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Bad Seafood posted:I see a lot of things wrong with horse guy and snake girl whose names I can't remember. Her hands turn into snakes. Pretty cool.
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Jan 14, 2016 08:24
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There was no indication that Netero wanted them to become furries, and his favorite was obviously Pariston who also declined to permanently alter himself into a freak. I guess some of them probably strengthened their nen by doing so, but not all of them had even vaguely animal-themed nen to begin with. What the heck do dogs have to do with being a doctor?
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Jan 14, 2016 08:30
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Netero "Liked" Pariston because he knew Pariston would oppose him at every turn.
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Jan 14, 2016 08:32
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Bad Seafood posted:Netero "Liked" Pariston because he knew Pariston would oppose him at every turn. Yeah, meaning he liked them each based on their own merits and not how far they went with body modifications. Netero was a pretty cool dude!
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Jan 14, 2016 08:34
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Serious Frolicking posted:There was no indication that Netero wanted them to become furries, and his favorite was obviously Pariston who also declined to permanently alter himself into a freak. Netero like Pariston because he knew Anime Paris Hilton would gently caress with him at every turn, making everything 'fun' and 'challenging' because Netero was weird like that. Cheadle is one of the major outliers, I think, because even Gin points out that being a dog doesn't suit her. She did it purely out of respect to the chairman. The only animal-themed nen powers that we've seen among the Zodiac are the Monkey (traitor) and Snake.
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Jan 14, 2016 08:35
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Serious Frolicking posted:Yeah, meaning he liked them each based on their own merits and not how far they went with body modifications. Netero was a pretty cool dude! Yeah, he never forced them to do it, but they did it anyways as a sign of respect. Again, I don't find it weird because all of the Zodiacs had a great amount of respect for Netero, even Gin and Pariston.
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Jan 14, 2016 08:36
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Serious Frolicking posted:Yeah, meaning he liked them each based on their own merits and not how far they went with body modifications. Netero was a pretty cool dude! One of those little touches that really brings it home how beloved he was.
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Jan 14, 2016 08:37
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You can demonstrate respect without becoming a furry, especially if the person you are demonstrating respect to is indifferent to the whole furry thing. They were probably just competing to show which of them respected Netero more and the whole thing got out of hand. The zodiacs were already his trusted subordinates, and they probably should have figured out that Netero mostly wanted people to be true to themselves, get strong and do neat stuff with that strength. They put him on too much of a pedestal, which Netero obviously wasn't into.
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Jan 14, 2016 08:43
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Serious Frolicking posted:Yeah, meaning he liked them each based on their own merits and not how far they went with body modifications. Netero was a pretty cool dude! also a terrible father
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Jan 14, 2016 09:12
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He left us for the great Beyond.
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Jan 14, 2016 09:15
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Bad Seafood posted:He left us for the great Beyond. Heh he he h eh ehe he he he he hehehe heheh.
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Jan 14, 2016 09:16
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Jose posted:also a terrible father I don't see how not wanting your son to inadvertently destroy mankind by causing a disaster of biblical proportions is being a bad a father.
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Jan 14, 2016 09:17
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Having anything to do with the dark continent seems like an incredibly bad idea, but pushing on regardless is a very human thing to do.
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Jan 14, 2016 09:28
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Every time I read the Dark Continent chapters I get so sad because I really want to see loving everything. I want to know what powers the princes are gonna have. One of them is a loving baby. It'll probably be one of the strongest.
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Jan 14, 2016 09:43
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Netero like Pariston because he knew Anime Paris Hilton would gently caress with him at every turn, making everything 'fun' and 'challenging' because Netero was weird like that. The Rooster or whatever also had bird-powers, presumably. At least, she used birds to send her messages out that one time, and given that this is a world with the Internet I assume it wasn't because she needs carrier pigeons. And yeah, Netero thought Pariston was entertaining, which Pariston kind of hated and thus tried harder and harder to gently caress with him. But he also enjoyed it in a way. At least, if I recall correctly; it's been a while since I read the series and all. Also, Cheadle is my favorite Zodiac and I hope she doesn't die horribly on the Dark Continent; I am expecting to see some of the Zodiacs die to show off how ridiculously dangerous the place is, though I suppose that's not a guarantee. After all, Tsezguerra survived Greed Island and during the Ant saga the only strong hunters to die were Kite and Netero, so the series doesn't really feel a need to kill off people who are established as strong to raise the stakes. Weak side characters are cannon fodder though; Pariston's flunkies better watch their backs. ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Every time I read the Dark Continent chapters I get so sad because I really want to see loving everything. I want to know what powers the princes are gonna have. One of them is a loving baby. It'll probably be one of the strongest. Yeah, the Dark Continent arc was shaping up to be so good, between Kurapika and Leorio being the protagonists, the weird Zodiac intrigue and whatnot, the stuff with Ging and Pariston, the potential antagonists, everything with the Dark Continent itself... I really, really want this series to pick back up.
