|
boom boom boom posted:Green Goblin didn't just casually murder people, that murder he did was kind of a big deal. Green Goblin more than anyone quite literally just murders random people. Him famously killing Gwen doesn't negate that fact. EVERY spiderman villain does the same.
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 06:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 14, 2024 08:39 |
|
|
Drifter posted:Green Goblin more than anyone quite literally just murders random people. Him famously killing Gwen doesn't negate that fact. EVERY spiderman villain does the same. Maybe Spider-man comics have changed a lot from when I was a kid, but I refuse to believe that Paste-pot Pete or Stiltman casually murder people.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 06:28
|
|
|
boom boom boom posted:Maybe Spider-man comics have changed a lot from when I was a kid, but I refuse to believe that Paste-pot Pete or Stiltman casually murder people. I'm fairly certain the Trapster once used his adhesive to suffocate a random person.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 06:29
|
|
|
Bunch of grandpas in here. It's 2016, we torture and kill some folks. Get over it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 07:09
|
|
|
catch22 posted:My problem with it isn't that the show has bad guys who murder innocent people, it's that this particular villain murdered an innocent but now we're supposed to accept him as a redeemable antihero or lovable rogue ,when he's already been shown to be a cold blooded killer who has shown zero remorse over it. Like this wasn't even a cop that had drawn his gun on him, it was just some guy trying to get away, and if not for the Flash how many other people that Snart fired at would be dead? And for Barry of all people to be the one who has the change of heart about him? Yeesh I don't remember Barry having a change of heart about Snart. He put Snart in prison after Snart turned on and killed his own father (to save his sister's life). Then Snart escaped from prison with the help of Weather Wizard, but instead of working with WW and Trickster to take down Barry, he came and tipped him off as a temporary peace offering. In that situation, it made sense for Barry to not immediately turn him in again, imo. Keep in mind we don't know if Snart and Rory will be redeemed. LOT's dialogue is pretty frank in its portrayal of the pair as criminals and thieves. It also definitely refers to them as villains at least once during the pilot, and a villain is not an antihero by definition. All that said, I agree with you about Flash. His killing bad guys isn't the problem, but rather the nonchalant way he does it, and the seeming lack of regret or remorse or trauma, is what kills it for me. The fact that a 25-year-old CSI nerd who has spent much of his life in labs can take lives without being devastated is just stupid. The fact that the others aid him is just icing on the cake, but not totally surprising. For example we know that Caitlyn's morals are of questionable quality and follows a certain ends-justify-the-means streak ("I'll just run some tests on Jay's saliva without his permission so I can figure out how he can get his speed back"), and Cisco is the guy who is in charge of keeping people locked up so we can assume he's a totalitarian at heart. But Barry is supposed to be above all that. He's supposed to be the hero. And so far he's doing a miserable job. Slow News Day fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Jan 25, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 07:17
|
|
|
Whizbang posted:Bunch of grandpas in here. It's 2016, we torture and kill some folks. Get over it. Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who...
