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Secret Agent X23 posted:I'm going to admit I never got the Skyler hate. I mean, what the hell? A mild-mannered family man suddenly becoming a meth-cooking criminal mastermind in middle age is...well, so far beyond the pale that I don't even want to think about it happening in real life. She's entitled to any reaction she wants. Seriously. The Skyler hate comes from the fact that she was intolerable before she found out about the whole secret meth empire thing. She was entitled to whatever reaction she wanted post meth-revelation but people still gave her poo poo for it mostly because of inertia, because up until that point she had been awful. She was a boring and underdeveloped character whose appearance usually signaled the least interesting scenes in the show. All of this changed somewhere in I think Season 2 when she started to suspect the secret meth empire and receive actual character development and become someone who is reacting negatively to being put in a terrible situation rather than for no real reason. But a lot of people continued to hate her because they'd already been treated to a season and a half of "Skyler nags Walt, Walt tells her some bullshit that she apparently believes but then she continues to try and snoop around or meddle with things because otherwise her character has no reason to exist and would be banished back to the Breakfast Dimension with Walt Jr." and had already formed a strong opinion on the character.
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Mar 18, 2016 07:44
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I like Chuck. While he's self righteous I have sympathy for his resentment towards his brother and his feelings of insecurity. And he is ultimately right about how dangerous it could be if Jimmy became a successful lawyer. edit: also it's not just Chuck who believes that about Jimmy. It was made a point in season 1 that people can see the Saul Goodman in Jimmy even at first glance. That's what makes me really like the drama of the show, you want to root for Jimmy and Mike but you know their fates are sealed. Automata 10 Pack fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 07:46
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cock hero flux posted:The Skyler hate comes from the fact that she was intolerable before she found out about the whole secret meth empire thing. She was entitled to whatever reaction she wanted post meth-revelation but people still gave her poo poo for it mostly because of inertia, because up until that point she had been awful. She was a boring and underdeveloped character whose appearance usually signaled the least interesting scenes in the show. All of this changed somewhere in I think Season 2 when she started to suspect the secret meth empire and receive actual character development and become someone who is reacting negatively to being put in a terrible situation rather than for no real reason. But a lot of people continued to hate her because they'd already been treated to a season and a half of "Skyler nags Walt, Walt tells her some bullshit that she apparently believes but then she continues to try and snoop around or meddle with things because otherwise her character has no reason to exist and would be banished back to the Breakfast Dimension with Walt Jr." and had already formed a strong opinion on the character. Thank you.
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Mar 18, 2016 07:50
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Das Boo posted:I liked Skyler and Hank. Despite their faults and weaknesses, they were both ultimately good people. I dislike Chuck because people who gently caress you over while acting saintly piss me off in real life. That said, I enjoy watching Chuck and think he's very well-written. I don't want him to leave the show because he's a dynamic character and a good source of contention. But I do think he's a prick. nah Hank was a douchebag.. He put Jesse in the hospital over a prank phone call and later he was almost gleeful at the prospect of sending him to his death so he could get Walt. He generally treated criminals with disdain and contemp and basically didn't consider them real people because his self-worth was all wrapped up in being a Tough Good Guy - the badder they are and the harder he is on them the tougher and gooder he is.
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Mar 18, 2016 07:50
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Lutha Mahtin posted:Chuck is the Skyler of BCS, and all the raging hate-boners directed at him become car-wreck funny once you accept this obvious fact. The writers perfectly baited all the bigots who hated on Skyler but were eventually shamed into shutting up, simply by swapping out one class of person for another. Misogyny is of course alive and well in America but even the most hardened douchebags often know that expressing it out loud will get them shunned; not so with Chuck, who is fair game because he has sadbrains and is therefore probably Patrick Bateman (duh). But even if the writers didn't do it on purpose, it's still hilarious to watch goons make gigantic asses of themselves over him. For example, see the following expert diagnosis provided by a graduate of prestigious Cringe University: People who judge rich white men based on things they say and do are the real bigots. Trump 2016.