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Jan 14, 2016 11:42
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Netero like Pariston because he knew Anime Paris Hilton would gently caress with him at every turn, making everything 'fun' and 'challenging' because Netero was weird like that. Read this as "gently caress him at every turn"
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Jan 14, 2016 14:31
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Roland Jones posted:The Rooster or whatever also had bird-powers, presumably. At least, she used birds to send her messages out that one time, and given that this is a world with the Internet I assume it wasn't because she needs carrier pigeons. Actually, I expect that Zodiac to have a higher chance of losing a member than Pariston's crew because as Netero said, the Dark Continent isn't really about being good at fighting. It's about surviving against nature itself. It's not about winning or losing, it's about not dying. Granted, there will probably still be a lot of fights among the people themselves (all the intrigue, betrayals, the war between the princes, Kurapika's quest, etc.), and being good at fighting generally (but not always) equals being good at surviving, but I feel like the specialists gathered for the purpose of venturing into the Dark Continent might fare better than some of the most powerful hunters in the world. On the other hand, the Zodiacs are also specialized in a lot of fields required to survive into the continent (Cheadle being a doctor who hunts incurable diseases, Rooster is a plant hunter which is undoubtedly useful, Snake knows about poison, Ram is a ranger, Tiger is a treasure hunter accustomed to ruins, etc. etc.) so I figure the ones who are fighting specialists might be the ones to die. Roland Jones posted:Yeah, the Dark Continent arc was shaping up to be so good, between Kurapika and Leorio being the protagonists, the weird Zodiac intrigue and whatnot, the stuff with Ging and Pariston, the potential antagonists, everything with the Dark Continent itself... Same, bro, same.
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Jan 14, 2016 14:47
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The dark continent has lots of ineffable poo poo that can kill you (and all of humanity), but it probably also has lots of conventional poo poo that can kill you too. So, having dudes that can fight certainly couldn't hurt.
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Jan 14, 2016 14:50
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Roland Jones posted:And yeah, Netero thought Pariston was entertaining, which Pariston kind of hated and thus tried harder and harder to gently caress with him. But he also enjoyed it in a way. At least, if I recall correctly; it's been a while since I read the series and all. I don't think any part of Pariston hated Netero. He seemed genuinely sad that he had died, which was the big reveal at the end of the Election arc, and even Ging thought that Pariston was the Zodiac being the most respectful towards Netero's wishes. It seems they both enjoyed their little game.
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Jan 14, 2016 14:53
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Actually, I expect that Zodiac to have a higher chance of losing a member than Pariston's crew because as Netero said, the Dark Continent isn't really about being good at fighting. It's about surviving against nature itself. It's not about winning or losing, it's about not dying. Yeah, if I had to bet on one or more Zodiacs dying, I'd put Botobai (the Dragon) at the top of the list; he's established at the top of them in power and experience but is also an unknown quantity otherwise (compared to Ginta's 90, Kanzai's 85, and Piyon's 77 (Sheep, Tiger, and Rabbit respectively) scores according to Hisoka) and has had like no attention really, so he's the perfect person to Worf out. I almost mentioned him in the post you quoted but wound up erasing it. Saiyu's another strong possibility, being the traitor; he'll probably get into an awful position as part of being a double agent, and while I don't think the other Zodiacs would kill him, it may not end well for him. Anyway, yeah, the Dark Continent is more than just fighting, but the Zodiacs are well-off there as well, as you say. At the least, I don't think there's going to be many things they can't handle that Pariston's people can, excluding things Ging deals with personally; something like, say, a disease that Cheadle, triple-star hunter (something that's been established as a massive, massive deal) specializing in diseases, can't deal with but some random schmuck Pariston hired cures easily would be really odd. ...Now I'm wondering who the weak points in the Zodiacs will be. Cheadle is almost definitely one of the best in her area, Botobai is too but I still feel like he's going to get Worfed, Kurapika is Kurapika, etc. Leorio might be a liability but he's also on the med team acting as backup for Cheadle. I have a feeling that Kanzai might be one of the ones to gently caress up, but there's little backing that up admittedly. Clarste posted:I don't think any part of Pariston hated Netero. He seemed genuinely sad that he had died, which was the big reveal at the end of the Election arc, and even Ging thought that Pariston was the Zodiac being the most respectful towards Netero's wishes. It seems they both enjoyed their little game. I looked it up, and Pariston admits that Netero's taunting and how easily he dealt with Pariston's attempts to hinder him irritated him. He also, however, genuinely enjoyed their game and misses Netero deeply. These are not mutually exclusive, by any means.
