|
Nothing wrong with watching the currently-airing show either. It even paces itself for you so you don't have to binge and burn out.
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 17:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 08:53 |
|
|
LORD OF BUTT posted:Seriously, what is with all the hilarious character names in Gundam? The characters with relatively normal names are way outnumbered by the ones with absolute gibberish names or bizarre double entendres or both (looking at you Jamitov Hymen). Have you seen what some people name their kids these days? Imagine how much worse it will be in the future
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 17:44
|
|
|
Booourns posted:Have you seen what some people name their kids these days? Imagine how much worse it will be in the future At least it won't be Brayden Ray, Jayden Noah, Aiden Jose, Kaiden Shiden, Makayla Bow, Hayden Kotobushi, Aimee Mass, and Cayden Zabi.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 17:54
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:The argument of "there wasn't a giant instant shift in humanity, ergo everyone who has any form of optimism is wrong" is really silly and ignores that nobody expected people to change overnight. Amuro has a semi-famous speech where he says people can't change overnight and he doesn't expect it. You ignored quite an important part of that line of argument, which was that it wasn't just in the short term that nothing changed, but in the long term too. Shows like G-Reco and Turn-A demonstrate that even after literally thousands of years, nothing has changed. The Earth is still being hosed up by humans and technology, control of it is still the center of a lot of conflict, newtypes never stop just being mere soldiers in wars and so on. I would in fact say that both Amuro and Char are wrong. Amuro is wrong because humans don't really change or learn any of the stuff he's arguing about Char with in the long term and Char is wrong because both Turn-A and G-Reco show that living in space is kind of lovely and Earth is a much nicer place on the whole and people want to return to it. People also didn't evolve in to newtypes by living in space. Or if you go by Turn-A's supplemental material, they did, then left the Solar System entirely and a newtype society was so focused on war it produced the Turn-X. Which is no better regardless. I'm also not against optimism. In fact, I much prefer optimistic shows on the whole. Turn-A is one of my favorite shows at least partly because it's optimistic. Nor do I even have a problem with Char's Counterattack for having an optimistic ending. I just think it's kind of silly to act like the end of the show had some great effect, because it ultimately had none. Nothing to do with it is ever mentioned again, and both F91 and Victory might as well take place in a new setting for all the difference it makes. Which comes back around to a problem I have with the early UC stuff as a whole, which is that Zeon never amounts to anything and Char's Counterattack basically ends with a big reset button. The various wars never had any noticeable effect on the society of UC, so once you lose the name Zeon, there might as well be a big reset switch pressed. Especially since by the time of F91, there's no named characters left around to give any kind of sense of continuity. It's part of why I wish we'd gotten Zeta Part II instead of ZZ and Char's Counterattack. It at least ended with Earth being left behind by the majority and colonization moving out to Mars. It gives some kind of lasting effect for early UC that can be played off for later shows. As is, there's really nothing, which is kind of sad. This would all be fine if Char's Counterattack was the final UC entry, because you can extrapolate out from the ending as you wish at that point, but it isn't, and the other entries suffer because of how Zeon has no legacy. As is, Char's Counterattack has a great ending, but I'm not going to pretend it had any effect on the franchise or setting just because it was great. Lemon Curdistan posted:Cosmo Babylonia's ideology is basically the Zabis' stance on power and nothing else, i.e. without any of economic or ecological policies that were the core of Deikun's Zeonism if you read all the supplemental material. The problem is that the "main" Gundam shows don't actually talk about those policies all that much, so Zeon is usually reduced to "independence from Earth, fascism, warcrimes, 19th century aristocracy," and Cosmo Babylonia fits at least three of those. I don't want to quote the whole thing for the sake of space, but thank you for answering this far better than I ever could. Kanos posted:CCA represented the effective death of Zeon as a serious military entity capable of challenging the Federation. After Char's Neo Zeon was broken in CCA, Zeon/Axis as a unified government and military force was destroyed forever; the only successors to Neo Zeon are scattered terrorist/guerilla groups like the Sleeves and the few crazy assholes who went and formed Mars Zeon. The late UC villains like Cosmo Babylonia, the Jupiter Empire, the Crossbone Vanguard, and Zanscare have absolutely nothing to do with Zeon. In fact, the legacy of CCA in the Universal Century is that after