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For security cam footage there sure are a lot of close-ups and spliced shots and different camera angles involved.
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May 9, 2016 06:37
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drat, the Russo bros do character moments and action well. Zemo's plan felt kind of absurd and impossible, but I can't really let it bother me. His story was built up really nicely in the background. I spent half the movie trying to remember where I knew the actor from, when Inglourious Basterds finally clicked. I did find the big airport fight scene to quickly become a little tiring, I worry that Infinity Gauntlet is going to make that worse. I feel these just don't work so well on screen. Loved also that the movie managed to surprise me. Near the end I was like "huh, I guess they cut out the Cap/Bucky/Tony fight", then there's this palpable tension in the audience during the security footage, and then a scene I'm not sure how it'll end (having heard rumors of both Chris Evans and Robert Downey Jr wanting to quit these roles). It felt a liiittle too neatly resolved in the end though, with Cap and Tony already making up again somewhat, and Rhodey getting cyberlegs. Still glad they didn't kill him off just for drama, though. Lastly, I wish I'd watched Winter Soldier again just before this one, it seems to flow from that one much more than I expected.
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May 9, 2016 06:49
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SnatchRabbit posted:The idea of Peter Parker as a YouTube celebrity sounds incredible.
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May 9, 2016 07:54
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Jerusalem posted:When he starts bellowing laughter after becoming Giant Man I lost it. I loved how.... well.... comic-booky that whole fight scene was, with everybody mostly pulling their punches at first and even showing off a little until poo poo started to get serious. It contrasted so nicely with the final fight which had actual real honest-to-God emotional resonance to it. I don't know how the world will react if the first time Ant-Man, Starlord, and Spider-Man isn't just the most amazing thing the world has witnessed. It REALLY feels like they have to wrangle Paul Rudd in or else he would just over shadow every scene some how. The scene spoilered above was one of the best things I have ever seen on film. Not to mention how glorious EVERYONE'S reaction. Not just Rudd's. I have never really been a Paul Rudd fan. Not that I dislike him. Maybe he feels like he steals scene because his brand of humor is out of place? I can't put a finger on it. When they do let him loose it is pretty god drat glorious, though.
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May 9, 2016 08:19
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I'd say Rudd works in these movies (his own and his bit here) because he plays his characters so... earnestly. He's cheerfully amazed that he's talking on equal footing with Captain Friggin America just like we'd be, we're aghastedly impressed by becoming Giant Man like we'd be, etc. Someone said it upthread best: the reactions to what spoiled bit by everyone is best described as "Very professionally freaking out". Crosspost from the macros thread: (I loved how mildy amused/confused Vision was about a pinch. Like, "how do these humans do anything right with such generalized amounts?" MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 08:55 on May 9, 2016 |
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May 9, 2016 08:52
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Halloween Jack posted:What agency gave them a contract? Apparently Cap operates with the same sanction as Caro. You realise that Cap's stance, outside of wanting to protect his friend, was just to retire when the Accords came in? There isn't really an anti-Accords side in this. Radio! posted:What confuses me a bit about Tony not knowing about his parents' murder is that the press already knew the Winter Soldier was Bucky Barnes. So presumably that info was included in what Black Widow dumped on the internet at the end of WS. Wouldn't his mission reports have also probably been in that info? Even if Tony didn't go through all the files himself, I'm sure in the space of 2 years either FRIDAY or some random person would find it. It's tenuous but you can probably suggest after Ultron blew up in Stark's face, he decided to keep out of the HYDRA archives to control himself from similar temptations. It's also possible that all Zemo had was the date of the operation, and he put it together with the fact that Stark's parents died on the same day. Also maybe the security camera was set up by HYDRA, so the whole thing was really a test of loyalty for Bucky, killing someone he knows.
