Star Citizen: Big MoMA's House

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Samizdata: May 14, 2007

Ursine Catastrophe posted:

no, it's a donation to lowtax and in thanks he gave them emotes

duh

also if you're going to come into the thread to make fun of people you may as well make fun of the popsicle sticks

He's just pissed because these pictures can actually MOVE and DO/MEAN SOMETHING.

# ? Feb 13, 2016 08:33

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# ? May 16, 2024 10:07

Kimsemus: Dec 4, 2013; by Reene; Toilet Rascal

Toops posted:

Ok, few pages back, but I'm gonna try to answer this honestly. I've thought a lot about it. I'm not sorry about the length.

No, I don't think it's possible to make a game of Star Citizen's scope today. It's not because game engines can't do it. It's because we lack the communication and dev tools required to break the art-code boundary.

There's a huge problem in game design that's been there from the start: 3d art assets are tightly coupled to the code that controls them, but they are developed almost completely separately by people with very different kinds of brains. Artists operate in the visual control space. Programmers operate in the logical control space. These modes of thought aren't very compatible. This problem becomes magnified by scope, which is another word for complexity.

The pressure on the art-code boundary rises exponentially with increased complexity. This is why simple games with limited scope have been hitting so hard, and why large projects with unbounded scope keep falling flat. Fallout 4 is a good game, but you can see right where the vision and the execution exploded and had to be walked back to feasibility.

No one can deny CIG has brilliant artists, and very talented programmers. But we can all see what's happening: Some senior 3d artist takes specific vision for an asset and works hard, using every ounce of their technical and creative knowledge to build that asset. Then, through a primitive and largely un-evolved process, they "hand it off" to the engineers, who have poured out every ounce of their capability into a complex framework to control those assets, which meets the technical requirements. Without fail, when the engineers are handed the assets, they go "gently caress. Well, that's not gonna work with the system we've designed." So they hack apart their logical framework, or send it back to the artist to hack apart their visual framework, or both (usually both), and generally squash and dismember the original intent just to get the loving thing to work at all.

Now, throw into this the third wheel, the "visionary," who sees this compromised end-product, and says "Guys, this isn't good enough. Do it again." The artists and engineers know that in a way he's right. He's just an idiot for asking for it in the first place, and not giving them the tools to succeed. But gently caress it, they're still getting a paycheck so they embark again to get it right, and end up make the same exact mistakes.

This is the precise loop that SC is in right now, and the only solution is to reduce complexity. That's the only possible way anything will ever be playable. This is why Derek is spot-on when he says this game won't be delivered as described. But Chris won't do it.

The bottom line is, Chris Roberts is a loving fool for having such hubris and ignorance. You think it's "revolutionary" to take every feature you think is cool and throw it in a soup?? That's the opposite of vision. A visionary sees what other don't, and everyone has seen what he does, and said "nope, that's a terrible idea, because it's not feasible."

This is a good post and I think explains one of the key problems quite well, thank you.

# ? Feb 13, 2016 09:18

AP: Jul 12, 2004; One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them; Grimey Drawer

A Neurotic Jew posted:

I took a snapshot of the one second of footage I hadn't seen before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aFtpzw9c8w&t=29s

The BBC were far more critical than I expected, everyone expects the BBC to be neutral but that's for news stories that matter. Click is informative but still an entertainment show they could easily have decided to do a pure puff piece on the largest crowdfunded game in history as the motion capture was filmed in London and the single player game is being created in Manchester. They chose not to do that, presumably because their researchers turned up some of the drama.

AP fucked around with this message at 10:25 on Feb 13, 2016

# ? Feb 13, 2016 09:27

Thursday Next: Jan 11, 2004; FUCK THE ISLE OF APPLES. FUCK THEM IN THEIR STUPID ASSES.

I saw a whale in real life today and thought of this thread. A guy was wearing a Star Citizen jacket at the Thai restaurant I took an interview candidate to for lunch. He was animatedly talking about space ships, gesturing with his phad thai.

# ? Feb 13, 2016 09:33

AP: Jul 12, 2004; One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them; Grimey Drawer

Also, they didn't broadcast the interview with Sandi Gardiner and you just know there had to be one.

# ? Feb 13, 2016 09:35

Romes128: Dec 28, 2008; Fun Shoe

Hi sandi

You booger

# ? Feb 13, 2016 09:51

Romes128: Dec 28, 2008; Fun Shoe

Thursday Next posted:

I saw a whale in real life today and thought of this thread. A guy was wearing a Star Citizen jacket at the Thai restaurant I took an interview candidate to for lunch. He was animatedly talking about space ships, gesturing with his phad thai.

