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You'll get better compression if you place onto separate belts and merge at the end, which you should have room to do by making that underground belt go a little bit further. The real solution, though, is just to have each circuit factory get fed directly by a component factory. Which saves you a ton of very fast belt, and also saves on express inserters since you can take advantage of stack size.
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Apr 5, 2016 09:17
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Do you need to worry about defending the big electric poles for your outposts, or do aliens ignore those?
Node fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Apr 5, 2016 |
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Apr 5, 2016 09:51
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Redesign: moved the fuel belt south, was smart-splitting the solid to fuel the copper train, turned into a normal splitter and let it carry on to where the old belt went. currently 2.3k/m but can go to 2.8k/m jabor: you're right about directly feeding them, i might do that if (when) this one starts lacking, and make some more down south to feed the rest of the circuit/module complex.
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Apr 5, 2016 10:02
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Node posted:Do you need to worry about defending the big electric poles for your outposts, or do aliens ignore those? They aim at the centre of the pollution. If a military building is found in the way, the attack that instead. So the big poles are ignored
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Apr 5, 2016 11:30
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:I'd like to borrow $200M
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I came to the conclusion that while running bob's mod and RSO ballisting turrets are better than laser one, mainly due to the electric consumption. (bobs mod -> way more turrets needed for much more space/mining outposts) The logistic hassle of automating the ammo production is minor compared to the benefit i got from the huge reduction in the electricity load.
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Apr 5, 2016 11:35
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Ratzap posted:I've been trying to use deciders and circuit networks more but for the stock game there's only really oil stuff where it's useful (aside from just reporting counts). I thought this picture might help the newer folk get into it. Do I have any lube at all in a tank (250-500, or 10s of production, whichever is higher)? If so, run the heavy cracker. Do I have any gas at all in a tank? If so, run medium to solid fuel. Running low on gas in the tank? Run the medium crackers. It can stop-start, but this isn't real life so production is instantaneous and it's not like it's about to break the equipment. If you've got the crackers and cube makers to outrun the refineries, the juggling naturally finds the uptime split that supplies all your gas and lube users, while turning every extra iota of petro products into rocket fuel. e. For reference, floating 2300 gas that for the sake of argument came from cracking medium is enough material for 1/3 of a rocket. zedprime fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Apr 5, 2016 |
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Apr 5, 2016 12:10
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I just spent half an hour chasing down a stray yellow underground belt. it's to the right of the lamp in my second screenshot
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Apr 5, 2016 13:07
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Zetsubou-san posted:5dim decorations to top it off.
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Apr 5, 2016 13:38
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the decorations are some statues and doodads - letters that light up at night - and colored concrete
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Apr 5, 2016 14:01
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How do you deal with aliens in the very beginning? I only have a pistol and a group of aliens just killed me, even when I was actually paying attention and shooting at them.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:17
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Aliens didn't attack me until well after I had some walls and turrets up. I don't know if I was just lucky, but you should have time to research walls and maybe turrets before they attack. It can also be dependent on your starting area I guess? If you have more trees, your pollution won't spread as far, buying you more time.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:22
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Also be extremely careful with burner miners. Those suckers output 10 pollution each, and it's really easy to lay down 10-15 and then get eaten by biters before you do anything else.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:28