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May 9, 2016 10:47
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This movie was a struggle for me. It felt like it was very long, yet also significantly cut down. Captain America and Iron Man come across as violent jackasses who use superheroing to escape their personal issues. The main villain does pitifully little in terms of actual villainy, it's just that everything falls apart over Bucky's existence. Like, is he right? Jesus, Bucky needs more character than having some "jokes" where people are annoyed by him. There's a lot of loving conflict in being a former brainwashed assassin whose only friend in the world is destroying his life for you. But Bucky gets one line in a jet and then just punches Iron Man a lot. So since Bucky is just a walking plot device, the movie degenerates into Cap and Iron Man's egos swallowing the plot until they destroy a bunch of poo poo for no reason. Prince Wakanda, despite renouncing his vengeance as senseless violence, does a 180 and decides to harbour senselessly violent Captain America in his own country. Bucky disappears into frozenity, probably to be thawed immediately in the next film. None of this stuff matters because supervillains are just springing into existence and superheroes are the only ones who can fight them. Governments and are wrong and evil, and civilians are utterly powerless. How do you guys think the Marvel Cinematic Universe going to end?
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May 9, 2016 11:04
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:How do you guys think the Marvel Cinematic Universe going to end? With Marvel making more money than Walmart, Google and Apple combined.
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May 9, 2016 11:06
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Away all Goats posted:With Marvel making more money than Walmart, Google and Apple combined. Disney are making a ridiculous amount of money via their film division at the moment. They've currently got Civil War, The Jungle Book and Zootopia in the cinemas making crazy crazy money and they've also got those Star Wars films.
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May 9, 2016 11:18
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:How do you guys think the Marvel Cinematic Universe going to end?
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May 9, 2016 11:19
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doverhog posted:How do you know that? And more importantly, how is anyone in the movie supposed to know that? I know this because I watched the movie, and it's very clear that at no point has Wanda ever just randomly red magicd the area around her into a scene of destruction. The people in the movie know this because there's no way Lagos is their first mission as a team post Ultron. It's the first where high level civilian casualties happened. Also, despite running around and doing whatever they want without oversight, there's no way that Tony isn't talking to reporters and Cap isn't talking to victim's families after their actions. It's an unfounded idea that after the Wakandans got blown up in Lagos everyone on the team refused to answer any questions and Tony told everyone else who knew anything not to defend the action. Captain America can walk around on the street and only occasionally be recognized. There's no way the way less famous and iconic Scarlet Witch can't do the same. Further, the people who are afraid of her aren't the average guy on the street. It's the powerful who know that she isn't an America Rah Rah person like any of the ex-soldiers on the team, a Capitalism Rah Rah person like Tony, or a literal robot created by Tony. The members of the Avengers that all the politicians and other such players have issues with are Thor, Banner, Black Widow, and Scarlet Witch. Because they are the least controllable/known quantities. War Machine, Falcon, Hawkeye, Captain America, Stark and his pet robot are "rational" actors in their mind because their loyalties are 100% known. MisterBibs posted:As the movie presented them I sided with the Accords (I saw it as less "This panel will control everything" and more "Let's work with the Avengers a bit more closely so we're all on the same page a bit more") but gawddamn did Wanda all tied up and sad really got to me. I don't want to make you more  , but she isn't sad in those scenes. She's drugged into a near catatonic state while in a straight jacket and wearing a color that monitors her vitals to make sure they're pumping enough drugs into her to keep her sedated.
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May 9, 2016 11:50
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Xenomrph posted:Probably the same way the Marvel Comics Universe ended. I wish it were possible to see Hickman's storyline on the big screen. That was the best.
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May 9, 2016 12:11
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hiddenriverninja posted:I didn't know there were so many people that want Cap and Bucky to kiss Slash fic is a thing, and good Lord almighty Cap has some compelling chemistry with Bucky. I kept joking with my friends before the movie that Civil War is really about the world's greatest and most troubled love triangle: Steve Rogers, Tony Stark, and Bucky Barnes.
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May 9, 2016 13:13
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I really felt that Scarjo, that guy who does steve and Bucky all turned in perfunctory performances, like they're mostly just bored during the filming. One of the few times I can remember Steve actually emoting is when he fights with Tony about the accords when he finds out about Wanda, but otherwise he's just...distant. Hawkeye's inclusion, I felt, was totally redundant, and only there to have an extra action figure during the airport fight. You could have left him out of the movie and it would have pretty much played out the same. RDJ does a fantastic job, as usual, however this was supposed to be a Cap movie, not an Avengers movie Featuring Cap. In hindsight, this might be a good thing, considering this Steve is as dull as dishwater, so at least there's someone who can provide some stage presence and charisma. Side note, when Tony says "So was I" in response to Caps "Bucky is my friend!", it sounded way more angry and bitter than it did in the trailers, where it sounded more sad and hurt. Also, the shaky cam was ridiculous, and made any action scene that employed it unbearable. Luckily they cut that poo poo out in the later fights.
