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Nowhere in that mess does it subtract points, and I don't see any symmetry calculations either. Also, "bonus aspects" are ghost points. Not real research points. McFrugal fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Oct 6, 2015 |
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Oct 6, 2015 08:52
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McFrugal posted:Giant wall of death? Sounds like the apocalyptic type of grey goo in the grey goo mod. I was imagining it as a stormfront, or a wall of clouds and lightning, or something. It wouldn't respect loaded or unloaded chunks, just destroy stuff where position.x > time * scalefactor. Anything unloaded would just get removed from the map. Player spawn points would have to be recreated ahead of the wall, and there are a load of other issues. The main concern for me is whether randomly generated content can be fun enough, without going entirely Dwarf Fortress levels of insane worldgen. President Ark posted:I feel like a good expansion on blightfall's concept of "a fixed world that you explore for goodies" might be a mystcraft modpack where there's a main "puzzle world" that's made mostly out of indestructible blocks you solve puzzles on in order to gain access to books containing worlds that you can actually interact with. That was the other idea I had, but I don't have even close to the level of building skill required to make custom maps. Someone else make this so I can play it. Wolfsbane fucked around with this message at 10:47 on Oct 6, 2015 |
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Oct 6, 2015 10:43
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So hey, I tried playing galactic science and was having an OK time, but then night fell and the whole "hour and a half long unskippable night on a world where torches don't work" kind of ruined the pack for me. What are other people doing?
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Oct 6, 2015 20:24
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30.5 Days posted:So hey, I tried playing galactic science and was having an OK time, but then night fell and the whole "hour and a half long unskippable night on a world where torches don't work" kind of ruined the pack for me. What are other people doing? Glowstone torches do work! It's I think a bit of glowstone on a stick, not 100% certain though. Has anybody ripped it up onto Technic yet? The scenario seems right up my alley but I don't want to install yet another launcher.
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Oct 6, 2015 20:41
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Galactic science was ALMOST good for me, but it got EXTREMELY grindy just to get off the moon and I ended up losing interest. All the mods are really neat so it's kind of disappointing, though.
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Oct 6, 2015 21:17
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Edminster posted:Glowstone torches do work! It's I think a bit of glowstone on a stick, not 100% certain though. Has anybody ripped it up onto Technic yet? The scenario seems right up my alley but I don't want to install yet another launcher. Yep. Put turf in sieve, get glowstone dust, put dust on stick. Not an amazing lightsource, but better than nothing.
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Oct 7, 2015 00:54
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Can anyone help me figure out what's going on here? I have a 1.8 with Forge install with clientside only mods so I can play on vanilla servers and still have a minimap, WAILA, that kind of thing. But for whatever reason, I consistently get these flashing errors whenever I look the wrong way at something:  In the nether, it affects just about every goddamn thing. Mipmap levels are off because otherwise everything is black and the ground disappears. Fast graphics, tried setting fps to unlimited or a limit, VBOs on/off don't affect it, using BetterFPS or not doesn't affect it, MCPatcher on/off doesn't affect it. Turning down chunk view settings doesn't affect it. And I had to printscreen the screenshot, because it looks normal in the f2-key screenshot.
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Oct 7, 2015 02:12
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Magres posted:I felt like the exploration quests had really good rewards that appropriately rewarded trekking hundreds of meters and setting up outposts for light and shelter along the way, but yeah most of the game is dig hole never leave. You could also use it to cut through Thaumcraft stupidity - have completed research and fragments available in dungeons, making it so you can skip the terrible research game if you explore instead. Another thought - maybe combining what others have said about fixing machinery - maybe there's no natural power generation in the world (so like Blightfall without Botania) but fixing up the Old Machines will generate RF from a source near your starting location? Make it a tech heavy pack instead of magic, and so how much automation you do become dependent on how many Old Machines you've been able to fix.
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Oct 7, 2015 02:29
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taiyoko posted:Can anyone help me figure out what's going on here? Try removing WAILA and see if it clears up. The only 1.8 build that exists for WAILA has a bunch of lovely graphical bugs.
