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Octopode posted:It costs $45 plus applicable taxes for (theoretical) access to both the (proposed) MMO and single player games (which are likely getting combined into the MMO for technical reasons as happened with E:D), and everything else can be obtained through (probably extremely grindy) gameplay (in order to prevent people who dropped $18,000 on some ships to not get too rageful). Fixed, you're welcome.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:02
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 This is an astonishingly good post.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:03
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Supposedly the Austin studio is for minor stuff while the Imagnarium is for the EPIC poo poo like Gary Oldman being constipated in front of the UEE Senate. I recall someone on here stating the Austin studio was being rented out to other people and is apparently paying for itself, however nothing ever supported that. I'm sure if someone really went back and looked they'll find a significant number of wasted side projects that never really took off.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:04
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Incombibulator posted:I feel so dirty and ashamed. you should. You were given the perfect opportunity to air-horn the middle of Sandi's weird rear end speech and you blew it!
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Oct 11, 2015 18:04
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Theoretically earning a ship in game won't be heavily time intensive. Upgrading it will be. So yea, the price points are really high and don't warrant those levels of spending if your aim is to become a theoretical space admiral
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Oct 11, 2015 18:05
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Erenthal posted:Yeah, this just screams huge balance issue to me. Not going to lie, the fact that the backers are screaming "YEAH THOSE PAY TO WIN GAMES SUCK" while others of their number spend tens of thousands on ships is fantastic. Crow_Robot posted:Which is funny because the OG Star Citizen kickstarter page explicitly mentions not being pay to win. I think that it's far, far more likely that they'll meet every single one of their scope creeped features, including farming space weed and storing dead space hookers, than it is likely that they'd not find a way to go back on this. They probably don't even have to be sneaky about it, if the cheers for "no release date" are any indication, they'd just need to point to the "overwhelming desire of our backers to continue supporting us monetarily". Barring that, they'd probably just have something like ship skins or ship paint or space hats that can be bought for real money and "returned" for in-game currency, and then just turn a blind eye to the inevitable secondary market.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:06
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I'll say it once and you may quote me on this. Octopode is not very bright.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:07
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Crow_Robot posted:At least they can be obtained through gameplay. I've got a bridge and some prime swamp land to sell anyone that believes that these ships are going to be obtainable through regular gameplay. If this game ever comes out, and that's a big if, there's no way CIG is going to make their endless supply of cash cow .jpgs readily obtainable without $$$ being offered up. Their fanboys would be outraged that their "super special" $10,000 ships are available to the unwashed masses. Of course, the true believers are readily slurping up anything that CRoberts shits out, so maybe they will just accept it.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:07
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ryde posted:Playing devil's advocate: Can't get enough time at Imaginarium or its more expensive. Use your own mo-cap studio for the non-critical pieces, and the high-end studio for the Hollywood-level mo-cap. They shelled out for 2+ months of performance capture (way more involved than just mocap) shooting at Imaginarium, which - while i can't get an exact price here cause It Depends On Things™ - isn't going to leave you much change out of like $100k a day, so that's like $7 million right there before you've even paid the talent. So whatever they paid for their little mocap studio in Austin is pretty much just a rounding error at this point. nb: 2 months of performance capture is about what it took to do all of Avatar
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Oct 11, 2015 18:08
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Gerbil_Pen posted:Theoretically earning a ship in game won't be heavily time intensive. Upgrading it will be. This is a huge problem with the whole thing for me. Say CIG are able to do everything they promised, in budget and on time. You then have a game where people are dropping $15,000 on ships. How many hours of play time would be required to acquire a ship worth $15,000 to pre order? Someone is going to get hosed in that situation. Either it'll be the backer whales or it will be the normal players. I have no idea which CIG would choose to gently caress, because if they gently caress the whales they already have their money but who knows how much more they could squeeze out of them, but if they gently caress the players then their game will be a horrendously grindy failure. And this is the absolutely perfect scenario when it comes to the game's progress and release. The thing's rotten at the core.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:10
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It's fine. Those people just handed fifteen thousand dollars to CIG and got a ship in return as a gift. There's no way those people can be mad, they got free ships.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:11
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Incombibulator posted:I feel so dirty and ashamed. You should eat some cake.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:12
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Chalks posted:This is a huge problem with the whole thing for me. Say CIG are able to do everything they promised, in budget and on time. Exactly. But everything about the true believers in this project (Reddit/Brown Sea) just defies even the most basic elements of logic and reasoning. At this point, CRoberts could tell the whales that their ships are going to be available to the public for free and they would probably applaud it, even though they dropped tens of thousands on obtaining it - all because the vision.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:12
