Star Citizen: Fear, Uncertainty, and Debt

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Star Citizen: Fear, Uncertainty, and Debt

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AP: Jul 12, 2004; One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them; Grimey Drawer

For all his talk of Evil Publishers, Chris Roberts pitched it to EA first.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:16

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# ? May 9, 2024 13:23

eonwe: Aug 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

Xaerael posted:

HOLY poo poo.

The box art for the game HAS BEEN LEAKED. Don't get too hyped too quickly, but I think this is a game changer... I'm probably taking back all my dissent.

Image behind spoiler so I don't ruin it for everyone.

This loving owns

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:16

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

Randarkman posted:

Far as I can gather, the X-Wing games, and especially TIE-Fighter were much better than the Wing Commander series.

This is true and I don't really understand what people see in WC

I've heard a couple people say it's more 'realistic' which, lmao

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:17

Hav: Dec 11, 2009; Fun Shoe

SirTagz posted:

Actually I compared pressing a button and printing out a 'gigantic booklet containing a line by line breakdown of material costs, cost overruns, projected budgets and a tally month over month over various item etc' to flipping a burger

So still completely dishonest, but also minimizing.

edit:

Diversity.

Hav fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Oct 2, 2015

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:19

it dont matter: Aug 29, 2008

AP posted:

The $90M crash of Star Citizen

Above is very interesting, I wonder who else is going to start talking now.

Grrr that Derek Smart is at it again! This has his fingerprints all over it! Once I've snorted this enormous pile of coke I'm going to write a very angry letter that will put him in his place I tell you what!

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:20

BadOptics: Sep 11, 2012

AP posted:

The $90M crash of Star Citizen

Above is very interesting, I wonder who else is going to start talking now.

The only thing really interesting is that this is the first voxday post I've seen that isn't a long screed raging about "nefarious SJWs" ruining his :qq:

precious sci-fi genre :qq:

. Also it's pretty rich the Robert's brought up GG when voxday is the leader of the "Rabid puppies" and he supposedly (in the linked post) helped out CR in the early days of the project.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:21

brakanjan: May 26, 2014

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

EVE Online remains one of my fondest gaming experiences. The feeling that it was real and consequential was amazing. Pity the gameplay is so loving boring.

Yeah I reckon EVE Online's, no holds barred, sandbox probably inspired more people to fund SC. Perhaps those of us that are in the + in the spaceship trade should request our refunds be donated to eve to ramp up gameplay.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:22

Onmi: Jul 12, 2013; If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Exmond posted:

Sandi Roberts looks at the damage done by her husband, pushes him aside from the computer and starts typing. Typing the letter that will calm the internet, the letter that will inspire more people to join the cult.

"Rabid Puppies"

It is funny to see the cultists mind squirm, especially if they were on the side of groups like Vox and championed sites like the Escapist. Because it means a ridiculous amount of double think "No I'm not the braindead cultist who's Listening and Believing, you are for trusting the escapist!"

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:22

The Kins: Oct 2, 2004

AP posted:

The $90M crash of Star Citizen

quote:
But as too many developers have done before him, he appears to have effectively combined the lead designer's role with the lead producer's role into a single Game Director's role for which he and many other designers - including me - are temperamentally unsuited, and as a consequence the project appears to have gone off the rails as a direct result of too much money combined with too many good ideas and too little focus on actually implementing those ideas and getting things done

This, above all else, IMHO, is what has doomed everything. There needs to be dedicated producers who can tell the creatives "no" and set hard deadlines and budgets. They won't like it, and they'll curse the producers under their breaths every working day, but the actual end product will be... well, there'll actually be an end product instead of a bunch of tell-all stories about What Could Have Been.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:22

Agrajag: Jan 21, 2006; gat dang thats hot

SirTagz posted:

Actually I compared pressing a button and printing out a 'gigantic booklet containing a line by line breakdown of material costs, cost overruns, projected budgets and a tally month over month over various item etc' to flipping a burger

haha youre incredibly dense and still miss the point

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:23

Malleovic: Sep 8, 2007; OMGGG you could've tripped and DIED

AP posted:

The $90M crash of Star Citizen

Above is very interesting, I wonder who else is going to start talking now.

Good, well written article, even if it is just the author basically saying, "You know that thing that people are starting to get worried about? Well I've been worried about it too!"