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Mar 18, 2016 08:46
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"Prank call" is a kind of understated way to describe convincing someone their spouse is dying so you can get away with drug manufacturing.
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Mar 18, 2016 08:54
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FuriousxGeorge posted:"Prank call" is a kind of understated way to describe convincing someone their spouse is dying so you can get away with drug manufacturing. Nah bro, it's just a prank.
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Mar 18, 2016 09:18
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FuriousxGeorge posted:"Prank call" is a kind of understated way to describe convincing someone their spouse is dying so you can get away with drug manufacturing. It did play out like most prank videos however. 
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Mar 18, 2016 09:19
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Chuck is a great character but a poo poo person. Loving Jimmy or not is irrelevant to that because you can love someone and still be horribly abusive to them. For as much as people say Chuck was right and that Jimmy really would never change, I think it's only because of what Chuck did, a self fulfilling prophecy. The advertisement only happens after Jimmy stops really caring about being a lawyer-he's only doing it to be close to Kim and in effect deny his true purpose as a conman, so he's not very principled and plays by his own rules. But would that really be the case if he had gotten a job at HHM all those years ago? Or even with the Sandpiper case? After he finds out about what Chuck's been doing, he lost all his "good" aspirations. Saul Goodman is Chuck's creation.
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Mar 18, 2016 10:03
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Cybershell posted:Nah bro, it's just a prank. He got punk'd E: back about the class action, are those suits even for the benefit of the victims or are they just big money for lawyers because every time I see payouts go out everyone gets like 25 cents
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Mar 18, 2016 10:07
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Jimmy would never change enough to fit in at HHM . The writers have been hitting us over the head with that, right down to not being able to leave the "don't turn off this switch" switch alone. See rule, bend/break rule, he can't help himself. He couldn't even improve with his healthy relationship with Kim as motivation. The only thing Chuck has done wrong is hiding behind Hamlin rather than being upfront with Jimmy from the start.
DAAS Kapitalist fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 10:19
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Bleh Maestro posted:E: back about the class action, are those suits even for the benefit of the victims or are they just big money for lawyers because every time I see payouts go out everyone gets like 25 cents
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Mar 18, 2016 10:19
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I thought Skyler was a bit annoying in the very first episode, because who the gently caress gives a man veggie bacon on his fiftieth birthday, but everything she does after that is a reaction to Walt being lovely. I'm only aware that she's apparently widely hated because people keep saying she is. Chuck and Jimmy's relationship is very different from Walt and his family's, because it very much goes both ways. Chuck inflicted a psychosomatic disorder on himself and spent an entire season manipulating Jimmy while keeping his ultimate goal out of reach, just because Jimmy wanted to practice law, and this season we're starting to see how Jimmy's convincing himself that Chuck is the agent of every setback that happens around him.
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Mar 18, 2016 11:04
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I don't think it's totally unreasonable to dislike Skyler in the first season because as far as she knows she is complaining about the behavior of a man who is acting out because he is dying. I mean, give him a little more slack maybe? But I think most of it is just the family side of the drama interrupts the crime side of it and a lot of people find the crime stuff more interesting. I'd rather watch shows like The Wire where the family drama is very far in the background. It took time to realize how important, entertaining, and essential it was in BB.
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Mar 18, 2016 11:07
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cock hero flux posted:The Skyler hate comes from the fact that she was intolerable before she found out about the whole secret meth empire thing. She was entitled to whatever reaction she wanted post meth-revelation but people still gave her poo poo for it mostly because of inertia, because up until that point she had been awful. I get why people hate Chuck too - he's kind of an rear end and is often opposing our hero character. But Jimmy consistently demonstrated a pattern of behavior that got him in trouble and required Chuck to bail him out, as well as conduct that is clearly unacceptable for a lawyer. Kim is more fair to Jimmy because she doesn't have the long history with him that Chuck does. Of course the healthiest thing for them all would be to  , but there we are.
