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Crashbee posted:None of those cases involve the Jem Hadar rebelling against the Dominion though, they're still operating within spec as obedient soldier-slaves. If anything those stories are showing the practical limits of the genetic super soldier trope - the Jem Hadar have enough free will to operate autonomously for years on end, but they're also clearly aware that their loyalty is conditioned rather than earned, even if they're unable to do anything about it. How much genuine loyalty would you be able to expect from someone who knows they're programmed to die for you? There's an episode where a bunch of Jem-hadar find an Iconian gateway and decide to use it to take down the Dominion, and Sisko has to team up with Weyoun to stop them. Sisko asks Weyoun why the Founders don't just turn the Jem-hadar off and he hems and haws about it, but pretty much winds up admitting that there's no innate quality of loyalty to the Jem-hadar and the Founders' hold on their soldiers has a lot more to do with propaganda than reality. It's just a lifetime of drugs, violence, and religion conditioning them to be loyal. e: though I guess Weyoun could have been bullshitting, because the story never takes a look at why the Jem-hadar actually rebelled apart from as an excuse to get Sisko and the crew to hang out with a bunch of Jem-hadar friendlies for an hour. skasion fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Sep 22, 2015 |
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Sep 22, 2015 01:08
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Tujague posted:Every time the Jem Hadar had a speaking role in a late DS9 ep, they did poo poo that wouldn't fly in the U.S. Coast Guard and we don't even genetically manipulate those guys OR get them hooked on crack cocaine. Probably because coast guard men are not barely controlled masses of homicidal rage ready to die at any moment. If the coast guard were ordered, "I want you all to run up this hill with knives and stab everyone at the top, and you're all going to die because there are too many of them and they have guns, but it will show the glory of the United States, die bravely!", they wouldn't do it. Or "Crash your boat into the enemy battleship, it won't sink it, but it will put a serious dent in the hull and make them think twice next time, as you sink to the bottom you will be happy to know the President is proud of you". A sloppy system with parts that sometimes work against one another can still be more functional than a smoothly efficient "perfect" system. This is why democratic republics have outcompeted monarchies and dictatorships across the planet in the real world. A perfectly wise king may be better than a congress/president combination, but the sloppy democratic system works, and the wise king ususally turns out to be not so wise.
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Sep 22, 2015 01:58
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They should have just taken Constable Odo on every mission and engagement that involved the Jem Hadar and stuck him up at the front and he call tell them not to fire and to lower their weapons. I mean who would they most likely listen to, a changling who they view as a God or their Vorta line manger who they despise for being cowardly
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Sep 22, 2015 02:07
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Unless Odo can turn his O-dick into ketrecel white, my money is on the line manager.
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Sep 22, 2015 02:10
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Starfleet engineers can turn rocks into replicators. I'm sure they can synthesize some Ketracell W for a brother
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Sep 22, 2015 02:15
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Figaro posted:Starfleet engineers can turn rocks into replicators. I'm sure they can synthesize some Ketracell W for a brother They can turn out bland Starfleet pabulum in geologic quantities, but when it comes to producing a substance with panache, say a Romulan ale or some briney hasperat, they fail every time. No way can they make a really delicious death-staving-off whole body dna coded loyalty drug. But they'd make you an excellent Synkacel White. You'd not catch a buzz and you'd die within hours of withdrawal in agony, but it would taste very much like Dad Sisko's Lobster Pain And Suffering Bisque.
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Sep 22, 2015 02:19
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Bashir replicated some kettie dubs during a slow afternoon in the infirmary for that babby jem'hedar
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Sep 22, 2015 02:23
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Jake-O NEEDs a line of kettie before he does his writings or win at Dom-jot or get a hard enough erection to gently caress a dabo girl
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Sep 22, 2015 02:33
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BottledBodhisvata posted:I definitely get a 40k vibe from the Dominion, although it also seems to suggest that there's a buffer zone of "unoccupied space" between the Dominion and the Wormhole. Like, a bunch of aliens come through the wormhole and they only know of the Dominion as this huge authoritarian force nearby, but never particularly present. They were sort of like the Ming dynasty. They could've taken over the quadrant, but decided not to for their own inscrutable reasons.