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May 9, 2016 13:43
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So thinking about why certain moments resonated with veiwers, I think the movie is a bit more political than it's getting credit The big fight at the end works on a personal level because for all that there have been like what, 7 films staring this version of Iron Man, he still hasn't dealt with the death of his parents. Unlike Batman, he didn't get into the superhero game to cope with his loss; it grew out of his coping mechanism, which is obsession with technology. I don't think it's a coincidence that both Stark and Wayne are orphans without even the adoptive parents that Spider Man and Superman have. The heroic capitalist is a "self-made man," and the alienation, loneliness, and literal impossibility of this of this is often represented in fiction (especially comics) as orphanhood. Think Richie Rich, Ozymandius, and Scrooge (Mc Duck but also Dickens'). Technology is Tony's god, as it tends to be in comics in various ways. In Tony's case, it is a god he believes he can control and which he has sufficient mastery over to call upon to become superhuman, and from which he derives hope for the future. But he has taken all of the burden of this along with the power. In both Civil War and BvS, the villian provokes the respective characters with their frustrations with being, for all their wealth and power, unable to save either civilians casualties and their parents. Despite the casualties being Iron Man's fault to a far greater degree than his countetpart, the issue is far more about his parents for Tony (who can at least try to make amends for the casualties). Tony's god is one he believes he can control and even merge with to a degree. Batman struggles with himself with irrational guilt for not being able to save the Metropolis casualties, but Tony irrationally blames himself for the death of his parents and externalities the responsibility for the casualties in order to make the problem something he can control. So he can ultimately deal with his friend getting his dead adoptive brother back and the ideological dispute. But when suddenly he's faced with his parents' killer, even though he knows that Bucky is substantially innocent, all this comes up in a big mess. Why does the guy who killed his parents get forgiveness when he can't forgive himself? (Because accepting their death isn't something Bucky can do for him). Why won't Steve accept his attempts to make amends for his mistakes? (Because oversight from a system he dominates is substituting control over others for accepting his own responsibility). So he lashes out and Steve, who is America's ideals, turns away from him. Even if he doesn't give up on him entirely. Basically what is happening is that America is telling capitalism that it isn't God, and more power for itself isn't the solution. Taking responsibility in this case means stop trying to control everything and expecting its capacity for technological innovation to fix everything. This is all diluted by the huge cast and serial nature of the Marvel films. At the same time, a young Spider Man works because Tony is at least trying to deal with his mortality and responsibility for the future. That's why his literal child is now a young Dr. Manhattan dating a revolutionary instead of being a Darwinian apocolypse. Anyhow, Thanos is literally an avatar of death. That's his deal. So I guess that's where things are going.
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May 9, 2016 14:02
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PJOmega posted:For security cam footage there sure are a lot of close-ups and spliced shots and different camera angles involved. I saw the different camera angles as more a benefit for the audience--a flashback to the "real" events triggered by the security footage, just to make sure you know exactly what's happening. All the characters saw was grainy, low-res video from a single stationary security camera.
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May 9, 2016 14:07
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The only thing this movie did well was shots of people falling. There are like six "dude from Titanic hitting the propeller" moments in this movie.
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May 9, 2016 14:16
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Well Manicured Man posted:I saw the different camera angles as more a benefit for the audience--a flashback to the "real" events triggered by the security footage, just to make sure you know exactly what's happening. All the characters saw was grainy, low-res video from a single stationary security camera. The whole audience got extremely quiet for that part too. Even more than Rhodey going thud.
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May 9, 2016 14:19
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Fangz posted:You realise that Cap's stance, outside of wanting to protect his friend, was just to retire when the Accords came in? Hodgepodge posted:Anyhow, Thanos is literally an avatar of death. That's his deal. So I guess that's where things are going.