Did you punch him in the face and welcome him to the stimpire?

# ? Feb 13, 2016 09:57

AP: Jul 12, 2004; One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them; Grimey Drawer

Romes128 posted:

Hi sandi

You booger

'Got my beach body!' Ajay Rochester showcases her curves in a low-cut tasselled corset as she rehearses for new web series The Doll... and reveals she has shed 27 kilos

# ? Feb 13, 2016 09:58

tooterfish: Jul 13, 2013

AP posted:

It's like if a Jedi got Tourette's.

# ? Feb 13, 2016 10:01

AP: Jul 12, 2004; One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them; Grimey Drawer

# ? Feb 13, 2016 10:04

Romes128: Dec 28, 2008; Fun Shoe

AP posted:

'Got my beach body!' Ajay Rochester showcases her curves in a low-cut tasselled corset as she rehearses for new web series The Doll... and reveals she has shed 27 kilos

Lol what is this horse poo poo

Is sandi still "acting" in a Web series while being director of everything at cig while going on other auditions on company money?

# ? Feb 13, 2016 10:05

Chin: Dec 12, 2005; GET LOST 2013
-RALPH

Toops posted:

I don't think it's possible to make a game of Star Citizen's scope today. It's not because game engines can't do it. It's because we lack the communication and dev tools required to break the art-code boundary.

If it's actually that impossible to get art to work well with systems in a complex setting how do you explain beautiful complex games like GTA5 or Red Dead Redemption? I'm no expert but it seems like games made by well managed studios staffed with competent people have standards and systems in place to handle the issue of art and code coming together. They're not all fumbling around with "female locomotion" type problems for months and years like CIG.

And sure, GTA5 and RDR type games don't deal with the bonkers concept of instances within instances within instances. High fidelity gunfights inside ships engaged in space battles. But I don't see how that's a problem with art not communicating well with code. That's more like an excessively ambitious networking nightmare on top of base engine foibles.

SC as stated is impossible and the key is dialing back on complexity. No question. Lop off the insane bits like PG Crysis planets and do away with the stupid poo poo like drink mixing and space farming and the game becomes quite feasible for a good experienced dev team with shitloads of money and half a decade. A hybridization of EvE and E:D with elements of SWTOR. Have people walking around in their buddies' ships but don't obsess about making sure every little movement is communicated accurately to the players outside.

# ? Feb 13, 2016 10:06

lollontee: Nov 4, 2014; Can't post for 10 years!

I'm not sure if this is a problem on my end or someone elses, but I can't see images linked from ultraimg. Going straight to the gif loads it fine, but whenever somebody posts it in a thread with tags, I get a broken link image instead. Anybody else getting this?

AP posted:

Thank you.

# ? Feb 13, 2016 10:17

AP: Jul 12, 2004; One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them; Grimey Drawer

Romes128 posted:

Lol what is this horse poo poo

Is sandi still "acting" in a Web series while being director of everything at cig while going on other auditions on company money?

http://www.pikore.com/sandigardiner

quote:

Fun weekend shooting 'The Doll Finale' !
13 days ago

Filmed 'The Eighth House' all weekend - great cast and crew!
2 months ago

Shot a TV pilot - my CoStar and I showed up with the same jacket!
3 months ago

2 Weekends

# ? Feb 13, 2016 10:20

Chin: Dec 12, 2005; GET LOST 2013
-RALPH

AP posted:

# ? Feb 13, 2016 10:22

AP: Jul 12, 2004; One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them; Grimey Drawer

I love everything about Star Citizen, did some dev just get bored and put that in as a joke as he knew nobody important would bother going into the hangar anymore?

# ? Feb 13, 2016 10:24

Daztek: Jun 2, 2006

Friendly Tumour posted:

I'm not sure if this is a problem on my end or someone elses, but I can't see images linked from ultraimg. Going straight to the gif loads it fine, but whenever somebody posts it in a thread with tags, I get a broken link image instead. Anybody else getting this?

Thank you.

It's because you're browsing the forums on https/using SSL and ultraimg doesn't support SSL

# ? Feb 13, 2016 11:00

lollontee: Nov 4, 2014; Can't post for 10 years!

Daztek posted:

It's because you're browsing the forums on https/using SSL and ultraimg doesn't support SSL

Ah. Thank you.

