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Sickening posted:I am not talking about just internal recruiters. Where the hell do you think the money comes from for external recruiters? I am using the term "employer" not in the sense of the recruiting company the recruiter works for but the business client he/she is recruiting for. Remember that the business of headhunters isn't reading over resumes, it's maintaining talent networks. You'll never get referral business if the people you're placing are unhappy.
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Sep 17, 2015 16:23
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Vulture Culture posted:Headhunters don't have a "the business client." That's the exact property that makes them not internal recruiters. They have a pretty big swath of business clients with a large spread of open positions, and their job is to play matchmaker for candidates and teams. Like others have mentioned, incentive models differ sometimes, but the firms almost always collect on a percentage of the employee's base salary on a 30/60/90-day cliff, and the individual recruiters typically get a cut of that. Assuming you're a quality candidate who they can place somewhere, and not the OS/390 or VMS specialist who's competing for this one open specialist job against a handful of other firms, there's virtually no incentive for them to pitch you at anything less than your worth. Sorry but that is a load of crap. Of course external recruiters have business clients. These recruiting companies need relationships with businesses to pass them job openings or send them requests for specialized talent searches. They rely on repeat business from these hiring companies even more so than the talent they are trying to recruit. There is definitely an invested interest in getting them talent at a discount when possible. No, I am not saying that they don't need to build relationships with talent, but don't ignore the other side of the coin.
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Sep 17, 2015 16:29
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Can you guys make your own thread to discuss recruiters? I'm pretty sure we're on page five of rehashing the same bullshit over and over.
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Sep 17, 2015 16:42
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mewse posted:I'm buying a dash cam because I was recently in an accident, nobody was hurt, both cars were written off, and the punk 17yo driver is disputing that it was his fault. The insurance company said it was his fault, and now he's taking me to court. I'm planning on getting a lawyer and trying to burn this guy, but hopefully a dash cam will help in the future. A friend of mine has installed a front and rear dashcam because 4-5 years ago he got into a REALLY bad accident with some idiot, like crushed vertibrae and problems for life kind of bad, it was said idiots fault. The police hosed up when they wrote up the report and after years of fighting now this piece of poo poo changed his story, and basically my buddy might get completely hosed and saddled with crippling medical debt, we're talking 200K+ if not more by now.
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Sep 17, 2015 16:51
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I'm about to go talk to my boss about my regularly scheduled raise, and a discussion I had with a friend a couple weeks ago made me also think about pushing for a new job title. I'm not really sure what to do about the title thing, so I'm curious what people here think. For some background, I work for a small software development company, mostly web applications in .NET, but we've been all over the place in the past. I've been working here nearly 10 years, and I have no intention of leaving barring something catastrophic like the company folding or something like that. When I started, my job was to take a specification and be a good little developer drone, making things work exactly as ordered with zero direct customer interaction. I've since expanded my skill set and responsibilities immensely, in that I'm often the only point of contact with a customer from inception of a project or fix to the eventual production deployment, with occasional checks by my boss to make sure I'm on the right track. I'm called upon to design stuff from the ground up, do R&D for new projects, and provide customer support for my production deployed software. All that on top of my primary responsibility of writing software. My pay has increased accordingly and regularly, so no problem there, however my title has never changed from the original generic "developer" title. Despite what my friend was telling me, I can't think of a good reason to ask for a change. My friend seemed to think it was an important thing to go for, since my responsibilities have expanded so should my job title, but to me it seems like it would be seen two possible ways - first, that I'm looking to pad my resume for a job hunt, as "senior executive super awesome software dude" will look a hell of a lot better than "generic developer #101231", and second, to have something fancy to brag about and stroke my ego a bit. The first one is definitely not the case and I don't even want to put that thought in my boss's head, and the second, I really don't need a fancy title to feel good about myself or my position, all I really care about is enjoying the work and getting paid for it. My gut says to just not even bother and just stick with the raise, unless there are other benefits to a title upgrade that I'm not seeing.
