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BottleKnight posted:I can definitely see Grandi scum. Would vote. 
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Sep 16, 2015 23:16
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I'm going to go read the way that Kash pushed on me last game on D1. There are some familiar elements, but I think he was a lot more tentative there, like he knew he could be wrong. In the meantime: ##unvote ##vote BottleKnight
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Sep 16, 2015 23:18
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ljtrigirl posted:I'm going to go read the way that Kash pushed on me last game on D1. There are some familiar elements, but I think he was a lot more tentative there, like he knew he could be wrong. Last time I was hesitant on being all in on scum I ended up getting myself lynched and letting that scum live longer. I learned my lesson.
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Sep 16, 2015 23:20
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Kashuno posted:Last time I was hesitant on being all in on scum I ended up getting myself lynched and letting that scum live longer. I learned my lesson. Yeah. I think there are a lot of similar elements to last time. You were kind of that sure about me being town after a bit. idk. Are you good at being scum?
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Sep 16, 2015 23:22
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I'd probably lean towards both gsksdfns and Kashuno being town at this point, just because of Kash's tonal consistency with what I've seen from him as town and Garoshi's response feeling very "HOW DARE YOU BE SO WRONG". I think BottleKnight's encouraging Kash was the scummiest thing in that exchange.
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Sep 16, 2015 23:24
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Grandicap posted:I disagree. But I also think I've made my point about it. Maybe I apply more weight to the word than others and am ok with that. I also realize by defending it, it is making me seem scummier so I am going to drop it and move on. Also acknowledging this is making me seem scummier so whatever. I don't really know what to make of this. You've been self-conscious this whole time, but now you're like sinking into it. So you do think Kashuno is still scum? And mostly due to him mischaracterizing a lazy post as a case? I don't really know where you stand, because you're making your points a sinking ship.
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Sep 16, 2015 23:26
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ljtrigirl posted:I'm going to go read the way that Kash pushed on me last game on D1. There are some familiar elements, but I think he was a lot more tentative there, like he knew he could be wrong. ljtrigirl posted:I'd probably lean towards both gsksdfns and Kashuno being town at this point, just because of Kash's tonal consistency with what I've seen from him as town and Garoshi's response feeling very "HOW DARE YOU BE SO WRONG". My willingness to vote for Grandi has nothing to do with 'encouraging Kash.' I have been interacting with Grandi and his OMGUS on Kash had little substance with a lot of words. It seems fake, and now like he's just trying to slither out of his opinions. Actually, on that basis, ##vote Grandi
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Sep 16, 2015 23:28
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make non-meta reads!
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Sep 16, 2015 23:40
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ljtrigirl posted:How is that a scumpost? Actually, how do you not immediately see how the Grandi post is scummy?
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Sep 16, 2015 23:40
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Grandicap posted:No he isn't. A case should be designed not to justify your vote, but to get others to vote with you. What I posted was not a case, it was an opinion piece and a weak one. Are you saying you voted for me, but had no interest in getting others to vote with you?
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Sep 16, 2015 23:43
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BottleKnight posted:I don't really know what to make of this. You've been self-conscious this whole time, but now you're like sinking into it. Yes, I still think Kash is scum. The sideline this is a scum post bullshit (with sirens) and the mischaracterization of what I did are things that make me think I am scum. I went down a rabbit hole on semantics wherein the value I appropriated to the word is not a thing others do apparently so I am no longer arguing that point. But Kash is still scum.
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Sep 17, 2015 01:07
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Pinterest Mom posted:Are you saying you voted for me, but had no interest in getting others to vote with you? Kind of. I didn't really like what you were doing, but not vehemently so. It was something to throw me into the game because I had been reading but not posting prior to that. Now I am posting so it did its job. I've been way more disengaged than I like in my last several games so I am trying to just post to get back into it. I don't like my lurking, in general, and additionally Ecco sent me a personal invitation. I don't want to let her down. I seem like I am being more self aware because I am being more self aware. I don't like what my game has become, and I don't have as much fun playing when I am disengaged and not posting, so I am actively trying to not do that this game.
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Sep 17, 2015 01:11
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Grandicap posted:Yes, I still think Kash is scum. The sideline this is a scum post bullshit (with sirens) and the mischaracterization of what I did are things that make me think I am scum. I went down a rabbit hole on semantics wherein the value I appropriated to the word is not a thing others do apparently so I am no longer arguing that point. But Kash is still scum. How did I mischaracterize what you did?
