into the actual DBZ discussion thread? I'm okay with it. There's not much else to chat about at the moment, anywho. Expect an update...Maybe tomorrow? Probably not, though. Day after, definitely, though.
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Aug 31, 2015 09:24
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So can someone explain to me why are they suddenly making a new DB series when there was such a huge gap after GT? EDIT: other than the always acceptable and obvious "for the $$$" reason
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Aug 31, 2015 10:59
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Combination of Xenoverse, Battle of Gods and Resurrection F doing well, and/or sparking Toriyama's interest again. As to what sparked these? That I don't know exactly. Xenoverse is/was effectively a rescuing or salvaging of certain things from Dragonball Online, an MMO that never saw international release. Bloodly fucked around with this message at 11:26 on Aug 31, 2015 |
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Aug 31, 2015 11:16
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Rumor has it, the complete shitstorm that was Dragon Ball Evolution made Akira Toryiama get up from his throne of money and see what everyone has been doing with his beloved franchise, which is about where he got involved with Dragon Ball Online, and jumped in to rewrite BoG so it didn't suck. So now there's the Freiza movie and Online lead to Xenoverse and Toryiama wrote Jaco the Galactic Patrolman and some of the DBZ abridged guys work for FUNimation now and I guess we're in the second Dragon Ball renaissance or something. (That was, again, rumor but Akira Toryiama is openly negative about Evolution, which you apparently don't get much in Japan. Also, the timeline fits and I am entertained by the idea that he thought Evolution was so bad that he'd revive Dragon Ball out of spite.)
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Aug 31, 2015 14:31
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YggiDee posted:Rumor has it, the complete shitstorm that was Dragon Ball Evolution made Akira Toryiama get up from his throne of money and see what everyone has been doing with his beloved franchise, which is about where he got involved with Dragon Ball Online, and jumped in to rewrite BoG so it didn't suck. So now there's the Freiza movie and Online lead to Xenoverse and Toryiama wrote Jaco the Galactic Patrolman and some of the DBZ abridged guys work for FUNimation now and I guess we're in the second Dragon Ball renaissance or something. Should be pointed out that before Toriyama got involved, Battle of Gods was about the evil 'Virus' who was the reason Saiyans were 'evil' and Super Saiyan God was big, bulky and contained a cape. In short it took itself entirely too seriously, tried to explain away the Saiyans being fight happy retards with "Oh it was just an evil virus" and completely missed the point. It's not just that Battle of Gods is a good film, but it's so great when you realize we were going to get another skippable dreck movie.
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Aug 31, 2015 14:51
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Scalding Coffee posted:Pretty much everything made after 1995 or after the Cell Saga, have been full of retcons and nonsense. My thoughts exactly. A part of me still kind of wishes Cell Saga was the last saga. Then another part of me wishes Frieza Saga was the last one (despite liking Cell Saga). And then a final part of me wishes Dragon Ball ended back with Goku beating Piccolo at the end of the 23rd World Martial Arts Tournament. But eh, that's just me and I'm kind of dumb. Onmi posted:Should be pointed out that before Toriyama got involved, Battle of Gods was about the evil 'Virus' who was the reason Saiyans were 'evil' and Super Saiyan God was big, bulky and contained a cape. In short it took itself entirely too seriously, tried to explain away the Saiyans being fight happy retards with "Oh it was just an evil virus" and completely missed the point. It's not just that Battle of Gods is a good film, but it's so great when you realize we were going to get another skippable dreck movie.  That's... That's...  Oh God, who came up with that idea?! Seriously.
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Aug 31, 2015 16:13
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Fionordequester posted:Eh...to be fair, I think it was the CHARACTER that Toriyama really liked, enough so that he integrated HIM into the canon, rather than his entire movie (though I believe he did say that he liked the movie as well). Wasn't that the case? Well, I did some research and it turns out that you're right. The Bardock movie came out a year before Goku met Freeza, so I guess Toriyama just liked the animation team's idea and ran with it.