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:23

Randarkman: Jul 18, 2011

IronicDongz posted:

This is true and I don't really understand what people see in WC

I've heard a couple people say it's more 'realistic' which, lmao

I find it's hilarious that people think 'realism' is of the utmost importance in a game about dogfighting in space, an idea that pretty much began with Star Wars as WWII in space. Yeah, realistic.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:23

Gerbil_Pen: Apr 6, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

brakanjan posted:

Yeah I reckon EVE Online's, no holds barred, sandbox probably inspired more people to fund SC. Perhaps those of us that are in the + in the spaceship trade should request our refunds be donated to eve to ramp up gameplay.

boot.ini

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:24

AP: Jul 12, 2004; One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them; Grimey Drawer

BadOptics posted:

The only thing really interesting is that this is the first voxday post I've seen that isn't a long screed raging about "nefarious SJWs" ruining his precious sci-fi genre. Also it's pretty rich the Robert's brought up GG when voxday is the leader of the "Rabid puppies" and he supposedly (in the linked post) helped out CR in the early days of the project.

Well I didn't know that Chris Roberts was in talks with EA for Star Citizen with a $25 million budget. As for all the gamergate stuff, I don't know anything about it as I get crippling headaches when someone talks about it.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:25

FAT32 SHAMER: Aug 16, 2012

Randarkman posted:

I find it's hilarious that people think 'realism' is of the utmost importance in a game about dogfighting in space, an idea that pretty much began with Star Wars as WWII in space. Yeah, realistic.

Don't even talk to me about how useless wings and aerodynamics are in space!!!

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:25

sakeyake: Feb 1, 2004

IronicDongz posted:

why do these nerds care so much about space sims anyways

they're ok at best

They're expecting this to be the ultimate science fiction life simulator where people who pre-ordered a fleet of $900 fake ships will live like space emperors and poo poo on all the jerks who only spend $50 on the game. Plus if Star Citizen fails, they'll all be stuck playing EVE and Elite: Dangerous forever because nobody will try making a space sim of this scale ever again.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:25

Nuclearmonkee: Jun 10, 2009

Randarkman posted:

I find it's hilarious that people think 'realism' is of the utmost importance in a game about dogfighting in space, an idea that pretty much began with Star Wars as WWII in space. Yeah, realistic.

Any kind of proposed "realistic" space fight game would be intensely boring but spergs will be spergs. Want realistic physics and ladder animations for WW2 dogfight in space.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:26

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

sakeyake posted:

They're expecting this to be the ultimate science fiction life simulator where people who pre-ordered a fleet of $900 fake ships will live like space emperors and poo poo on all the jerks who only spend $50 on the game.

that sounds very boring

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:28

brakanjan: May 26, 2014

Gerbil_Pen posted:

boot.ini

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:29

Sarsapariller: Aug 14, 2015; Occasional vampire queen

AP posted:

Well I didn't know that Chris Roberts was in talks with EA for Star Citizen with a $25 million budget. As for all the gamergate stuff, I don't know anything about it as I get crippling headaches when someone talks about it.

For Wing Commander, originally. And interestingly enough, PGI's Transverse flop was also rumored (by themselves) to have been spun off from an attempt at the Wing Commander license. I'd really like to see the history of where that project went.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:30

Assepoester: Jul 18, 2004; Can't post for 10 years!; Melman v2

AP posted:

The $90M crash of Star Citizen

Above is very interesting, I wonder who else is going to start talking now.

Chris Roberts is friends with Vox loving Day? They discussed Star Citizen together? This explains so, so much.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:30

Randarkman: Jul 18, 2011

IronicDongz posted:

that sounds very boring

Unless I can suicide bomb a free starter ship into the bridge of their $900 space limo. I've always thought that's the most promising aspect of this game if it ever came out according to ~Chris's Vision~, since he said something like player skill and tactics could always beat the odds and that anyone could get the best ships in about 2 weeks of play.

Never bothered spending money on it though. I smelled scam and I generally stay away from kickstarters and similar projects.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:31

AP: Jul 12, 2004; One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them; Grimey Drawer

Sarsapariller posted:

For Wing Commander, originally.

Star Citizen is Wing Commander, if you don't have the rights, which you don't if the EA deal falls through which it did.........

https://twitter.com/JonBolds/status/649952520090030080

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:31

brakanjan: May 26, 2014

IronicDongz posted:

that sounds very boring

Yeah if there is no fear of losing a $1000 ship then there is no fun.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:32

AP: Jul 12, 2004; One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them; Grimey Drawer

Cardboard Box A posted:

Chris Roberts is friends with Vox loving Day? They discussed Star Citizen together? This explains so, so much.

Ok explain it, you get one chance at this, don't blow it.

Don't use a single three-letter acronym, preview your post before you post, then edit it to make it to make the words simpler. Try to imagine the person you are speaking to thinks you're going to be barmy and instead decide to impress him with how normal you can be by talking sensibly.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:36

Sillybones: Aug 10, 2013; go away,
spooky skeleton,
go away

brakanjan posted:

Yeah if there is no fear of losing a $1000 ship then there is no fun.

Maybe this is late to ask, but what are people buying exactly? They are paying megabux for imaginary ships, I think, but then those ships get destroyed, do they have to buy it again?