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Sep 17, 2015 01:29
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Kashuno posted:Grandi made a horrible case, then backtracked on it when people started calling him out and basically said "yeah I did make a bad case heheh." It's lovely and his posting around it hasn't been good. In relation to Grandicap posted:Too hardcore on it PM. and Grandicap posted:Mostly because even I think my vote was weak and the reasoning is sketchy. It was a good jumping in point for me because I hadn't posted except a confirmation post. Calling that first post a horrible case is a stretch for a 1 liner on day 1. Calling it backtracking on the second post is stretching it because there isn't much to backtrack on because the first post is weak as poo poo. You set it up like I made a strong case that I believed in and then abandoned it at the first sign of pressure. I made a throwaway vote in my first post of the game, and then abandoned it because it served its purpose. That is a mischaracterization.
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Sep 17, 2015 01:36
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First since we are clearly out of joke phase, I'll start with ##unvote I would like to see some actual opinions from TNL, merk and SSV. For all the poo poo Grandicap is getting for a "low content scum post", we are letting those other three fly under the radar without providing any sort of content and all of them have a couple of little snipes/poo poo stirring posts in the middle of this whole Grandicap debacle. Also, ANarc has barely said a word and I'd like some opinions from her as well. So any of you four, aside from Kash/Grandicap, who else do you think might be scum? Asiina isn't much better and while I don't agree with her Kash vote right now, at least it has a valid reason behind it, so I lean town for her right now but I'd still like to see more opinions. I'm not sure what to make of Kashuno right now. I just saw him pull this act in another game and be right, but it felt weird there and it still feels weird here. While I do think his reactions are more likely from town Kash, I'm not sure if his conclusion is right this time on Grandicap. As for Grandicap, I'm just not seeing whatever else is seeing. However, since we are in agreement about some things, that might be clouding the issue and I could very well be wrong. I would vote him to avoid a no lynch over Kash, but I don't think either Kash or Grandicap is the right vote today. I'm still suspicious of both PMom and PoP. I will say that I almost always find PMom scummy at the start of a game, even when he turns up town, so I constantly have to fight against that in order to be objective. I will say that between the two, I think PoP would be more likely to be scum right now. Unless something drastic changes my mind, I would vote for either of them but PoP first. Right now though, LJ and Uhh are pinging me the hardest. I don't like uhhs reaction to the whole Madman's Law thing. I thought I made it clear that it was pretty much a joke and it's never actually been tested in a game, so I feel it should have just been ignored but instead it draws this reaction: a worthy uhh posted:This is beyond stupid, in a real life non-game sense, statistically and logically. Plus he stated I made a good scum slip catch on Kash and has started attacking him. So uhh, if you really think that is a scum slip, do you think I am still scum and busing a teammate? Then he calls out BK for making a scum post in the very same style as Kash did on Grandi. I would definitely be willing to vote for him today. However, what I really don't like is LJ coming in with a strange series of posts. I know it's kind of her style, but I don't really like the whiplash feeling it gives me. She starts out by saying he vote on Kash is real, but then immediately moves it BK using the same post that uhh quoted: BottleKnight posted:I can definitely see Grandi scum. Would vote. I see nothing wrong with that post. He clearly states his opinion and a willingness to vote. Just because he doesn't add his vote, doesn't automatically make him scum. Sure, if it came down to the wire and BK ended up not voting Grandi, then you could hold his feet to the fire. But without that it really just feels like a push to get BK to vote badly. Especially since LJ has already called Grandi town. So LJ, if you think Grandi is town, shouldn't you be trying to talk people out of voting for him? Her vote on BK also feels like she looked at the vote list and wanted to make sure that there were lots of viable candidates for a lynch, but didn't realize that my vote was still a joke vote, especially since she the only thing she has said about BK to that point is a thumbsdown at the post quoted above. I do not like it, so I'm going to ##vote ljtrigirl
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Sep 17, 2015 01:55
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BottleKnight posted:My willingness to vote for Grandi has nothing to do with 'encouraging Kash.' I have been interacting with Grandi and his OMGUS on Kash had little substance with a lot of words. It seems fake, and now like he's just trying to slither out of his opinions. I just completely disagree with the comment about a lack of substance in his Kash case. Like, I think he's wrong, but I think the points he picked up weren't "scum trying to push a mislynch" points. They were genuine.
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Sep 17, 2015 02:18
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Pinterest Mom posted:Actually, how do you not immediately see how the Grandi post is scummy? Because I say poo poo like that all the time. Like, especially if he's trying to figure out how to get into the game. I'm pretty sure I did almost that exact same thing my first game, and several of you guys tried to lynch me for it.