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Always keep up with your military research. If you're just figuring out the game, Military 1 should be one of the first techs you go for after automating red science, and then crafting a better weapon to handle things if you tick off some biters. The starting pistol is garbage and struggles to even win 1v1s against lone biters. Once you've got that handled, make sure to build radars so you can see what's going on in your pollution cloud. If your pollution is hitting biter bases, prepare for attacks from that direction. If it's all clear, you can put it off for a bit (but keep an eye on things in case they decide to move back in or your pollution cloud gets bigger). If your pollution cloud is pushing outside your explored area, either prepare for attacks (just in case there's a biter base there), or build a radar out that way to scout it.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:34
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Also early research into military saves buildings. As soon as you have a shotgun you can take out nests more efficiently than spraying them with normal machine gun rounds. So long as you can kill the collective spawn of a group of nests without anything larger than a small worm you can slowly but surely pick it apart. Otherwise it's turrets and moving your production base further away from the problem until further research is made.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:34
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It was like 40 minutes in, I had a bunch of mines to extract coal, iron, and copper and not much else. No electricity yet, everything was coal-powered. Maybe that was the problem. I'm going to restart and pay more attention to alien nests.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:38
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uXs posted:It was like 40 minutes in, I had a bunch of mines to extract coal, iron, and copper and not much else. No electricity yet, everything was coal-powered. Maybe that was the problem. Get electricity up and running ASAP, burner miners and inserters put out wicked amounts of pollution compared to work done.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:42
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Zetsubou-san posted:I started a new map with SCT, RSO, Fat Controller, Greenhouse, the full bobs package (with config set to normal steel cost and cobalt mined from galena deposits), and 5dim decorations to top it off. Biter bases freq was set to low. bobs is the only mod i've used previously. That's pretty much our current MP game apart from some config differences. SCT is a hell of a monster to feed though it's the actual real time required that gets irritating to me. Those basic components and things like transistors that get used 5 at a time are a bitch to supply. It's easier to build special factories for each user than try to make one big super producer. Drone and Dred are trying to bus our game but the thing is over a screen wide now, there's too much stuff in bobs to have a full bus of everything. How many days played to get the research all done or did you skip the robot follower X crud. Zetsubou-san posted:the decorations are some statues and doodads - letters that light up at night - and colored concrete I got yelled at for making 110,000 concrete and using all the stone up (I'm the one going out and hooking up resources, I get to use some right?). I discovered the coloured concrete options on the 5dim page to a chorus of groans. Next time they're busy doing something it's time to colour code the factory. uXs posted:How do you deal with aliens in the very beginning? I only have a pistol and a group of aliens just killed me, even when I was actually paying attention and shooting at them. If you have that many aliens that close to you, keep the pollution down until you have turrets or they will indeed overrun you. You can clear out bases with turrets and normal ammo but you'll need to be careful. AP once you get military 2 makes clearing the hostiles a whole lot easier. zedprime posted:e. For reference, floating 2300 gas that for the sake of argument came from cracking medium is enough material for 1/3 of a rocket. You're right but that's my RSO save where oil is not easy to get and the supply tends to have large spikes when the tanker drops off in the depot. I don't like running the gas down too far in case the factory runs dry when I have to go find more oil to hook up. Mod guys, how hard would it be to create something like a directional radio (name only, you wouldn't actually need to point it anywhere)? I'm thinking paired objects that you set to one of a few dozen channels, one sits in the base and the other in an outpost. Set the pair to the same channel and the one in the outpost sends it's red + green network info to the one in the base. Electric cost shouldn't be high, radio carries well - a few kw per 500 chunks or something? But they'd probably attract attacks like the radar does (they hear the beeping in their heads). I know you can run wires out via poles but that poo poo gets old real fast with far off outposts. If we can build rockets, why not packet radios.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:59
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Ratzap posted:You're right but that's my RSO save where oil is not easy to get and the supply tends to have large spikes when the tanker drops off in the depot. I don't like running the gas down too far in case the factory runs dry when I have to go find more oil to hook up.