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:37

Zsinjeh: Jun 11, 2007; :shoboobs:

Who was even going to buy Star Citizen. Every person on earth that would have wanted to buy it has already pledged. Where would the sales come from, in an incredibly niche genre no less.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:37

Sarsapariller: Aug 14, 2015; Occasional vampire queen

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3n864z/where_does_the_trust_towards_chris_roberts_come/

Somebody asks legitimate question- backers are outraged.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:37

FAT32 SHAMER: Aug 16, 2012

I forget, is there an in game currency in SC like there is in EVE so if your ship gets blown up you may be out a ship worth $1000 but it only cost you 500,000,000 spacebucks?

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:38

BadOptics: Sep 11, 2012

AP posted:

Ok explain it, you get one chance at this, don't blow it.

Don't use a single three-letter acronym, preview your post before you post, then edit it to make it to make the words simpler. Try to imagine the person you are speaking to thinks you're going to be barmy and instead decide to impress him with how normal you can be by talking sensibly.

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2015/10/the-end-of-1st-amendment.html

quote:

After the Breivik shootings in Norway, I said that future Europeans generations will likely regard him as a national hero akin to William Tell and Vlad Tepes. In light of the way events are beginning to take shape, I may have been in error. They may well make him a saint.

Edit: And that's just skimming the first few blogs.

BadOptics fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Oct 2, 2015

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:39

Gerbil_Pen: Apr 6, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

Also it's nice to see crazy loon sleeps.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:40

AP: Jul 12, 2004; One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them; Grimey Drawer

BadOptics posted:

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2015/10/the-end-of-1st-amendment.html

ha, holy gently caress. *closes tab*.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:42

it dont matter: Aug 29, 2008

Sarsapariller posted:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3n864z/where_does_the_trust_towards_chris_roberts_come/

Somebody asks legitimate question- backers are outraged.

Wow those comments are garbage. Rather than attempting to actually engage in a discussion they're either whining WALL OF TEXT DIDN'T READ or accusing him of being Derek Smart.

Even for Reddit the SC sub is a toilet.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:45

wafflemoose: Apr 10, 2009

Good thing I only wasted $50 on this garbage. Still want it back though.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:46

FAT32 SHAMER: Aug 16, 2012

Sarsapariller posted:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3n864z/where_does_the_trust_towards_chris_roberts_come/

Somebody asks legitimate question- backers are outraged.

THIS WALL OF TEXT IS UNREADABLE WITH THE CURRENT FORMAT AND ALSO I SMELL A SHILL CHRIST ROBERTS IS A loving GOD gently caress YOU YOU CORPORATE SHILL

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:46

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

e: f;b

MeLKoR fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Oct 2, 2015

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:47

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

IronicDongz posted:

This is true and I don't really understand what people see in WC

I've heard a couple people say it's more 'realistic' which, lmao

Wing Commander was one of the first games to really drive storytelling into the heart of the game. Before Wing Commander (and for quite a while afterwards) if story existed in your game it typically existed purely as part of your hundred page hefty manual. Actually telling a story as part of a game and part of the gameplay was a revolutionary step forwards.

Remember Wing Commander is 1990, X-Wing is '93 and Tie-Fighter is '94. Wing Commander is the dividing line between 2d/3d space shooters where you just had level after level of shooting the bad guys because they were the bad guys and games which had a narrative.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:53

BadOptics: Sep 11, 2012

alphabettitouretti posted:

Wow those comments are garbage. Rather than attempting to actually engage in a discussion they're either whining WALL OF TEXT DIDN'T READ or accusing him of being Derek Smart.

Even for Reddit the SC sub is a toilet.

http://culteducation.com/warningsigns.html

quote:

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.

Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
The group/leader is always right.
The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.

Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.
Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.
Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".
Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.
Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.
Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.
A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.
Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.
Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.
Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

BadOptics fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Oct 2, 2015

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:57

sakeyake: Feb 1, 2004

Tusen Takk posted:

I forget, is there an in game currency in SC like there is in EVE so if your ship gets blown up you may be out a ship worth $1000 but it only cost you 500,000,000 spacebucks?

Yeah there's in-game currency and insurance is supposedly meant to be inexpensive enough that hardly anyone will be permanently losing their ships unless they make a huge mistake. Also if you spend $1000+ on a ship it probably comes with lifetime insurance.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 15:58

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# ? May 9, 2024 13:23

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

Alchenar posted:

Wing Commander was one of the first games to really drive storytelling into the heart of the game. Before Wing Commander (and for quite a while afterwards) if story existed in your game it typically existed purely as part of your hundred page hefty manual. Actually telling a story as part of a game and part of the gameplay was a revolutionary step forwards.

That doesn't seem to be what SC people are interested in though. There's basically no talk of attempting to make SC have a coherent narrative or anything.

# ? Oct 2, 2015 16:00

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