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Sep 22, 2015 03:09
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Figaro posted:They should have just taken Constable Odo on every mission and engagement that involved the Jem Hadar and stuck him up at the front and he call tell them not to fire and to lower their weapons. I mean who would they most likely listen to, a changling who they view as a God or their Vorta line manger who they despise for being cowardly This same thought has crossed my mind, too.
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Sep 22, 2015 03:50
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Harveygod posted:This same thought has crossed my mind, too. Odo would angrily declare that he is not a founder, and then deal with it how he dealt with most issues, by handing in his resignation.
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Sep 22, 2015 04:11
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i, for one, wish star trek used even more deus ex machina plot devices to resolve dramatic situations
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Sep 22, 2015 04:13
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probably one of my favourite things is when, iirc after being captured, worf immediately and brutally murders weyoun and dumar just lols shithousedly
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Sep 22, 2015 05:29
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having major characters be clones is a good way to be able to murder your important characters for whatever reason w/ no consequences. better than a dream sequence or holodeck simulation at any rate
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Sep 22, 2015 05:30
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Ambrose Burnside posted:probably one of my favourite things is when, iirc after being captured, worf immediately and brutally murders weyoun and dumar just lols shithousedly One of the greatest moments in the entire show.
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Sep 22, 2015 05:31
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my old dad likes star trek
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Sep 22, 2015 05:31
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Putty posted:my old dad likes star trek shut the gently caress up you loving retard ----------------
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Sep 22, 2015 05:35
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I'd like an episode of tng were the perpetually smug bartender Guinan meets an Ensign Ro like character and is like "She's my friend Captain, my judgement is top notch and never faulty!". So then Guinan never leaves this new recruit alone and is always popping in with home spun wisdom and alien parables... So her new friend proceeds to stab her multiple times to death to stop her regenerating and everyone is like "meh" because Guinans rubbish
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Sep 22, 2015 06:27
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Ambrose Burnside posted:probably one of my favourite things is when, iirc after being captured, worf immediately and brutally murders weyoun and dumar just lols shithousedly And is still chuckling when Weyoun +1 comes into work the next day.
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Sep 22, 2015 07:38
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Not just chuckling, but throwing it back in his face with a "maybe you should talk to Worf again"
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Sep 22, 2015 08:04
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Good news everyone, time to throw away your treadmills because somebody is making a replica of the Enterprise D in UE4 with VR support. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK9ijZeHWjI http://www.enterprise3dproject.com/ Since you nerds will whine about something being wrong in the walkthrough of the stuff he has done, the dude explains why he's changed certain things. quote:The technical specs have been out for decades about this ship. But what do they mean? The USS Enterprise – D has 42 Decks. Sprinkled throughout these decks are all of the control rooms for weapons, sickbays, holodecks, and crew quarters. Creating all of them will be a daunting task. I have compiled a large archive of reference from production drawings, set blueprints, official blueprints, and of course meticulous screen captures of the HD Blu-ray versions of the episodes. The standards for creating the virtual Enterprise are prioritized as follows:
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Sep 22, 2015 08:20
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Yaos posted:Good news everyone, time to throw away your treadmills because somebody is making a replica of the Enterprise D in UE4 with VR support. *jizz* There are so many amazing things that were supposedly on the Enterprise-D that they just never had the ability to actually show because they hadn't invented Set Extension yet, this could be amazing. And also, a game company should just buy this to make Elite Force 3.
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Sep 22, 2015 08:23
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Yaos posted:Good news everyone, time to throw away your treadmills because somebody is making a replica of the Enterprise D in UE4 with VR support. The three loving seashells in the head  drat, I want an Elite Force 3 so badly right now.
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Sep 22, 2015 08:35
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Alternatively, buy it and use it as the base for Star Trek TNG TAS.
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Sep 22, 2015 08:42
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Lol at the idea you could genetically engineer a race to never rebel and leave it at that. Life finds a way. Also RoboCop was literally programmed not to kill evil corp employees and yet he still managed to defeat that evil corp employee so I think having redundant controls which you hope you never need is a smart idea. Also the Founders were paranoid, loads of stuff points to that. They think they are superior to solids in every way yet constantly scared the solids will destroy them for being different. It's just the star trek equivalent of having 7 locks on your door and CCTV in your house.
