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Sorry, I didn't mean to assume, but it's way funnier if they fired you.
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Aug 4, 2016 15:01
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anthonypants posted:gently caress this, if you left a job as jr sysadmin, and that's the job you want to do and are applying for, don't put a different title on there at all. I'd argue that it looks good to have both titles on there. It shows you got promoted, which is awesome and reflects really well on you. Just make the section about the lesser role super small and focus on the more impressive one.
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Aug 4, 2016 15:06
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SEKCobra posted:Sorry, I didn't mean to assume, but it's way funnier if they fired you. I'm a different guy than you quoted so the guy you are talking about might have been. I am in a similar situation and wanted to chime in. If my old employer would want to rehire me at the rate I'd like they'd be paying 4x as much as they were before I left. That'd be cool.
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Aug 4, 2016 15:07
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flosofl posted:It also depends on what you're hiring for. Our company pay averages higher than average for our area and we'd been looking more than six months for a senior level guy and finally made an offer last week. Up until then, just about everyone was either an entry level that was shotgunning resumes out, entry-to-intermediate that was lying on their resume (which becomes painfully obvious during the interview), or intermediate levels that were a bit more deficient on experience/knowledge than we were comfortable with and we felt it would take too long to get them up to speed. This. We have been short on mid-senior level engineers since I stared almost a year ago. Most candidates are really heavy in storage (really?) or were just script monkey admins are very big companies that fell apart when I asked open ended problem solving questions. And I agree that putting skills and experience on your resume that you don't have is an excellent way to be dismissed from an interview. A few months ago a guy had something like "Objective-C" on his skills list and I asked him if it was for Mac OS X or iOS and he said 'Oh, I just want to learn it.'. I replied 'Then you might not want to list it as 'proficient' if you haven't touched it. I'm dying to get another guy into help because I am burning out and can't take time off without being called in for some sort of issue or arbitrary deadline. However, it seems the pool for mid-senior systems engineers in Chicago is terrible, and I know we don't pay that well either, so I'm pretty much SOL for the time being.
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Aug 4, 2016 15:10
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Docjowles posted:I'd argue that it looks good to have both titles on there. It shows you got promoted, which is awesome and reflects really well on you. Just make the section about the lesser role super small and focus on the more impressive one. I am being laid off next Friday. I have been here for almost ten years, and I have had four different titles. I think I will split them up and expand upon the more glamorous recent ones while minimizing the earlier entry level stuff. The previous employer will be at the very bottom, showing my last thirteen years of employment history. 
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Aug 4, 2016 15:12
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alg posted:You're not paying well enough. MSP I worked at hired me on for my first IT job at a stupidly, ridiculously, insultingly low salary (IE barely livable sub $15 / hr). Since it was my first IT job though I worked the poo poo out of everything that came across my desk and gave the company one hell of a value. At the two year mark (making 7k in raises, still offensively cheap) I left for a real IT salary. Last I checked (been a year since I left) they're still cycling through new lovely employees. At one point they learned their lesson that their pay isn't where it needs to be and offered me my new salary to come back. Denied it because they were always going to cheap out on pay and hide behind some awful 'altruistic value' of the job that was supposed to make it worthwhile. So yes, if you can't retain good employees and are only getting lovely employees coming back for a second interview, you're not paying well enough.
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Aug 4, 2016 15:15
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LochNessMonster posted:I'm a different guy than you quoted so the guy you are talking about might have been. On a side note, it's really easy to win your unemployment appeal when your former employer doesn't even bother to show up, though slightly dickish when they're the ones that appealed in the first place.
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Aug 4, 2016 15:30
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kensei posted:I am being laid off next Friday. I have been here for almost ten years, and I have had four different titles. I think I will split them up and expand upon the more glamorous recent ones while minimizing the earlier entry level stuff. The previous employer will be at the very bottom, showing my last thirteen years of employment history. Your approach is the same as mine. My company's actually been acquired a few times too, so I'm treating each as a different job with a different company name. To me, that makes the most sense, because even having been here about 4 years now, anything that preceded it is practically irrelevant given all I've done here.