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Sep 17, 2015 16:59
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I'm not touching the salary thing anymore for a while beyond this. VC made a really good point in that my job is to maintain a talent network, and as I've said, to know what's going on in my market. Knowing who makes what and where helps EVERY candidate I touch. Being able to have that bird's eye view of the market and telling you where you stack up gives me perspective and allows us to have an open discussion about what you're asking for compared to what's reasonable. Bottom line: is it absolutely critical that you tell me your exact salary? No. So if you don't want to, don't. But if you play ball and help me, I'm certainly going to help you every way I can. If you're adversarial or I feel like you're hiding something, you're not going to get my full effort and market knowledge. Moving forward: GentlemansSleepover posted:My gut says to just not even bother and just stick with the raise, unless there are other benefits to a title upgrade that I'm not seeing. A title is a title is a title, but at least in my opinion, I'd bring it up. Are you thinking of going for the fancy "architect" title or just adding a "senior" in front of developer? If you're looking for the former and you're doing that kind of work, I feel like that's a straight forward conversation. You can even qualify it with "I'm with this ship til the end but..." It really should be a non-issue. As a recruiter, I don't know that I'd look at a developer's resume too differently if it didn't have "senior" or "architect" (because you all are in such high demand regardless), but it would be nice to see some progression in responsibility/duties. I can also tell by languages that you're using so there's a world of difference between the 10 yr dev doing ASP maintenance and the 10 yr guy that's playing with Angular, Knockout, whatever. In support roles, I'd almost insist you show me that, otherwise it looks like you've been dialing the same knobs forever. After 3 years in my role, I was re-ordering business cards and I casually asked my boss if I could add "senior" in front of my title. Without batting an eye, she said sure so I changed it. Nothing else was ever said of it, and she didn't think I was trying to run. I didn't get a raise, but I felt better for what that's worth. In short, I'd find a way to ask tactfully. Edit: vvvvv I don't. My conversations are very matter of fact and I'm fairly intuitive and market knowledgeable so it's usually obvious when someone is BSing me. vvvvv Dark Helmut fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Sep 17, 2015 |
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Sep 17, 2015 17:34
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Methanar fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Aug 6, 2016 |
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Sep 17, 2015 17:45
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Methanar posted:Does HR/recruitment assume that you are always inflating your salary when you give a number and operate under that assumption? Vulture Culture fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Sep 17, 2015 |
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Sep 17, 2015 18:59
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MF_James posted:A friend of mine has installed a front and rear dashcam because 4-5 years ago he got into a REALLY bad accident with some idiot, like crushed vertibrae and problems for life kind of bad, it was said idiots fault. The police hosed up when they wrote up the report and after years of fighting now this piece of poo poo changed his story, and basically my buddy might get completely hosed and saddled with crippling medical debt, we're talking 200K+ if not more by now. This happened to my parents. My dad couldn't work for years and had to have repeated back surgeries after an enlisted woman in the US Army with no insurance decided make-up time was more important than looking at the red light up ahead. They had to go through a bankruptcy and have been down financially since. They should be fine when they retire next year, but it literally screwed up most of their/our lives. I also use a dash cam. In the final stages of nailing down an offer, and although we haven't negotiated salary/options yet, they kind of initiated that process by asking for my w2/paystub. Since I'm not too concerned with a number at the moment, I'll see how it pans out, but is this a tactic anyone has run into?
