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Cyrano4747 posted:As an aside, is it even realistic to think they might cube the cars? I was always under the impression that they would just resell them to markets that don't have emissions controls. Africa, Asia, etc. gently caress, even Europe if they can get the emissions under their bar but not pass the stricter American standards. More than likely the EPA will demand that VW create an actual fix, but the EPA will 'exempt' cars already purchased until either they have the repair applied (at VWs expense) or will remain exempt. I sincerely doubt they will go with a mass scrapping scheme. At worst, EPA may ban affected vehicles from being resold by dealers.
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Jan 7, 2016 17:30
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Reselling in more pollution-friendly markets is a possibility, but it would be really bad PR, which they really don't need, obviously. And yeah, I could see the EPA saying that they have to do both - buyback (VW's preference) or fix (maybe consumer's preference but more expensive than buyback).
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Jan 7, 2016 17:47
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How does a buyback generally work if that's what happens? Do they just give bluebook value? I bought my 2013 TDI with the intention of driving it for 5 or 6 years after it was paid off. I only owe 10k on it right now because I've been making large payments so I want to understand how screwed I'm going to be.
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Jan 7, 2016 17:57
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BraveUlysses posted:The emissions testing isn't lovely, please stop being a sycophant for this stupid loving company. Heh, obviously if it was as easy to cheat the system, the testing is in fact flawed. Sure are a lot of people that really want VW to burn at the stake like they're the new Hitler around here.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:03
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HatfulOfHollow posted:How does a buyback generally work if that's what happens? Do they just give bluebook value? I bought my 2013 TDI with the intention of driving it for 5 or 6 years after it was paid off. I only owe 10k on it right now because I've been making large payments so I want to understand how screwed I'm going to be. Same boat I'm in.   veedubfreak posted:Heh, obviously if it was as easy to cheat the system, the testing is in fact flawed. SO the fact that they discovered a way to cheat the system means that the cheating was OK? At the end of the day they saw environmental regulations that would impact their profit margin and glorious quest to surpass the Japanese as #1 automaker and went out of their way to bypass them. How you thing that is anything other than bad is loving beyond me. And yeah, a lot of people are pissed at VW. It's funny how dropping $20k+ into something based on a certain set of expectations and then finding out the manufacturer outright lied to you and your thing is now worth far less and stands a good chance of getting shittier performance after it's fixed will make you angry.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:06
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veedubfreak posted:Heh, obviously if it was as easy to cheat the system, the testing is in fact flawed. Holy poo poo dude, you're either a terrible troll or the most ridiculous white-knighting corporate fanboy I've ever encountered. Get your head out of your rear end and stop being a braindead apologist. All of your posts read like you start with them "hurrr" and end them with drooling. Just stop. VW doesn't need any help being a "new Hitler" because they've got "original Hitler" pretty well covered, lest we forget
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Jan 7, 2016 18:08
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totalnewbie posted:Because they're only doing a partial buy-back and talk about rebuilding part of the exhaust system, I suspect that the buybacks are for cars with an LNT system and the rebuild is to increase the urea tank size. From what I understand, the reason they couldn't just not-cheat is that the AdBlue tank was too small and it's required that it lasts from service-to-service. I'm not sure that that explanation makes sense, but that's what I heard through the grapevine. I think the EPA requires the urea tank to last between scheduled maintenance intervals on passenger cars because they don't trust normal drivers to fill them. VW certainly doesn't want people to fill their own what with positioning the fill port in the trunk and the comical amounts they sell adblue for. If VW is significantly underinjecting getting the required mileage could require a significantly larger tank than the 4-5 gallon ones they currently have mounted. If VW does end up scrapping some part of the fleet instead of retrofitting my money would be on the mk5 models getting the axe. Pricing would be a complete clusterfuck though.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:09
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DesperateDan posted:also worth checking with a VAG dealer to see if you are eligible for, or a previous owner had the packs and cable done on a recall- mine were, but I have had to get fresh coils anyway. I had the recall done and I believe they did replace the coil packs at that point, but that was years ago.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:11