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Jan 14, 2016 16:57
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So I was thinking about Phinks' Ripper Cyclotron (his ability where he winds up his arm to make a strong punch) since he is my favorite Ryodan member. That ability seems like it could be extremely good, depending upon how exactly it works. The big factor determining whether his ability is "awesome" versus just "a somewhat altered version of Gon's rock" is how long his arm holds the charge. If it holds the charge for more than a few seconds, he can wind up immediately before a fight and get one "free" super powerful punch, which would be extremely useful (imagine it paired up with Meleoron's God's Accomplice). If it only holds it for a couple seconds, then it's both worse and better than Gon's rock (though mostly worse). On one hand, Ripper Cyclotron probably has the potential for significantly more raw power and (even if it only holds for a second or two) he doesn't have to use it instantly after winding up (whereas Gon seems like he has to immediately "use it or lose it" with Rock), but on the other it takes more time to prep (if he does more than a couple rotations) than Gon's Rock, which already takes a while to use. I would guess that the exchange for it having the potential to be more powerful is that it probably takes more time to do the rotations necessary to equal Rock's power (relative to his own strength, that is). Otherwise, its usage is pretty much the exact same; the risk of a technique that has a long prep time is the same, and he can also psyche people out with it like Gon did against Knuckle. It seems kind of boring on the surface, but could have some complexity to its usage. edit: Random question - why does Feitan use a sword? I was under the impression that swords are basically useless once you've mastered Nen, since you could still block it if you defended with enough aura or cut/stab things using your hands. And if they actually do confer a significant benefit (for example greater range), why does virtually no one use them? ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Actually, I expect that Zodiac to have a higher chance of losing a member than Pariston's crew because as Netero said, the Dark Continent isn't really about being good at fighting. It's about surviving against nature itself. It's not about winning or losing, it's about not dying. The Zodiac aren't all (or even mostly) about fighting, though. Isn't Cheadle literally the best doctor in the world or something? And you become a 2/3 star hunter by accomplishing great things, not by beating up strong dudes (unless the great thing in question directly involves beating up a strong dude). Regarding the Zodiacs being like furries, I don't think it's really that bad; only a couple look remotely like what you would normally associate with a furry (Cheadle and Kanzaki come to mind). The rest either just look like people with animal-themed clothing or hosed up faces that look like an animal's (horse dude). Speaking of Cheadle, if her nose/mouth is a body mod how does that even work? It looks like her jaw actually protrudes like a dog's and her nose is just a bump. I have trouble thinking that she completely mutilated her face out of respect for the chairman. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 18:05
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Ytlaya posted:
She did just that, which is why the hole body mod thing is so hosed up.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:07
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Serious Frolicking posted:She did just that, which is why the hole body mod thing is so hosed up. Whoa, where does it mention this? I haven't read much after the election arc (been trying to hold off), so I'm guessing it's there? Maybe Cheadle is just such an absurdly good doctor/surgeon that she can easily do ridiculous plastic surgery like that.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:08
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Ytlaya posted:edit: Random question - why does Feitan use a sword? I was under the impression that swords are basically useless once you've mastered Nen, since you could still block it if you defended with enough aura or cut/stab things using your hands. And if they actually do confer a significant benefit (for example greater range), why does virtually no one use them? You can apply nen to objects. That was one of the things that Gon and Killua learned in Greed Island. The Horse Zodiac also carries around a sword. As does Nobunaga, another member of the Ryodan. And Chrollo himself carries around a really high-quality poisoned knife that was capable of cutting the skin of Silver, one of the best assassins in the world. In Feitan's case, he was up against a Chimera Ant that possessed far superior defense when compared to a human. And a relatively high-ranking one at that. Ytlaya posted:The Zodiac aren't all (or even mostly) about fighting, though. Isn't Cheadle literally the best doctor in the world or something? And you become a 2/3 star hunter by accomplishing great things, not by beating up strong dudes (unless the great thing in question directly involves beating up a strong dude). Aren't the Zodiacs dudes who are known for being sparring partners with Netero? Lemme look it up.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:11