CCA happened large scale war between the colonies and Earth pretty much stopped entirely. War only returned in force when assholes from Jupiter and the Asteroid Belt came back and tried to conquer everything. Why did it represent the effective death of Zeon though? Nothing that happens in the film actually represents a reason that Zeon sympathizers around the Earthsphere should give up on Zeon. A handful of remaining Zeon pilots are given some reason to do so, but the cause it represents is never publicly defeated such that we could reasonably expect people who weren't there but take issue with the Federation would go "Yea, Zeon isn't the answer". And if Degwin, Haman and Char can all rile up armies and sides in the past to support them, there's no reason some future Zeon poo poo-stirrer can't do the same. Which is why I prefer the fact Unicorn ends with a speech decrying both Zeon's methods and the Zabis and their image as a central point for resistance. It's not as iconic, it's not even as emotive or well executed, but I prefer it regardless. tsob fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Oct 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 17:56
|
|
|
tsob posted:You ignored quite an important part of that line of argument, which was that it wasn't just in the short term that nothing changed, but in the long term too. Shows like G-Reco and Turn-A demonstrate that even after literally thousands of years, nothing has changed. Did you not watch G-Reco? There had been peace for a thousand years, and in the end humanity rejected war again.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 17:58
|
|
|
Booourns posted:Have you seen what some people name their kids these days? Imagine how much worse it will be in the future I'm pretty sure nobody would ever give their child a name that reads as "four vaginas" Like, yeah, it's an alias, but the fact that everybody just accepts it is hilarious.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 18:05
|
|
|
I think the worst MSG79 dumb name for me is Bright Noa, who is constantly addressed as "Captain Bright," which suggests his last name should be Bright and his first name should be one letter off from being an actual English name.The REAL Goobusters posted:Thanks for the help guys! Gundam always seemed so daunting to watch because there's so much so I'll definitely start with these recs. I'm going to go ahead and say that unless you really want to find out how the whole thing started or you have a high tolerance for 70s anime, I don't think there's much point in watching the Gundam 0079 films as someone who is only just getting into Gundam, as the animation is pretty bad. Otherwise, go by the four recommendations in the OP: Iron-Blooded Orphans (separate continuity and so far fantastic), War in the Pocket (stands on its own as a good show and doesn't require prior knowledge of Universal Century stuff), Turn-A (separate continuity and by far the best long format Gundam show) and Build Fighters (a pretty good shonen battle show about people fighting with Gundam model kits in the "real" world, doesn't require any prior knowledge of Gundam to just look at the pretty fights, but you do get a lot of mileage out of being a Gundam fan before watching it). If you do decide that you want to get into Universal Century Gundam, then yeah, go for the 0079 films as your starting point rather than the TV series. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Oct 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 18:09
|
|
|
tsob posted:You ignored quite an important part of that line of argument, which was that it wasn't just in the short term that nothing changed, but in the long term too. Shows like G-Reco and Turn-A demonstrate that even after literally thousands of years, nothing has changed. For one, it's absolutely pointless to hold other shows in a franchise against it, especially ones created afterwards. The themes of a story do not suddenly get retroactively 'ruined' because someone published a lovely sidestory to sell a new model kit. And even beyond that, those shows do the opposite of what you've said. Both G-Reco and Turn-A demonstrate societies that are significant less warlike than those that came before. Turn-A in particular is a minor skirmish in the scheme of things. The idea that shows that have conflict in them demonstrate that the idea is wrong is silly because it doesn't contradict it at all. It just means that if peace comes, it is a peace that won't have mobile suits and won't have war and so won't be a very interesting show for people looking for those things. It doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 18:09
|
|
|