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Cyrano4747 posted:Same boat I'm in. Which is perfectly fine. But everyone and their mother is losing their mind about what -might- happen. A lot more people that don't even own the car are going even nuttier. Personally I managed to get out of my TDI before this whole thing even came to light and got into a better car that after all of this finally comes out in the wash will be much more in demand. I just get a giggle out of how angry people that aren't even involved with the whole situation seem to be getting. E: and yes, if the test was so easy to cheat, I'm not in the least bit surprised they did. It's what corporations do, they find ways around the law then if and when they get caught, still end up usually ahead by paying the fines.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:11
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HatfulOfHollow posted:VW doesn't need any help being a "new Hitler" because they've got "original Hitler" pretty well covered, lest we forget Really not appropriate, regardless.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:20
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veedubfreak posted:I just get a giggle out of how angry people that aren't even involved with the whole situation seem to be getting. I will agree that there is a lot of shrill bullshit that is just amusing, but it's not like you have to own an affected car to get pissed about this. Environmental regulations are kind of there for the common good, and it's understandable to think a company that is willfully violating them is a piece of poo poo. Even if I didn't own one I still enjoy not having smoggy cities.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:29
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CommieGIR posted:Really not appropriate, regardless. Do you think maybe VW would let me swap my 2010 TDI for one of those? Probably better for the environment as well.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:01
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veedubfreak posted:E: and yes, if the test was so easy to cheat, I'm not in the least bit surprised they did. It's what corporations do, they find ways around the law then if and when they get caught, still end up usually ahead by paying the fines. There's a difference between a loophole in a law and plain ignoring/circumventing a law illegally. A pretty large difference actually, one is legal, the other is not and thus makes you criminally liable.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:03
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veedubfreak posted:Heh, obviously if it was as easy to cheat the system, the testing is in fact flawed. It wasn't easy, it required years of deceit and manipulation by engineers at the test facilities to keep up the charade. I'm irritated because my vehicle lost 5-6k in equity in the past few months because of these dumb fucks. I never would have bought the TDI if I had known this was going to happen. The reflash that VW put out last year to try to address this issue with increased regen cycles is also annoying as gently caress, now that I'm driving the car more during the winter. but hey don't stop apologizing
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Jan 7, 2016 19:05
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Hashtag Banterzone posted:Do you think maybe VW would let me swap my 2010 TDI for one of those? Oldest I can find on a quick Google is '54 for $13k and $19k respectively.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:15
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By the way, here are the slides from this year's CCC wherein someone reverse engineered his own TDI's ECU. https://events.ccc.de/congress/2015/Fahrplan/system/event_attachments/attachments/000/002/812/original/32C3_-_Dieselgate_FINAL_slides.pdf The first half talks about how OEMs work, management structure, and some of the details of the investigation. The second half is more technical and talks about the reverse engineering of a TDI ECU he bought on ebay. Understandably, he didn't want to actually tear about his own personal vehicle. Starts on page 39. The moneyshot didn't get converted to PDF, though, so here it is:  You can see how urea injection goes down to .6ml/km as soon as the vehicle leaves the NEDC driving cycle. Shifty Pony posted:I think the EPA requires the urea tank to last between scheduled maintenance intervals on passenger cars because they don't trust normal drivers to fill them. VW certainly doesn't want people to fill their own what with positioning the fill port in the trunk and the comical amounts they sell adblue for. If VW is significantly underinjecting getting the required mileage could require a significantly larger tank than the 4-5 gallon ones they currently have mounted. From the presentation: quote:Averaged consumption on my car, as calculated by ECU, is ~0.6l/1000km. Expected for full efficiency would be around 2.5l/1000km. At 2.5L/1000 km and a 5 gallon tank (and approx. 4L/gal and 1.6 km/mi), you'd need to get your TDI serviced every 5000 miles for AdBlue.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:42
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Mr-Spain posted:What model? I know on my brother's Jeep its a smaller filler neck next to the main one for fuel. Its a 2015 passat but there isn't anything next to the fuel neck. I assumed it was something they filled up when I got my 20k service.
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Jan 7, 2016 20:07
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I apologize for nothing. I own one of the best hatchbacks available in the US and sold my TDI before values tanked, so I'm just watching from the sidelines. For a little levity, crossposting this from the pyf funny pictures. 
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Jan 7, 2016 20:07
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MarcusSA posted:Its a 2015 passat but there isn't anything next to the fuel neck. I assumed it was something they filled up when I got my 20k service. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h9hWlvg6sM
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Jan 7, 2016 20:44
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That's awesome thanks! I had. I idea that was there.
