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DeimosRising posted:everyone knows who's a Good Hydra and who's a Bad Hydra. Reminder that Captain America's literal policy for how to tell SHIELD from HYDRA is that HYDRA is the ones shooting at you
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Mar 30, 2016 20:20
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computer parts posted:There's no organic reason to actually like him (even in the context of the Justice League) outside of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". He's a comparatively normal person hanging out with alien star gods who regularly tries to punch the physical incarnation of all evil in the face. The fact he's super rich doesn't really matter in a situation like that. It's not like he's buying himself a better punch, or the total lack of any sort of foresight needed to think punching Space Satan in the face is good idea. People gonna like that guy. computer parts posted:Right, but SHIELD is not the government at large (at least at this point in time). If they were, Tony Stark would not be supporting them. "Just some baddies" that are literal Nazis that were able to fly under the radar because US policy was functionally identical to Nazi policy except for a few relatively minor tweaks. Like everyone thought floating death fortresses were fine, HYDRA just wanted to use them proactively. That's the only difference. We came up with the floating death fortresses. Short of having a loving pause to put a giant neon sign pointing at Robert Redford standing in front of a swastika that says "THIS IS YOU THE AUDIENCE" exactly how much criticism did you think it could fit in there? e: computer parts posted:So only under a specific context, one which is not present in this movie, is he "likable". In only the context of the movie [In which case, why bring up the JL? We know nothing of their character or actions.] you should like him because he's actually willing to admit how colossally he failed, and how much he needs to change. It's a trait most people don't possess. That's the point of redemption, the only people that need it actually did things that need to be redeemed. If you want to continue to hold that poo poo against him, well, what makes you any better than he is? Mulva fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Mar 30, 2016 |
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Mar 30, 2016 20:25
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Boogaleeboo posted:He's a comparatively normal person hanging out with alien star gods who regularly tries to punch the physical incarnation of all evil in the face. The fact he's super rich doesn't really matter in a situation like that. It's not like he's buying himself a better punch, or the total lack of any sort of foresight needed to think punching Space Satan in the face is good idea. People gonna like that guy. So only under a specific context, one which is not present in this movie, is he "likable". Good to know. Boogaleeboo posted:
Note that again, the "good guy" in Age of Ultron comes up with a floating death fortress and it's ok because he promises to only use it for good.
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Mar 30, 2016 20:30
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Boogaleeboo posted:He's a comparatively normal person hanging out with alien star gods who regularly tries to punch the physical incarnation of all evil in the face. The fact he's super rich doesn't really matter in a situation like that. It's not like he's buying himself a better punch, or the total lack of any sort of foresight needed to think punching Space Satan in the face is good idea. People gonna like that guy. The early criticism was "fine". The concluding take-away was not. Especially as we move forward into the next phase of the MCU.
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Mar 30, 2016 20:31
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Jose Oquendo posted:Speaking of the score, when Batman fights all those dudes at the end, there's a crazy synth thing going on. Is that on the soundtrack anywhere? I quickly went through a few tracks and couldn't find it. "Fight Night". It's listed as a bonus track on Spotify, so it's probably exclusive to digital versions of the soundtrack. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VZ074cg0Gg
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Mar 30, 2016 20:34
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Boogaleeboo posted:
I bring up the Justice League because they are the people most likely to trust him. For the average joe, there has never been a reason to like Batman other than "The script says I should like Batman". He's a fundamentally unlikable person.
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Mar 30, 2016 20:35
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broken clock opsec posted:The early criticism was "fine". The concluding take-away was not. Especially as we move forward into the next phase of the MCU. But of course the next part of the MCU is quite literally addressing that dichotomy in Civil War. Steve may think he can say "We'll it's ok when we are the secret police because we are the good guys", and he may even be right for himself, but that doesn't mean it's realistic or won't have consequences. It's absolutely fair to address a movie on it's own merits and what it says, but it was never really intended to be the final word on the subject. It's just the end of that chapter of it in that particular movie. computer parts posted:I bring up the Justice League because they are the people most likely to trust him. For the average joe, there has never been a reason to like Batman other than "The script says I should like Batman". He's a fundamentally unlikable person. For the average Joe, the law is a relatively meaningless concept and he beats up rapists and murderers and, as far as it goes, has never meaningfully hosed up and drawn innocent people into his shenanigans before BvS. Vast swaths of the population would love him for that. Dana is probably more comfortable with brutalizing the poo poo out of her enemies than he is, so there's at least one person that wouldn't have an issue with him in the league. Aquaman seems pretty trident happy, probably not a problem there. And the Flash certainly didn't seem to have a problem coming back into time to warn him. Tell me, who exactly do you think would have an issue with him on the League?