# ? Feb 13, 2016 11:02

Kakarot: Jul 20, 2013; by zen death robot; Buglord

What was Sandi's excuse for wearing shades on ATV? Please ask reddit if necessary.

# ? Feb 13, 2016 11:29

Berious: Nov 13, 2005

I Greyhound posted:

Did backers demand an 85-piece symphony orchestra? Because that's what they're getting!

Also is the score more or fewer pages than the script?

Also why is this the Arena Commander theme when that module has been out for over year, the only part of Star Citizen that's out?

With how highly strung these arty farty types can be I bet Chris sends an underling to tell him Chris says redo it.

# ? Feb 13, 2016 11:31

it dont matter: Aug 29, 2008

Can't wait to buy a making of book about an unfinished game.

This is them desperately trying to meet their kickstarter obligations so they're not legally on the hook for those rewards while they plan how to announce all the features which are being cut. Not happy about the removal of space farming or birds? Tough poo poo you already got your making of pamphlet so get hosed.

e: actually it should be a making off book. That they could write easily.

AP posted:

http://www.pikore.com/sandigardiner

2 Weekends

Love to be a fly on the wall when she goes to an audition and tells them she can only work weekends. It's cool though who wouldn't fit their filming schedule around the best actress since she was a little girl.

it dont matter fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Feb 13, 2016

# ? Feb 13, 2016 11:36

Tokamak: Dec 22, 2004

AP posted:

http://www.pikore.com/sandigardiner

2 Weekends

The reason that these shoots were on weekends is due to the "actors" all having day jobs, right? Sandi's film career is going up, uP, UP!

# ? Feb 13, 2016 11:42

sunaurus: Feb 13, 2012; Oh great, another bookah.

I Greyhound posted:

Did backers demand an 85-piece symphony orchestra? Because that's what they're getting!

Also is the score more or fewer pages than the script?

Also why is this the Arena Commander theme when that module has been out for over year, the only part of Star Citizen that's out?

I don't know about you guys but I'm really excited for the orchestral version of Full Burn

# ? Feb 13, 2016 11:43

StraightFace: Feb 9, 2014

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15196-Discount-Package-For-Backers

lol

# ? Feb 13, 2016 12:02

Mr.Tophat: Apr 7, 2007; You clearly don't understand joke development

Dusty Lens posted:

At this point I'm 80% certain that RtV exists to make sure that people are banned before streams where CIG tries to sell something.

tooterfish posted:

If this is indeed the case, then they gathered together in a war council to try and mitigate our tactics at gleaning humour which is absolutely loving hilarious

If you're reading this CIG gj at countergooning, gg, you won the battle to lose the war

# ? Feb 13, 2016 12:33

Mr.Tophat: Apr 7, 2007; You clearly don't understand joke development

# ? Feb 13, 2016 12:37

Mr.Tophat: Apr 7, 2007; You clearly don't understand joke development

Kakarot posted:

Derek was wrong

LET HIM loving FINISH

# ? Feb 13, 2016 12:39

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; Can't post for 4 hours!

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Acupire/Stimpuncture

These needles don't heal, they just cause more pain baby :getin:

# ? Feb 13, 2016 13:04

I Greyhound: Apr 22, 2008; MusicKrew Dawn Patrol

How long until we go from posting 'ironic' Stimpire lore to becoming the legit Stimpire headquarters of the Internet?

# ? Feb 13, 2016 13:07

Mr.Tophat: Apr 7, 2007; You clearly don't understand joke development

I Greyhound posted:

How long until we go from posting 'ironic' Stimpire lore to becoming the legit Stimpire headquarters of the Internet?

Depends on how many finger nails we donate to the pain-politik elite

# ? Feb 13, 2016 13:13

Berious: Nov 13, 2005

I Greyhound posted:

How long until we go from posting 'ironic' Stimpire lore to becoming the legit Stimpire headquarters of the Internet?

That point was passed about 50 pages ago

All hail the Stimpire

# ? Feb 13, 2016 13:15

fat bossy gerbil: Jul 1, 2007

Fill me in on this...stimpire. I can't read 500 pages of whatever it is this thread has become.

# ? Feb 13, 2016 13:21

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; Can't post for 4 hours!

Gilganixon posted:

to the stimpire with your smilies

and not one of the good stimpires either, i'm talking about the fourth one

speaking of:

The saga continues!