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Jan 7, 2016 22:53
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HatfulOfHollow posted:How does a buyback generally work if that's what happens? Do they just give bluebook value? I bought my 2013 TDI with the intention of driving it for 5 or 6 years after it was paid off. I only owe 10k on it right now because I've been making large payments so I want to understand how screwed I'm going to be. same for me, except I owe ~$16k still. I wasn't in any hurry to pay it off since we got the 0% financing deal from VW Credit. BraveUlysses posted:It wasn't easy, it required years of deceit and manipulation by engineers at the test facilities to keep up the charade. I am mostly annoyed by this since right before the news broke, I was thinking about swapping my TDI out for an electric car, since we moved and I work from home, so I normally only drive maybe 10-15 miles a day. Now we are stuck with the car, and might take a hit if they do a buyback. One of the main reasons I bought the loving thing is because of the resale value. Before all this bullshit, I would have been able to get close to $25k for mine used, since its a 2013 with ~19k miles. Hell at this point I would take a e-golf, but for some reason they won't sell me one since I live in Washington.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:20
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Negromancer posted:same for me, except I owe ~$16k still. I wasn't in any hurry to pay it off since we got the 0% financing deal from VW Credit. I'm in the same boat. 2013, 50k miles bout it for 2 reasons, one my commute is around 30 miles each way (now, used to be 50); and two the resale value was going to help me get out of the underwater loan on my Tiguan (that I rolled over when I traded it in on the Jetta). I'm wondering what will happen. Hopefully the buyback covers most of my loan, rolling over the "truck equity" from the Tiguan killed me (Tiguan had huge issues around 100k miles). Still enjoying the decent fuel economy though. Wish they would announce what they are going to do so I can decide if I'm going to have to replace the springs/struts in the JSW that are dead (MD/DC roads are rough).
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Jan 7, 2016 23:25
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well, dont worry too much, the buyback would need to account for the value of the car before they hosed up the resale prices.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:25
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BraveUlysses posted:well, dont worry too much, the buyback would need to account for the value of the car before they hosed up the resale prices. Yea, as long as they take that into account I should be fine. Is it bad that I want an i3 for an around town car? They look stupid, but seem to be the best electric for the price, and you can lease them super cheap.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:38
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There's a rumor on yahoo news that VW will buy back US TDIs
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Jan 8, 2016 01:54
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gently caress that I'm keeping mine
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Jan 8, 2016 03:30
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CommieGIR posted:There's a rumor on yahoo news that VW will buy back US TDIs More than the 1/5th? But yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what VW wants to do (again,  )
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Jan 8, 2016 05:05
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Having an intermittent issue on my 2007 S4 where the EPC and traction lights will come on putting the car in limp mode. Reconnecting the throttle body wiring harness fixes it a week or longer (sometimes months). My guess is that the wiring on the connector is loose but all the wires seem intact. Throttle body itself was already replaced by the previous owner so it has no visible buildup on it. Cleaning the connector with contact cleaner and compressed air also seems to help, but it's hard to say for sure since the issue is intermittent. The car is JHM tuned and drives perfectly otherwise. Vagcom shows: 17579 - Angle Sensor 2 for Throttle Actuator (G188) Implausible Signal P1171 - 008 - Intermittent Freeze Frame: Fault Status: 00101000 Fault Priority: 0 Fault Frequency: 5 Reset counter: 255 Mileage: 71010 km Time Indication: 0 Freeze Frame: RPM: 1687 /min Load: 20.8% Speed: 54 km/h Temperature: 54.0 C Temperature 24.0 C Absolute Pres.: 960.0 mbar Voltage 13.843 V Readiness: 0000 0001 I'm planning on replacing the wiring plug on the throttle body and rewiring it. Anyone have any thoughts? Thanks.
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Jan 8, 2016 17:12
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CommieGIR posted:There's a rumor on yahoo news that VW will buy back US TDIs That sucks, i just want the 3k to get the malone tune and rawtek deletes.
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Jan 8, 2016 17:53
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willroc7 posted:Having an intermittent issue on my 2007 S4 where the EPC and traction lights will come on putting the car in limp mode. Reconnecting the throttle body wiring harness fixes it a week or longer (sometimes months). My guess is that the wiring on the connector is loose but all the wires seem intact. Throttle body itself was already replaced by the previous owner so it has no visible buildup on it. Cleaning the connector with contact cleaner and compressed air also seems to help, but it's hard to say for sure since the issue is intermittent. The car is JHM tuned and drives perfectly otherwise. Vagcom shows: I was having intermittent EPC issues that got worse and worse with my 09 CC's 2.0tsi, not sure if our motors have the same bits in common but maybe. Looking back at the car's service history, the throttle body had already been replaced once in it's lifetime. Since it was out of warranty, I was going to attack my issues in the order of cheapest and easiest to more complicated and expensive: 1) re-pin harness with gold plated connectors 2) clean any gunk out of throttle body 3) replace throttle body entirely. #1 instantly turned the engine from a shaking shuddering non-idling persistant EPC limp mode mess into running smooth as chocolate. This calm only lasted a few months though before the EPC/limp mode popped up again twice, but both times it went away after a dozen engine on-off cycles. Fortunately I was able to dump the car back at the dealer due to unrelated problems with paperwork, so I never did get the chance to dissect the throttle body.