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Oct 7, 2015 02:29
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in general, mod support for 1.8 is pretty garbage
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Oct 7, 2015 03:03
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Eschers Basement posted:You could also use it to cut through Thaumcraft stupidity - have completed research and fragments available in dungeons, making it so you can skip the terrible research game if you explore instead. Ooh, that's a good idea, and works with a lot more settings than Blightfall style taint-removal.
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Oct 7, 2015 04:15
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Eschers Basement posted:You could also use it to cut through Thaumcraft stupidity - have completed research and fragments available in dungeons, making it so you can skip the terrible research game if you explore instead. That'd go nicely with my earlier burble about a "Fallout / SWTOR Taris" style ruined yet technologically advanced world. You want power? Small scale generators do still exist, and so does the ruins of the power grid. You might be able to tap into the latter and drain whatever dredges are left but you really need to find and fix up that local reactor. Oh, good job hero! You fixed the reactor. Unfortunately the hardened power lines leading to one of the nearby automated military bases are still running. The Kill-Bots are coming. 
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Oct 7, 2015 13:00
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Thyrork posted:That'd go nicely with my earlier burble about a "Fallout / SWTOR Taris" style ruined yet technologically advanced world. My first thought reading that is how tricky it would be to prevent players from sabotaging an automated killbot factory before the power turned on. You just know people would have the whole place set up to gib the monsters and suck up the loot the moment the first killbot spawned. You'd have to use unbreakable blocks to keep them out or do something clever.
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Oct 7, 2015 13:50
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No, letting them do something clever is fine. You just need to layer the trickery. Killbots example: Turning on the reactor "floods" the lower level in radiactive material, cutting off your entrance. You need to clean that up. Meanwhile power is heading towards the killbot factory, thats already reactivated its own defenses and is preparing to send out monsters. Normal player? not going to be aware of this and panicking about radioactive spillage. Clever player? You could cut the power before then, but you still have a cleanup to worry about. Eitherway, the killbot factory is online now. Unless... Cleverist player? You already head out and shut down the factory while it was mostly inert. But you did that with less gear then you could have had because you had very little power. Preparation wins out! Thyrork fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Oct 7, 2015 |
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Oct 7, 2015 14:10
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No one's going to push a random button after the first time they get burned; then, if you start doing triggers at doors, the first thing any minecraft player is going to do is create a 2x1 tunnel along side and pop in at unexpected areas, or mine down from the surface. You'd need a ME^3 style system to force the player to start only in the entrance. you'd have to make way too much stuff into bedrock to make it very fun :/ Bhodi fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Oct 7, 2015 |
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Oct 7, 2015 16:59
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Bhodi posted:No one's going to push a random button after the first time they get burned; then, if you start doing triggers at doors, the first thing any minecraft player is going to do is create a 2x1 tunnel along side and pop in at unexpected areas, or mine down from the surface. You'd need a ME^3 style system to force the player to start only in the entrance. It would be interesting to see what kind of tricks a mapmaker could get away with using external code. There are mods that allow you to translocate builds and map pieces based on map coordinates, stored data, frames, and the like ... but I wonder what it would take to set up a system where you could swap out unloaded chunk data to bring in new set pieces while the player is away. First time a player explores and loots, you find a ruined factory. Player does something several chunks away, and returns to find a working infrastructure being actively patrolled. No visible triggers. Better yet, keep the previous map data somewhere, have a mechanism by which it can be compared to the new chunk data, and anything the player placed? If it interferes with the flow of the map, stick it in a secured chest that is now being guarded by the patrols.
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Oct 7, 2015 17:21
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You could always beam power to the kill labs by Tesseract and honor system the player into not touching preplaced tesseracts I guess. Most modpacks have a little honor system stuff in them anyway.
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Oct 7, 2015 19:19
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You're never going to win the "force the player to play a specific way" game. Even if you bedrock everything, it's not exactly hard to pop to creative and smash some bedrock. All you can really do is set up a bunch of toys, explain how you intend for them to be played with, and let the player decide how they want to have fun. Has anyone ever played much with Dimensional Doors? I feel like there's some potential there for a pretty scary modpack, the first time I dropped into Limbo I was ready to poo poo a brick because I had no idea how the hell to get out. Wound up spending like an hour or two wandering around, freaking out at the goddamned eyes in the walls teleporting me around, before one of my friends told me that iron doors go down and wooden doors go up and I just needed to focus on finding and getting into wooden doors to climb my way back out.