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Aug 31, 2015 16:33
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ParanoidLogician posted:My thoughts exactly. A part of me still kind of wishes Cell Saga was the last saga. Then another part of me wishes Frieza Saga was the last one (despite liking Cell Saga). And then a final part of me wishes Dragon Ball ended back with Goku beating Piccolo at the end of the 23rd World Martial Arts Tournament. But eh, that's just me and I'm kind of dumb. quote:The scriptwriter Yūsuke Watanabe originally thought of the main antagonist Beerus as a very bad guy who infects people with evil and who was the one who made the Saiyan race ruthless. There's a number of other factoids, the movie went grossly over its run time in storyboarding so stuff for the other earthlings to do was cut out. quote:In the end, the scenario was expanded too much and, at the story boarding phase, the staff had already gone very much over the intended length, so they cut down quite a bit as a result; notably the Z Fighters' larger role in the fights. Among the cut scenes, there is one scene written by Akira Toriyama where Goku is in a pinch and everyone goes to help him, even though they know it is hopeless. It goes on so that in the end, even Mr. Satan tries to help. In the original story, for fun, he made Satan say lots of things like "I have a stomachache, so I’ll protect everyone from here!" What I personally like about Battle of Gods is that it reinforces one of the oldest lessons in the manga, the one that shaped the way it would go quite a bit. That was "There is always going to be someone better than you." So for those who never watched the original Dragon Ball, Roshi didn't want his pupils to grow arrogant or lazy, so he expressly told them that he wasn't sending them to the 21st World Martial Arts tournament to win, only to participate and have something to strive for. Now, originally, Goku was just going to win, but because people kept coming up to Toriyama and basically saying "So Goku is winning right" he thought "Wow, wouldn't it be a good twist if Goku didn't win?" Regardless, Roshi participated under the alias of Jackie Chun and defeated Goku in the final battle, in the next tournament however he would face Tien in the semi-finals, realizing that Tien was in fact stronger than him, he forfeit, breaking Tien's haughty spirit (As he did not allow Tien to beat him through power, and Tien knew that Roshi hadn't been going full force.) and essentially setting him on the path to take his place, being the martial artist who would remind all other Martial Artists, "There is always someone better." So after all of the battles, tournaments, space emperors and magic genies, Goku comes face to face with Beerus. And he loses. Twice. The second time after attaining a major power up, which Beerus treats more like he's training Goku in the ways of having such God-Like power rather than actively trying to kill him. As strong as Goku got, there was still someone better, and this spurned him on because he realized there was so much more out there that he hadn't experienced. BoGs lesson was that even after everything, there's still someone better, at the very end of the movie, after all the rampage and destruction Beerus has caused, Whis takes him out with a single chop, so even Beerus has someone stronger than he was. Onmi fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Aug 31, 2015 |
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Aug 31, 2015 16:44
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quote:In the end, the scenario was expanded too much and, at the story boarding phase, the staff had already gone very much over the intended length, so they cut down quite a bit as a result; notably the Z Fighters' larger role in the fights. Among the cut scenes, there is one scene written by Akira Toriyama where Goku is in a pinch and everyone goes to help him, even though they know it is hopeless. I'm honestly sorry to hear that we didn't get that.
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Aug 31, 2015 16:46
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Onmi posted:Regardless, Roshi participated under the alias of Jackie Chun and defeated Goku in the final battle, in the next tournament however he would face Tien in the semi-finals, realizing that Tien was in fact stronger than him, he forfeit, breaking Tien's haughty spirit (As he did not allow Tien to beat him through power, and Tien knew that Roshi hadn't been going full force.) and essentially setting him on the path to take his place, being the martial artist who would remind all other Martial Artists, "There is always someone better." Not quite true. That was Tien's first guess when Roshi explained to him why he was participating as Jackie Chun in the first place, but then Roshi gave his real reason to forfeit: fighting Tien he realized he had been underestimating the new generation of fighters and that Goku and Krillin (or Tien) wouldn't grow arrogant nor stop training even if they won, it was a gesture of trust.
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Aug 31, 2015 19:43
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Keeshhound posted:I'm honestly sorry to hear that we didn't get that. Seriously, some of the best moments in the series are characters who are seriously outclassed, just doing what they can to hold the line and buy time for everyone else. The scene mentioned earlier with Tien repeatedly flattening Cell is such a great example. He knows he's never going to be able to keep it up for long, but he does it to give the others time to complete their training in the Parsimonious Mushroom Trailer. Sure, Goku comes in and teleports his carcass away, but that's never the bit anyone remembers.
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Aug 31, 2015 21:21
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