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A Neurotic Jew posted:oooh, another $1000-$2499 backer Yeah, I've been noticing a similar trend (while much quieter) in regards to how the concept plays out given what is in the hanger. Granted, since they only have a small fraction of real ships actually in the hanger it hasn't been very vocal...but you tend to pick up some minor stuff in how they word their posts. I really expect the BMM to be the ultimate poo poo hitting the fan scenario when it gets released in 2020.
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Jan 18, 2016 19:50
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C-Bangin' it 
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Gumbel2Gumbel posted:Is there an engine around that could have made what they planned for this game feasible? UE4 seems capable enough at this point. There are local physics plugins and middleware, and every version of UE has had some kind of reasonably competent vehicle-based game come out of it. Hell, if they could have been satisfied with cheating it, UnrealEngine 1-style portals could have been used to create the seamless feel they're going for. The engine is mature, even if it's a new version, as are the various asset pipelines needed to stuff it with content. The development community and knowledge pool is absolutely massive, should they come across some technical issue. …but of course, with the kind of management and “development” processes CIG has displayed, nothing short of a self-building game would allow them to actually complete what they've promised. The choice of engine is just another bad and self-defeating management decision among many.
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Jan 18, 2016 19:51
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Samizdata posted:We need us a (Hollywood style) coder showdown... So they both type really fast on a keyboard while thumping music plays in the background and occasionally the screen cuts to a Windows desktop with a progress bar slowly filling up that says "Game Complete". Also inexplicably the monitor is reflecting a bunch of Matrix style terminal poo poo on them when you see their faces but the screen is always Windows with the progress bar when they cut to it. Also the computer makes a ding sound like a microwave when Derek wins.
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Jan 18, 2016 19:52
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Mirificus posted:Star Citizens are not impressed with CIG's handling of Star Marine. Hopefully the unquestioned loyalty of the shitizens really is an aberration of the typical video game community and they'll soon become what we all know and love: a roiling mass of entitled manchildren who hold developers to every word they say.
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Jan 18, 2016 19:52
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Samizdata posted:Also, if There seem to be two MAJOR assumptions by star citizens when it comes to CIG: 1) Delays happen in game development. "Stuff" happens and dates are missed. Ok, what delays? What happened and when? What issue caused them to delay SM? S42? Any missed deadline? Maybe I am missing the exact details and they were given, but most citizens say "stuff happens during development" (I know the throwing out of illfonic work did cause delays) CIG has assembled a team that knows everything about everything. Apparently, if you know how to code, you can solve any issue, bug, or problem. You can add anything to a game given enough time and money. How is this believable at all? Games should try to do 1 or 2 things excellently, and then 1-2 things very well. Call of Duty should never become a dungeon crawler. It does FPS well, as does Doom, MW, etc etc... SC is a jack of all trade, master of none, and if it ever works will be mediocre in every aspect. 
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Jan 18, 2016 19:53
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Berious posted:So they both type really fast on a keyboard while thumping music plays in the background and occasionally the screen cuts to a Windows desktop with a progress bar slowly filling up that says "Game Complete". You forgot the part where Derek gets interrupted by someone and has to scream "Let me loving finish!" right before he saves the day.
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Jan 18, 2016 19:54
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Gonkish posted:You forgot the part where Derek gets interrupted by someone and has to scream "Let me loving finish!" right before he saves the day.  that needs to happen
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Jan 18, 2016 19:57
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Tippis posted:UE4 seems capable enough at this point. There are local physics plugins and middleware, and every version of UE has had some kind of reasonably competent vehicle-based game come out of it. Hell, if they could have been satisfied with cheating it, UnrealEngine 1-style portals could have been used to create the seamless feel they're going for. Actually that would have been a brilliant solution, portals that only allow objects coated with a certain substance to pass through so suits, cargo containers, etc. could instantly transport outside and you wouldn't have to worry about air locks. You could also make a few giant ones and handwave them away as prohibitively expensive to make in a large scale so you could use them in hub locations to move ships.
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Jan 18, 2016 19:57
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Ash1138 posted:Hopefully the unquestioned loyalty of the shitizens really is an aberration of the typical video game community and they'll soon become what we all know and love: a roiling mass of entitled manchildren who hold developers to every word they say. I think the only thing that sets Star Citizen's fan base apart is that the Community Management actively empowers the most crazed fanatics. Remember that Sandi believes that squashing dissent is completely proper.