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:This is really good. I agree. poo poo is kinda hosed, and I'm having a hard time seeing how they're going to get a revenue once the game launches, because they've sucked the well completely dry. On the other hand, lots of mobile games literally make millions a day, so plenty of idiots out there. Especially if they make some sort stupid mini-game for your phone. Contrary to most goons (and in line with the article), I actually thought the sc 2.0 demo looked kinda alright, or at least showed more promise of an actual game, than anything else we've seen so far. It looked janky as hell, but I wasn't really expecting a fully polished, optimized build of anything at this point. If they had one, we would have seen alpha-builds ages ago. Does it look like something that's going to be here in 2 weeks or even 2 months, no, hell no, not at all. I did think it demonstrated pretty well that they've (more or less) successfully integrated the main components of the "game". Social, spaceship, fps within a reasonably large play area. It'll probably be actually playable, by that I mean similiar to arena-commander (ie. bugs and issues all over the place), in a year or something - if they don't run out of money before that. This also hinges on the assumption, that the framework we saw is actually a working framework, not some bullshit cobbled together by gaffa and chewing gum (nothing I saw leads me to believe the latter though). I also still don't really get why people are so surprised that it has massive delays, given CRs track-record and quadrupling (quindrupling in like 6 months) of the originally planned budget, and the following massive scope/feature additions, I don't think it's weird or surprising that they're 2 years behind schedule. If anything the problems with that is entirely CRs own fault, he is apparently incredibly bad at predicting deadlines or willfully stringing people along. If when they hit 40m (and could see no end in sight for the increasing revenue) had said, well, this is going to be delayed for probably 2 years, I think he'd be in a better spot now - but possibly people would have stopped pledging, so in a worse spot maybe, who knows. Someone mentioned the witcher 3 for 70m (much of that marketing), I'll counter with GTA V. A veteran, proven studio, with all mangement and development/art pipelines in full operation, a 260m budget and a 5 year development time (a 1000 man team) and it was a bug-ridden mess when it launched, meaningless comparisons are pretty meaningless. Revelation 2-13 fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Oct 11, 2015 |
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Oct 11, 2015 18:12
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Incombibulator posted:I feel so dirty and ashamed. Write up your experiences at the event please, don't skip any minor details.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:13
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A Neurotic Jew posted:you should. You were given the perfect opportunity to air-horn the middle of Sandi's weird rear end speech and you blew it! Speaking of which, has anyone done the 2015 Con Airhorn Highlights?
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Oct 11, 2015 18:14
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Furious Mittens posted:Exactly. But everything about the true believers in this project (Reddit/Brown Sea) just defies even the most basic elements of logic and reasoning. At this point, CRoberts could tell the whales that their ships are going to be available to the public for free and they would probably applaud it, even though they dropped tens of thousands on obtaining it - all because the vision. This is why LTI should have been such a big deal. Make it so that you could never lose a ship that you paid cash for, and make it super expensive to insure a ship you acquired in-game. Then gradually raise the price of the ships to reward the original backers. Then keep selling ships on the cash shop after the game is launched, still with LTI.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:15
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Prop Wash posted:Is it an issue, then, that their intent is for the engine to handle large-scale spaceship battles while still being able to individually model and render cheekbones As far as I know, most engines have the ability to alter levels of details and the cheek stuff shouldn't conflict with the spaceship battle stuff in a well-designed engine. My concern was more around stuff like how the FPS mechanics interact with the netcode -- if you're entirely focused on a local, single-player only experience then you may be making technical decisions that don't work well over a network. That being said, having a FPS plus space-sim plus persistent universe, plus everything else is a problem of scope. You have the immediate hit of simply having more poo poo to develop, assuming its not covered by your engine already. There's also the knock-on effects of making your codebase harder to learn and reason about, which makes refactoring and new features more difficult. Incremental development is great because it helps you both manage scope creep and your code quality at the same time. As you add in new features, you can do any necessary code clean-up to keep the scale manageable, and regression test against your already-working production product. Assuming your turn-over isn't poo poo, you will also have minted a bunch of senior developers that have a good understanding of the problem domain. They can help newer developers get up to speed and work on improving the design for the larger product.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:17
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Amazing new reveal at day 2 of Citcon, I'm surprised they didn't open with it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_6CZ2JaEuc
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Oct 11, 2015 18:19
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Amun Khonsu posted:I warned about this many months ago. No surprise there. gently caress that, I warned of this 2 goddamn years ago in a private convo with Toast. Guess he wanted to get a paying job at CIG rather than heed it.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:19
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Chocobo posted:Amazing new reveal at day 2 of Citcon, I'm surprised they didn't open with it: There's day 2? What?
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Oct 11, 2015 18:20
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ryde posted:As far as I know, most engines have the ability to alter levels of details and the cheek stuff shouldn't conflict with the spaceship battle stuff in a well-designed engine. My concern was more around stuff like how the FPS mechanics interact with the netcode -- if you're entirely focused on a local, single-player only experience then you may be making technical decisions that don't work well over a network. That being said, having a FPS plus space-sim plus persistent universe, plus everything else is a problem of scope. You have the immediate hit of simply having more poo poo to develop, assuming its not covered by your engine already. There's also the knock-on effects of making your codebase harder to learn and reason about, which makes refactoring and new features more difficult. They managed to break mouse aim in the FPS module while using CryEngine and cited it as a major reason for delay. Do not underestimate their ability to completely and utterly fail at basic levels.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:20
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Stanko-Prussian posted:They shelled out for 2+ months of performance capture (way more involved than just mocap) shooting at Imaginarium, which - while i can't get an exact price here cause It Depends On Things™ - isn't going to leave you much change out of like $100k a day, so that's like $7 million right there before you've even paid the talent. So whatever they paid for their little mocap studio in Austin is pretty much just a rounding error at this point. Anyone know the likelihood that they'd have to re-do the Hollywood mo-cap stuff? Since their basic engine isn't fully cooked, they're presumably designing missions, and subsequently the story, around things that they're not entirely sure they can accomplish in-game, right?