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Aug 4, 2016 15:38
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The Fool posted:Sanity check: I was just talking to a recruiter about a "Operating Systems Manager" job, the position is at a bank, oversees 4 people, and is responsible for managing software deployments and patching across some 30-odd branches. The recruiter says the starting salary is $56k. Depends on location and remember - this is just starting. I'm sure HR would have no problem taking on few more dollars for a solid candidate.
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Aug 4, 2016 15:50
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hihifellow posted:I was the guy quoted and I was fired, so everyone can laugh away. I forget was this your first IT job or just the first sysadmin job? Either way, it doesnt hurt to take a week or two for yourself decompress a bit and then start looking again. List your old job and when it comes up why you left just say something like "it wasnt a good fit" or that the commute got to long or something. Is there anyone there you worked with well that you could list as a personal reference?
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Aug 4, 2016 16:25
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hihifellow posted:I was the guy quoted and I was fired, so everyone can laugh away. Why would they appeal and don't bother to show up... Besides someone getting ill and sending no replacement.
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Aug 4, 2016 16:29
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I think I have a visio virus or someone is playing a prank on me. All of my lines are tilted by 1 pixel even if I turn glue and snap off and hold shift when placing it. It's driving me mad
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Aug 4, 2016 16:51
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ratbert90 posted:Where? Anchorage, Alaska Edit: a friend of mine makes the same amount of money doing desktop support in the same town. The Fool fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Aug 5, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 17:05
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high six posted:They kinda tossed me in the deep end. I was told to get a VMware Mirage system set up when I started, and it was slow going since it's not a particularly commonly used system from what I can tell and documentation is pretty sparse. Well, Mirage has a crapload of good documentation out there, but it's fairly complex. I was in charge of rolling it out where I work, and we absolutely paid VMWare to come in and do training and work the initial rollout. Throwing something as complex as Mirage, which has a fair amount of not-entirely-obvious pitfalls if you're rolling it out with no prior experience at a very junior admin is absolutely a case of poor decision making. Sounds like you got out of a lovely job. Getting fired sucks, but based just on what you said, that place was a shitshow.
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Aug 4, 2016 17:25
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Anyone have advice on how to get a new wiki rolling? Like, not from a tech standpoint, but to get people to start writing stuff. So far I made a front page with stuff like: [Network] covers all network related topics: [DNS], [VLANs], [F5s], [Firewalls], when to use them and how to submit requests. Do you think it'd be worthwhile to say "While we're getting started, don't worry about formatting, don't worry about being organized. Just try to put down information in a relevant article so that the information is there!" Or should I emphasize keeping things neat from the beginning? Just not sure how to put some oomfph into this.
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Aug 5, 2016 00:17
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Make sure people are tagging things with the appropriate heading levels to make generating contents easier, using lists where appropriate etc. but focus on making it pretty later. If your colleagues don't want to document anything though you will need to get management buy-in to nudge them.
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Aug 5, 2016 00:22
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Anyone have advice on how to get a new wiki rolling? Not sure how much time you can blow on this, but make sure you give people who should be creating the content attention. When they feel they are important by contributing (and see the adde value) people will eat that poo poo up. Create some sort of easy to read flyer/booklet/quick reference card which explains how to create entries. Make sure there are several examples and theres a basic template for people to use. Keep pulling attention to the wiki, organisation wide. Make weekly/bi-weekly/monthly "article of the week/month" publications to exhibit the fronteunners who help you create content. Or a contributer of the month. You could also make a news letter and make a list of new topics which were created. Make sure your wiki, and it's early adaptors keep getting exposure. Let people know that the wiki is THE place to get useful information. If you can set off a snowball effect your golden. Sounds like a lot of work, and it can be. But you can start small and see what works for you. E: or do a few 1-2 hour workshops, to explain how it works and maybe achieve some quick wins.
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Aug 5, 2016 00:39
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The Fool posted:Sanity check: I was just talking to a recruiter about a "Operating Systems Manager" job, the position is at a bank, oversees 4 people, and is responsible for managing software deployments and patching across some 30-odd branches. The recruiter says the starting salary is $56k. I did a little sleuthing and I suspect you are talking about First National Bank of Alaska, which has 3.1b in assets, so I am guessing there are roughly 500-750 employees, and if I were to guess that would mean roughly 800 PCs to support. Are you sure they didn't mean Operations manager? That would be a much more likely banking title. If it is really operating systems manager for this bank, I think you are probably going to be underworked and the pay may be right. If it is operations manager, this is way underpaid. An operations manager for a 3.1b bank should be looking at somewhere around $100k to start.
