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Lycus posted:You're posting from another timeline, aren't you? Maybe I misunderstood what he was saying but he was asking how the timeline got changed. I assumed that he meant how it was changed in the timeline of the show. JFK was assassinated in the shows timeline that's the big event that turns everything. The Grasshopper Lies Heavy timeline, at least in the book, isn't our timeline but another alternate timeline. It includes for instance Italy betraying the Axis, and the UK become a racist super power whom we have a Cold War with.
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Dec 20, 2015 01:55
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Last I checked JFK was assassinated in the timeline I live in.
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Dec 20, 2015 01:57
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Regy Rusty posted:Last I checked JFK was assassinated in the timeline I live in. Oh son of a bitch. That's a hell of a brain fart. I meant FDR not JFK.  Thanks. Lol.
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Dec 20, 2015 02:01
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No, I'm wondering how the parallel universes exist with each other and the exact moment the divergence happened. I understand the show explains where there are divergences but it doesn't explain how they occurred if you get my meaning.
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Dec 20, 2015 02:37
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Yorkshire Tea posted:No, I'm wondering how the parallel universes exist with each other and the exact moment the divergence happened. I understand the show explains where there are divergences but it doesn't explain how they occurred if you get my meaning. My guess it's like what shows like SG1 do with parallel universes and there's not a divergence point so to speak but just parallel universes. However given how s1 ended Im wondering whether the implication is that hitler collects the tapes too to learn who his enemies might be. As to how the tapes came into existence and how they travel between universes I have no idea.
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Dec 20, 2015 03:17
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JetsGuy posted:My guess it's like what shows like SG1 do with parallel universes and there's not a divergence point so to speak but just parallel universes. So yeah, my disappointment is that the tapes being shown was what hooked me and by the end we had literally no advancement on that aspect of the plot. Instead I got to watch love triangle bullshit where one member of the triangle is a literal Nazi.
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Dec 20, 2015 03:36
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"I hope Hitler wins and I hope he is fine and doesn't get killed. Dimension travelling Hitler is the most interesting character on the show." - Things I though I would never have to say in my life
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Dec 20, 2015 15:19
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Guys, please remember to use the quantum tag if you're posting from an alternate timeline.
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Dec 20, 2015 15:44
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Yorkshire Tea posted:So yeah, my disappointment is that the tapes being shown was what hooked me and by the end we had literally no advancement on that aspect of the plot. Instead I got to watch love triangle bullshit where one member of the triangle is a literal Nazi. In regard to the divergent timeline, parallel universe talk, this show is not nearly as well written as CONTINUUM so if there is a Season 2 and the show goes there then I expect it to be total poo poo. I'd prefer they just continue down the alternate history path with occasional allusions to sci-fi parallel universes and dimension defying black and white movies. edit: maybe you guys already knew this but I just now saw it, Amazon is doing a 10 episode Season 2. Please don't gently caress this up Amazon! radical meme fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Dec 20, 2015 |
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Dec 20, 2015 19:33
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Just finished the season. I'm kinda confused by the spoiler policy so I'll just tag everything. Knowing Philip K. Dick, I was gunning for an alternate universe from the beginning, so that wasn't too much of a surprise. I was, however, very surprised when Togami switched timelines just by holding onto Juliana's amulet really hard. Given how little of the real story the show has explained so far, I was not expecting them to give it to us outright. If that leads to a "Togami wanders the non-occupied American west coast trying to figure out what the gently caress just happened" main plot thread I will be so happy. I really liked the show overall, but I do share some people's criticisms. Mainly, Joe's character is super loving confused. The writers did not think him through very well. I wouldn't have minded the Jules x Joe x Frank triangle if it was kept in the background, but it was a little more intrusive than I hoped. Also, hinging the ending of their plot thread on that felt rather dumb. In the end, nobody won. One thing I absolutely loved about the show was the music. Absolutely fantastic soundtrack overall. Many of the main tracks have this ethereal quality to them with subtle, magical tones that sell a uniquely unsettling atmosphere in which everything feels just a little bit stranger than it should. The track that plays when Frank is deciding whether to shoot the crown prince was one of the highlights of the show for me. I'm looking forwards to a second season, but I really hope they don't drag the supernatural side of the mystery on for too long because the show has been pacing the background plot very slowly so far.