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Yeah, they were sparring partners for Netero.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:13
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Granted, Cheadle is said to lack strength. That being said, she's still someone who sparred with Netero, putting her above the majority of hunters. NOTE: The translation on the bottom right panel is wrong - Pariston is saying that Cheadle lacks strength and Leorio lacks experience, not that they have them.  Roland Jones posted:Yeah, if I had to bet on one or more Zodiacs dying, I'd put Botobai (the Dragon) at the top of the list; he's established at the top of them in power and experience but is also an unknown quantity otherwise (compared to Ginta's 90, Kanzai's 85, and Piyon's 77 (Sheep, Tiger, and Rabbit respectively) scores according to Hisoka) and has had like no attention really, so he's the perfect person to Worf out. I almost mentioned him in the post you quoted but wound up erasing it. Saiyu's another strong possibility, being the traitor; he'll probably get into an awful position as part of being a double agent, and while I don't think the other Zodiacs would kill him, it may not end well for him. Also echoing the sentiment that Dragon is most likely to die.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:17
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Ytlaya posted:Whoa, where does it mention this? I haven't read much after the election arc (been trying to hold off), so I'm guessing it's there? She isn't wearing a mask. The zodiacs altered their bodies to fit the zodiac theme. Cheadle altered her body, and now she has a dog's facial structure. As for how, who cares? Nen can do some crazy poo poo. Of course, the whole zodiac thing was probably pulled straight from Togashi's rear end. The animal theme is a simple shortcut for adding 10 new visually distinctive characters at once.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:18
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Confirmed. Ging is terrible at everything except being a Hunter 
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Jan 14, 2016 18:19
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:You can apply nen to objects. That was one of the things that Gon and Killua learned in Greed Island. The Horse Zodiac also carries around a sword. As does Nobunaga, another member of the Ryodan. Yeah, I understand that, but - assuming an equal amount of aura is used - is a nen-enhanced sword vs. a nen-enhanced fist/arm the exact same as a regular sword vs a regular fist? And if so, wouldn't the vast majority of people use some sort of weapon? It seems like you would be at a huge disadvantage without one, all other things being equal. My guess is "most people don't use weapons because Togashi didn't want most fights to involve weapons", which is perfectly acceptable; I was just curious if there was some actual, stated reason why only a few people are shown using them.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:27
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Ytlaya posted:Yeah, I understand that, but - assuming an equal amount of aura is used - is a nen-enhanced sword vs. a nen-enhanced fist/arm the exact same as a regular sword vs a regular fist? And if so, wouldn't the vast majority of people use some sort of weapon? It seems like you would be at a huge disadvantage without one, all other things being equal. I guess you could say that people have different styles they prefer, I guess? Nobunaga's entire schtick is that he's a samurai. Feitan's got this assassin thing going on, like having an umbrella that shoots its top like a bullet or hiding a sword within the umbrella and going around backstabbing dudes. Daltz or whatever his name was (the original leader of Neon's bodyguards) also rocked a sword. Hisoka uses cards, Illumi uses needles, and Gotoh used coins, while Pockle used arrows. Materialization is a thing, so some nen users who happen to have the knack for it like Kurapika and Shizuku do use conjured weapons. But another part has to do with the fact that not every nen power is about fighting. Like, Greed Island had a dude whose ability was using a radar. Enhancers are probably the least likely to use weapons because they can just get by with enhancing themselves. But I don't think there's an actual stated reason. It's fun to guess though.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:33
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Ytlaya posted:Yeah, I understand that, but - assuming an equal amount of aura is used - is a nen-enhanced sword vs. a nen-enhanced fist/arm the exact same as a regular sword vs a regular fist? And if so, wouldn't the vast majority of people use some sort of weapon? It seems like you would be at a huge disadvantage without one, all other things being equal. As for whether or not a nen-infused fist verses a nen-infused sword is any different than a regular fist versus a regular sword, that'd probably depend on the nature of the their nen and how they've applied it. If we're just talking two straightforward enhancers who're looking for extra power, no frills, no extras, then yeah, maybe. More than likely though, even if they are "Just" enhancers, they've have put some thought into a problem like that and come up with some sort of conditional solution.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:38