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Apr 5, 2016 17:10
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Ratzap posted:That's pretty much our current MP game apart from some config differences. SCT is a hell of a monster to feed though it's the actual real time required that gets irritating to me. Those basic components and things like transistors that get used 5 at a time are a bitch to supply. It's easier to build special factories for each user than try to make one big super producer. Drone and Dred are trying to bus our game but the thing is over a screen wide now, there's too much stuff in bobs to have a full bus of everything. How many days played to get the research all done or did you skip the robot follower X crud. i'm nowhere near finishing the research tree. Just finished getting bobscience packs going, and next I want to start my armor modules production going. But I need to lay out a new coal mine (just put the rail down to the deposit), make a rail line for zinc, find out where the gently caress tungsten is... :factorio:
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Apr 5, 2016 17:32
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uXs posted:It was like 40 minutes in, I had a bunch of mines to extract coal, iron, and copper and not much else. No electricity yet, everything was coal-powered. Maybe that was the problem. If you're mining coal and smelting iron and copper, you can get electricity up. You need copper for the water pump and iron for the steam engine and boilers, so maybe 2 coal mines feeding each other, 2-3 iron mines, 1 copper mine, all fed by hand. A typical progression for me is: - 1 pump, 3 boilers (the minimum for reaching 100 deg. C water) and 1 steam engine. You can feed this by hand. - Add another steam engine. By now you should've set up electric miners for coal and maybe iron, so divert coal to feeding the boilers. (If you move fast enough, they'll still have coal from when you set them up.) - Bump it up to 1 pump : 7 boilers : 5 steam engines. Will support a small factory and several miners. - Then double it to the optimal 1 pump : 14 boilers : 10 steam engines. From here you just add more rows of 1 : 14 : 10, giving you 5 MW of power per row. - Set up a second, smaller system, say 1 pump : 7 boilers : 5 steam engines, separate from your main network. Isolate your coal mines so they only draw power from here. This protects you from brownouts, if you can afford the coal to keep it all fed. I usually hit 40 steam engines (4 rows of 1 : 14 : 10) by the time I'm setting up oil refining and blue science.
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Apr 5, 2016 17:59
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zedprime posted:My tendency there would be to have a fat crude oil storage, because it can be anything it wants to be when it grows up and it can give you a one spot indicator of how well your crude supply is doing instead of the tail trying to wag the dog by tracking derivative products like gas. Account for how it needs to float based between your rail network and your average consumption and you can hook it up to warning lights and to have a foolproof crude defcon meter to yell at you to go find new oil. I have storage for 20,000 crude just now and having put on a new field it's nice and full. I'll rig something up to tell me when it drops below 50% which should be enough advance notice that the new field has run down and go find another. I went back and checked, Jabor was right. It only needs two combinators to watch the tanks, the pump has all the addition/comparison logic inside it too and it doesn't matter which wire colour. I have to convince myself that these things are all counters, no Boolean behaviour is to be expected. I played some more to get a timer circuit going just to get my head round how Factorio handles these things. It's a game of counters, nothing more. Even setting something to 1 doesn't make that count 1, it just adds 1 to the current value. To reset something you have to stop outputting it. I used to program CNC stepladder controllers amongst other things in the early 90s so I should be able to grok this with a little study. Zetsubou-san posted:i'm nowhere near finishing the research tree. Just finished getting bobscience packs going, and next I want to start my armor modules production going. But I need to lay out a new coal mine (just put the rail down to the deposit), make a rail line for zinc, find out where the gently caress tungsten is... Ah, I've been letting my game just sit there for hours to get the science to advance. Rocket silo took hours even with the labs working constantly, too much for my taste. Harder science is good, the stock goes way too fast and you can just throw labs at it but I think he's gone a bit overboard with SCT. I don't like having to play just so the science timer goes up. Driving around looking for deposits would be ok if it's weren't for the bloody rocks/trees everywhere.
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Apr 5, 2016 18:55
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uXs posted:How do you deal with aliens in the very beginning? I only have a pistol and a group of aliens just killed me, even when I was actually paying attention and shooting at them. If you're a beginner (and not playing on peaceful), it's not a bad idea to scum maps not only for decent starting resources, but until you don't start out in the middle of a desert. Pollution spread in a desert is the worst. (I'm assuming you were in a desert.) Slime posted:Get electricity up and running ASAP, burner miners and inserters put out wicked amounts of pollution compared to work done. Burner miners are bad, but not as bad as I think most people assume. Under steam power, electric miners actually produce a tad more (9 + 90/65 = 10.38) on a time basis. They just mine so much faster (almost twice as fast) that as Slime says, burners are worse compared to work done (35.7 pollution vs 17.1 for one non-stone resource unit). Inserters of all kinds don't pollute, except indirectly if you consider the pollution cost of fuel/electricity. Then, electric inserters are better unless they are operating very slowly (electrics have an idle drain, burners consume no energy when not working; the breakpoint if I remember correctly is roughly one insert per ~7 minute Factorio day). As always, solar changes the equation too.