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Dec 22, 2015 03:43
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I hope they put OGF Smith's back-story in Season 2. How does an american who must have been a teenager during WW2 end up super-good buddies with high-ranking german nazis then put in charge of the whole show in america afterwards?
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Dec 26, 2015 18:40
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Also did anyone recognize the blonde guy who was executed alongside Frank in the filmstrip?
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Dec 26, 2015 18:50
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waitwhatno posted:"I hope Hitler wins and I hope he is fine and doesn't get killed. Dimension travelling Hitler is the most interesting character on the show." I wasn't surprised to see him in the condition he was.
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Dec 27, 2015 04:57
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I just finished the season and it's... Well, it's not bad? It's not the greatest as some of the character motivations, notably Jules/Frank/Joe, seem to swerve all over the place, drag on, or make little sense beyond extending drama without ever being in real danger. I get that Jules and Joe are in love, or think they might be in love, that's fine. The constant 'No, stop, we need to do X instead of Y!' 'Oh, poo poo, Y's happened, we can't go forward with X, we need to do Z!' back-and-forth got old by episode 8 and many characters are guilty of doing it. It also seemed very strange that the Kempeitai would allow Jules to get a job at the Trade Ministry. Why allow anyone who was suspected of some pretty serious poo poo to get any position there or at any government facility? My preferred Season 2 would start with (speculation but some spoilers) Jules being immediately shot in the head by Lem because she's a terrible, selfish 'operative' who's going to get them all killed. Her body is tied to some cinder blocks and dumped at the docks. Joe is never seen again. Frank goes about his life, no longer being a doormat for Jules. The rest of the season focuses on the adventures of Timelord Tagomi and OGF Smith.
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Dec 27, 2015 08:04
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BottledBodhisvata posted:I never had any doubt. Yeah people who were saying "if" it got renewed are ridiculous. I seriously despised this show and even I agree that it's the second or third best series that amazon has greenlit. Transparent is better, Alpha house is probably better, but amazon's first party offerings are largely a wasteland. Anything that most people can stomach watching from start to finish is going to get renewed.
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Dec 27, 2015 22:01
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ViggyNash posted:I was, however, very surprised when Togami switched timelines just by holding onto Juliana's amulet really hard. Well he did spend three full episodes staring at it for no apparent reason so you know. One of the subplots was that Frank has so much emo man-pain that he imbues stuff he makes with wu, and so that is likely responsible for what happened, and also why Togami kept staring at the pendant. It's dumb as gently caress and filled with a sort of messed up orientalism that was more socially acceptable back when dick wrote this sucker, but I guess we're just gonna put it in the TV show why not. withak posted:I hope they put OGF Smith's back-story in Season 2. How does an american who must have been a teenager during WW2 end up super-good buddies with high-ranking german nazis then put in charge of the whole show in america afterwards? It was explained to some extent, when you take it with the historical context. There were a lot of people in 1930s US that were super agreeable to nazism. That generally evaporated when we went to war with them, but there's little reason to think that with our army and navy defeated and the nazis offering a peaceful occupation that those sympathies wouldn't resurface. The show makes reference to the fact after that offer was made, there was a civil war between those agreeable to nazism and everyone else, and Smith fought in that on the nazi side (Joe's father fought on the American one).
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Dec 27, 2015 22:09
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So it got picked up for a second season! Wonder where they are gonna go with this. The source book is tapped out so all original from here on.
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Dec 27, 2015 22:19
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Season 2 will be original material? Why oh why didn't the show kill off Joe at the end? Going into Season 2 could've been so much better.
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Dec 27, 2015 22:23
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I liked it, but I had some issues, especially around the ending. The twist that there are other films showing OTHER possible events should have come earlier, especially since it's a big deal in the trailer. The ending twist with the real universe should have been hinted at earlier. Why not hint at the two universes 'bleeding' into each other, with little things being out of place? . I wish they'd have played up the importance of the newsreels more, it's like the show forgets about them for ages at a time and then goes 'oh, main plot point, right'. I really liked it, the inconclusive ending and pacing issues aside. I'm hoping season 2 picks up the pace a little. I get the feeling they were going for a "leave the audience with a  MIND BLOWN WHAT WHAT ending", but ended up with a "what...?". Twelve Monkeys did the season finale "everything you know is turned on its head, there's the new status quo, suprise!" season finale really well, The Man in the High Castle didn't pull it off.
