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BrianWilly posted:Or they had literally any Batman vs Superman fight from literally any source material, including Frank Miller's, in mind. That is a stupid comparison because usually, unless you can think of one I can't, Batman either has to have A LOT of circumstances in his favor for it to be even close to a fair fight- say nuking Superman, then using kryptonite gauntlets to attack him with- or Batman is just utterly outclassed and barely manages to survive until he doesn't. BvS's fight was pretty much spot on for how these two work.
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Apr 25, 2016 22:36
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Cavelcade posted:I think I should clarify again that I do think Cap 2 overall works. I think it would just work a lot better without the hydra stuff, and I think it adds nothing and only takes away from the movie. It adds a scene where they interact with a digitized Nazi scientist who has preserved his brain on 1970's-era magnetic tape reels I wouldn't call that nothing e: though in fairness you could have kept Zola in and just had him have legitimately been working to advance S.H.I.E.L.D.'s objectives rather than rebooting Hydra LGD fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Apr 25, 2016 |
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Apr 25, 2016 22:44
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Affleck and Cavill get it on in Zack Snyder’s bromantic comic-book movie. For those curious, Armond loved BvS, by the way. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/433246/batman-v-superman-culture-war-gets-mythic
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Apr 25, 2016 22:52
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BrianWilly posted:Or they had literally any Batman vs Superman fight from literally any source material, including Frank Miller's, in mind. That one goes down "random poo poo that does nothing to Superman, Superman beats the poo poo out of Batman, kryptonite"? Batman's clever ploy in that fight is to use the whole thing to fake his own death.
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Apr 25, 2016 23:03
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Burkion posted:That is a stupid comparison because usually, unless you can think of one I can't, Batman either has to have A LOT of circumstances in his favor for it to be even close to a fair fight- say nuking Superman, then using kryptonite gauntlets to attack him with- or Batman is just utterly outclassed and barely manages to survive until he doesn't. When I envision *~^My Batman VS Superman Fight^~*, I envision the scene from Jeph Loeb's Hush: Superman barreling forward as an unstoppable brute force of nature (kind of like in MoS), while Batman pulls out one ingenious stopgap after another, barely staying one half-step ahead, stretching his mind and physicality to the limit, employing gadgets and environments and even hidden allies and psychological warfare, fully aware that one single mistake spells total disaster. The BvS fight was a snorefest. They frontloaded Batman's "ingenuity" -- sonic weapons and...bullets... -- and then spent the rest of the scene with an embarrassing, sluggish brawl that is just barely a step above TV-quality fisticuffs. It all takes place in one environment, probably because it would've taken the both of them too long to waddle anywhere else. The height and breadths of Batman's psychological tactics amount to "macho posturing." Superman comes across just as addled and boorish, seeming to forget about any number of methods he could have used to end the fight in a split second (freeze breath, just off the top of my head). They just really wanna punch each other a lot, which is probably some sort of genius artistic commentary on the state of their characters at this point or something...but, unfortunately, makes for a dishwater-dull setpiece. I guess mega director Zack Snyder Sucker Punchedtm me again by leading me to expect a frenetic visual feast -- again, based on his own standards -- but then unexpectedly banking a hard left into the cinematic gutter! Actually, yeah, I take back what I said earlier; people probably did have the Hulkbuster fight in mind, which was better executed sequence on every front despite taking up a fraction of the run-time. e: I say again, the very concept art for the sequence promised a much more interesting, dynamic fight than the one we ended up getting. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Apr 25, 2016 |
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Apr 25, 2016 23:18
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:For those curious, Armond loved BvS, by the way. dude loves a good genre film bromance: Armond White posted:The antagonism between these specimen (Affleck follows Cavill’s already muscled-up example) is based on both men’s confused urge to do good. Each orphan’s personal torment and heroic ambition amounts to a passion. Grindr might match them, yet they’re initially mismatched which means that when they finally meet—and fight—it’s equivalent to a hate gently caress. he sang similar high praise of The Man from U.N.C.L.E.
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Apr 25, 2016 23:19
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BrianWilly posted:The height and breadths of Batman's psychological tactics amount to "macho posturing." Now hang on. Leading with a bunch of annoying and ultimately useless mechanical traps so that Superman wouldn't take the actually-dangerous grenade seriously was pretty good.
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Apr 25, 2016 23:23
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Ferrinus posted:Now hang on. Leading with a bunch of annoying and ultimately useless mechanical traps so that Superman wouldn't take the actually-dangerous grenade seriously was pretty good. He did not use that idea in my fanfic therefore it is bad. e: typo MacheteZombie fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Apr 26, 2016 |
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Apr 25, 2016 23:27
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Ferrinus posted:Now hang on. Leading with a bunch of annoying and ultimately useless mechanical traps so that Superman wouldn't take the actually-dangerous grenade seriously was pretty good.