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Apr 5, 2016 18:56
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Ratzap posted:I have storage for 20,000 crude just now and having put on a new field it's nice and full. I'll rig something up to tell me when it drops below 50% which should be enough advance notice that the new field has run down and go find another. Not being a computer scientist, creating logic gates out of combinators seems like crazy town. If you want to cheat, smart chests of tokens make a decent memory set up, as you can use them as a bit or an accumulator if you can live with it taking time to flip the bit or increment/decrement the accumulator.
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Apr 5, 2016 19:17
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zedprime posted:I am not a computer scientist but even though the wires act as data channels everything is still Turing complete because you can apparently make any logic gate you want with the combinators, and go from there creating bits and memory to do practical boolean operations. Sure, you can make any logic gate as long as you have NOT and one of AND or OR. Or, actually, you can make any gate as long as you have NOR or NAND. NOR outputs 1 when both inputs are 0, which is equivalent to a Decider combinator set to "Input < 1." (Deciders automatically add the input values.) NAND outputs 1 when both inputs are 0 or only one of them is 1. I'm thinking a Decider combinator set to "Input < 2" should work. OR (Input > 0) and NOT (Input = 0) can be achieved using a Decider combinators, too, but AND is possible with an Arithmetic combinator set to "A * B". Or use 2 Decision combinators to chain a NAND and a NOT. Or maybe a Decision combinator with "Input > 1"? The last common op is XOR, which is just "Input = 1." If you want to do it entirely in terms of NAND and NOR, you totally can, but it's way less compact. Anyway, once you have that, you can do stuff like make latches (memory cells) and so on. I haven't actually touched combinators at all, so I could be wrong on what comparisons you can do.
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Apr 5, 2016 19:40
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Zetsubou-san posted::factorio: This should be a gif of a yellow arm moving a fish from one wooden crate to the other.
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Apr 5, 2016 19:55
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LordSaturn posted:This should be a gif of a yellow arm moving a fish from one wooden crate to the other. http://i.imgur.com/RNn9yaZ.gifv
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Apr 5, 2016 20:00
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I have been playing the poo poo out of this for a week now. I finally made the rocket and shot a satellite into space. I didn't get the final victory screen though. Do I have to shoot multiple satellites?
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Apr 5, 2016 21:11
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Solumin posted:Sure, you can make any logic gate as long as you have NOT and one of AND or OR. Or, actually, you can make any gate as long as you have NOR or NAND. That's all pretty much laid out in this Friday facts post. Factorio may be Turing complete but it currently lacks ways to actually affect the factory. We can collect information, process it and display it but apart from small pumps and smart inserters, there are no other ways to affect production. In 0.13 we get switches and trains with CN logic so that adds some more controls. I'm hoping they keep going and add belts that can be switched on or off, smart splitter and so on. I'm also hot on the idea of automated warfare, going and killing nests myself is so drat barbaric.
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Apr 5, 2016 21:24
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The fish-go-round! Here it is without arrows http://i.imgur.com/Ztb9zBM.gifv
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Apr 5, 2016 21:27
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0.12.30 (Bugfix Release) is out!  Factorio Forums posted:Changes The mod loading thing is interesting, but I hope it doesn't slow down loading too much.