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 07:18
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:The Flash in the comics always saved the day before Bad poo poo happened. That doesn't mean the TV show has to carry the same tone. It's already much lighter compared to The Arrow. Is it? I dropped out of Arrow early in season 3 and maybe I've just kind of forgotten it's tone in the year or two since then, but it doesn't really seem much, if any different. At this point Flash is mostly a show about Barry's angsty melodramas with some villain fights sprinkled in for flavor. I mean, has Barry rescued anyone he isn't personally acquainted with all season? The only person he's fought that wasn't gunning specifically for him from the start was probably Vandal Savage, and that was only because it was a crossover episode to introduce a new cast and show. A lot of the outdoor fights take place at night, a high proportion of villains are either murdered, killed or imprisoned indefinitely in a private extra-judicial prison. Which might as well be a death sentence, because the majority of them have died too from what I can recall. Most of the ones who lived only lived because they escaped. I don't know why Team Flash feel qualified to run their private prison, because they do a piss poor job of it. Several members of the cast have had to sacrifice their lives to help Barry beat a villain, his mother has been killed in front of him by that same villain, Barry lies to his family and friends regularly like Ollie to protect them and so on. I really don't see much difference between the shows. It's certainly not what I'd call a light-hearted show at this point. Nor would I call it an uplifting show with an inspiring hero, which is what I assumed Flash would be compared to Arrow (though that may be my own fault and not on the show) because there's very little noble or inspiring about Barry or Team Flash in general. tsob fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Jan 25, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 18:28
|
|
|
No, it definitely is not your fault. Flash sold itself as being an actual hero in contrast to Arrow's anti-hero (hell, even Oliver himself outright tells Barry that he can be what Oliver never was). And season 1 mostly followed wtih it in spite of certain failures (the prison comes across as the biggest, most obvious one). And then we have this season where Barry might as well be S1 Oliver without any of the excuses S1 Ollie had to be as he was. He lies to everyone, kills without issue, and he's basically intolerable, while Ollie was interesting and neat because he had very good reasons to be walking the line between hero and villain.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 18:59
|
|
|
People from other dimensions aren't real, you're allowed to kill them.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 19:03
|
|
|
That reminds me: is Turtle the first Earth-1 villain they have faced this season? My memory is hazy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 19:15
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:That reminds me: is Turtle the first Earth-1 villain they have faced this season? My memory is hazy. No. Captain Cold and Trickster and Weather Wizard of course, Vandal Savage, the firestorm lite guy they themselves created, Grodd. I think the only earth 2 guys have been Atom Smasher, Sand Demon, Zoom himself, King Shark, and Laser Lady.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 19:27
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:That reminds me: is Turtle the first Earth-1 villain they have faced this season? My memory is hazy. That aside, it seems like they were all Earth-2 based.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 19:28
|
|
|
I love the crossover stuff, but I think having to write around the shared universe and legends of tomorrow has made this season as wonky as it is. I'm hoping this all is intended as "the empire strikes back" season, where everything sucks for the characters and they have to grow to get through it, and season 3 can be about Barry having his poo poo together and being heroic. I realize that I'm probably being too optimistic.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 21:21
|
|
|
Nothing about LoT required them to write a bad Firestorm episode.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 21:25
|
|
|
Flash has too many characters that they want to tell stories around. That's the problem facing the show. It drags all of the plotlines down because every episode has to include every plot line for some dumb reason. As much as I like Team Flash, Wells2, Joe, and Patty, they really need to trim down some of the arcs. If Wally would have been pushed off for a season, and Flash either committed to Patty early or got rid of her completely the show's pacing would have been greatly improved while allowing for the crossover/LoT prologue thing. The show is a lot like the hero Flash, it wants to do too much, too fast, when it should observe, plan, and then execute. That said, I like Flash, have no intentions on checking out or taking a break. The writing room (and this is true for Arrow and probably LoT) just needs someone who stands in the corner and yells negatively when the writers try to cram in filler. "Maybe we should have Ollie keep a secret from everyone again" "NNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" "Wally West should totally appear and him and Joe can spend half the season trying to get past decades of angst very halfassedly" "NNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 21:36
|
|
|