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Mar 18, 2016 11:08
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hiddenmovement posted:The members of Team Hank would like a word Hank was boorish and racist though. Plus he was tough as nails and knew what the risks he was taking given his line of work. Skyler, on the other hand, is a semiretired bookkeeper and homemaker who, when we meet her, is super pregnant and ends up caught in this web of drugs and violence and money laundering partly because of choices she makes but mostly because her husband hosed up real bad. Hank Schrader: cop who wants to catch Heisenberg is a guy worth rooting for don't get me wrong. All I mean is that if I actually knew someone like that I probably wouldn't want to be around them for very long.
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Mar 18, 2016 12:56
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If you finished Breaking Bad not thinking that Walt is the worst person on the show (though not the worst character), then I don't know what to tell you 
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Mar 18, 2016 13:19
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Haha a prank call. I've seen it all now
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Mar 18, 2016 13:26
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:If you finished Breaking Bad not thinking that Walt is the worst person on the show (though not the worst character), then I don't know what to tell you Oh, without a doubt. Walt was, objectively speaking, a monster. But on the flip-side, if you were sitting there during something like the "Say my name" scene and the only emotion you felt in that moment was self-righteous loathing toward Walter White, then I'd argue you missed the point of the show just as hard as the people who thought Walt did literally nothing wrong.
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Mar 18, 2016 13:38
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:If you finished Breaking Bad not thinking that Walt is the worst person on the show (though not the worst character), then I don't know what to tell you Well someone forgot about the literal Neo Nazis...
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Mar 18, 2016 13:42
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AAA DOLFAN posted:Haha a prank call. I've seen it all now Ok it's not the right term but he's still a self-righteous, arrogant douchebag.
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Mar 18, 2016 13:46
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Cape Cod Crab Chip posted:Well someone forgot about the literal Neo Nazis... Well, ok, fair enough. BUT STILL!  And I agree, that he definitely had badass scenes, countered of course by not giving a gently caress that Todd outright murders a kid.
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Mar 18, 2016 13:47
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I began understanding Chuck when they had the conversation in the house last episode, he's still a dickbag and a negative influence, but he's ultimately right about Jimmy, he really can't help himself. The whole advertisement was such a dumb loving move that he made for no reason at all other than to satisfy himself, he doesn't have anyone else to blame for that one.
Hakkesshu fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 13:50
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cock hero flux posted:The Skyler hate comes from the fact that she was intolerable before she found out about the whole secret meth empire thing. She was entitled to whatever reaction she wanted post meth-revelation but people still gave her poo poo for it mostly because of inertia, because up until that point she had been awful. She was a boring and underdeveloped character whose appearance usually signaled the least interesting scenes in the show. All of this changed somewhere in I think Season 2 when she started to suspect the secret meth empire and receive actual character development and become someone who is reacting negatively to being put in a terrible situation rather than for no real reason. But a lot of people continued to hate her because they'd already been treated to a season and a half of "Skyler nags Walt, Walt tells her some bullshit that she apparently believes but then she continues to try and snoop around or meddle with things because otherwise her character has no reason to exist and would be banished back to the Breakfast Dimension with Walt Jr." and had already formed a strong opinion on the character. Interesting. I didn't have that perspective because I didn't start watching BB until somewhere along in the third season. I caught up with a combination of Netflix binging and the DVR. So I wasn't really much aware of Skyler hate, because I wasn't paying attention to discussions of the show, until I had gotten past the part where she finds out what he's doing. I can see how what she does before finding out might be looked at as intolerable. But I tend to look at a lot of that kind of stuff from the writers' point of view. There has to be tension at home resulting from his need to keep his activity a secret from the family. If someone wants to say that part of it could have been handled better (or even a lot better), I don't have much to counter that. It probably could have been. And if she'd been constantly supportive and steadfast throughout that early part even with his erratic behavior, people would have given her poo poo for that, too. "Skyler's boring as gently caress!" I guess I'm saying there's a fine balance there, and maybe they didn't find it.