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Jan 18, 2016 19:58
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BMan posted:
http://i.imgur.com/4dHnZ6o.webm 
Beexoffel fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 19:59
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Hey Derek, 
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ZenMaster posted:SC is a jack of all trade, master of none, and if it ever works will be mediocre in every aspect. "Jack of all trades" is being incredibly generous.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:00
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Sarsapariller posted:I like that he did the kickstarter and then did not, himself, put any money into it. Ha ha I didn't even think of that, I like the cheeky little fucker now
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Jan 18, 2016 20:02
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Sarsapariller posted:I don 't know- Illfonic didn't seem the like the problem from this trailer: Sorry, I see my first statement wasn't followed up on...sort of was but not to its logical conclusion. Illfonic delivered the goods per the original contract (my guess) to their best efforts. De-railed by a constant onslaught of croberts visionary changes. Revise, revise, revise, etc. By this time the modularity of trying to merge a bunch of crap into a hack engine was a write-off. Make no mistake, I think what I've seen of their of the work looked great given the circumstances. The constant interference of a directive to deliver the highest fidelity possible is what did them in.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:02
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Gumbel2Gumbel posted:Is there an engine around that could have made what they planned for this game feasible? Every layer of promised detail reduced the number of commercially available options by an order of magnitude. The number one factor is the netcode, followed closely by the physics code. Normally in a space game the complexities are going to arise from the interaction of a bunch of ships in a 3D space, and smoothly maintaining all their position data without just dumping gigabytes of updates on the server. Usually this is done with a limited predictive model that the clients use to sort of project where the other ships are going, and then a few packets per second to update those vectors. Errors creep in but you don't notice them because you're 200m from the other ship moving at 300m/s. But then Star Citizen fucks all that up by having FPS. Now you've got to maintain all of the stuff above, and in every single ship you have a localized grid where you're trying to deal with positions on the centimeter scale- so suddenly you can't just fudge it, you have to have precise numbers updated constantly for the ships because how else do your spacemen know where to stand? Then on top of that you're now tracking all the regular FPS stuff in addition to the ships- player position and health and ammo and bullet paths and all that. Think about how much lag you experience in an average game of Battlefront and then think about how much worse it'd be if the entire landscape was broken up into 10mx10m chunks, zooming around at hundreds of miles per hour in random vectors that need to look exactly the same to everyone. Then on top of that you add the complexity of MMO persistence. Objects need to remain across all clients, so no soda machine that only one guy can see for example. So now you're posting all kinds of object physics data to all the clients as well, along with NPC information and loot and all of that. When they started this project I looked at it from a programmer's perspective and said "There is no loving way." Then I saw that he'd picked Cryengine rather than building his own, and it was all downhill from there. Chris built this thing to be a beautiful failure- there was no other way it could go.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:07
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AP posted:I forgot how much of a melt down SC Druggie actually had, it's pretty funny. lmao I forgot about this guy
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Jan 18, 2016 20:09
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Jan 18, 2016 20:12
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Sarsapariller posted:Every layer of promised detail reduced the number of commercially available options by an order of magnitude. The number one factor is the netcode, followed closely by the physics code. You are not a developer. Downvote -1 This is an awesome post, BTW.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:15
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Sarsapariller posted:A really great explanation about how they are 5 years too early to make this happen
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Jan 18, 2016 20:17
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 get so salty about the internet your friends get this for you brehs.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:22
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A Neurotic Jew posted:
Is that an award for suffering or causing? I'm going with causing. Yep.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:26
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Something to look forward to (or dread) from the Stimpire writer? https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/313770/i-call-dibs-on-sc-machinima Mirificus fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 20:27
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Ash1138 posted:Nice blowback from that dumb statement that it's only true if it comes from Chris (or whatever). Sure, in the short term it protects them from everything that Ben says because he's a big fat idiot who doesn't know what the gently caress he's talking about BECAUSE HE'S A GLORIFIED FORUM MODERATOR AND NOT A DEVELOPER, but in the long term it creates a single point of failure for trust in CIG: Chris' unrealistic promises. As they should! I don't get to tell my customers "when I promised you could issue invoices in any currency if you bought my software what I meant was  " and get away with it, why should game developers get a pass in promising you the moon to get your money?