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Sep 17, 2015 02:19
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Kashuno posted:How did I mischaracterize what you did? Dude. You should read his posts. Can we please move on?
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Sep 17, 2015 02:20
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I tried to find a gif of someone cracking their knuckles before typing to post in preparation of ripping apart TMM's post, but I couldn't. So, pretend that these two are consecutive. 
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Sep 17, 2015 02:23
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ljtrigirl posted:I just completely disagree with the comment about a lack of substance in his Kash case. Like, I think he's wrong, but I think the points he picked up weren't "scum trying to push a mislynch" points. They were genuine. That's fair. My read of his tone has been that it's fake but it doesn't really make sense for scum to come out of the gate and post that kind of rebuttal. It's one of those scenarios where the micro reads poorly but the macro reads town, I hadn't thought of that. ##unvote
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Sep 17, 2015 02:31
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TMMadman posted:First since we are clearly out of joke phase, I'll start with ##unvote oh my god do you do this every game, why would anyone want to read all of this
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Sep 17, 2015 02:32
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TMMadman posted:First since we are clearly out of joke phase, I'll start with ##unvote Dude, seriously? A paragraph calling out UTRs on D0.5? TMMadman posted:I'm not sure what to make of Kashuno right now. I just saw him pull this act in another game and be right, but it felt weird there and it still feels weird here. While I do think his reactions are more likely from town Kash, I'm not sure if his conclusion is right this time on Grandicap. This is like "I think Kash is scum no wait I don't." It does not at all feel like a genuine read on Kash. It feels like you're forcing content because you feel like you need to. TMMadman posted:As for Grandicap, I'm just not seeing whatever else is seeing. However, since we are in agreement about some things, that might be clouding the issue and I could very well be wrong. I would vote him to avoid a no lynch over Kash, but I don't think either Kash or Grandicap is the right vote today. #noshit TMMadman posted:I'm still suspicious of both PMom and PoP. I will say that I almost always find PMom scummy at the start of a game, even when he turns up town, so I constantly have to fight against that in order to be objective. I will say that between the two, I think PoP would be more likely to be scum right now. Unless something drastic changes my mind, I would vote for either of them but PoP first. I kinda like this. TMMadman posted:Right now though, LJ and Uhh are pinging me the hardest. I don't like uhhs reaction to the whole Madman's Law thing. I thought I made it clear that it was pretty much a joke and it's never actually been tested in a game, so I feel it should have just been ignored but instead it draws this reaction: A) Don't say things you want ignored because people never ignore that poo poo. B) I know that it's a thing here where people ask about these ridiculous interactions D1, but I don't like it. Just because I'm leaning scum on someone doesn't mean I'll ignore them if they raise what I think is a good point. C) I don't get what you're trying to say with that last part. I feel like I'm defending Uhh a lot here. I don't really have a read on him. I just think your points are bad. TMMadman posted:However, what I really don't like is LJ coming in with a strange series of posts. I know it's kind of her style, but I don't really like the whiplash feeling it gives me. Dude. If you know it's my style, why are you a) trying to link it to alignment and b) trying to link it to evil when you've only seen me do it as good? TMMadman posted:She starts out by saying he vote on Kash is real, but then immediately moves it BK using the same post that uhh quoted: Dude. It's called timewarping. TMMadman posted:I see nothing wrong with that post. He clearly states his opinion and a willingness to vote. Just because he doesn't add his vote, doesn't automatically make him scum. Sure, if it came down to the wire and BK ended up not voting Grandi, then you could hold his feet to the fire. But without that it really just feels like a push to get BK to vote badly. I disagree. I think he saw a town on town conflict that was escalating and decided to encourage it to see how it would shake out before deciding whether or not to vote there. Posting things like "Yeah, I agree." can make town feel validated in their (wrong) opinions. I think it helped encourage Kash to tunnel further on what I believe is a bad case. TMMadman posted:Especially since LJ has already called Grandi town. So LJ, if you think Grandi is town, shouldn't you be trying to talk people out of voting for him? Her vote on BK also feels like she looked at the vote list and wanted to make sure that there were lots of viable candidates for a lynch, but didn't realize that my vote was still a joke vote, especially since she the only thing she has said about BK to that point is a thumbsdown at the post quoted above. A) I had no idea that you were voting BK. B) I voted him for the exact reason that I said. Out of everything related to Kash/Garoshi, his response was the only real scummy one to anything that happened. C) I don't understand the connection you are trying to make between me defending Garoshi and me voting BK. TMMadman posted:I do not like it, so I'm going to ##vote ljtrigirl I can't tell if I think you're scum after this or not. Leaning yes. You agree with my two main reads and say I'm playing my usual style but think I'm scum and try to vote me. It feels like you're forcing content. I don't know that that's scum!TMM play because your content didn't really seem forced last game. It felt a lot more natural. But the first half of this post felt like you felt obligated to comment on literally everything that was happening. I'm watching you. :goo:
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Sep 17, 2015 02:39
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BottleKnight posted:That's fair. My read of his tone has been that it's fake but it doesn't really make sense for scum to come out of the gate and post that kind of rebuttal. It's one of those scenarios where the micro reads poorly but the macro reads town, I hadn't thought of that. 