OldMemes fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Dec 28, 2015 |
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Dec 28, 2015 01:01
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waitwhatno posted:"I hope Hitler wins and I hope he is fine and doesn't get killed. Dimension travelling Hitler is the most interesting character on the show." Yeah this show has made me feel deep sympathy for an SS officer and made me want to know more about what that Hitler guy is getting up to. It's extremely bizarre to explain to people.
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Dec 28, 2015 01:22
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30.5 Days posted:It was explained to some extent, when you take it with the historical context. There were a lot of people in 1930s US that were super agreeable to nazism. That generally evaporated when we went to war with them, but there's little reason to think that with our army and navy defeated and the nazis offering a peaceful occupation that those sympathies wouldn't resurface. The show makes reference to the fact after that offer was made, there was a civil war between those agreeable to nazism and everyone else, and Smith fought in that on the nazi side (Joe's father fought on the American one). Not just nazism, but stuff like eugenics was considered "progressive", and was actually popular in academia. Having gas chambers running for the "defective" was actually proposed in the US. The mother of legal birth control has a nice rant about how the "feeble minded" should be sterilized. So something like having Smith's son killed because he was defective wasn't that much of a stretch from something seriously discussed in the US before the Nazis made everyone realize how bad an idea eugenics was.
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Dec 28, 2015 16:44
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The idea of sterilizing people with mental and physical disabilities was actually from the US. It was carried out in a number of states. We like to forget that, like today, when many American's talk of freedom, its just for them and people like them. Everyone else can either change or die.
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Dec 29, 2015 00:46
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twistedmentat posted:The idea of sterilizing people with mental and physical disabilities was actually from the US. It was carried out in a number of states. We like to forget that, like today, when many American's talk of freedom, its just for them and people like them. Everyone else can either change or die. Go back to Spartan times. If you're not a perfect healthy baby you get thrown off a cliff.
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Dec 29, 2015 01:18
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twistedmentat posted:The idea of sterilizing people with mental and physical disabilities was actually from the US. It was carried out in a number of states. We like to forget that, like today, when many American's talk of freedom, its just for them and people like them. Everyone else can either change or die. Maybe the US just wanted to create Khan?
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Dec 29, 2015 01:29
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While Joe is as boring as everyone says I have to disagree about Juliana,she's one of my favourite characters on the show.
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Dec 29, 2015 08:55
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She wouldn't be too bad but Joe ruins her character with his shittiness by association.
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Dec 29, 2015 10:19
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Holyshoot posted:Go back to Spartan times. If you're not a perfect healthy baby you get thrown off a cliff. That was Sparta.
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Dec 29, 2015 12:37
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30.5 Days posted:Well he did spend three full episodes staring at it for no apparent reason so you know. One of the subplots was that Frank has so much emo man-pain that he imbues stuff he makes with wu, and so that is likely responsible for what happened, and also why Togami kept staring at the pendant. It's dumb as gently caress and filled with a sort of messed up orientalism that was more socially acceptable back when dick wrote this sucker, but I guess we're just gonna put it in the TV show why not. Was that really what we were supposed to understand?  If so, that was really badly done. I just thought either the wife was bullshitting because she felt bad for him or because "japan people are dumb".
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Dec 29, 2015 16:02
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EDIT: The "wu" thing makes sense since Asian cultures remain fairly superstitious about poo poo like this. It was likely her being a weirdo and her husband being all too happy to cater to her weird whims. She happened to be right, though, so perhaps she's a little psychic. Dick would like to have characters who were a little psychic.JetsGuy posted:The show does briefly mention things that happened to change the timeline. JFK was assassinated. In the book, this event leads to (backstory spoilers for the book)America not getting through the Depression. We remain isolationist through the next three presidents. We get hosed hard at Pearl Harbor this time because our significantly smaller fleet is pretty much all there (as opposed to being largely in the Pacific). In addition we don't have the ability to help Europe and the Nazis are able to easily handle the Allies. The Slavs are exterminated. Heisenberg Device or the Heisenberg Bomb, they say it's full name a few times in the show. Also lol at people thinking the Japanese are gonna seek peace. The madness that drove them to war remains intact and it was clear the military and generals were dead set on bombing the gently caress out of Nazitown as soon as possible. BottledBodhisvata fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Dec 29, 2015 |
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Dec 29, 2015 19:57
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mobby_6kl posted:She wouldn't be too bad but Joe ruins her character with his shittiness by association. The huge majority of her poo poo is her stupid stupid decisions centering around being in love with him and not wanting to admit it. joe betrayed himself to be a nazi several times but ~ I don't believe the tape~. I just don't know her motivations anymore. Does she believe them or not? I'm just guessing it's all love for Joe based on the horrendous comments made by the lead of the show earlier. It's really not making me excited for season two because I really think the writers enjoy "exploring" the "two different reactions to the world" of Joe and Frank. That means Jules will be there to make more dumb decisions.
