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Windshield chat: just got the windshield on the Forester replaced today. Taking bets on how long until it catches a rock... the old one looked like the surface of the moon, with a big crack originating at the bottom center and spreading outwards as the icing on the cake. Epicenter was the expired inspection sticker 
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Feb 29, 2016 05:39
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Splizwarf posted:I'm prepared to accept that it's a different substance on a new car, but the stay-soft weatherstrip is what Safelite and similar use. No matter what the OEM stuff is made from, though, it's usually cake to jam fingers into and lever up. Source: worked in a salvage yard and hated broken glass but also hated dashboards (aka the most fragile and impossible to ship part of a car ugh). I've either done, or helped do four of the last eight windshields replaced on my fleet. The rest I watched. Every single one was urethaned in - modern cars use the windshield as part of the structure, both from a crash and rollover standpoint, and if Safelite actually put em in with easily removable stuff like that they'd kill someone and probably end up named in a lawsuit. New car, a urethane bonded windshield installation. Old car, a butyl/goopy always sticky rubber rope windshield installation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joMK1WZjP7g Note how the windshield in the old car actually flies out, since the chassis sees in excess of 30-50Gs of deceleration when it strikes the other vehicle. It just peels free of the butyl and flees the scene. e: http://www.carwindshields.info/right-and-wrong-ways-to-replace-a-windshield says this: quote:does the shop use urethane adhesive recommended by manufacturers? are the technicians trained on a proper use and application of urethanes? kastein fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Feb 29, 2016 |
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Feb 29, 2016 16:32
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Why is there sand pouring out of the rockers on the Bel Air at 0:58?
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Feb 29, 2016 16:57
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ShittyPostmakerPro posted:Why is there sand pouring out of the rockers on the Bel Air at 0:58? It's probably rust, but it could be actual sand based on the age of the car. poo poo gets everywhere.
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Feb 29, 2016 17:04
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Seat Safety Switch posted:It's probably rust, but it could be actual sand based on the age of the car. poo poo gets everywhere. IIRC, the testers use sandbags to 'weigh' the car as if it was carrying a family of four, for when they're testing structural damage on impact, instead of the mayhem a wreck like that will cause to bodies.
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Feb 29, 2016 17:35
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I concede the point, I guess I've been dicking around with older stuff. What do you use to remove the old urethane without eating the paintwork?
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Feb 29, 2016 17:36
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Knives and scrapers. It really sucks to do.
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Feb 29, 2016 17:56
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Generally you don't actually have to remove it, you just use a utility knife blade to shave it down within about 1/16-1/8 of an inch of the bond flange. Then put the bead of new urethane on top of it. If you do have to remove it (which usually is because there's rust on the bond flange and water is leaking between the urethane and the sheetmetal... this is why I've pulled the windshield on 3 of the cars I've done glass on! My aunt's Rav4, my white MJ, and my Justy. The Forester also had rust on the flange, but the glass guy and I only realized after we'd pulled the windshield) you have to clear all debris and rust down to bare metal. Then prep with phosphoric acid solution snapsticks, clean that off, reprime and paint if necessary, apply urethane primer, then you install the windshield just like you normally would. So a windshield install basically goes like this: - pull any/all trim that needs to get out of the way, wiper arms, wiper bezel, etc. Depends entirely on the car. - use specialized tools (sawzall with super flexy wide paddle blade for removing windshields, square wire cutter pulley setup, longassed utility knife blade holder, etc) to cut urethane bead all the way around, hopefully without scratching the paint in the windshield seat - inspect entire area for damage to paint, rust, etc. Repair as necessary. If the damage to the paint (chips and scratches down to metal from being clumsy removing the windshield, usually) is where the trim would cover it, normally you just clean it with solvent and then cover with urethane primer. A lazy installer won't even do this, which is how the next poor bastard has to fix the rust problem he created. One of my friends who does glass work has seen shady used car dealerships pick up lovely minivans from auction with horrible rust along the top of the windshield and booger the new glass in by urethaning it to the headliner and then bridge any/all gaps and holes with giant gobs of urethane to make it waterproof. Inspect the areas around the windshield carefully when buying a used car. - apply urethane primer anywhere it's needed - on any spots you had to clean up rust on the bond flange, etc. - testfit windshield. This is mostly so you know if it's marginally sized in any directions, how you need to clear any