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Sep 22, 2015 09:43
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Kitchner posted:Lol at the idea you could genetically engineer a race to never rebel and leave it at that. No he didn't. He killed the evil former corp employee!
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Sep 22, 2015 10:32
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Kitchner posted:RoboCop was literally programmed not to kill evil corp employees and yet he still managed to defeat that evil corp employee I guess you missed the line "Dick, you're fired!"? It wasn't as good as Bitches Leave, but it was still there.
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Sep 22, 2015 10:39
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It's overshadowed by him turning into slenderman on the way down.
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Sep 22, 2015 11:30
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That's why I said defeated not "killed" as he defeated the evil corp employee by getting him fired, then he killed him  Which goes to prove my point, evil corp guy thought he was untouchable thanks to RoboCop's programming but he still found a way to gently caress him over. Like say Jem'Hadar couldn't kill founders, Odo or someone like him could just waltz through their entire Navy and destroy the founder homeworld. Even when the other founders denounced Odo as a traitor, they wouldn't be able to fire. Or maybe they can't kill a Founder but it doesn't mean they can't lock them all in jam jars and lock the jam jars in the vault of a planet or something. Maybe you put some sort of genetic thing in them that means you can kill them by knowing the right word. It means the Federation or someone just needs to get that word and they can kill your entire army. Basically what the founders did was smart and thinking you can genetically engineer super soldiers that never rebel against you is the exact type of bad guy plot villain thinking that gets you killed in super soldier rebellions.
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Sep 22, 2015 11:32
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Fallit Kot. How does a species evolve a face like this? Fucker can't eat.
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Sep 22, 2015 12:07
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It only eats with the side if it's mouth so it can look for predators better. Duh.
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Sep 22, 2015 12:36
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they evolved to eat a food very similar to corn. that is a builtin corn holder.
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Sep 22, 2015 12:42
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Germstore posted:they evolved to eat a food very similar to corn. that is a builtin corn holder. Best explanation i've heard so far.
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Sep 22, 2015 12:47
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I made a quick mockup of what feeding time might look like.
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Sep 22, 2015 12:57
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As far as I'm concerned Gemstore now has a degree in exobiology from the Daystrom institute.
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Sep 22, 2015 13:34
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Rattus Amicus posted:I made a quick mockup of what feeding time might look like. I take back my explanation, the corn one is obviously correct.
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Sep 22, 2015 13:35
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Kitchner posted:Lol at the idea you could genetically engineer a race to never rebel and leave it at that. Uh... yeah? Did you miss all the other redundancies they built in on top of the genetic engineering? The kind that make it clear they specifically did not just genetically engineer them and call it a day? The addiction to White, the brutal hierarchical structure, the control of information, all that poo poo? Did you pay attention during the show?
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Sep 22, 2015 14:27
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What the gently caress are you on about? Someone else was saying it's dumb that the founders put all these pointless controls in like the poo poo you're talking about because you can just genetically engineer them to never rebel. I'm saying it's because you can't just genetically create super solders who are unable to rebel because it never works, there's always a way around their genetics. Hence the need for all the other stuff. You're just asking me if I noticed all the stuff I am alluding to in my post? Uhh yeah I did, that's why I'm defending it's existence?
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Sep 22, 2015 17:28
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Kitchner posted:Lol at the idea you could genetically engineer a race to never rebel and leave it at that. It's showed pretty clearly the programming isn't enough, like several times.
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Sep 22, 2015 17:33
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NOTHING was enough, the Jem Hadar spent all of seasons 6 and 7 loving up, disobeying orders and creating a hostile work environment All that wonking on and on about drugs and genetics got worse results than Russian conscripts in World War 1 The founders are bad at slave races Vorta: Ok, kill Worf Jem'Hadar: F.U. Goon: The writers are saying that LIFE FINDS A WAY, MAN! edit are we starting a pool on when that virtual reality star trek guy gets busted for you-know-what Tujague fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Sep 22, 2015 |
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Sep 22, 2015 18:11
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