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Sep 17, 2015 23:00
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joe944 posted:asking for my w2/paystub 
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Sep 17, 2015 23:05
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joe944 posted:In the final stages of nailing down an offer, and although we haven't negotiated salary/options yet, they kind of initiated that process by asking for my w2/paystub. Since I'm not too concerned with a number at the moment, I'll see how it pans out, but is this a tactic anyone has run into? I'm predicting you'll be given one of the following suggestions by forums posters (you might've missed the last several pages of salary disclosure talk): 1) Give them the paystub. 2) Refuse to give them the paystub. 3) Forge a paystub with a higher salary, and give them that. To answer your question - nope, never run into that before. Could be their way of really verifying employment, confirming your salary (if you've already disclosed it) or (most probable) learning it as a possible basis for salary negotiations. I don't think you'd be off-base in asking them why they need it, but it sounds like it doesn't bother you, so I wouldn't make a fuss about it just because. Ultimately what matters is the salary you're about to negotiate matching what you think you (and the position) are/is worth. Japanese Dating Sim fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Sep 17, 2015 |
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Sep 17, 2015 23:13
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I've never actually been asked for W2/paystub, but I have been told it would be requested by a couple of places. That just seems like a generally lovely thing to do in the hiring process so I wasn't too broken up about not going further.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:17
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Can someone tell me the Powershell command to view all currently-applied GPOs to your local machine? Someone mentioned it a few pages back (or maybe it was on one of the other threads) and I can't find it.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:19
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Japanese Dating Sim posted:Can someone tell me the Powershell command to view all currently-applied GPOs to your local machine? Someone mentioned it a few pages back (or maybe it was on one of the other threads) and I can't find it. gpresult /v
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Sep 17, 2015 23:23
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Methanar posted:gpresult /v Wow, I'm fairly embarrassed about not knowing that already. Too late in the day apparently.  I seem to remember whoever it was having something that piped it into a nice table but this works completely fine. Thanks!
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Sep 17, 2015 23:27
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gpresult /v | out-gridview gpresult /v | ConvertTo-HTML | Out-File gpreport.html
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Sep 17, 2015 23:30
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Methanar posted:gpresult /v By the by, that's not actually a PowerShell command. It's a default command-line executable that's been in place since at least Windows XP. It will work on pretty much any domain-joined system, regardless of powershell install status.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:37
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Japanese Dating Sim posted:I'm predicting you'll be given one of the following suggestions by forums posters (you might've missed the last several pages of salary disclosure talk): 4) Redact all salary information.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:52
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Methanar posted:gpresult /v | ConvertTo-HTML | Out-File gpreport.html gpresult /h gpreport.html
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Sep 18, 2015 00:06
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:4) Redact all salary information. What are the powershell commands for that?
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Sep 18, 2015 00:15
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KennyTheFish posted:What are the powershell commands for that? Use -Replace and then use regex.
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Sep 18, 2015 00:29
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:4) Redact all salary information. My wife was just recently asked for her w2 in an interview. This is what she did and she got the job. Not sure how useful a w2 is without any of the payroll info on it, but I assume it was to seem like they were doing their due diligence in confirming employment. Like hell I am handing over a w2 with my salary info on it.
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Sep 18, 2015 00:35
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I could maaaaybe see the W2 requirement for a sales job where you want to verify that a guy was actually an amazing salesman who was pulling in crazy commissions. Maybe.
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Sep 18, 2015 00:42
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I think a W2 is the same as a T4 in Canada, which you should absolutely never ever give a prospective employer or anyone other than Revenue Canada/whatever you have there. Here, it has info on it like your SIN which you're legally obligated to keep to yourself. If you're required to submit a loving tax document as a part of salary negotiation, tell them to go gently caress themselves and walk imo
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Sep 18, 2015 00:43
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I've already submitted mine un-redacted, time will tell if that was a mistake. There are a lot of factors still keeping me interested in the position, that, in my opinion, outweigh the negatives so far. When I mentioned this to my contact at the company he offered that they might want to do extra verification because my years of experience to seniority/pay grade ratio is a bit whack. Besides the opportunity to learn and and get certified by a major openstack player, I'm just more than done at my current position. I'd rather not extrapolate too much on that at the moment, but let's just say that it would be a tragedy for me to not eventually share a few snippets from the current circus act I've found myself in. joe944 fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Sep 18, 2015 |
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Sep 18, 2015 01:14
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We don't want the underlings making too much now do we
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Sep 18, 2015 01:57
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CLAM DOWN posted:I think a W2 is the same as a T4 in Canada, which you should absolutely never ever give a prospective employer or anyone other than Revenue Canada/whatever you have there. Here, it has info on it like your SIN which you're legally obligated to keep to yourself. It's a good job at a good place. They're small and misguided. I think they probably just heard about someone else doing it and were like "oh us too!"