WHATEVER WILL BECOME OF OUR BRAVE CREW

hail the stimperium

Has any one reached out to Stimpire guy? This guy poured his heart and soul out to what he thought were his fellow cretins and they shunned him. Now he's found his true audience and he needs to know he has true followers. I mean after all is said and done SC will crash and burn, but the Stimpire will live on in the hearts of goons bringing them joy worldwide

# ? Feb 13, 2016 13:35

Cobblers: Feb 5, 2016; Come commandos, on wings of joy we'll fly
To where my bower hangs on high;
Come, and make thy calm retreat,
Among procedurally generated green leaves and blossoms sweet.

The French Army! posted:

Fill me in on this...stimpire. I can't read 500 pages of whatever it is this thread has become.

Fanfic from the RSI forums. Truly the most compelling prose to drip from the pen of a shitizen:

quote:

In the last 500 years, the Fourth Stimpire has dominated four systems, which it has united into one starzone, Stimsis. The Fourth Stimpire has origins from the Ten Empire War in which 10 of the United Stimpires revolted against each rules. All empires except for the fourth swore freedom upon their citizens. There is no free speech in the Fourth Stimpire, and all self-controlled transportation has been made illegal without undergoing painful medical verification methods, in which arteries are severed without pain resistant, operated entirely by machines. The way they work claim to be the most hygenic and healthy way possible, but these machines often rub against pain points, causing great deals of pain to patients. The heart is then extracted from the body and placed into a glass grinding machine. Various energy centers are also dissected and replaced with dangerous transplants. After the painful, 52 hour surgical procedure, patients will then have to use a fused guidance tool, which pumps painful resistors into the body every 2 hours. The pain they have caused is so bad, the victim would freeze in a tense position. They would then collapse afterwards.

Sexual stimulation in any way within the grounds of the Fourth Stimpire is strictly prohibited, and anyone detected even touching their sexual organs will be subjected to a penectomy or if the offender was a female, they would then have a razor inserted into their ovaries. They would pump a blue solution into the womb until the stitchings burst. Offenders would also be forced to show their operated areas in public, and they would always harass and punch them to a pulp, against their will.

Otherwise, offenders would be tazed with the worst type of electricity in the systematic district, causing so much pain, the victim would scream and flail in madness. The pain would also triple every second, but no death would be incurred. This is also used in combat against enemy units, which is why all UEE forces must wear the upgraded suit to block this effect.

However, enertainment is also questionable in UEE grounds. Sporting events end with the losing team being rounded into a grinder and shredded on live television, boxing matches end with the loser having their hands removed without anasthesia, flight races would end with the losers having their arms and legs removed, then being injected with insanity, for entertainment. People are also forced into these events, by undergoing a painful 127 hour procedure which involves tweaking the muscles so they will not listen to brain commands, and then having a painful drug injected which also causes madness if the player is not sporting. This is all for entertainment, and anyone not watching any of it during sporting times and cheering for the winning team, they will be imprisoned into galactic camps.

Snuff films are also broadcast, and actors are actually murdered just for entertainment. Stealth droids also guide these forced actors into behaving exactly as the director dreams, otherwise they will be punished by being placed into a macerator and having their execution written into the film. Any film that does not feature someone being murdered will be burned and the entire crew behind it will be executed in the most grotesque way possible - vivisection.

All executions are broadcast, and anyone who misses even a millisecond, even by blinking, will be executed. All citizens must boo to the person being executed, and the family is gathered to be injected with eternators, which cause pain forever, making them immoral but feeling the pain tenfold every millisecond. They cannot pass out, but they will feel like it forever.

Conquests by this Stimpire end in the planet being razed, and all the citizens being executed in the same way as their citizens are. The planet is then destroyed and all remnants of it are removed, and any memories of it will be erased instantly from civil minds. People who are also killed are also erased from memories, and all memories of them, including toys and pictures, are destroyed.

Prisoners undergo 40,000 years of relentless and endless labor, and anyone not complying is sentenced to the eternator injection. All prisoners injected with eternators are placed into capsules and launched into far space, then the room is closed tight to ensure maximum insanity. Some prisoners are also subjected to the removal of blood, the lungs, the liver, the genitals, the skeleton, the muscles, the eyes, and even the injection of pressure. Prisoners sentenced to pressure chambers are locked in until they are inflated to a high level. The decompression is then stopped to make sure they are inflated and uncomfortable.

Children born on the 14th of July are subjected to the removal of their skeleton and an implant of a silver liquid to replace it. The nervous sysem is also injected in various parts to ensure it is five times more sensitive than the average.