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Sep 17, 2015 02:40
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How closely does good!TMM pay attention? Like, is he someone that picks up 90% of the details that happen?
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Sep 17, 2015 02:41
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It would really help if you, you know, interacted with my posts instead of posting stuff like this.
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Sep 17, 2015 02:55
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BottleKnight posted:It would really help if you, you know, interacted with my posts instead of posting stuff like this. Did you read what I said to TMM about you?
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Sep 17, 2015 03:09
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ljtrigirl posted:Did you read what I said to TMM about you? Yeah. And I already responded to you about it. It's a big stretch to say that with my saying where I would vote, you took that as me encouraging Kash. You didn't talk about any of my interactions with Grandi or why I might also think poorly of his posts, just that I was encouraging Kash? I think it's a weird narrative to begin with, but the fact that I was talking to Grandicap before that makes it extra-weird.
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Sep 17, 2015 03:19
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BottleKnight posted:Yeah. And I already responded to you about it. You mean by unvoting?
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Sep 17, 2015 03:23
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ljtrigirl posted:Dude. You should read his posts. Funny because I did read his posts about "mischaracterizing" and it was a bunch of semantics and inane bullshit that amounted to nothing.
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Sep 17, 2015 03:28
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ljtrigirl posted:You mean by unvoting? No. Your main point is that I encouraged Kashuno. I made a post about why that isn't true. You then responded with 'well I disagree that Grandi made a bad OMGUS.' That's fine, but it doesn't really respond to why I encouraged Kashuno. So when you say it again to TMM, I really don't understand. I, however, agreed with your other point, that he's probably not trying to push a narrative.
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Sep 17, 2015 03:28
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ljtrigirl posted:How closely does good!TMM pay attention? Like, is he someone that picks up 90% of the details that happen? If TMM is town you can expect him to pick a fight with someone that will completely engulf the thread and destroy any other content sometime before end of d2.
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Sep 17, 2015 03:30
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LJ why do you keep calling Grandi "Garoshi" is there some reference I don't know
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Sep 17, 2015 03:31
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BottleKnight posted:No. Your main point is that I encouraged Kashuno. I made a post about why that isn't true. You then responded with 'well I disagree that Grandi made a bad OMGUS.' That's fine, but it doesn't really respond to why I encouraged Kashuno. So when you say it again to TMM, I really don't understand. Oh. I disagree. All of your posts relating to him encouraged him, but you didn't actually vote there until I called you out on it.
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Sep 17, 2015 03:33
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Also anybody talking to me or about me that I didn't get to I'll do it tomorrow when I make a Lumpen List because I'm feeling that this game even though last time it got me almost lynched.
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Sep 17, 2015 03:33
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Kashuno posted:LJ why do you keep calling Grandi "Garoshi" is there some reference I don't know No. I played a game on Mafia Universe over the last two weeks, and there was a guy named Garoshi there. I'm really bad with names.
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Sep 17, 2015 03:34
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ljtrigirl posted:Oh. I disagree. All of your posts relating to him encouraged him, but you didn't actually vote there until I called you out on it. Well, all I can say then is that that isn't true.