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Sep 18, 2015 02:14
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go3 posted:We don't want the underlings making too much now do we Yes we want to make sure their experience to seniority/pay grade does not get too, how do you say, out of whack.
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Sep 18, 2015 03:17
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Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:Yes we want to make sure their experience to seniority/pay grade does not get too, how do you say, out of whack. There are plenty of folks who work in IT who will complain about people who haven't been there as long as them making more than them. It's not just the management who wants to enforce this, unfortunately.
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Sep 18, 2015 03:29
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NippleFloss posted:There are plenty of folks who work in IT who will complain about people who haven't been there as long as them making more than them. It's not just the management who wants to enforce this, unfortunately.
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Sep 18, 2015 03:38
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NippleFloss posted:There are plenty of folks who work in IT who will complain about people who haven't been there as long as them making more than them. It's not just the management who wants to enforce this, unfortunately. Maybe they should grow some aspirations go get a better paying job and maybe they can also build a bridge and get over it while they're at it.
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Sep 18, 2015 03:45
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Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:Maybe they should grow some aspirations go get a better paying job and maybe they can also build a bridge and get over it while they're at it. That's perhaps the correct answer for an individual but a company can't say that to a worker who is asking why his peer makes more than him. That's part of the reason that companies try to prevent workers from discussing compensation with one another. It tends to lead to resentment and dysfunctional office dynamics. The worker friendly solution to this is to do what most Union shops do and have fixed public pay scales that are based, at least in part, on seniority.
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Sep 18, 2015 04:05
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NippleFloss posted:That's perhaps the correct answer for an individual but a company can't say that to a worker who is asking why his peer makes more than him. That's part of the reason that companies try to prevent workers from discussing compensation with one another. It tends to lead to resentment and dysfunctional office dynamics. Yeah because the guy who has been there for 20 years and can't do more than manage backups should get paid more than the 28 year old CCIE who generates extra revenue for the company. After about 5 years (oh hey, the standard vestment period for most 401ks and most hardware lifecycles), organizational knowledge loses its usefulness. If someone is moving up, that's fine, but having the same person stagnating in that role is detrimental to the organization's growth. e: I'm not saying companies should remove employees after this period, but seniority means absolutely dick in a skilled field that advances as quickly as IT. psydude fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Sep 18, 2015 |
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Sep 18, 2015 04:31
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NippleFloss posted:That's perhaps the correct answer for an individual but a company can't say that to a worker who is asking why his peer makes more than him. That's part of the reason that companies try to prevent workers from discussing compensation with one another. It tends to lead to resentment and dysfunctional office dynamics. Oh god, not union chat 
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Sep 18, 2015 04:39
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Danger Danger Pull UP Pull UP
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Sep 18, 2015 04:40
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RFC2324 posted:Oh god, not union chat The union wants to hire me but they're demanding a W2 and my previous salary, should I fix my aunt's computer?
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Sep 18, 2015 04:40
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Yeah wait we've had enough chat about divisive issues in the past few days. What are y'all drinking? I just bought a bottle of Glenmorangie Port Cask.
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Sep 18, 2015 04:42
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Sep 18, 2015 04:46
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psydude posted:e: I'm not saying companies should remove employees after this period, but seniority means absolutely dick in a skilled field that advances as quickly as IT. I don't really care to start an argument about unions, but I do think some of the same people who think it's anti-worker bullshit that a company would try to set a rate based on things like years in the field and seniority would also support unionization that would lead to exactly that. Not a,clue judgment either way, just an observation. That said, I do think the myth of the IT rockstar is overblown. Those people are out there, certainly, but half the people in IT seem to think that *they* are the rock star in their company and deserve to be treated as such.
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Sep 18, 2015 05:25
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psydude posted:Yeah wait we've had enough chat about divisive issues in the past few days. Sadly, I am on a Miller lite kick. Mostly because moving has left me broke and I still have to pay off my friends who have helped with stuff.
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Sep 18, 2015 05:27
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