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Apr 25, 2016 23:37
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BrianWilly posted:Now how much more interesting would it have been if there had been more of those kinds of traps and gadgets sprinkled throughout the building they were fighting in, so that they could actually harm or incapacitate Superman once he was weakened, and so that the entire rest of the sequence wasn't quite as monotonous? I think Batman actually set things up such that he'd have the pleasure of personally beating Superman into submission, toe-to-toe. Like, he clearly could've gone hellfire missile -> gas grenade -> actually lethal hellfire missile, but didn't.
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Apr 25, 2016 23:42
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BrianWilly posted:Now how much more interesting would it have been if there had been more of those kinds of traps and gadgets sprinkled throughout the building they were fighting in, so that they could actually harm or incapacitate Superman once he was weakened, and so that the entire rest of the sequence wasn't quite as monotonous? I don't get it, didn't the stupid director even read the fanfic I sent him?!?
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Apr 26, 2016 00:02
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Batman put that spear right where he wanted it. His whole plan was one ingenious fake-out after another, including the part where he pretends to be scared by Superman's returning invulnerability. BrianWilly's response: let's break up the "monotony" of this sequence with more worthless traps.
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Apr 26, 2016 00:14
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The Snyder fanboyism has gotten to the point where any suggestions for improvement are being brushed off as "fanfic." Which, I suppose, is kind of fitting insofar that a good cinematic Batman vs Superman fight does, indeed, still only exist within the realm of fantasy and not reality.Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Batman put that spear right where he wanted it. His whole plan was one ingenious fake-out after another, including the part where he pretends to be scared by Superman's returning invulnerability. "LOl no that's worthless" There's nothing wrong with the concept of the sequence or Batman's characterized goals as established by the themes of the movie. I'm talking about the actual presentation and depiction, which even the most biased supporters of the film have conceded as iffy and erratic. The Batman versus Superman fight in the Batman v Superman film was boring and subpar. No amount of thematic or narrative support for it being the way it is changes the actual visual display and emotional experience of it being boring and subpar. This is in stark contrast not only to the capstone moments of the preceding Man of Steel film, which were visual and sensory feasts, but also to other sequences in this very movie which come across much better. I didn't feel like Batman was fighting the Superman from MoS and, heck, I didn't even feel like Superman was fighting the Batman from BvS.
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Apr 26, 2016 01:16
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The fight would be worsened, not improved, if it was traps and gadgets the whole way through rather than traps and gadgets devolving into a weighty, punishing brawl. Batman can't actually defeat Superman with cleverness or whatever - if the two were fighting for real from the very beginning, he'd have just died regardless of how many ingenious stopgaps he might've conjured. What he can do is capitalize on Superman's well-meaning-ness in order to drag Superman down to his level.
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Apr 26, 2016 01:27
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Batman put that spear right where he wanted it. His whole plan was one ingenious fake-out after another, including the part where he pretends to be scared by Superman's returning invulnerability. https://zippy.gfycat.com/LightScratchyDuckbillplatypus.webm BrianWilly posted:The Snyder fanboyism has gotten to the point where any suggestions for improvement are being brushed off as "fanfic." Which, I suppose, is kind of fitting insofar that a good cinematic Batman vs Superman fight does, indeed, still only exist within the realm of fantasy and not reality. I thought the fight was fine. Part of what I like is how quick it is. This thread is also only a few pages removed from the "Tell that to Zod's neck!" suggestions for how to improve the movie, sorry for ribbing you about doing something similar.
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Apr 26, 2016 01:28
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BrianWilly posted:The Snyder fanboyism has gotten to the point where any suggestions for improvement are being brushed off as "fanfic." Which, I suppose, is kind of fitting insofar that a good cinematic Batman vs Superman fight does, indeed, still only exist within the realm of fantasy and not reality. I'm surprised they have internet service that far out on the edge. e- fanboyism: many posts from various people detailing their broad and deep appreciation for the directorial decisions displayed in this and other movies. Not fanboyism: misunderstanding the source material this movie is based on and then demanding it hew closer to this warped view via more action sequences with no artistic or storytelling value. McSpanky fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Apr 26, 2016 |
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Apr 26, 2016 01:56
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also i know this is inconsistent across supermans but this version of superman doesn't have freeze breath so that's why he didn't use it, brianwilly. i actually don't remember the last version of 'canon' superman who did have it. the 90s animated series didn't, i'm pretty sure the JLU version doesn't, the new 52 doesn't...
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Apr 26, 2016 02:30
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New 52 Superman definitely has Freeze Breath. He uses it on Ghost Soldier and manages to cause all of this:
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Apr 26, 2016 02:52
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McSpanky posted:I'm surprised they have internet service that far out on the edge. What if I am completely unfamiliar with the source material and think the fight sucked?
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Apr 26, 2016 03:04
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AFoolAndHisMoney posted:New 52 Superman definitely has Freeze Breath. He uses it on Ghost Soldier and manages to cause all of this: Ok, fair enough, I've only read the Morrison run where it's a youngish Superman who runs fast, jumps high and sometimes has laser beams, much like Snyder's version. For some reason a lot of writers seem perfectly happy with laser vision but either ignore or balk at freeze breath. I guess it's because it feels kinda like a Silver Age "Super-X" ability, like "Super-Breathing", whereas eye beams are both cooler and not just "regular human thing made absurd"?