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Mar 18, 2016 14:25
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Secret Agent X23 posted:Interesting. I didn't have that perspective because I didn't start watching BB until somewhere along in the third season. I caught up with a combination of Netflix binging and the DVR. So I wasn't really much aware of Skyler hate, because I wasn't paying attention to discussions of the show, until I had gotten past the part where she finds out what he's doing. I don't think it's necessarily bad writing, Hank and Marie were also pretty irritating at the beginning of the show. A character being kind of a jerk isn't bad writing, and I think the only reason it might be a problem is because it might've prevented some people from sympathizing with Skyler as much when she was actually facing hard times. But that's more the fault of TV watchers who can never be made to realize their first impression was wrong rather than a fault of the writing. However, I did read an article that talked about how the show was shot and edited in such a way as to subconsciously make the viewer empathize and identify with Walter, so perhaps that has something to do with people's reluctance to think of him as the bad guy, too. Beeez fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 15:16
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Beeez posted:I don't think it's necessarily bad writing, Hank and Marie were also pretty irritating at the beginning of the show. A character being kind of a jerk isn't bad writing, and I think the only reason it might be a problem is because it might've prevented some people from sympathizing with Skyler as much when she was actually facing hard times. But that's more the fault of TV watchers who can never be made to realize their first impression was wrong rather than a fault of the writing. However, I did read an article that talked about how the show was shot and edited in such a way as to subconsciously make the viewer empathize and identify with Walter, so perhaps that has something to do with people's reluctance to think of him as the bad guy, too. Right. And I was careful to avoid the label "bad writing" when I wrote my little thing. Besides, one man's intriguingly spirited woman is another man's shewish bitch (in a more general sense—not saying Skyler herself falls at either extreme). The "fine line" I mentioned isn't absolute; it's just where you might come closest to getting a consensus among viewers. So.
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Mar 18, 2016 15:39
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Secret Agent X23 posted:Right. And I was careful to avoid the label "bad writing" when I wrote my little thing. Besides, one man's intriguingly spirited woman is another man's shewish bitch (in a more general sense—not saying Skyler herself falls at either extreme). The "fine line" I mentioned isn't absolute; it's just where you might come closest to getting a consensus among viewers. So. Well, I was referring to where you said it could've been done better. But maybe bad writing is too strong a word for what you were talking about.
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Mar 18, 2016 16:04
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I'll chime in and say I never cared for Skyler early on and that was because she came off as a micromanage-y, bossy person...that was sort of how she was introduced and didn't really give a great impression. Later, she becomes interesting, and they actually write her a personality with depth, something that was never shown early on. It was just a matter of bad impressions with Skyler early on, her development came later...too late for me. I always loved Marie from day one because she was so over-the-top irritating and controlling, it was almost cartoonish. Her brand of irritating was also laced with an eccentricity I found amusing. The whole klepto thing and weird lying thing added a delicious layer of what the gently caress to her character which I found refreshing, and later, also sad (the thing with looking at houses). The purple thing was also definitely 'her'...and whoever mentioned how she stopped wearing it after Hank's death reminded me of how goddamn sad it was, seeing her on the phone wearing black, and how she never again wore anything but black/grey. Hank pissed me off from day one because he was a douche. But when he started having his anxiety attacks, he gained depth and became a 'real' character for me. After a while I loved him. It says a lot about the show and its writing when it does this to you, having you begin by never caring for a character at first and then you just love them later - or when you're on the main character's side at first, and then he gradually become more and more unlikable to the point of being a monster. Yet you watch anyway because you're invested. MadSparkle fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 16:10
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It's so funny to me when people jump on the "anyone who dislikes Skyler is a misogynist" bandwagon. Like, you must be completely incapable of stepping outside yourself to assume that. In-universe, I disliked Skyler because her morals were so wishy-washy. One day she'd be completely hateful and disgusted by Walt (not saying this isn't justified) and then the next she'd be a Queen-Pin. Regardless, she was obviously under a ridiculously straining situation so I don't hate her or anything I just find her kind of annoying. Beyond that, like people have said, I thought she was an underwhelming and under-developed character. Walt was a monster but at least he was interesting to watch.