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Jan 18, 2016 20:28
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"thanks, I will put this with all the other things people give me because I've thrown a huge, weeks-long tantrum" :places next to CitizenCon flowers:
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Jan 18, 2016 20:29
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A Neurotic Jew posted:
Sandi is honestly a broken person why would you post a screenshot of this, confirming that you let internet stuff deeply affect you as a person
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Jan 18, 2016 20:29
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Sarsapariller posted:Every layer of promised detail reduced the number of commercially available options by an order of magnitude. The number one factor is the netcode, followed closely by the physics code. Star Citizen: A Beautiful Failure
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Jan 18, 2016 20:29
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thank you all for this plaque I had made for myself, telling me how great I handled internet...bullshit? its definitely professional
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Jan 18, 2016 20:29
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Angelarch understands griefing https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6256543/#Comment_6256543
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Jan 18, 2016 20:31
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i like this angelarch guy
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Jan 18, 2016 20:32
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Is there even a single person on Earth not named John Carmack who understands games AND programming at a level that can make SC? Like Derek spent his entire life trying to do it, and he skipped all pretense of fidelity or playability to try and get there and he still cannot. The fact that people think Croberts can do it is hilarious.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:32
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I can't wait to find out that trophy somehow cost $30,000 and was bought with backer funds.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:33
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yes but it would have to be an actual company with money and publishers and people managing it but they wouldn't do it because its a dumb business move to make a game that people could enjoy for years
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Jan 18, 2016 20:33
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HKS posted:Is there even a single person on Earth not named John Carmack that understands games AND programming at a level that can make SC? There are a lot of people out there. None of them want to do it because space games are REALLY BORING. Seriously read what those guys fantasize about doing. Flying for hours in empty space. Loading cargo. Hauling cargo. Picking up stranded people. I mean gently caress, games are supposed to be escapism, not tedium simulators. It's why it's a dead genre over all.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:33
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I wonder if she'd post a photo of a giant golden phallic shaped award titled "2015 Golden Dick award / Sandi / For stiffing her customers on a daily basis"
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Jan 18, 2016 20:34
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sandi if people are mean to you on the internet you can just skip over those posts i do it all the time people in this very thread used to try to get sick burns on me but as soon as i went to a different thread i didnt care its a good way of living your life also
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Jan 18, 2016 20:35
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Said you took out a big loan They said you paid to play Bought a lot of jpegs They say And all you have is a picture Something you could keep And a VIP card Printed cheap for you Everyone asked why Said you bought a big ship Said it was on sale Didn't know they called you A whale I'd love to understand this Can you tell me how Hope the game gets finished Can you play it now at all Everyone asked why Everyone asked why Everyone said Don't spend on a bad game Cause they don't care how you are Everyone asked why If the refund is lousy You can always come home We can play Elite Dangerous We can play a real space game If they run with your money, you can always phone We could play a real space game We could do it, we could do it, we could do it Don't spend on a bad game where they don't care how you are Everyone asked why Everyone asked why Everyone asked why And the girl next door And the guy upstairs Everyone asked why And your mum and dad Everyone asked why And your big fat goon Everyone asked why
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Jan 18, 2016 20:37
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ZenMaster posted:There seem to be two MAJOR assumptions by star citizens when it comes to CIG: Oh man this is so spot on and it's so stupid. "Blizzard delays poo poo! Ergo, delays happen!" The thing that people miss about publicly funded games (or publicly funded anything, really) is the Blizzard is accountable to their management and, if applicable, shareholders. So internet plebes don't need an explanation because a.) an explanation would only make things worse and b.) plebes will buy the game anyway. They still have an explanation, it's just a matter of who actually requires that explanation. It's much simpler for a company like Blizzard - just as an example here - to have a policy of 'it's done when it's done.' In theory Shitizens are the very people to whom CIG should be accountable because in a sane universe, backers would have actually invested tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars into the game rather than ~donated~ it, and CIG would therefore be accountable to Internet weirdos who might withdraw their money and support. But they didn't and they aren't so here we are. CIG feels like they don't owe anybody an explanation because what's the worst that could happen? There's no board of investors to answer to. Even though there really should be. CIG is basically a publicly funded company that doesn't need to be accountable to their investors which is completely asinine. This makes Sandi's Internet Bullshit Award super hilarious. In, again, a sane world, backers would be investors. Do you think you'd post a facebook picture of your, "Dealing With Investor Bullshit Award" after your investors started to feel nervous about your company? Of course you wouldn't. But these are ~donations~ so you can treat your ~customers~ like poo poo! They're whiny entitled assholes who keep demanding their money back! What babies! Mendrian fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 20:39
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hanales posted:There are a lot of people out there. None of them want to do it because space games are REALLY BORING. And yet, this describes Elite: Dangerous perfectly.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:40
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When this collapses my dream is that Michael Lewis writes a book about it.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:41
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HKS posted:Is there even a single person on Earth not named John Carmack who understands games AND programming at a level that can make SC? Stick him in the same room as someone with good design sense and (in SC's case) someone with good sense of proportion, who knows when to say “stop”, and you might have a winning team. As a solo effort, I seriously doubt that anyone could do it.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:41
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Mendrian posted:And yet, this describes Elite: Dangerous perfectly. I agree. I think all these sims are silly. I also think flight sims, racing sims, and The Sims are boring as well.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:43
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