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Sep 17, 2015 03:38
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BottleKnight posted:oh my god do you do this every game, why would anyone want to read all of this Are you serious? It's my current read on every person in the game. Isn't that what this game is about? I may be right or I may be wrong, but I am putting forth my opinions for everyone to judge. It shouldn't take more than two minutes to read that post. Moving on: ljtrigirl posted:Dude, seriously? A paragraph calling out UTRs on D0.5? Yes, I am absolutely calling out lurkers this early. Lurking has been a major problem in games lately and everyones wonders how to deal with the issue. The solution to dealing with lurkers is to call them out early and often and force them to provide content and if they don't, then vote them out early. So I'm going to continually call out lurkers early in the game, especially when several of those people were around enough to be skimming through the thread during a pretty big conversation, but couldn't be bothered to give any sort of actual opinion and instead just sniped at it. ljtrigirl posted:This is like "I think Kash is scum no wait I don't." It does not at all feel like a genuine read on Kash. It feels like you're forcing content because you feel like you need to. How are you reading that as"I think Kash is scum, no maybe I don't" when I am actually stating that I think Kash is town based on his reactions, but his conclusion that Grandi is scum is wrong. We've already established that being wrong does not equal being scum. Could he still be scum? Sure, it's possible, but I have more than enough doubt that I wouldn't vote him today. ljtrigirl posted:A) Don't say things you want ignored because people never ignore that poo poo. A) I didn't say I wanted it to be ignored, I said that it's something that should be ignored because it's basically a joke and the fact that uhh has responded to it in that manner does not sit right with me. B) What are you trying to say here? I've got no problem with uhh thinking I'm scum and not ignoring my question about a slip to Kash. What I'm asking is if uhh still believes that Kash made a slip and if he believes that I am scum busing Kash. It's trying to get him to clarify his position. C) I just don't like that he is using the same tactic that Kash used to start attacking Grandi in order to attack BK while pressuring Kash. It just doesn't sit well with me, but I guess it's more of a gut thing. How can you say my points about uhh are bad when you don't have a read on him? ljtrigirl posted:Dude. If you know it's my style, why are you a) trying to link it to alignment and b) trying to link it to evil when you've only seen me do it as good? Dude. I don't make any attempt to link your style to your alignment, I simply say it gives me a whiplash effect. It doesn't matter what it's called, I find the practice irritating because looks terrible and can be used to inflate a post count. I feel that if you have the time to make all those posts, then you have time to actually read the whole thread first and make an informed post instead of a series of rapidly shifting posts. ljtrigirl posted:I disagree. I think he saw a town on town conflict that was escalating and decided to encourage it to see how it would shake out before deciding whether or not to vote there. Posting things like "Yeah, I agree." can make town feel validated in their (wrong) opinions. I think it helped encourage Kash to tunnel further on what I believe is a bad case. So you think he was encouraging Kash even though he was only interacting with Grandi though the entire thing? Don't you think he would have directed at least a few questions at Kash if he really wanted to escalate that conflict? If anything, I feel like you should be coming down on BK for basically ignoring Kash during the whole debate, but instead you claim he was encouraging Kash. ljtrigirl posted:A) I had no idea that you were voting BK. A) So then you aren't reading the thread? My vote on BK and the very next post are basically what kicked this game out of jokephase. B) You didn't actually have a reason when you voted. You filled that in after the vote by saying he was encouraging Kash. C) I'm not trying to make a connection between you defending Grandi and you voting BK. I'm asking why you are encouraging BK to vote Grandi when you think Grandi is town. And finally: ljtrigirl posted:I can't tell if I think you're scum after this or not. Leaning yes. You agree with my two main reads and say I'm playing my usual style but think I'm scum and try to vote me. So if PMom and PoP are your two main reads, why are you voting for BK? Your style has nothing to do with your alignment, it's the content in that style that makes me think you're scum. Also, I didn't try to vote for you, I did vote for you.
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Sep 17, 2015 03:57
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TMMadman posted:I'm still suspicious of both PMom and PoP. I will say that I almost always find PMom scummy at the start of a game, even when he turns up town, so I constantly have to fight against that in order to be objective. I will say that between the two, I think PoP would be more likely to be scum right now. Unless something drastic changes my mind, I would vote for either of them but PoP first. Make the case for scum Pecota.
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Sep 17, 2015 04:01
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TMMadman posted:Yes, I am absolutely calling out lurkers this early. Lurking has been a major problem in games lately and everyones wonders how to deal with the issue. The solution to dealing with lurkers is to call them out early and often and force them to provide content and if they don't, then vote them out early. So I'm going to continually call out lurkers early in the game, especially when several of those people were around enough to be skimming through the thread during a pretty big conversation, but couldn't be bothered to give any sort of actual opinion and instead just sniped at it. This is you, in Pearl of Port Lourde, less than 24 hours after the game started, as scum: TMMadman posted:This is just a standard lurker poke: I like how you are trying to hamfist in extra reasons to do something you often do to fake content. ##vote TMM
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Sep 17, 2015 04:06
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BottleKnight posted:This is you, in Pearl of Port Lourde, less than 24 hours after the game started, as scum: That has to be the weakest reason ever to vote someone. Everyone has been talking about lurkers ruining games. The easiest way to stop that from happening to consistently call out lurkers, so that is what I am going to do. It is not indicative of my alignment and when I flip that will be proved true.
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Sep 17, 2015 04:10
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