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Oct 7, 2015 21:09
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I used to used DDs so drat much. I'd just have a small building in the overworld with a door that let to a hub dimension of more doors, or a base inside a door dimension, or just doors in a base leading to specialized automation dimensions etc. poo poo ruled. Rifts were not cool though.
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Oct 7, 2015 21:16
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Did I miss a new version of DimDoors being out?
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Oct 7, 2015 21:18
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Light Gun Man posted:I used to used DDs so drat much. I'd just have a small building in the overworld with a door that let to a hub dimension of more doors, or a base inside a door dimension, or just doors in a base leading to specialized automation dimensions etc. poo poo ruled. Rifts? The dungeon-y things it generates? Cause I love those fuckers, they're terrifying
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Oct 7, 2015 21:35
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I thought he meant the black particle effects that ate the world around them and spawned more rifts.
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Oct 7, 2015 21:54
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Magres posted:You're never going to win the "force the player to play a specific way" game. Even if you bedrock everything, it's not exactly hard to pop to creative and smash some bedrock. All you can really do is set up a bunch of toys, explain how you intend for them to be played with, and let the player decide how they want to have fun. Said it better then I could.
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Oct 7, 2015 21:59
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Wolpertinger posted:Galactic science was ALMOST good for me, but it got EXTREMELY grindy just to get off the moon and I ended up losing interest. All the mods are really neat so it's kind of disappointing, though. Uh what? It's never been a problem for me because I bring enough fuel for the return trip, do other people not do this?
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Oct 7, 2015 22:19
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Acne Rain posted:Uh what? It's never been a problem for me because I bring enough fuel for the return trip, do other people not do this? Galactic science starts you on the moon  . Do you mean some other modpack? Getting enough metal to make a tier 2 rocket ship (overworld is not visitable) with ex nihilo is pure torture. I think it's what, at least 40+ tier 2 heavy duty plates, with each heavy duty plate being 2 steel plates, 2 bronze plates, 2 aluminum plates, and then the steel plates having to be manually compressed one by one in a slow compressor from iron plates and coal, (and the iron plates being made from 2 ingots each in the same), and bronze plates being one tin plate and one copper plate, while having to manually hammer every single bit of ex nihilo ore pieces down to dust in case you might get a few more ingots, because you don't have the metal to make an autohammerer or the power to be able to justify running it, and you having no pulverizer or anything better than a vanilla furnace since all the good stuff is locked behind metal from mars.The annoying thing is it looks like it might get really neat if you can bite the bullet and power on through it (i've never touched Galacticraft or Minechem or RFtools or enderIO before this modpack), but goddamn. Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Oct 7, 2015 |
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Oct 7, 2015 22:39
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The recent talk about quest modpacks has been very interesting to me. A while ago, inspired by Blightfall I started working on something similar in hopes of capturing what made it good while fixing the problems. To me the main issue is the supposed focus, cleaning the world. Not the idea of it but the implementation. From the way the system is designed to reward you with badges as you progress I get the impression that the cleaning was supposed to be something you do gradually over the course of the game. However at the beginning the player doesn't really have good means of reclaiming meaningful amounts of land, and once they have progressed to the point they can make and fuel dawn machines the only thing left to do is just wait for them to do their thing. Cleaning the world is not something the player can really do by playing, rather it's something to just wait for once you've already finished everything. I don't intend to imitate Blightfall there but on conceptual level I do like claiming the world piece by piece. Another modpack that gave me ideas is Crash Landing. The gist of it being that you are stranded on a scorching hot desert and desperately need water to survive. It was captivating at first but pretty soon the water mechanic becomes just endless repetition dragging your waterpack to the crafting grid to refill it. And so this modpack also falls apart. Still, despite their failings I really like the sense of hostility their worlds present, and I think I've found a way to improve on them.  The basic design I've come up with is this. The world is divided into progressively Hot areas, and the player needs to find ways to upgrade their Coolness to enter them without bursting into flames. The main benchmark of progress is your Coolness, as areas and resources are gated behind it. Your UI will also always display it, telling you how close you are to the endgame. There are still a bunch of things to implement but I hope to put out a demo version in a reasonable timely manner. If you have any opinions on the thoughts I've written please let me know. Especially if you can see problems in the progression system.