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Apr 5, 2016 22:24
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Ratzap posted:That's all pretty much laid out in this Friday facts post. Factorio may be Turing complete but it currently lacks ways to actually affect the factory. We can collect information, process it and display it but apart from small pumps and smart inserters, there are no other ways to affect production. In 0.13 we get switches and trains with CN logic so that adds some more controls. I'm hoping they keep going and add belts that can be switched on or off, smart splitter and so on. I'm also hot on the idea of automated warfare, going and killing nests myself is so drat barbaric. Belts and splitters on the network would be a neat shortcut, but smart inserters can do their job for them if you have the space for an equivalent speed inserter construction. Trains, inserters, electricity, and pumps seem like the major levers you'd ever want to use and it seems like we are getting those missing two soon enough. Recipe select is a gut request, but then assemblers and space are usually cheap enough that you don't need to do double duty on a single set of assemblers. I think the more important aspect is that there's no reason to ever use anything but a dumb set up. Oil is useful to have a smart set up, but can be broken on the anvil of ratios like anything else. At a glance inventory views are only of interest if you don't have ever increasing inputs. Small volume specialty items likes cars, tanks, power armor, and modular armor components are no big deal if you make a few too many or stop the process with partial requirements in the assemblers. And everything else falls under as much volume all the time, final products constrained by dumb chest limitations if its not a constant draw sort of thing.
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Apr 5, 2016 22:25
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Is there a mod that lets you do something with wood? After cutting a path through a few forests with my construction bots I have thousands upon thousands of pieces of it. I'd love to have some kind of recipe that lets you, I dunno, turn lots of wood into fewer units of something more energy dense, so that it's worth dumping into my boilers.
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Apr 5, 2016 22:43
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I made a mod that replaces the iron sticks requirement for railways with wood. I wanted a use for wood that wouldn't require me to be actively getting more, and you acquire wood and use rail in the same situations. I also replaced the iron stick requirements for everything else with other things, and removed iron sticks. I don't really like iron sticks. I haven't published it, but I'll share if you want it.
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Apr 5, 2016 22:45
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Slime posted:Is there a mod that lets you do something with wood? After cutting a path through a few forests with my construction bots I have thousands upon thousands of pieces of it. I'd love to have some kind of recipe that lets you, I dunno, turn lots of wood into fewer units of something more energy dense, so that it's worth dumping into my boilers. A unit of wood is 4MJ, coal is 8MJ. I dunno about you, but that feels to me like enough to be worth dumping into boilers.
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Apr 5, 2016 22:48
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If it gets to the point where you have 3000 bits of wood just make it a loop and have an inserter pull wood from a chest to put onto the belt, you'll not have to think about it for a while either.
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Apr 5, 2016 22:52
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Moddington posted:A unit of wood is 4MJ, coal is 8MJ. I dunno about you, but that feels to me like enough to be worth dumping into boilers. You're really underestimating how inefficient and electricity hungry my base is. Also, is there a mod or something that adds a liquid container for trains? I've found a nice big oilfield, but it's both miles away from my base and on the opposite side to where I've got all my oil refining set up. If I could just set up a train that could deliver liquid crude directly rather than having to take away filled barrels and deliver back empties that would be great.
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Apr 5, 2016 22:59
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Rail Tanker: https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?t=6847 Easily one of the most popular mods for Factorio. I wouldn't be surprised if they add it to the base game at some point. (Unless they've specifically spoken out against that?)
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Apr 5, 2016 23:02
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I'm surprised they don't already have a rail tanker. Right now it's either mile-long pipeline or boatloads of crude oil barrels shipped by train, right?
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Apr 5, 2016 23:04
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I believe they specifically want to add tanker cars but had to delay it beyond 0.13.
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Apr 5, 2016 23:05
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Lately I've been trying to train oil in by barrel, and I have to say it is a LOT faster and easier than I thought it might be. A typical Big Oilfield produces 70 barrels per train round trip, which (compared to 1500 ore) loads and unloads instantaneously so you can have the train stop for 5 or even 0 seconds. Plus it plays nice with your logistics bots.
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Apr 5, 2016 23:35
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