obstacles to get it in place right on the first try, etc. The guy who I helped do my Forester's windshield didn't do this, and we almost hosed up bad as a result. - clean bond area (the black paint on the inside of the windshield around the edges) with the specified glass cleaner. I'm partial to the 3M stuff. - apply a ~1/2" tall triangular bead of urethane adhesive all the way around. Make sure it's placed on the flange so that the windshield will overlap with it everywhere... for example on a 98-02 Forester with certain aftermarket (DOT rated) glass, you have to hug the extreme inboard edge of the flange on the A pillars or it'll barely hit the edge of the windshield when you set it. - Tool the ends of the bead together where they meet to make sure there won't be a path for water to leak through. - put some strips of removable plastic tape in place at the top of the windshield so you can tape it to the front of the roof to keep it from sliding down slowly while the urethane cures. Place some wedges/shims at the bottom to keep it from sliding down till it hits the sheetmetal at the base of the windshield, too. - stuff the windshield into the urethane, settle it to about the right spot (onto the shims), make sure it's adhered all the way around and even side to side, then wait a little while and put the trim back in, you're done. I know people who have put windshields in with bathtub caulking because they didn't like the $15-30/tube price of urethane... and others who have skipped the rust repair or didn't use urethane primer, because they didn't like the $30/tinybottle price of primer. It always ends badly. e: this is by far my favorite way to remove a windshield. Except I like to use the square-profile razor wire instead of zipline. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdiqxLhtfFc kastein fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Feb 29, 2016 |
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Feb 29, 2016 18:03
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We used to do the old trucks without having to call a windscreen guy in, but they just had a rubber seal around the window so it was easy with some string and a few people to help. How long would you expect to take for all that kastein? The book time for a new truck with a bonded screen is 4.8 hours...!
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Feb 29, 2016 19:39
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The first time I ever did it myself it took 4-5 hours, but I was being extremely careful (since I'd never done it before) and had several feet of rusted bonding flange to clean up, paint, and apply urethane primer to. I also used a chunk of a pinecone and a half rotted cedar shingle as shims and duct taped the top of the glass to the roof, but hey, whatever, it sealed great and never gave me problems again, at least till the chassis rotted out so badly that it cracked due to chassis flex while I was offroading. If you don't run into significant problems and it's warm out (warm cured urethane is significantly easier to cut than cold, it's rock hard in the cold) it can pretty easily be done in under an hour on many vehicles. The only reason I don't do all my own glass myself is because in my state, by law, comprehensive coverage includes $0 deductible glass coverage. You can usually do a windshield with about $40-50 in urethane, primer, knife blades, phosphoric acid snapsticks, etc plus the cost of the gasket (30-50) and glass panel, but it's real hard to beat $0. Which is why I usually have it done by the company my friend works for, that way I can take some time to be really meticulous about paintchip sealing and rust removal/recoating while he watches instead of getting some dude who just wants to slap the glass in and run. He even gave me a big pile of the phosphoric acid snapsticks and square razor wire last time, so I can have the glass out and all the rust prepped for him by the time he shows up, makes everyone's lives easier
kastein fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Feb 29, 2016 |
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Feb 29, 2016 20:19
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The one time I've actually had to replace a windshield, the dude had a sawsall with a little attachment that looked like a paint scraper. He just went at the old windshield with it to more or less cut the old stuff. Then he used 2 tubes of some sort of windshield goo. Living in CO, you basically get to replace the windshield every 20-30k miles simply due to the amount of sand pitting on the windshield. Between the assholes that drive dirt haulers constantly dumping poo poo on the road (NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR BROKEN WINDSHIELDS) and the snow plows dumping dirt on the road, it's drat near impossible to keep your windshield in good shape. As for personal mechanical failures, I'm planning on yanking the body off the pan this week on my 58 so I can actually get back to working on it. I figure doing this alone will end in tragedy. Going to have to come up with some sort of lever system to get it removed. e: almost forgot. Last Wednesday as I was heading from 1 site to another, I saw a towncar get on the freeway and have its hood fly open and slam the windshield/roof. Dude handled it amazingly well. Luckily he was already in the right lane. Need to get a new dashcam. veedubfreak fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Feb 29, 2016 |
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Feb 29, 2016 20:23
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IIRC new urethane bonds better to old urethane than to paint, so leaving behind a sliver is a 'better' way to go. I may be totally wrong or this may have been mentioned above.