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Aug 5, 2016 02:04
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Derail! Just one more day at current position as Virtualization SME and Asst Team Lead. All attempts at knowledge transfer to other Virtualization SME so he can take over some of the duties (i.e. mailbox restores and SharePoint database restores) were halted because leadership wasn't sure the new contract would even have those responsibilities residing at our location. As near as I can tell that new contract is several months off, and I've averaged 1-2 mailbox restores and 1-2 SharePoint database restores a week. When informed that I was leaving the SharePoint team lead looked like I'd just kicked his puppy and said "poo poo" before turning around and shuffling back to his desk. Everyone else has expressed their happiness and congratulated me repeatedly. They also mouthed "get me out of here!" when no one else was looking. Since the next contract position any DoD contractor gets is generally through word-of-mouth, of course I will keep an eye out for any opportunities to throw at my soon-to-be-former co-workers. Gratitude tends to be reciprocated with job leads and personal recommendations, which are more precious than gold.
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Aug 5, 2016 02:06
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adorai posted:To put in my two cents, I oversee the 9 people at my bank that provide traditional IT related support. Systems and network admins as well as helpdesk. We have 68 branches. The number of poeple responsible for software deployments and patching is 2, and they spend just a few hours per week doing it. 4 people and a supervisor for 30 branches doing what you describe seems like way too many. If we had only 30 branches I could drop 4 direct reports and still maintain the entire infrastructure, including servers, storage, network, desktops, etc.. I'm just repeating what the recruiter told me. The bank is AlaskaUSA FCU. She made it sound like the team is responsible for all software deployments and updates, not just for computers, but for ATM's and other devices as well, if that affects your analysis. My big sticking point is the managing the team of 4. I'd expect the team members to make $50k. I'd think $70-$75k would be more reasonable for this position. For context, a friend of mine has a desktop support job in the same city and makes $58k. He works in oilfield support though, not banking.
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Aug 5, 2016 03:11
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The Fool posted:I'm just repeating what the recruiter told me. The bank is AlaskaUSA FCU. She made it sound like the team is responsible for all software deployments and updates, not just for computers, but for ATM's and other devices as well, if that affects your analysis. My big sticking point is the managing the team of 4. I'd expect the team members to make $50k. I'd think $70-$75k would be more reasonable for this position. For context, a friend of mine has a desktop support job in the same city and makes $58k. He works in oilfield support though, not banking.
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Aug 5, 2016 03:28
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Judge Schnoopy posted:MSP I worked at hired me on for my first IT job at a stupidly, ridiculously, insultingly low salary (IE barely livable sub $15 / hr). Since it was my first IT job though I worked the poo poo out of everything that came across my desk and gave the company one hell of a value. At the two year mark (making 7k in raises, still offensively cheap) I left for a real IT salary. Altruistic value? I'm working for a paycheck. The employer who pays me the most while maintaining or improving my quality of life gets me onboard. I've seen some shitshows mention in interviews that while the salary may be below market value, think of the experience you can gain!
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Aug 5, 2016 04:55
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TerryLennox posted:Altruistic value? I'm working for a paycheck. The employer who pays me the most while maintaining or improving my quality of life gets me onboard. I've seen some shitshows mention in interviews that while the salary may be below market value, think of the experience you can gain! Believe it or not, there are some people who enjoy working for nonprofits/charities for substandard wages because they believe in the cause.
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Aug 5, 2016 05:22
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a cop posted:Believe it or not, there are some people who enjoy working for nonprofits/charities for substandard wages because they believe in the cause.
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Aug 5, 2016 05:47
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adorai posted:It's not just that. There is value in loyalty. I acknowledge that not all employers value loyalty these days, there are some that do. They might not reward it with cold hard cash, but there could be other rewards. Personally, I could leave my job right now and make more money, but I am confident my long term earning prospects are better at my current employer. I wasn't thinking along those lines when I heard the term "Altruistic value" but this is cool to hear nonetheless. I'm similarly old school in terms of having this mindset, but both my parents also worked for companies for 20+ years and were very happy as a result so I'm biased.