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Oct 7, 2015 23:11
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That's pretty cool, though I'd do heat/cold as less of an instant repercussion that hard gates you out of areas and more as a gradual thing that builds up and starts dealing damage over time, possibly first inflicting debuffs (moving around when you're suffering heat exhaustion is doable but hard). Also things like dewars of ice, liquid nitrogen, frozen nitrogen, and liquid helium (or gelid cryotheum or whatever made up material you want to call it) as a way to have consumables that you can use as heat sinks would be cool. Dewars are just thermoses, but it sounds cooler to use scientific terms (vacuum flask is also an accurate name). It gives the player meaningful choices in terms of risk vs reward (do I brave the danger of the hot area for the materials it gives?) and in terms of how much prep they want to do for their trip and in terms of how much effort they want to sink into consumables for short term trips to hot areas or into their cooling capabilities to make longer expeditions. I really like the idea of the word having varying hostility though! You could also do stuff where like actions generate heat from exertion (I'd just tie that to hunger if you do it - basically using up hunger shanks turns them into heat bars) and have, in addition to the actual heat of an area, varying amounts of world hostility in terms of the mobs. So a really peaceful, scorching hot area might be easier to handle than a slightly cooler but heavily infested area where you'd have to fight constantly and could never take a break to let your cooling kick in and cool you off. The programmed temperature of the infested area would be lower than the peaceful area, but the effective temperature would be higher because of how much heat you'd force the player to generate. (I hope no one minds if I  about game design ideas, I'm a total nerd for game design stuff. Not all of it applies to minecraft, but the blog post Riot Games did about game design is short, interesting, and the ideas there can really help both with coming up with new game features and with evaluating ones you've got)
Magres fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Oct 7, 2015 |
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Oct 7, 2015 23:22
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That would have been a cool way to gate Blightfall too. Make areas too tainted to enter and let the player counter it with tech or magic (magical wards or space suits) and for the endgame stuff you need a combination of things. This would alleviate the problem of Goonrushing all the secret stuff on the Goonfall server for example, where in the first iteration we basically teched to the endgame in two days.
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Oct 7, 2015 23:27
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Jvie, you might want to take a look at how Twilight Forest gates its progress and the systems used within. It might be fuel for your fire if anything else and it is A Good Mod... even if it utterly ruins servers with its (imo better) world gen.
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Oct 7, 2015 23:28
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The debuffs and consumables are something I thought about. Keeping track of consumables felt like it could get annoying but now that you said it, the risk vs reward aspect of it does sound nice. For heat debuffs I'll probably have there be a step before instant death so you don't die right away if you stumble into too hot area.quote:You could also do stuff where like actions generate heat from exertion (I'd just tie that to hunger if you do it - basically using up hunger shanks turns them into heat bars) and have, in addition to the actual heat of an area, varying amounts of world hostility in terms of the mobs. So a really peaceful, scorching hot area might be easier to handle than a slightly cooler but heavily infested area where you'd have to fight constantly and could never take a break to let your cooling kick in and cool you off. The programmed temperature of the infested area would be lower than the peaceful area, but the effective temperature would be higher because of how much heat you'd force the player to generate. I'm not quite sure if having the current Hotness depend on so many variables is a good idea. Feels like it might get annoying, but who knows? quote:Jvie, you might want to take a look at how Twilight Forest gates its progress and the systems used within. It might be fuel for your fire if anything else and it is A Good Mod... even if it utterly ruins servers with its (imo better) world gen. I've played TF... never all the way to a boss though. I'll need to do that. quote:That would have been a cool way to gate Blightfall too. Make areas too tainted to enter and let the player counter it with tech or magic (magical wards or space suits) and for the endgame stuff you need a combination of things. This would alleviate the problem of Goonrushing all the secret stuff on the Goonfall server for example, where in the first iteration we basically teched to the endgame in two days. My thoughts exactly. Jvie fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Oct 7, 2015 |
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Oct 7, 2015 23:32