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Feb 29, 2016 20:30
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e: Yes, you're correct. As long as the old urethane is a freshly cut, clean surface, newly applied urethane bonds very very well to it. Any other surface you have to use the special $15-a-bottle urethane bond primer I've linked below before applying urethane. This kind of blade? That's the one I've seen used for windshield removal. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0055Q1LUC?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_sfl_title_8&smid=A2GK5KIMOL3COC The goo was probably something like this: http://www.amazon.com/3M-08609-Wind...=3m+window+weld While I'm dumping a list of "poo poo you should use if you want to do your own windshield install", get two or three of the big harbor freight dual-cup lever actuated suction cups, and here's the urethane primer you want to use wherever you had to remove and repaint a rusted area: http://www.amazon.com/3M-08682-Single-Step-Primer/dp/B00473W5V8/ref=pd_bxgy_263_img_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0MB9SDV1M0YXC61H9M97 Here's the best glass cleaner in the world: http://www.amazon.com/3M-3004-7846-...F5195S2AANAYFPH This is the bigass utility knife blade holder for use removing windshields when the paddle blade and sawzall won't do the job: http://www.amazon.com/ATD-8562-Prof...QE7N8B4TWFSQDR6 Here's the square stainless steel razor wire to use, if you get the pulley style windshield removal tools, or use some pliers or something. DO NOT try to hold onto this with your hands. http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/equalizer-squire-windshield-cut-out-wire-p-28875.aspx?gclid=CJ3EvdHancsCFdiRHwod8lYLNQ I can't find the phosphoric acid snapsticks anywhere. They're basically little single-use tubes full of phosphoric acid with a fibrous dauber built in that you snap the end off of, almost like single use loctite or superglue tubes. e2: If you buy the stainless razor wire, you can use it with the HF wire windshield removal toolkit, just toss the lovely braided wire it comes with and use the frogsticker and handles from their kit, they're alright. You'll have to repeatedly feed the wire further and further into the handles instead of just using the pulley toolkit but you save 3 figures in the process so it's worth it. Don't try to use the harbor freight right-angle blade style windshield removal tool, it loving sucks. All of the right angle blade style ones suck, but the HF one is in a class of its own when it comes to suckitude. kastein fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Feb 29, 2016 |
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Feb 29, 2016 20:33
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veedubfreak posted:The one time I've actually had to replace a windshield, the dude had a sawsall with a little attachment that looked like a paint scraper. He just went at the old windshield with it to more or less cut the old stuff. Then he used 2 tubes of some sort of windshield goo. Living in CO, you basically get to replace the windshield every 20-30k miles simply due to the amount of sand pitting on the windshield. Between the assholes that drive dirt haulers constantly dumping poo poo on the road (NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR BROKEN WINDSHIELDS) and the snow plows dumping dirt on the road, it's drat near impossible to keep your windshield in good shape. have 2-3 friends? I think it was 3-4 guys that took the ghia body off when I had it.
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Feb 29, 2016 20:34
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My old Supra had the radio antenna embedded in the windshield glass. Helped make it damned good-looking car, but I'd hate to think of the replacement cost. especially today.
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Feb 29, 2016 20:48
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tater_salad posted:have 2-3 friends? I think it was 3-4 guys that took the ghia body off when I had it. I'm guessing me and my neighbor should be ok. It's a ragtop so it's missing around 6sqft of roof and all the body panels are off already. The tricky part is building some sort of contraption that will allow me to both move the shell and pan while still being able to stow them in the same place, cause I'll be damned if I'm parking my brand new car outside the garage.
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Feb 29, 2016 21:20
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Phanatic posted:My old Supra had the radio antenna embedded in the windshield glass. I don't think it changes much, since all of them had it, the aftermarket glass has it. A little additional labor to connect it. It didn't significantly affect the replacement cost on my '70 Olds Cutlass, and it was optional on those.