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Ytlaya posted:Yeah, I understand that, but - assuming an equal amount of aura is used - is a nen-enhanced sword vs. a nen-enhanced fist/arm the exact same as a regular sword vs a regular fist? And if so, wouldn't the vast majority of people use some sort of weapon? It seems like you would be at a huge disadvantage without one, all other things being equal. Cus theres no point in using something you don't like.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:39
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You can augment weapons just fine with Nen. Heck, that's what Feitan did when fighting Zazan; her defenses were just really strong and she saw it coming so she was able to stop him. re: Enhancers and weapons, you can actually "enhance" things you're wielding just as well with Enhancement, so someone who wanted to use mundane weapons effectively could totally pick up a sword or whatever and learn to use it with their Nen and be very good at it. So, yeah, it's likely just coincidence/Togashi not being interested in it that's keeping us from seeing much of this.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:50
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Also, thanks to the way Nen, you can assume that all their abilities got a good bit stronger thanks to the modifications. As for en on objects, that techique has a specific name, Shu. Remember when Gon and Killua had to dig a tunnel straight through the ground during their training with Biscuit. Coating a tool, or a weapon, in Nen massively enhances its strength and durability. And since metal starts out a lot harder than flesh, you simply need to invest less Nen. I.e., between too equally skilled Enhancers users, the one with the sword would have the advantage. Also, since Enhancer are stated to be amble to enhance even the function of objects, I still say it is possible for one to turn a flashlight into a laser sword. e X fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 19:02
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:But another part has to do with the fact that not every nen power is about fighting. Like, Greed Island had a dude whose ability was using a radar. i wish we got to see more non-combat nen abilities they're cool
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Jan 14, 2016 19:24
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Looking at temmie's tweets as she binge-watched reminded me how great Biscuit was. So great.
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Jan 14, 2016 19:48
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Bad Seafood posted:I'd imagine it's sort of an unwritten rule along the lines of conjurers/transmuters needing to be really familiar with whatever they're conjuring/transmuting. If you're a world-class martial artist, you concentrate your nen in your legs and fists; if you're an accomplished swordsman, a sword. Beyond that, you just had a several page long discussion about how probably the major limiting factor to nen is "how deeply you commit to it". Subconsciously, barring family-heirloom grandfather-used-this-sword-to-kill-himself shounen backstory that I'm sure comes up somewhere, you're going to find yourself much more reluctant to having your arm broken in half than you are to having your sword broken in half. Someone who uses their spear until it breaks in half, then uses the blade as a sword until it breaks in half, and then commits to using enhancing his body might not be as adept at any of the tasks as someone who just says "gently caress it, I'm going to punch you with brain fog".
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Jan 14, 2016 20:00
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That theory discounts people who are really dedicated to a particular kind of weapon. Those exist in the real world, too.
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Jan 14, 2016 20:08
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Serious Frolicking posted:That theory discounts people who are really dedicated to a particular kind of weapon. Those exist in the real world, too. Yes, which is why some people do use swords, like that one Phantom Troupe guy.
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Jan 14, 2016 20:12
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Then it seems like a person deeply committed to a decent weapon would gently caress up someone deeply committed to fighting with their fists. It's the "all parts equal" part that's important, here; obviously a weaponless nen user who is far more skilled could punk a less skilled person using a weapon. One explanation that could work (but I don't think has been explicitly stated) is if your aura becomes weaker the further it is from your body when enhancing something. So even if you can put aura into a sword, you can't put as much as you could put into your fist, so you end up with a trade-off between range and power. Vaguely related to this, that ant Feitan fought (Zazan I think) was actually ridiculously strong and only lost because Feitan's nen ability is retarded and overpowered*. She was completely unharmed by a full-forced strike from one of the stronger members of the Ryodan. *Though not as dumb as the dancer guy who can summon a Jupiter that apparently chases and crushes you and doesn't even require you to get hurt first
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Jan 14, 2016 20:37
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