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Jvie posted:The debuffs and consumables are something I thought about. Keeping track of consumables felt like it could get annoying but now that you said it, the risk vs reward aspect of it does sound nice. For heat debuffs I'll probably have there be a step before instant death so you don't die right away if you stumble into too hot area. Make the consumables be containers that you can reuse and refill and it's not bad. Heck you could put a heatsink slot in the cooling suit! Oxygen Tanks in Galactic Science were never awful, they just didn't really add anything to it, as far as I got, because I was just chilling in my base doing Ex Nihilo things and swapping tanks out every now and then. They should just be A) powerful enough to be useful and B) have a high enough cost:gain setup that they're not worth spamming and ignoring the system with. Make them moderately to very involved to make, very handy to have on hand, and fairly easy to refill. I have like zero tolerance for tedium and would enjoy them. Jvie posted:The debuffs and consumables are something I thought about. Keeping track of consumables felt like it could get annoying but now that you said it, the risk vs reward aspect of it does sound nice. For heat debuffs I'll probably have there be a step before instant death so you don't die right away if you stumble into too hot area. I also have something slightly different in mind than you do - my idea was that there are basically two distinct 'hotness' stats - one that's on the player (think like a bar right above the hunger bar that's a blue/red slider bar that represents your internal body temperature) and a separate thing that's the actual zone temperature. The zone temperature is how quickly the external temperature raises your internal body temperature (leading to heat exhaustion, heat stroke, and death), and physically exerting yourself exacerbates it. Your suit cooling unit would steadily pump heat out at a rate corresponding to the level of the cooling unit, and thermoses filled with cold stuff would have a set amount of BTU or joules they can absorb before being used up. Basically how body heat actually works in real life It also depends on whether you want to hard gate areas (immediately get debuff, later death if you go into a hotter area than you can handle) or soft gate them (heat builds up over time before crippling then killing you) - I'm a big fan of soft gating because it lets players decide for themselves how to proceed, and means the game is pretty much permanently tantalizing them with the next awesome area they can really enjoy if they upgrade their cooling gear, but can only explore in small bursts until then. Soft gating also means that clever players can find ways to stretch limited resources beyond expectations and feel good about it. Personally, I like clawing my way to victory on a shoestring budget - in Blightfall, there's an area with a trio of hostile and (if you're unarmed and have wooden weapons) extremely dangerous mobs. I still had no armor and wooden weapons, so I dug my way through the walls, made elaborate tunnels around their little arena, and played crossbow peekaboo with them for ten minutes until I finally killed them all and felt awesome for having done something that I felt like I definitely was not expected to be able to do. Either way you go, please god have keep inventory set to true. Losing your poo poo on death is awful and would be doubly awful if it means you no longer have the suit you need to get to the spot where you died. Magres fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Oct 7, 2015 |
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Oct 7, 2015 23:37
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That does sound interesting. Your idea would for there to be at least three variables. Heat of the area, the player's cooling capability and their current heat. The player's heat level would normalize towards the ambient temperature while the cooling reduces it by some number of units per tick. fake edit: Oh you clarified it while I was typing. I used to be pretty set on my old idea but you present yours very well. I liked mine for the sheer simplicity but your arguments for soft gating are winning me over. I'm really looking towards testing these things and seeing how it works in practice. Sadly I still need to implement more things before any kind of proper playing is possible. I'm pretty set on making the world feel weird and unfamiliar so I'm doing totally custom world gen and its a pain. quote:Either way you go, please god have keep inventory set to true. Losing your poo poo on death is awful and would be doubly awful if it means you no longer have the suit you need to get to the spot where you died. I actually had some ideas related to this. I agree the player shouldn't lose things that tare total pain to make on death, but just enabling keepInventory might be a missed chance. Let's say that in the beginning your inventory is not kept in case of death. However, some quests reward you with items you can use to permanently make inventory slots deathproof. You should get enough really early on to make your equipment slots permanent but the "unlockers" would be a good rewards for the player through the game. Jvie fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Oct 8, 2015 |
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Oct 8, 2015 00:07
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Magres posted:
I've never had anything but unfun frustration from item loss on death that just makes me either want to creative mode to get to my stuff or just stop playing if I died anywhere too difficult to get my stuff back from and couldn't creative mode it back. The best way to avoid danger from it is to micromanage your inventory in an annoying way and never carry anything valuable but the bare minimum which is just exasperating. Blightfall's reputation system was definitely a good idea.