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Mar 18, 2016 16:21
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Beeez posted:Well, I was referring to where you said it could've been done better. But maybe bad writing is too strong a word for what you were talking about. I don't think that "it could have been done better" necessarily means it's bad, although it could. I wouldn't say Skyler is bad writing because I don't think it's necessary for the audience to see her as a sympathetic character. Walter is the main character, and his situation at home is...well, it's whatever it happens to be. That said, I think it's better if there's some sympathy for her because then, the audience perceives more to be at stake.
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Mar 18, 2016 16:24
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It's a stretch, but maybe it was deliberate to write her as annoyingly bossy in the beginning to make Walt even more sympathetic, even though he didn't need any additional help looking that way at first. You just feel he's so goddamn pathetic in his own life from day one, the distracted hand job and no remember that's the credit card we don't use thing was like unnecessary overkill. If that's the case, it kind of backfired, because her development felt like it came too late somehow. EDIT: oops, just read the earlier posts essentially saying the same thing I just did MadSparkle fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 16:55
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Yeah, Walt and Jesse were murderous pieces of poo poo and the world would have been much better off without them. It's scary how much you, as the viewer, sympathise with them. It's very hard to be objective about people in life. Saul/Jimmy is a huge piece of poo poo too, but holy poo poo is he likeable.
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Mar 18, 2016 17:11
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Jesse at least felt bad about all the things he did.
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Mar 18, 2016 17:13
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And then there's Nacho. I mean, at this point, they've almost got me feeling as if I could sit down and have a couple beers with him and watch the ball game and shoot the poo poo.
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Mar 18, 2016 17:18
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Cojawfee posted:Jesse at least felt bad about all the things he did. What's the worst thing that Jesse did without Walt's hand guiding him? Trying to move crystal at an NA meeting seems particularly scummy.
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Mar 18, 2016 17:19
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Secret Agent X23 posted:And then there's Nacho. I mean, at this point, they've almost got me feeling as if I could sit down and have a couple beers with him and watch the ball game and shoot the poo poo. Maybe share some chips with melted cheese? Hmm?
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Mar 18, 2016 17:23
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THA TITTY THRILLER posted:What's the worst thing that Jesse did without Walt's hand guiding him? Trying to move crystal at an NA meeting seems particularly scummy. To be fair he was in a really lovely state of mind and I don't think would have ever done that otherwise. TBH He never instigated anything very bad, except just being a general lowlife to begin with but never a "bad" person.
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Mar 18, 2016 17:24
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I mean, he was making and distributing meth before Walt ever even met him...
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Mar 18, 2016 17:26
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waitwhatno posted:Yeah, Walt and Jesse were murderous pieces of poo poo and the world would have been much better off without them. It's scary how much you, as the viewer, sympathise with them. It's very hard to be objective about people in life. Huh? I guess Gale would be an example but that was more the fault of Walt and Gus. Jesse just got caught in the crossfire with no way out and he absolutely hated himself for it. He certainly was un-repentant about other parts of his life but he was never murderous.
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Mar 18, 2016 17:28
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THA TITTY THRILLER posted:What's the worst thing that Jesse did without Walt's hand guiding him? Trying to move crystal at an NA meeting seems particularly scummy. - he got Jane back into drugs - he caused Andrea's death, leaving Brock an orphan - he scammed his parents out of the house
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Mar 18, 2016 17:29
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