Restaurants also are ordered to serve civil meat, and anyone attending must give themself up to be cooked into a grotesque meal. They are cooked alive, undergoing extreme pain, and are then subjected to industrial grinders and blenders. The Stimpire orders at least 1 million citizens to be dispatched every day, as they are afraid the population may overthrow them. But only one planet is cared for, and the rest are banned from eating, drinking, talking, using technology, touching anyone, wearing unauthorized clothes, touching buildings, or walking a centimeter out of designated routes. Civil enforcers are on every planet, and they are engineered so that they are 40 times larger than the 300 quadrillion population. At least 7 billion die every 12 hours under this rule.

Thoughts are also surveyed, and anyone who does not think anything to loving the Stimpire with more than their capabilities will be sentenced to a prison. Prisoners who are punished for this violation will meet their greatest fear, only to have it amplified so they will turn insane as they imagine it exactly as they fear it. They then undergo a painful extraction of all fluids, to be replaced by a toxin which causes permanent irritation. The unknown substance keeps the subject aging normally, except they will never die. Prisoners punished in this way are unable to be reverted, despite many efforts, and they will never be able to be disposed.

The sickening truths have been revealed only today, and invigilation teams are still investigating the truths without setting foot in the galactic space of this sickening empire.

The Stimperor protects.

Cobblers fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Feb 13, 2016

# ? Feb 13, 2016 13:36

chaosbreather: Dec 9, 2001; Wry and wise,
but also very sexual.

The French Army! posted:

Fill me in on this...stimpire. I can't read 500 pages of whatever it is this thread has become.

careful there buddy according to latest research, asking questions about the stimpire is punishable by having a small torture robot grafted onto the back of your skull that reaches around your head and strikes your temples with a futuristic glockenspiel hammer 24 hours a day to the stimpire anthem, which is a song engineered to make bowels bleed for three months

then after those months they give you a chemical that makes you permanently addicted to getting hit in the temples but then they lock your head in a space helmet that's impossible to remove

# ? Feb 13, 2016 13:40

EminusSleepus: Sep 28, 2015

well Ben is climbing up the corporate ladder!

NWS http://i.imgur.com/3GK1gh3.jpg

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Feb 13, 2016 13:44

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; Can't post for 4 hours!

does anyone have a link to the original stimthread? The replies to it are pretty telling too

# ? Feb 13, 2016 13:44

KM Scorchio: Feb 13, 2008; "If you don't find rape hilarious, you're a sensitive crybaby."

Bit disappointed the BBC didn't delve deeper into the goings on at CIG. Makes me wonder... Has anyone taken the time to compile some of the more questionable activities (sale of none existent ships at massive prices, changing ToS regarding release date, allegations of employee mistreatment and racism, hilarious 'customer service' emails from Sandi to name a few, I don't follow the thread religiously enough to catch every detail) so that they could easily be forwarded to some respectable journalists to see if they bite and follow up with some proper investigation? I can imagine a few UK based news organisations picking it up, especially given the studio here which we know has been taking any tax breaks they can get their grubby mitts on from the UK government (which is already under the spotlight in the news on the subject of tax due to some dodgy agreements with Google). Surely Derek has a decent dossier on this whole shitshow that could be put to use to get some mainstream attention on these scumbags squandering 100m+ of backers money?

KM Scorchio fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Feb 13, 2016

# ? Feb 13, 2016 14:06

Cobblers: Feb 5, 2016; Come commandos, on wings of joy we'll fly
To where my bower hangs on high;
Come, and make thy calm retreat,
Among procedurally generated green leaves and blossoms sweet.

Alan Smithee posted:

does anyone have a link to the original stimthread? The replies to it are pretty telling too

That thread seems to have been deleted. I suspect Roberts poached it for the squadron 42 script and had the original scrubbed lest his theft was detected.

This thread is the last which remains which tells of the Stimpire. I've invited the Stimperor himself to join my org on the RSI forums as i could use his input in writing the background lore.

Cobblers fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Feb 13, 2016

# ? Feb 13, 2016 14:06

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# ? May 16, 2024 10:07

aleksendr: May 14, 2014

The Kins posted:

What's the emoticon for spending $60+ on GIF files so that you can better mock people who spent money on JPEGs?

But those Emoticons are shared and available to everyone. Its a gift that keep on giving !

Also the pink elephant is cute :

:eonwe:

# ? Feb 13, 2016 14:14

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