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Dec 30, 2015 08:01
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I just finished episode 8 with a friend and we will probably hatewatch the last two tomorrow. I didn't know there'd be this much talking, frankly. And poo poo like "my sister is alive, oh wait of course she isn't" that somehow burns up an entire episode with go-nowhere plotting. I wish they would just kill off some of these characters already. Instead we have the show threatening to bring back dead characters in a show where all the live ones seem to have infinite plot armor. Show almost immediately turned to poo poo when they returned from the Neutral Zone, which is not a thing that makes any sense in this or any other timeline, by the way. Now it's just really good actors spinning poo poo into gold, with Rufus Sewell especially holding the whole thing together. There's also a million little plot contrivances, like inviting your secret Nazi agent to your 4th of July party, but if I were that upset at plot contrivances I wouldn't watch any TV at all.
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Dec 30, 2015 08:37
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beejay posted:Question about 1x10 Pretty sure it's Wegener. I don't know why Juliana recognizes him, I don't remember their characters ever crossing paths.
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Jan 4, 2016 04:04
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:I just finished episode 8 with a friend and we will probably hatewatch the last two tomorrow. I didn't know there'd be this much talking, frankly. And poo poo like "my sister is alive, oh wait of course she isn't" that somehow burns up an entire episode with go-nowhere plotting. I wish they would just kill off some of these characters already. Instead we have the show threatening to bring back dead characters in a show where all the live ones seem to have infinite plot armor. The Nazi 4th of July is one of the best episodes for the sheer spectacle. Seeing white picket fence Americana with Swastikas everywhere is surreal as gently caress. The last two episodes are a lot better than the preceding ones, if that's any help.
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Jan 4, 2016 04:23
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I was pleased to see Rufus Sewell getting cast as a villain again
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Jan 4, 2016 04:54
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etalian posted:I was pleased to see Rufus Sewell getting cast as a villain again Kind of a villain. I suspect you're supposed to see the warhawk splinter Nazi faction as *more* villain. Which kind of makes him a de facto hero, along with Old Man Hitler. Which is the most hosed up and hilarious part of the show, by far.
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Jan 4, 2016 12:05
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Holy poo poo I do not care at all about Joe, Frank, or Juliana. Is there an alternate universe where the show is about everyone but them? Because literally all of the other characters - including non-speaking extras - were more compelling than they were.
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Jan 5, 2016 00:42
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moths posted:Holy poo poo I do not care at all about Joe, Frank, or Juliana. Is there an alternate universe where the show is about everyone but them? Because literally all of the other characters - including non-speaking extras - were more compelling than they were. Bad news to u and everyone - I posted it earlier this thread but the writers literally see Jules as their commentary on how to react to this world so gear up for a whole lot more of all three.
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Jan 5, 2016 00:55
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It's frustrating as gently caress, since there's a really cool story happening, but instead we're stuck watching these idiots getting interesting people killed. I wonder if revealing Joe's allegiance in the pilot was a mistake, since from that point on the audience was picking up on every clue she missed. And there were a lot of times when she'd desperately cling to Joe with the flimsiest of pretense. "Sorry whoever just saved my life, I'm throwing you under the bus for Joe because he saved my life." So I guess that's how we're supposed to react to that world.
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Jan 5, 2016 01:17
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moths posted:Holy poo poo I do not care at all about Joe, Frank, or Juliana. Is there an alternate universe where the show is about everyone but them? Because literally all of the other characters - including non-speaking extras - were more compelling than they were. For some reason the secondary characters seem more interesting and also more authentic to the time period.
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Jan 5, 2016 01:52
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moths posted:So I guess that's how we're supposed to react to that world. I largely agree. I'm phone posting so it's klunky for me to grab it but I post a huge TLDR about it with the source from the writers. I've annoyed the thread enough anyway and I'm sure people don't want to see it again. Lol.
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Jan 5, 2016 03:08
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