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Jan 8, 2016 19:15
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NoWake posted:I was having intermittent EPC issues that got worse and worse with my 09 CC's 2.0tsi, not sure if our motors have the same bits in common but maybe. Looking back at the car's service history, the throttle body had already been replaced once in it's lifetime. willroc7 fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 19:19
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Now VW isn't cooperating with US investigations. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/01/us-attorneys-general-say-volkswagen-has-refused-to-turn-over-internal-documents/
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Jan 9, 2016 02:42
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To be fair to VW they're bound by German law and there's a fair chance that they're being put in the position of either breaking German laws or appeasing the US investigators.
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Jan 9, 2016 03:00
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It depends on if VW is specifically prohibited from sharing that information or if the laws just provide protection from them being compelled to hand it over. If it's the later, it's running completely counter to the "maximum transparency" claim.
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Jan 9, 2016 03:15
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CommieGIR posted:There's a rumor on yahoo news that VW will buy back US TDIs Bring it on. Give me more than I still owe and a nice discount on another model right around the time the Sportwagen Alltrack hits the market. Outside of that, good luck getting me in another VW. Also, I finally got 50mpg indicated for an extended period of time today! While doing 45mph on I70 coming back from Denver while a Colorado State Trooper played roadblock on icy/snowy roads.
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Jan 9, 2016 03:16
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So I was working on replacing that crankshaft position sensor and one of my neighbors offered to help me. He's a master tech for another car company and a VW owner. By that point I was almost done but the last bit of getting the new sensor clipped into the bracket was a total bitch and I'm glad he helped me with that. I made a new friend who lives in my building and he even has a VAG-COM. The car runs great again, the new sensor has totally fixed my hard starting issues. Cost me about $45 and a few hours of my time.
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Jan 10, 2016 13:50
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I scheduled my 80k service at a nearby dealer that had pretty good reviews so I could use my $500 GC. Dropped it off late at night Friday for the work to be done Saturday. Called at 2:30PM to check in since I hadn't heard anything - the service department had already closed and I could only talk to sales who were useless. I probably should've called Saturday morning, but right now I have no idea if they did the work or not and they don't open until 7AM Monday. This is definitely worse than any emissions scandal.
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Jan 10, 2016 14:26
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CommieGIR posted:There's a rumor on yahoo news that VW will buy back US TDIs In the early stages of building a "fix", there was a buy back option discussed as part of a proposed 3 tier replace and/or repair program but that option has been (according to the last discussion I had with technical support) scrapped. Now, the newest info circulating (unsubstantiated currently) is the older, DPF equipped but non-adblue TDIs owners will be offered a replacement non-tdi, base model Jetta/Golf brand new. CJAA-equipped TDI vehicles will get an adblue retrofit and newer TDIs already equipped with adblue will get a newer flash update. Again, these are only rumors around corporate and among the dealers so take it with a grain of salt.
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Jan 10, 2016 18:18
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So you are saying that the current rumor is 2009 CBEA owners will be told "new car!" which presumably nearly everyone would take,, 2010-2014 CJAA will get the option of new car or AdBlue retrofit, and 2015 will get an ECU reflash? While we're speculating I wonder which model they would go with with the MK5 cars. Trading a 2010 TDi for an S would be quite the downgrade in features but still going from a 2010 to a 2016 car with full warranty isn't anything to sneeze at. I presume they would then retrofit the lower mileage traded CJAAs for resale to recoup some of that money.
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Jan 10, 2016 19:08
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I wanna know what is a good way to use this dealer card. I have $410 left. I mean, two new tires sounded good, but I'm sure that $350 would be better spent on anything else where I can use it. Maybe if I'm buying parts to resell or something. Anyone have a good recommendation?
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Jan 10, 2016 19:17
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