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Feb 29, 2016 21:20
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You'd be surprised, the manufacturing process for that really isn't too too expensive. It's basically the same as a rear windscreen defrost grid, in fact. Many Foresters have the AM/FM antenna built into the rear left quarter window pane, and some subarus with the winter package have a defrost grid for the windshield wipers at the base of the windshield. The only reason a windshield like that is expensive is if it's a rare option, so cost per unit to manufacture is higher simply because there aren't as many of them being made. If all supras for several years got that feature, it really shouldn't be an expensive windshield. e: f, b
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Feb 29, 2016 21:22
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Phanatic posted:My old Supra had the radio antenna embedded in the windshield glass. Its not just the stuff in the windscreen, its the stuff attached to it as well. Rain sensor and forward looking lane monitoring cameras all need calibrating afterwards. From personal experience lane monitoring cameras are a loving pain in the rear end to calibrate. Hang a massive 2m x 2m canvas on the wall covered in patterns, evenly lit with no creases and put the truck millimetre perfect lined up with it and keep adjusting the camera until the computer is happy THEN road test it. But there has to be visible road markings AND it needs to be in traffic or it won't complete and you will drive around forever. Oh and that takes 2 people because one person needs to stare at the laptop. That turned into a bit of a rant but even though the camera is placed in the same position on the windscreen it still threw up a fault saying it was out of calibration. It knew man 
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Feb 29, 2016 21:27
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Jesus, that is the dumbest poo poo. No wonder book time on that new truck you mentioned is so high for a windshield replacement.
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Feb 29, 2016 21:37
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In New Zealand you don't need special tools to remove a windscreen, you just need some Keas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBdvRCkCNfo
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Feb 29, 2016 23:48
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Australia has all crazy poisonous things that kill you, New Zealand has birds that murder police cars. I guess NZ wins the competition on places I want to move to after the next presidential election.
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Mar 1, 2016 00:26
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kastein posted:e: this is by far my favorite way to remove a windshield. Except I like to use the square-profile razor wire instead of zipline. I guess you haven't used one of these: 
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Mar 1, 2016 02:05
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kastein posted:Australia has all crazy poisonous things that kill you, New Zealand has birds that murder police cars. It's a Holden so the birds are optional as far as spontaneous destruction goes.
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Mar 1, 2016 03:30
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Nomex posted:I guess you haven't used one of these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDmi9JSga6I
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Mar 1, 2016 03:37
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RIP.
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Mar 1, 2016 05:59
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At least nothing of value was lost
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Mar 1, 2016 08:09
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`Nemesis posted:At least nothing of value was lost The coal rolled him.
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Mar 1, 2016 08:19
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`Nemesis posted:At least nothing of value was lost Somewhere a car exhaust fetishist is crying and he doesn't know why.
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Mar 1, 2016 11:05
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You Am I posted:In New Zealand you don't need special tools to remove a windscreen, you just need some Keas Reminds me of the photo that made the rounds on Tumblr awhile back of a Macbook with all the keys pulled off and a very smug looking cockatoo (cockatiel? the one with grey body and pink head) sitting on it. Which, y'know, that's what birds do, my African Grey's cage is 1/4" bars, because he could chew through anything smaller. And then the followup from the OP: "I'm Australian, this is a wild bird that flew in through the window." 
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Mar 1, 2016 13:02
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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Phanatic posted:My old Supra had the radio antenna embedded in the windshield glass. So did 1973 Mazda RX4s. I haven't seen one for ages though, most RX4s around these days have a regular windscreen with a radio antenna mounted on the front quarter panel. I don't think embedded antennas were available aftermarket in the 80s,90s etc. In fact I'd be surprised if you could buy an rx4 windscreen at all these days in my state. Fo3 fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Mar 1, 2016 |
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Mar 1, 2016 15:02
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I broke the windshield in my last car by slapping the plastic sun shade down a bit too hard. This is a thing that actually happened.