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Mar 30, 2016 20:42
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The average Joe knows nothing about Batman except that he's a mysterious vigilante who fucks up criminals. They aren't privy to his internal monologue or his dark dreams, or the fact that he's constantly brooding, or that he's a dick to Alfred. Why wouldn't they like him?
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Mar 30, 2016 20:46
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Boogaleeboo posted:For the average Joe, the law is a relatively meaningless concept and he beats up rapists and murderers and, as far as it goes, has never meaningfully hosed up and drawn innocent people into his shenanigans before BvS. See, your problem is that you're approaching the situation with the omniscience of a reader, rather than a perspective of someone on the ground. The average person doesn't necessarily know that he only beats up rapists and murderers. Any random beating could easily be attributed to him because no one knows who he is. Also I'm not talking about just BvS, but Batman as a figure in general. That's why I said at the beginning "Batman has never been someone that average people like". Basebf555 posted:The average Joe knows nothing about Batman except that he's a mysterious vigilante who fucks up criminals. See again that's the issue - they hear that he beats up criminals, but they don't know if he's exclusively beating up criminals.
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Mar 30, 2016 20:47
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Random question, do they say Kal-El as much on MoS as they did on the old movies?
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Mar 30, 2016 20:47
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These supposed leaks about the Batman solo movie are currently driving 4chan nutsquote:>Ben Affleck is being courted to direct These rumours are gaining traction due a recent interview with Affleck's agent that sort of confirms a script for Batman is ready http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/ari-emanuel-patrick-whitesell-unleashed-879003 quote:Patrick, how long do you think Ben will want to play Batman? This picture of Leto's Joker also showed up, no idea if is legit but I think is pretty cool nonetheless 
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Mar 30, 2016 20:48
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There is a line in Byrne's Superman/Batman: Generations where Batman says "Crooks just aren't scared of me anymore. I shouldn't have gone to all those library openings."
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Mar 30, 2016 20:49
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computer parts posted:See again that's the issue - they hear that he beats up criminals, but they don't know if he's exclusively beating up criminals. And the Average Joe would be pondering that issue? No, Average Joe just says "gently caress yea, Batman put another criminal in the hospital" and goes on with his day to day life.
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Mar 30, 2016 20:51
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i would unironically like to see an affleck-directed batman
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Mar 30, 2016 20:52
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computer parts posted:So only under a specific context, one which is not present in this movie, is he "likable". In Avengers 1 when Captain America finds the Hydra weapons in the storeroom, Fury is kinda in the zone of "Hitler had some good ideas".
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Mar 30, 2016 20:53
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:You've already fallen into the trap, here, of defining the problem as the state. This is that false optimism: we just need a smaller state, deregulation or whatever. It's a libertarian film. The threat is never identified as the capitalist system. Are you equating state surveillance with economic regulations?
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Mar 30, 2016 20:53
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Basebf555 posted:And the Average Joe would be pondering that issue? No, Average Joe just says "gently caress yea, Batman put another criminal in the hospital" and goes on with his day to day life. Or they might say "this guy got beat up, I know a guy who was beaten up randomly, and he's a swell guy. Maybe it's the same person!" Remember - anything that will scare criminals will scare non-criminals more.
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Mar 30, 2016 20:53
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computer parts posted:Or they might say "this guy got beat up, I know a guy who was beaten up randomly, and he's a swell guy. Maybe it's the same person!" What? I don't remember that. Why am I supposed to accept that premise? There are plenty of things that would scare a criminal and not scare a non-criminal. I'm not afraid of drunk driving checkpoints for instance. Anyway, I don't think you're using the term "Average Joe" the same way that most people do.
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Mar 30, 2016 20:58
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computer parts posted:See again that's the issue - they hear that he beats up criminals, but they don't know if he's exclusively beating up criminals. I don't know Superman isn't off raping kids, why would I assume he is? computer parts posted:Or they might say "this guy got beat up, I know a guy who was beaten up randomly, and he's a swell guy. Maybe it's the same person!" People don't think like that. They are more likely to think "Batman should have killed him. With a bat! That would be ironic.". People are super down with the idea of punishing criminals in this country, and are far less likely to demonize behavior against them they would abhor if it was directed against 'real people'. Mulva fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Mar 30, 2016 |
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Mar 30, 2016 21:00
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Basebf555 posted:What? I don't remember that. Why am I supposed to accept that premise? Hint: this is not a Canon Batman Story™.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:01
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Literally The Worst posted:i would unironically like to see an affleck-directed batman On this we agree. That would be fantastic
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Mar 30, 2016 21:01
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Boogaleeboo posted:I don't know Superman isn't off raping kids, why would I assume he is? Spider-man: threat or menace?