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Oct 11, 2015 18:21
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It's a week long event.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:21
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CrazyLoon posted:gently caress that, I warned of this 2 goddamn years ago in a private convo with Toast. Guess he wanted to get a paying job at CIG rather than heed it. heh, its hard to believe someone of Toast's temperament and intelligence is wound up in CIG drama, but yeah.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:23
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ryde posted:As far as I know, most engines have the ability to alter levels of details and the cheek stuff shouldn't conflict with the spaceship battle stuff in a well-designed engine. My concern was more around stuff like how the FPS mechanics interact with the netcode -- if you're entirely focused on a local, single-player only experience then you may be making technical decisions that don't work well over a network. That being said, having a FPS plus space-sim plus persistent universe, plus everything else is a problem of scope. You have the immediate hit of simply having more poo poo to develop, assuming its not covered by your engine already. There's also the knock-on effects of making your codebase harder to learn and reason about, which makes refactoring and new features more difficult. they couldnt even get their fps edit: who the gently caress is toast?
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Oct 11, 2015 18:23
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Gerbil_Pen posted:Theoretically earning a ship in game won't be heavily time intensive. Upgrading it will be. At this point even that is changing. They are now redoing everything as modular. The old tree was to buy a base ship with base "parts." You could then upgrade the weapons/engines/shields/etc however if you felt inclined could "tweak" and mod these parts to perform a specific way and sell your version of the part. That's why they initially sold the $10 work bench I believe. And if anyone believes for a second the $25-$100 upgrade shop for modules will end once this atrocity is eventually squeezed out, they're delusional.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:25
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stop theorycrafting for a game that doesn't exist you dumbs
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Oct 11, 2015 18:26
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What I think most likely will happen is that we do get a game that's released, but due to terrible management, as well as time and budget constraints, we get a terrible, janky, unplayable mess that was clearly rushed to market that makes X4: Rebirth seem like a smooth release. The patches that come are too little, too late, and the game falls into obscurity. Not as exciting as the project imploding on itself, but there's nothing stopping them from taking their unfinished "alpha" and shipping it as is. This is, of course, running on the assumption that the money lasts long enough to slap together an alpha, since we don't even have that yet.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:27
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A Fancy 400 lbs posted:They managed to break mouse aim in the FPS module while using CryEngine and cited it as a major reason for delay. Do not underestimate their ability to completely and utterly fail at basic levels. Agrajag posted:they couldnt even get their fps Yeah, they're obviously screwing up the development process, but I was just responding to the idea that dropping FPS as a standalone thing was a stalling tactic. Its actually walking back a decision that I view as a very bad one. There still remains a host of problems in the development of this game, and one good decision isn't going to make it less of a poo poo-show.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:30
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Wait did CIG actually ban someone from the forums for their post history and claim that it was always toxic/hostile about the game when in reality they've only been critical of CIG as of late?
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Oct 11, 2015 18:31
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Chilli on Vindicator for dinner tonight, looking forward to it.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:32
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Unfunny Poster posted:Wait did CIG actually ban someone from the forums for an arbitrary reason because they weren't towing the party line? you state that as if that hasn't been a common theme for a long time now
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Oct 11, 2015 18:32
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Revelation 2-13 posted:I agree. What the gently caress? Did you really just compare this poo poo to Grand Theft Auto 5?
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Oct 11, 2015 18:32
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Capntastic posted:I'm still catching up on the thread but lemme add some details:
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Oct 11, 2015 18:33
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Tokit posted:What the gently caress? Yes, that's EXACTLY what I did, you cracked this case wide open.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:35
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Revelation 2-13 posted:Yes, that's EXACTLY what I did, you cracked this case wide open. 
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Oct 11, 2015 18:36
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Tokit posted:What the gently caress? What was broken about gta v at launch?
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Oct 11, 2015 18:36
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I've requested a refund for my Aurora.DiHK posted:I am requesting this refund because after 3 years of development there has been very little overall progress that I can discern. In fact, since I bought into this "game" in April of 2014 the progress on the space flight game has been dismal. Whole games have been funded and completed in that time. If the vision and scope of this game is so great that you can't make the it, then you need to reign in your features, put out a playable game you can make, and iterate on that. I think I hit all the highlights without being too goony about it. edit: when I quote myself it comes up yellow, i'm into this meta.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:36
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Capntastic posted:I'm still catching up on the thread but lemme add some details: Confirming this is basically what happened. When Ben was hit up by a video game news site about this poo poo, he ignored/handwaved the issues off and when this stuff was mentioned in an article said it was just the site looking for clickbait.
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Oct 11, 2015 18:37
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