boom boom boom posted:Did you not watch G-Reco? There had been peace for a thousand years, and in the end humanity rejected war again. They mostly had peace on Earth because the planet was so hosed ecologically that everyone was more concerned with where to get the next meal than who was running the show. Hence the cannibalism. Which was precipitated according to the show by hundreds of years of conflict during the UC. And which was followed by wars between the various power blocs that did spring up, like Ameria, Gondwana and so on. They even mention Ameria having been at war in the show and that that's why Klim is more experienced at combat than the Capital Army dudes he defeats in the first few episodes. We've never had any indication that I'm aware of that Towasanga or Venus Globe was completely peaceful for all of that time. ImpAtom posted:For one, it's absolutely pointless to hold other shows in a franchise against it, especially ones created afterwards. The themes of a story do not suddenly get retroactively 'ruined' because someone published a lovely sidestory to sell a new model kit. And even beyond that, those shows do the opposite of what you've said. Both G-Reco and Turn-A demonstrate societies that are significant less warlike than those that came before. Turn-A in particular is a minor skirmish in the scheme of things. The idea that shows that have conflict in them demonstrate that the idea is wrong is silly because it doesn't contradict it at all. It just means that if peace comes, it is a peace that won't have mobile suits and won't have war and so won't be a very interesting show for people looking for those things. It doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Never said it ruined any of the shows, only that it made it silly to complain about how Unicorn had no effect when Char's Counterattack itself had none either. Unless you want to count 31 years of peace. In which case, Unicorn had the effect of 25 years of peace. Yea, it's not as great, but it's basically the same thing. tsob fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Oct 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 18:09
|
|
|
tsob posted:Why did it represent the effective death of Zeon though? Nothing that happens in the film actually represents a reason that Zeon sympathizers around the Earthsphere should give up on Zeon. A handful of remaining Zeon pilots are given some reason to do so, but the cause it represents is never publicly defeated such that we could reasonably expect people who take issue with the Federation would go "Yea, Zeon isn't the answer". And if Degwin, Haman and Char can all rile up armies and sides in the past to support them, there's no reason some future Zeon poo poo-stirrer can't do the same. Which is why I prefer the fact Unicorn ends with a speech decrying both Zeon's methods and the Zabis and their image as a central point for resistance. It's not as iconic, it's not even as emotive or well executed, but I prefer it regardless. Well, for starters, Neo Zeon was utterly crushed militarily despite being headed up by The Red Comet Himself(and a Zeon led by Char has been the dream of a lot of Zeon supporters since the Zabis bit the dust, as shown by how some people were willing to follow Frontal). That's a pretty good reason! After Neo Zeon's complete defeat in CCA, Neo Zeon ceased to exist as an independent government power. The only stirrings of Zeon for the remainder of recorded time that we're aware of(so until UC 150+) are random tiny groups of terrorists before they fade completely away and are never mentioned again after Mars Zeon gets stomped. This suggests that the vast majority of people who were willing to actually pick up a gun and fight in the name of Zeon's ideology are either dead, have changed their minds, or have decided that it's not worth dying for.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 18:10
|
|
|
tsob posted:They mostly had peace on Earth because the planet was so hosed ecologically that everyone was more concerned with where to get the next meal than who was running the show. Hence the cannibalism. Which was precipitated according to the show by hundreds of years of conflict during the UC. And which was followed by wars between the various power blocs that did spring up, like Ameria, Gondwana and so on. They even mention Ameria having been at war in the show and that that's why Klim is more experienced at combat than the Capital Army dudes he defeats in the first few episodes. We've never had any indication they weren't either.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 18:16
|
|
|
tsob posted:They mostly had peace on Earth because the planet was so hosed ecologically that everyone was more concerned with where to get the next meal than who was running the show. Hence the cannibalism. Which was precipitated according to the show by hundreds of years of conflict during the UC. And which was followed by wars between the various power blocs that did spring up, like Ameria, Gondwana and so on. They even mention Ameria having been at war in the show and that that's why Klim is more experienced at combat than the Capital Army dudes he defeats in the first few episodes. The cannibalism was hundreds of yeas beforehand. And "wars" between Ameria and Gondwan were just stealing the resources spheres from each other, like the pirate stuff in the first episode, and had only started recently. That's why even the "experienced" Klim Nick was completely inexperienced. And there's zero reason to believe that Towasanga and Venus Globe had wars during that time period.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 18:20
|
|
|
Why follow Char? Johnny Ridden had a way higher kill count. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 18:21
|
|
|