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Oct 8, 2015 00:08
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twilight forest is a really good mod in general and has some good ideas going for it. i'm not sure if it's completed, though, as the last time i blazed through it i ran into a wall once i got past the thorny vines surrounding the gigantic castle. there was nothing to be found as far as i could tell.
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Oct 8, 2015 00:08
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Jvie posted:The main benchmark of progress is your Coolness So I'm guessing the main method of progress is wearing sunglasses and preforming sweet tricks on a skateboard?
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Oct 8, 2015 00:10
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:twilight forest is a really good mod in general and has some good ideas going for it. i'm not sure if it's completed, though, as the last time i blazed through it i ran into a wall once i got past the thorny vines surrounding the gigantic castle. there was nothing to be found as far as i could tell. I keep hearing about twilight forest - what's the best way to play it? by itself? Is there a modpack for the best experience?
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Oct 8, 2015 00:10
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VerdantSquire posted:So I'm guessing the main method of progress is wearing sunglasses and preforming sweet tricks on a skateboard? Pop your collar.
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Oct 8, 2015 00:14
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quote:So I'm guessing the main method of progress is wearing sunglasses and preforming sweet tricks on a skateboard? Sunglasses definetly are in. The terms Hotness and Coolness came from when I started to settle on heat being only dependent on the area you are in. If it was just heat it would seem weird if standing next to an open fire didn't increase it. So I decided to make it Hotness. Kind of like heat, but not quite. Something... else. The difference would get explored in the map's plot.
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Oct 8, 2015 00:18
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Jvie posted:That does sound interesting. Your idea would for there to be at least three variables. Heat of the area, the player's cooling capability and their current heat. The player's heat level would normalize towards the ambient temperature while the cooling reduces it by some number of units per tick. I'm good at arguing things  My idea certainly isn't the end-all-be-all and depending on what your priorities for the pack are, the static Hotness/Coolness route could absolutely be better. Diving into this some more, the tradeoff is, as you said, basically simplicity for freedom of choice. The reason I think it works here, where it wouldn't with other flavor, is that it's a hot/cold mechanic. Like with Blightfall if you had to worry about taint spore parts per million and your suits filitration capacity and have tanks of fresh air, it would mechanically be the exact same set of equations that decide how the player is doing, but it would feel way more complex. With a hot/cold mechanic you can use the fact that the player has real life experience with what to do when it's hot and cold out to shortcut your way past teaching the player a new system. Something else that would be interesting if you go the soft gating and pseudo-realistic heat route would be if everything's cooler at night, but at the cost of having to worry about mobs everywhere. And it'd again be an intuitive system to help shortcut past learning new systems in favor of playing with combinations of old systems (minecraft lighting, irl body heat management) to make something new and interesting. All that said, I am possibly overselling the simplicity and intuitiveness of the hot/cold idea I have because I'm a nuclear engineer by trade and do a lot of thermal hydraulics, so heat transfer stuff is pretty much my life. I don't think I am because even though it'd be a game mechanic that's driven by calculus, we learn at a pretty young age that hot things make other things hot, being too hot sucks, and really hot things make other things hot fast. Magres fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Oct 8, 2015 |
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Oct 8, 2015 00:25
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I remember when Hack Slash Mine first came out I thought the zone levels that increased as you traveled farther from spawn would be used in a lot of mods. I haven't seen the mechanic used since then though, and Twilight Forest is about the only other mod with a similar feature.
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Oct 8, 2015 00:34
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