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Mar 30, 2016 21:02
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RBA Starblade posted:Spider-man: threat or menace? Yeah exactly. It's funny the dweeby 16 year old fighting monsters gets all the criticism but the grown man beating up people doesn't.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:03
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computer parts posted:Hint: this is not a Canon Batman Story™. Who's talking about canon or any of that nonsense? You just stated an extremely broad premise as if its an accepted fact, is there some new study I'm not aware of that proves its impossible to scare criminals without also scaring non-criminals? Its realistic that a large amount of "average joes" would see Batman beat someone up and say to themselves "well, that guy must have done something wrong". I feel confident in saying that because it happens all the time in the real world. Sure, that guy was shot in the back by police, but he probably had it coming. Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Mar 30, 2016 |
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Mar 30, 2016 21:03
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Basebf555 posted:Who's talking about canon or any of that nonsense? You just stated an extremely broad premise as if its an accepted fact, is there some new study I'm not aware of that proves its impossible to scare criminals without also scaring non-criminals? You equated Batman with a drunk driving checkpoint.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:06
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computer parts posted:You equated Batman with a drunk driving checkpoint. I was responding to your overly broad statement/friendly reminder that "anything that scares criminals will scare non-criminals more". You're using that as reasoning for why the average person would be scared of Batman, even if they have no reason to conceivably ever cross paths with Batman. Its a flawed premise.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:10
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Justice League rumor, the Jared Leto Joker is dead in Suicide Squad and in fact revealed to be Jason Todd. He's also not the original Joker who is to be played by Walton Goggins driving a Jokermobile that looks like Walton Goggins because he's the Joker
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Mar 30, 2016 21:13
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I just saw The Hateful 8 last night, so yea, bring on more Walton Goggins please.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:19
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Art Alexakis posted:Justice League rumor, the Jared Leto Joker is dead in Suicide Squad and in fact revealed to be Jason Todd. He's also not the original Joker who is to be played by Walton Goggins driving a Jokermobile that looks like Walton Goggins because he's the Joker I would love this.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:20
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The Jokermobile will look roughly like this  It will have wheels
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Mar 30, 2016 21:27
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Darko posted:Wonder Woman's is, as well (although it shouldn't have played when looking at her picture). I thought everything about that reveal with the photo was perfect. Ben did an amazing job selling the look of a man coming to grips with his world not only harboring aliens anymore, but now immortals. When the music and realization hit, that poo poo gave me shivers.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:33
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Im seeing this again tomorrow with another set of friends - cannot wait to notice things like that.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:34
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Something I thought was kind of unintentionally hilarious in this movie. Bruce's email to Diana, especially the questions at the end.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:37
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Spacebump posted:Something I thought was kind of unintentionally hilarious in this movie. Bruce's email to Diana, especially the questions at the end. He's definitely on some Christian Grey poo poo
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Mar 30, 2016 21:41
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Basebf555 posted:You're using that as reasoning for why the average person would be scared of Batman, even if they have no reason to conceivably ever cross paths with Batman. The average citizen doesn't know that, that's the problem. Let me use an example from a different franchise - According to Marvel, when the Hulk is rampaging, Bruce Banner subconsciously influences him so that debris will never hit random civilians (because Banner is such a genius he can calculate that out). Therefore, we can say that the average citizen is in no way in danger when the Hulk is rampaging. Yet, would you say that an average citizen would not be fearful if the Hulk is around? I would personally be afraid, especially because I (as an average citizen) don't know that Banner is subtly influencing the Hulk. In the same way, an average citizen doesn't know that Batman only targets criminals. The average citizen only knows that Batman beats people up.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:43
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computer parts posted:In the same way, an average citizen doesn't know that Batman only targets criminals. The average citizen only knows that Batman beats people up. People like other people being beaten up, the fact the only ones he seems to be doing it to are criminals is just a bonus. He's doing this in America. It would be politicized, and a good half of the country would back him on general principle. He'd become as menacing to average folk as jokes about prison assaults. Something that is devastating to a subsection of the population they don't really consider human in the first place.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:57
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Boogaleeboo posted:People like other people being beaten up, the fact the only ones he seems to be doing it to are criminals is just a bonus. That's my point, he's not necessarily only beating up criminals. Any random beating that's not proven otherwise could conceivably have been from Batman.
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Mar 30, 2016 22:01
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Jenny Angel posted:He's definitely on some Christian Grey poo poo The actual canon couple has always been Bruce and Diana.
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Mar 30, 2016 22:02
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The actual canon couple has always been Bruce and Diana. Pretty sure that was only a brief thing in the comics. Batman's "canon" love interest is whoever the writer wants at the time.
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Mar 30, 2016 22:04
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Spacebump posted:Pretty sure that was only a brief thing in the comics. Batman's "canon" love interest is whoever the writer wants at the time. I'll always think fondly of you random black doctor who hosed off to some other country for some reason
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Mar 30, 2016 22:08
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