Kanos posted:Well, for starters, Neo Zeon was utterly crushed militarily despite being headed up by The Red Comet Himself(and a Zeon led by Char has been the dream of a lot of Zeon supporters since the Zabis bit the dust, as shown by how some people were willing to follow Frontal). That's a pretty good reason! After Neo Zeon's complete defeat in CCA, Neo Zeon ceased to exist as an independent government power. The only stirrings of Zeon for the remainder of recorded time that we're aware of(so until UC 150+) are random tiny groups of terrorists before they fade completely away and are never mentioned again after Mars Zeon gets stomped. This suggests that the vast majority of people who were willing to actually pick up a gun and fight in the name of Zeon's ideology are either dead, have changed their minds, or have decided that it's not worth dying for. At the end of the day, the highlighted part is what it comes down to, because I don't think the death or defeat of Char is enough to destroy Zeon as an ideal in the setting. Zeon rose up in the absence of Char at least twice more in setting even after the Zabis (Axis Zeon and Neo-Zeon), and there's no reason in my opinion why it couldn't rise up again despite his death or defeat. All the other stuff about small terrorist groups was true before Unicorn, it's true after Unicorn, it's just given another reason by Unicorn. boom boom boom posted:The cannibalism was hundreds of yeas beforehand. And "wars" between Ameria and Gondwan were just stealing the resources spheres from each other, like the pirate stuff in the first episode, and had only started recently. That's why even the "experienced" Klim Nick was completely inexperienced. The completely inexperienced Klim certainly seemed pretty damned experienced, at least compared to the actually inexperienced Capital Guard/Army for being someone completely inexperienced in that case. Especially for a side that had lot of spaceships, mobile suits and soldiers and yet apparently no battles. That also doesn't discount that the show specifies the reason SU-Cordism and all it's restrictions came to prominence in the first place because UC had had wars for hundreds of years.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 18:25
|
|
|
closeted republican posted:Why follow Char? Johnny Ridden had a way higher kill count. Johnny Ridden isn't an insanely charismatic and manipulative madman, though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 18:25
|
|
|
closeted republican posted:Why follow Char? Johnny Ridden had a way higher kill count. Johhny's stupidly high killcount will never fail to annoy me.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 18:30
|
|
|
tsob posted:At the end of the day, the highlighted part is what it comes down to, because I don't think the death or defeat of Char is enough to destroy Zeon as an ideal in the setting. Zeon rose up in the absence of Char at least twice more in setting even after the Zabis (Axis Zeon and Neo-Zeon), and there's no reason in my opinion why it couldn't rise up again despite his death or defeat. All the other stuff about small terrorist groups was true before Unicorn, it's true after Unicorn, it's just given another reason by Unicorn. G-reco and Turn A completely prove Amuro's point. The end of CCA killed any momentum Zeon had in the short term. The first 2 neo-zeon movements were legitimate governments, after CCA all that remains of Zeon is small terrorist cells. In the long term Amuro was proven right, as the people of G-reco and Turn A avoided war. Amuro never said people would change immediately, he said they would eventually, and eventually they did.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 18:36
|
|
|
Monaghan posted:Johhny's stupidly high killcount will never fail to annoy me. Don't forget the random side story Federation dude that managed to get even more kills than Amuro. Oh OYW sidestories. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 18:39
|
|
|
Monaghan posted:Johhny's stupidly high killcount will never fail to annoy me. Not me. Guy went after Balls, not battleships and the White Devil. He's pretty much the exact same as those Nazi aces on the Eastern Front who racked up dozens (or even hundreds) of kills against ancient, crappy Russian biplanes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 18:45
|
|
|
I want to know Anavel Cat's killcount after Konpei.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 18:49
|
|
|
closeted republican posted:Don't forget the random side story Federation dude that managed to get even more kills than Amuro. That honestly makes sense. Amuro was tearing through aces and prototypes more than mooks
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 18:53
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:That honestly makes sense. Amuro was tearing through aces and prototypes more than mooks Somebody had to clean up all the Oggos and left over Zaku Is.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 19:17
|
|
|
Amuro and Char have the problem of fighting each other, thus severely reducing their kill counts in the long run. In quality, Amuro probably killed enough aces and mobile armors that would've made the war last a lot longer, because who else is going through all that Elmeth bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 19:24
|
|
|
who the hell's johnny ridden?