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May 9, 2016 14:31
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Richie Rich isn't an orphan.
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May 9, 2016 14:50
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Hodgepodge posted:Anyhow, Thanos is literally an avatar of death. That's his deal. So I guess that's where things are going. I always figured Thanos was more like Charlie Kelly and Death was the Waitress (if she even exists at all outside of his head since no one else can see her but him in some comics). Murdering half the universe is just his version of "The Nightman Cometh".
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May 9, 2016 14:51
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Halloween Jack posted:Someone on this forum summed Thanos up pretty well by describing him as "Darkseid on weed." Thanos was based on Darkseid, and they embody pretty similar themes. I'm not sure I'd call Thanos the stoner version, though. 
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May 9, 2016 15:00
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:How do you guys think the Marvel Cinematic Universe going to end? Nothing ends, Adrian. Nothing ever ends.
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May 9, 2016 15:13
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Bob Quixote posted:I always figured Thanos was more like Charlie Kelly and Death was the Waitress (if she even exists at all outside of his head since no one else can see her but him in some comics). Deadpool can see, and is, in fact, in a romantic relationship with, Death. This does not, in any way, disprove your thesis.
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May 9, 2016 15:13
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My Lovely Horse posted:A while ago I had this idea that the Spider-Man/Jameson relationship could be updated by having Jonah be one of the last print media holdouts and Spidey being on all the social media. Screw selling pictures to the Bugle, just make a Patreon. Strap a GoPro to your head. Livetweet from patrols and post selfies from the top of the Empire State Building with tourists. I hope something like that happens, although I guess if Tony is sponsoring him the idea of Parker being perpetually broke isn't gonna be as much of a pressing issue. I love JK Simmons, but I really want to see Michael Keaton in the MCU and this might be the best spot for him. Edit: Or John Goodman. RBA Starblade posted:The whole audience got extremely quiet for that part too. Even more than Rhodey going thud. As much as I liked that scene (and seriously I think everyone in the theater went "oof") it was done way better in Amazing Spider-Man 2 with Gwen's death, that head-on-concrete sound still haunts me.
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May 9, 2016 15:34
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I like that spiderman had fantasy spider autism. (Actually I do like that the spiderman logic made perfect sense and they just never bothered to say it directly: stark knew there was a guy making the world's strongest rope and he went looking for him right when he needed to tie up the world's strongest man) Owlofcreamcheese fucked around with this message at 16:01 on May 9, 2016 |
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May 9, 2016 15:57
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My curiosity was piqued when Clint mockingly called Tony a futurist. I immediately thought of Italian Futurism rather than futurism in the vague general sense. Ultron was the logical end-result of the techbro, TED Talk, Silicon Valley liberal communist viewpoint that Tony has fallen into: the world can be perfected if we remove that pesky human element completely. Just thinking out loud.
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May 9, 2016 16:06
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My Lovely Horse posted:A while ago I had this idea that the Spider-Man/Jameson relationship could be updated by having Jonah be one of the last print media holdouts and Spidey being on all the social media. Screw selling pictures to the Bugle, just make a Patreon. Strap a GoPro to your head. Livetweet from patrols and post selfies from the top of the Empire State Building with tourists. I hope something like that happens, although I guess if Tony is sponsoring him the idea of Parker being perpetually broke isn't gonna be as much of a pressing issue. There's been a bunch of articles about the Youtube Middle Class essentially working themselves to death. See GameSack. I'm sure there's a way for Peter's Stark grant to magically go up and smoke and suddenly have to kick in to May with Youtube Ad Rev. edit: now that I think of it, wasn't the Stark grant just a ruse for Tony to get Peter alone in his room? 
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May 9, 2016 16:10
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Halloween Jack posted:My curiosity was piqued when Clint mockingly called Tony a futurist. I immediately thought of Italian Futurism rather than futurism in the vague general sense. Well, the two are definitely related but technolibertarian doesn't roll off the tongue.
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May 9, 2016 16:10
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Halloween Jack posted:My curiosity was piqued when Clint mockingly called Tony a futurist. I immediately thought of Italian Futurism rather than futurism in the vague general sense.