The second season of Arrow was definitely their Empire Strikes Back season. I'm actually watching season three at the moment and... it's not that bad?  Honestly, it's a bit like the sixth season of Buffy or the fourth season of Angel or the third season of Millennium in that its reputation for being a real let-down preceded it, but when I actually watched it myself, I ended up enjoying it a lot.Anyway, I think one problem we've had so far with this season of Flash so far is that it doesn't have the same narrative through-line as the first one. By that, I mean that season one revolved around Barry attempting to discover who really killed his mother, and then catch them so he can get his father out of prison. In this one, there just isn't the same personal connection between him and the villain; Barry was after the Reverse-Flash but Zoom is the one after Barry this time. If anything, Wells should probably be the protagonist because he's the one with the most direct personal conflict with Zoom; he's responsible for creating him, and then he went and kidnapped his daughter.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 23:06
|
|
|
There's also the fact that we know gently caress all about Zoom and have been given zero reason to give a poo poo about his obsession beyond that he's bad and bad things will happen if he gets his way. I mean, presumably. Maybe once he has all the speed force he'll just gently caress off? The show has made no effort to clarify. In season one Barry was constantly trying to track down the Reverse Flash but by episode 7 or 8 we had a pretty good idea that Wells was him and we could come to hate or love the Reverse Flash through him and his actions because of it. We have nothing with Zoom. He's just a worse rehash of Reverse Flash on every level. What's worse is that the show is threatening to over-shadow that now since we have the actual Reverse Flash in on things now as well as Wells. Who is Zoom? Who knows. We have zero clues of substance and no-one in show is making any effort to investigate it that we're aware of. Wells probably has some information on him, but that's only been implied and if he is, he's shown zero interest in sharing and everyone else has shown zero interest in pressing him for it. Why does he want Barry's speed? No idea. What's his back story? No idea. What's his origin? No idea. What do we know about him? Nothing essentially. Which, at over the half way point of the season just isn't good enough. I don't know or care anything about Zoom and I wish his character would disappear down a black hole so someone more interesting could be introduced and Barry could actually try and be a hero for once.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2016 23:32
|
|
|
tsob posted:There's also the fact that we know gently caress all about Zoom and have been given zero reason to give a poo poo about his obsession beyond that he's bad and bad things will happen if he gets his way. I mean, presumably. Maybe once he has all the speed force he'll just gently caress off? The show has made no effort to clarify. In season one Barry was constantly trying to track down the Reverse Flash but by episode 7 or 8 we had a pretty good idea that Wells was him and we could come to hate or love the Reverse Flash through him and his actions because of it. We have nothing with Zoom. He's just a worse rehash of Reverse Flash on every level. What's worse is that the show is threatening to over-shadow that now since we have the actual Reverse Flash in on things now as well as Wells. These are all good points. Zoom hasn't done anything except beat the poo poo out of Barry.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2016 00:54
|
|
|
CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:These are all good points. Zoom hasn't done anything except beat the poo poo out of Barry. And kidnap Harry's daughter.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2016 00:58
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:And kidnap Harry's daughter. The only purpose for which was to convince Harry to help him beat the poo poo out of Barry some more.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2016 01:02
|
|
|
tsob posted:The only purpose for which was to convince Harry to help him beat the poo poo out of Barry some more. He had her before Harry even crossed over.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2016 07:16
|
|
|
He also knew he wanted to beat up Barry before he crossed over though, else there was no point in sending in Atom Smasher. And he probably didn't have her for long before that, because she's still around as normal during Jay's flashbacks.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2016 10:41
|
|
|
He wanted to beat up the Flash. Meaning Jay. He didn't even know about Barry when he sent the first few Earth-2 metas over.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2016 15:35
|
|
|
That doesn't really make sense though. He already has Jay's speed and that's what he's primarily concerned with. He has no real reason to give a poo poo about taking Jay's life. Additionally, when Atom Smasher confronts Barry he never once shows surprise at the fact that the Flash, who he must know from his own timeline (several of the other villains explicitly do) looks different. Atom Smasher does however act surprised that Barry is so weak because "He" said The Flash was some kind of big hero there. Sand Demon also mentions that he thought Jay was dead when Jay confronts him, and he's the second villain sent over - also hunting a Flash.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2016 17:19
|
|
|
New clip from this week's episode
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2016 18:32
|
|
|
Goddamn Barry sucks at being the Flash.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2016 18:40
|
|
|