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 20:15
|
|
|
Ernie Muppari posted:who the hell's johnny ridden? Oldtype Zeon ace pilot from the MSV stuff who has an absurd kill count: http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Johnny_Ridden
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 20:40
|
|
|
Ernie Muppari posted:who the hell's johnny ridden? He's an ace best known for basically being made to sell a custom model kit. (The joke is that his Zaku is more famous than he is.) He is also red (but a darker shade than Char) and is dubbed the Crimson Lightning. Another in-joke is that people mistake him for Char and attribute his kills to the more famous Red Comet sometimes. In-character he's kind of a generic dude whose only meaningful character trait was being Kycilia Zabi's secret love interest.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 20:44
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:He's an ace best known for basically being made to sell a custom model kit. (The joke is that his Zaku is more famous than he is.) He is also red (but a darker shade than Char) and is dubbed the Crimson Lightning. Another in-joke is that people mistake him for Char and attribute his kills to the more famous Red Comet sometimes. Don't forgot his fellow character made to sell more model kits in arms, Shin Matsunaga. Everyone forgets about Shin.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 21:52
|
|
|
closeted republican posted:Don't forgot his fellow character made to sell more model kits in arms, Shin Matsunaga. Everyone forgets about Shin. Shin Matsunaga is more boring. He's the same thing as Johnny Ridden except his suit is white and instead of being Kyilia's love interest he is Dozel's
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 21:57
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Shin Matsunaga is more boring. He's the same thing as Johnny Ridden except his suit is white and instead of being Kyilia's love interest he is Dozel's That's way better, to me.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 23:05
|
|
|
it's also a joke that even johnny ridden doesn't remember who johnny ridden is but i guess we just proved that wrong
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 23:09
|
|
|
muike posted:That's way better, to me. You'd think it would be way better but Matsunaga has the personality of a brick.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 23:16
|
|
|
I've always had zero interest in either of them as characters so I will defend Shin Matsunaga and subs over dubs to the death.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 23:40
|
|
|
closeted republican posted:Don't forgot his fellow character made to sell more model kits in arms, Shin Matsunaga. Everyone forgets about Shin. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 23:49
|
|
|
Zedd posted:His Zaku is much cooler so he's alright in my book. The MG Johnny Ridden Zaku II 1.0 has a much better color scheme than Shin's Zaku II. The regular and MG 2.0 colors are cool too and are still better than Shin's, but not as good as the MG Zaku 1.0.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 23:54
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:You'd think it would be way better but Matsunaga has the personality of a brick. he piloted that cool zeta in that one gundam evolve short, that was neat.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2015 23:56
|
|
|
I remember there was a manga about Ridden where he "forgot" his memories, and everyone's like "You're the legendary Johnny Ridden!" "Nope, sorry. Wrong guy."
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 00:03
|
|
|
I still want a MG or RG or PG of Rambal Ral's Zaku I, which is by default the coolest Zaku.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 00:05
|
|
|
Lemon Curdistan posted:I still want a MG or RG or PG of Rambal Ral's Zaku I, which is by default the coolest Zaku. https://www.hlj.com/product/BAN77168/Gun
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 00:31
|
|
|
I actually have this on my backlog.  I love the Zaku I and a blue one with two shoulder pads and a bigass heat hawk is really cool in my book.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 00:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 08:53 |
|
|
Yeah, but that's from 2000, we need a 2.0. Anyway, my volume 3 of The Origin finally showed up after every other volume arrived, so I'm up way too late reading it. I also started The Plot to Assassinate Gihren Zabi today, and that's also pretty good.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 01:48
|
|