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May 9, 2016 16:13
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Hodgepodge posted:So thinking about why certain moments resonated with veiwers, I think the movie is a bit more political than it's getting credit That's a rather interesting read, I can see a lot of that myself now that you point it out. Mazzagatti2Hotty fucked around with this message at 16:17 on May 9, 2016 |
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May 9, 2016 16:14
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Hodgepodge posted:So thinking about why certain moments resonated with veiwers, I think the movie is a bit more political than it's getting credit This is a rambling mess of words, but " a young Spider Man works because Tony is at least trying to deal with his mortality and responsibility for the future" is especially stupid since it shows his willingness to bring in a literal child soldier to win a battle because his ego can't stand to lose or be wrong.
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May 9, 2016 16:20
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Bottom Liner posted:This is a rambling mess of words, but " a young Spider Man works because Tony is at least trying to deal with his mortality and responsibility for the future" is especially stupid since it shows his willingness to bring in a literal child soldier to win a battle because his ego can't stand to lose or be wrong. But, to give it credit, it is written in such a way that clearly shows Tony has indoctrinated Spiderman in a number of ways, and at best is a liar by omission.
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May 9, 2016 16:22
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I also don't think Tony's obsession with technology is a way for him to cope with his parents' deaths so much as it was his way of relating to his father. By all accounts, Howard was a distant, absentee father, more concerned with invention than raising his son. Tony becoming a technological innovator is probably the only way he ever knew how to feel close to Howard, even post mortem, and is probably why he surrounds himself with automatons and seals himself away behind a suit of technological armour. The difference between Tony and Bruce is that I think Tony would have become Iron Man even if his parents hadn't died.
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May 9, 2016 16:35
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:But, to give it credit, it is written in such a way that clearly shows Tony has indoctrinated Spiderman in a number of ways, and at best is a liar by omission. Something I really appreciated about that scene is that when Spider-Man presents his motivations for being a superhero, they're way more in line with what Cap's been saying - if you have these abilities and you don't act, you're guilty by negligence, etc. Iron Man doesn't even try to convince him of his own point of view, he just frames the conflict and the opportunity around telling Spider-Man what he wants to hear. If the movie is apathetic about policy, Spider-Man is the ultimate representation of that: the briefing that Iron Man gave him about Cap's stance is essentially "he's wrong and he thinks he's right", and Spider-Man was somehow okay with that. What the gently caress!
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May 9, 2016 16:41
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To be fair to Tony, his instructions to Peter were to web people up but otherwise stay out of the fighting, which of course Parker ignores because he's young and hot-headed and wants to impress his new benefactor. Tony realizes how badly he screwed up when he sees Pete knocked loopy after the fight.
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May 9, 2016 16:41
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Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:To be fair to Tony, his instructions to Peter were to web people up but otherwise stay out of the fighting, which of course Parker ignores because he's young and hot-headed and wants to impress his new benefactor. Tony realizes how badly he screwed up when he sees Pete knocked loopy after the fight. Or was forced to ignore Tony's orders because a group of people aren't just going to ignore the guy hanging out shooting webs at people.
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May 9, 2016 16:44
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Jenny Angel posted:Something I really appreciated about that scene is that when Spider-Man presents his motivations for being a superhero, they're way more in line with what Cap's been saying - if you have these abilities and you don't act, you're guilty by negligence, etc. Iron Man doesn't even try to convince him of his own point of view, he just frames the conflict and the opportunity around telling Spider-Man what he wants to hear. If the movie is apathetic about policy, Spider-Man is the ultimate representation of that: the briefing that Iron Man gave him about Cap's stance is essentially "he's wrong and he thinks he's right", and Spider-Man was somehow okay with that. What the gently caress! That's exactly what I mean, at least in part, about why Spiderman is what's wrong with this movie. He's smart enough to know better but he's a kid. He doesn't know what he doesn't know. And to play that as cute with no comment on it is absolutely nuts.
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May 9, 2016 16:46
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I haven't seen this, but I hear Captain America is still alive. Isn't he supposed to die at some point?
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May 9, 2016 16:49
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Toilet Mouth posted:I haven't seen this, but I hear Captain America is still alive. Isn't he supposed to die at some point? Sure, aren't we all?
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May 9, 2016 16:51
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