mikeraskol posted:Goddamn Barry sucks at being the Flash. That's why they need to bring in Wally to take over as the better Flash like he did in the comics. Spoilers for the clip: So it's still an out of sequence RF although this implies that - until that point - Thawne had been getting into fights with the Flash in different timelines, and just now he is figuring out what time he is actually from.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2016 18:51
|
|
|
That punch is hilarious. Also Barry is totally going to steal some speed force to get up to speed with Zoom.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2016 18:51
|
|
|
It just makes me wish the Reverse-Flash was still the main villain. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2016 20:18
|
|
|
I'm kind of hoping that during the showdown with RF and Flash tonight Zoom just flies in, grabs RF, kills him, steals his speed, episode ends.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2016 20:20
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:It just makes me wish the Reverse-Flash was still the main villain. You're not the only one. I said a page or so ago that the return of the Reverse Flash threatens to over-shadow Zoom and I think he already has in that one scene. Also, it's funny that the opening still has Barry saying he's the fastest man alive when there are now at least two people faster than him. Not only is Barry a murderer and violating human rights, but he's a liar too. Is there no low he won't stoop to? When will a hero show up to put a stop to that despicable villain the Flash?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2016 20:21
|
|
|
My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive. The Reverse Flash is a speedster, whose ability is speed, he's fast is what I'm saying here, he has a lot of speed. He's standing directly in front of me. I have no idea that he's going to use his speed and try and punch me, and thus will get hit in the face and the woman I'm trying to protect will be taken. This is my story.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2016 20:22
|
|
|
I hope tonight's episode doesn't suck, but judging by your reactions to that clip that was just posted. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2016 21:23
|
|
|
greatn posted:I think the only earth 2 guys have been Atom Smasher, Sand Demon, Zoom himself, King Shark, and Laser Lady.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2016 21:25
|
|
|
mikeraskol posted:My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive. The Reverse Flash is a speedster, whose ability is speed, he's fast is what I'm saying here, he has a lot of speed. He's standing directly in front of me. I have no idea that he's going to use his speed and try and punch me, and thus will get hit in the face and the woman I'm trying to protect will be taken. This is my story. I mean, in all fairness he has just been confronted by the man who killed his mother who is definately dead. As much as Barry is generally an idiot I'm willing to give him a pass to not being on his A game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2016 23:01
|
|
|
Oracle posted:'Laser Lady?' Her name is Doctor Light. She didn't spend six years in evil medical school to be called 'Lady' buster. She'd clearly have a PhD in optical physics. If anything, she went to Evil Caltech. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2016 23:07
|
|
|
Guy A. Person posted:That's why they need to bring in Wally to take over as the better Flash like he did in the comics. THAT MAKES NO LOGICAL GOD DAMNED SENSE. Eddie DIED. As in no Thawn descendants. So there's no "earlier" part of Eobard's timeline he can come from BECAUSE IT NEVER loving EXISTED. The sloppy story telling is killing me this year. All I can say is he better be from a different universe than the one the show is in.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2016 23:10
|
|
|
flosofl posted:THAT MAKES NO LOGICAL GOD DAMNED SENSE. Eddie DIED. As in no Thawn descendants. So there's no "earlier" part of Eobard's timeline he can come from BECAUSE IT NEVER loving EXISTED. The sloppy story telling is killing me this year. All I can say is he better be from a different universe than the one the show is in. Yea I mean, this basically says it all. There CAN'T be an earlier timeline, because there is no timeline, like nothing, anywhere, at any time, ever. He was never born. I didn't watch the trailer, but does it say anywhere that it's definitively Earth-1 RF? Because it could be the RF from any of the other 52 Earths. McSpankWich fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Jan 26, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2016 23:16
|
|
|
It's comics do you expect it to make sense?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2016 23:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 14, 2024 08:39 |
|
|
McSpankWich posted:Yea I mean, this basically says it all. There CAN'T be an earlier timeline, because there is no timeline, like nothing, anywhere, at any time, ever. He was never born. I didn't watch the trailer, but does it say anywhere that it's definitively Earth-1 RF? Because it could be the RF from any of the other 52 Earths. Showrunners have explicitly said he's the Earth-1 Reverse Flash, "from an earlier timeline." There'd obviously have to be something left even after he got erased since otherwise the entire premise of the show goes out the window, with Nice Wells not being murdered and replaced, the particle accelerator not going off for years, etc. You might say that the entire solution of "have RF's ancestor kill himself to erase him from time" is a really dumb resolution, and I'd agree, but this is what we're stuck with.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2016 23:20
|
|