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Apr 26, 2016 03:31
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Superman is like a giant battery of solar energy, so it's pretty natural to make the leap to him letting out explosive bursts of focused heat. Blowing cold air just starts to make him seem more like a wizard or something.
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Apr 26, 2016 03:43
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Isn't there a science explanation for his freeze breath that has to do with expanding gases?
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Apr 26, 2016 03:53
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Apr 26, 2016 03:58
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ungulateman posted:Ok, fair enough, I've only read the Morrison run where it's a youngish Superman who runs fast, jumps high and sometimes has laser beams, much like Snyder's version. It does tend to get a little out of hand.
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Apr 26, 2016 04:03
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It's funny how the criticism in this thread is rarely pointed at the actual faults of the movie, the pacing and scene omissions, and are instead primarily whining from nerds who aren't smart enough to understand blatant metaphorical story telling and dumb narcissists writing horrid fanfic ideas to "fix" things that are obviously broken as they don't fit the poster's idea of what's "right". Like for real this movie has real flaws, but almost none of the animosity directed at it is due to its actual weaknesses. I'm also not complaining, this thread is an entertaining read.
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Apr 26, 2016 05:32
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Martman posted:Superman is like a giant battery of solar energy, so it's pretty natural to make the leap to him letting out explosive bursts of focused heat. Doomsday should've preceded particularly powerful heat vision blasts with massive, hissing inhalations that drained the heat and electricity out of everything in front of him.
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Apr 26, 2016 05:42
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Wheeee posted:It's funny how the criticism in this thread is rarely pointed at the actual faults of the movie, the pacing and scene omissions, and are instead primarily whining from nerds who aren't smart enough to understand blatant metaphorical story telling and dumb narcissists writing horrid fanfic ideas to "fix" things that are obviously broken as they don't fit the poster's idea of what's "right". People have brought that up before. BvS is the most poorly constructed comic book movie. It's a mess and, for my money, the worst in overall quality.
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Apr 26, 2016 06:27
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I'm not one for puns. Yeah well you suck. Hindu the SUCK God.
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Apr 26, 2016 06:37
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PUN-DUDE THE BEAST GOD
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Apr 26, 2016 06:43
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I liked how batman's armour came apart so easily whenever supes landed a blow
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Apr 26, 2016 06:56
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Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:People have brought that up before. BvS is the most poorly constructed comic book movie. It's a mess and, for my money, the worst in overall quality. Let's not be hasty. Daredevil exists. And yet worse comic book movies. It's all been downhill since Blade anyhow 
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Apr 26, 2016 07:26
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Hodgepodge posted:Let's not be hasty. Daredevil exists. And yet worse comic book movies. Blade appeals to 15 year old boys
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Apr 26, 2016 07:35
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Y Kant Ozma Iceskate Uphill
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Apr 26, 2016 08:31
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LGD posted:It adds a scene where they interact with a digitized Nazi scientist who has preserved his brain on 1970's-era magnetic tape reels Yes, that is true. That bit was just great. BvS has pacing issues but it's still better than a lot of comic book movies and it's more interesting than most. I really liked seeing batman getting beaten around the place.
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Apr 26, 2016 08:42
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I just watched man of steel and it was a cool movie but everything surrounding the action sequences felt kind of ham fisted, like they realized they couldn't have just crazy fights and had to have some other stuff happen in it. It was some really cool crazy fights though. The transition into the zod fight was not very smooth, though. This movie was made by the same guy as mos, right? It's a "sequel"?
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Apr 26, 2016 09:28
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In much the same way there were no civilian casualties in BvS because no one is working or driving home after 5:30 pm in major cities, Snyder made sure there would be no audience casualties in his theaters by making the movie real bad.
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Apr 26, 2016 13:04
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I'm glad that we can laugh at the Aurora shootings here.
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Apr 26, 2016 13:13
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I'm glad that we can laugh at the Aurora shootings here. This. Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:People have brought that up before. BvS is the most poorly constructed comic book movie. It's a mess and, for my money, the worst in overall quality. It's easily among the top ten of superhero movies with Batman Returns, Spiderman 2, X2 and The Hulk.
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Apr 26, 2016 14:12
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:This. I watched X-Men 2 the other day and it's amazing and just nonchalantly dark as gently caress. It's a tragedy how the series fell off a cliff after that.
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Apr 26, 2016 14:20
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Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:People have brought that up before. BvS is the most poorly constructed comic book movie. It's a mess and, for my money, the worst in overall quality. Lol not even remotely close. OneThousandMonkeys posted:I watched X-Men 2 the other day and it's amazing and just nonchalantly dark as gently caress. It's a tragedy how the series fell off a cliff after that. First Class is good and Days of Future Past is legit fantastic and one of the best comic book movies ever
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