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Mar 1, 2016 15:23
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Nomex posted:I guess you haven't used one of these: I actually linked a very similar flex paddle blade in the same post - I like the razor wire setup because it's basically impossible to overshoot and gouge the paint, since you're pulling away from the painted area. The only thing you have to be careful about is when you jab it through in the first place with the frogsticker. `Nemesis posted:At least nothing of value was lost Place your bets. Hillrod-fabricated trans/oil cooler that leaked on the exhaust, or shoddy wiring? sandoz posted:I broke the windshield in my last car by slapping the plastic sun shade down a bit too hard. This is a thing that actually happened. I busted one by pulling the shift knob off my auto trans floor shifter once. And another by gently tossing my cellphone onto the dash when it crashed (AGAIN, gently caress you blackberry, never again) while I was trying to use my GPS app. Windshields are super easy to break from the inside. e: it looks like RX-4 windshields are the FW00295 and 00296 depending on whether it's a coupe or station wagon, and what year it is, and yeah, neither one is available via any of the usual auto parts retailers I use. That sucks. kastein fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Mar 1, 2016 |
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Mar 1, 2016 16:05
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kastein posted:Place your bets. Hillrod-fabricated trans/oil cooler that leaked on the exhaust, or shoddy wiring? Too much boost. eBay boost.
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Mar 1, 2016 16:57
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`Nemesis posted:At least nothing of value was lost I was thinking about this the other day when a brotruck was searing the back of my head with his headlights. How is this even legal to have a vehicle where the bumper is at the roof line of most other vehicles on the road and the headlights are at eye level.
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Mar 1, 2016 17:33
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SA_Ew9QSTw
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Mar 1, 2016 17:41
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veedubfreak posted:I was thinking about this the other day when a brotruck was searing the back of my head with his headlights. How is this even legal to have a vehicle where the bumper is at the roof line of most other vehicles on the road and the headlights are at eye level. It's not legal in most states, and its not DOT legal but enforcement is by state and they generally don't enforce it.
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Mar 1, 2016 19:24
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When I comes to stuff like that I apply this easy test to determine how likely it is that someone might actually get ticketed for it: Is this a vehicle or vehicle modification likely to be driven or modified by the same type of person likely to become a cop or statie? If so, its exceedingly unlikely that a cop will ever issue a ticket for it.
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Mar 1, 2016 20:45
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wilfredmerriweathr posted:When I comes to stuff like that I apply this easy test to determine how likely it is that someone might actually get ticketed for it: Exception being, putting any kind of flashing light on a white crown vic.
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Mar 1, 2016 20:49
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You Am I posted:In New Zealand you don't need special tools to remove a windscreen, you just need some Keas Oh man. Years ago on vacation with my dad we did a drive-thru nature park thing somewhere down south. One part was optional, it was the monkey area. There were big signs saying "NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR DAMAGE", but we figured it was just rear end-covering, so we did the monkey drive. We ended up with a monkey sitting on one of the side mirrors. Ha ha look at his little dingus, oh where's he going? The little dude jumps up on the roof, and soon enough we start seeing tar and sealant dribbling down the top of the windscreen. It was a super hot day, and the little prick just grabbed ahold of the windscreen seal and zippered it right off of there. Then ran off dragging it behind him, the little fucker probably had a nice little stash of car parts. Then on the next stage of highway driving a kicked-up rock hit the windscreen and cracked it anyway. So we spent a day of our vacation at a chevy dealer getting a new one put on. For content, the continuing adventures of chinese harbor freight air compressor.  Or you could title it "Jesus loving christ this is the safety burst disc too" I guess the shadenfreude is me. See, a while back something was rattling in the head, so I pulled it off but messed up the gasket. I was getting to needing the compressor for something in the future, so I decided to take the head back off and cut a new gasket. Got that finished, bolt it back down and the air line fitting cracks. So I spent the money on fittings and air line to fix that, and immediately the pressure valve fails. So I order a replacement from ebay, it arrives and I bolt that on, and ha ha now the cut-out air line needs replaced. So I replace that, and it runs for a day before the original air line springs a leak. So I start wrenching it off, and the fitting above just crumbles into dust. I probably spent $50 trying to fix the thing, when I should have just junked it and done what I just did, picked up a name brand.
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Mar 2, 2016 01:19
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