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Aug 5, 2016 05:56
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I could definitely see staying at a company for altruistic reasons, but not until I'm making a lot more money. It would take a lot of convincing to get me to believe anything bigger than a small business is loyal to me. I got laid off from a job where both my bosses loved me at the end of a contract because the more senior boss got fired and the guy who came in just wanted to cut costs. I'm loyal to my family (a dog counts to turn a couple into a family).
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Aug 5, 2016 05:57
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a cop posted:Believe it or not, there are some people who enjoy working for nonprofits/charities for substandard wages because they believe in the cause. 
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Aug 5, 2016 06:28
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a cop posted:Believe it or not, there are some people who enjoy working for nonprofits/charities for substandard wages because they believe in the cause. Generally, those people are not goons.
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Aug 5, 2016 06:38
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I had a car loan through them once. Something about their online banking system was super goofy, but I forget what it was now.
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Aug 5, 2016 06:52
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TerryLennox posted:I've seen some shitshows mention in interviews that while the salary may be below market value, think of the experience you can gain! I've worked 6 months+ for free while I was still in school because the employer had me believe he would pay me later and I wanted the experience.  Took some goon advice for me to wise up and quit and ask for the money that was owed to me. I finally got it after months of pestering my previous employer. I'm now in a much better place. I am still gratefull for the advice you guys gave me back then.
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Aug 5, 2016 08:34
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flosofl posted:Most people think they understand wireless networking at an expert level. Most people are wrong.  adorai posted:It's not just that. There is value in loyalty. I acknowledge that not all employers value loyalty these days, there are some that do. They might not reward it with cold hard cash, but there could be other rewards. Also the problem with loyalty is that it rarely cuts both ways in the workplace. Companies expect you to be loyal, but most of them will axe you without a second thought if there's a profit to be made.
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Aug 5, 2016 10:44
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Collateral Damage posted:Companies expect you to be loyal, but most of them will axe you without a second thought if there's a profit to be made. This can't be said enough. I've only seen a handful of exceptions and those are all small or family businesses.
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Aug 5, 2016 11:37
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CLAM DOWN posted:Generally, those people are not goons.  I nearly spilled coffee over my keyboard thanks to this  Edit (for actual, relevant content): I spent a few years as an enlisted sonar operator in the Norwegian navy but didn't re-up due to the pay being pretty mediocre and personell policies (time off after sailing, travel compensation etc) being pretty sub-par. I probably have enough people on facebook that left due to the same reasons to man the weapons and engineering section of a frigate. The very same frigates that media over here are whining about being undermanned 
Wibla fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Aug 5, 2016 |
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Aug 5, 2016 13:52
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As my hero and yours once said. "I'm in this for the money." "The money comes later!" "My bills come every month, right on time."
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Aug 5, 2016 14:00
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LochNessMonster posted:This can't be said enough. I've only seen a handful of exceptions and those are all small or family businesses. This is why I love working in state government. Great job security, treated like a human being, amazing benefits and a pension. And I feel like I'm contributing to something, instead of raising profits for a bunch of lovely investors who want to outsource me.
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Aug 5, 2016 14:17
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lmfao this job is going downhill fast. Time to make it to the end of the year, collect my bonus paycheck, and gtfo.
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Aug 5, 2016 14:27
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devmd01 posted:lmfao this job is going downhill fast. Time to make it to the end of the year, collect my bonus paycheck, and gtfo. Or start interviewing now, find a job that wants you, then mention that you're expecting a bonus check and if they want you to start sooner see if they can match it. This probably only works if you're fairly senior though.
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Aug 5, 2016 15:10
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Collateral Damage posted:It's not black and white though. If you're working at a great company with great people and a mission you believe in that pays $80k you might pass on $100k at another company. But if you're barely scraping by on a $30k pay then no matter how cool the company is you'd be out of there in a blink if someone comes and offers you a $50k job. Yep! 36k in the Chicago suburbs doesn't cover my bills, and I'm not about to sacrifice my quality of life so the CEO, President (son of CEO) and president's brother (a tech on my level) can all buy new cars in the same year that we brought in a ton of clients and I closed a record number of tickets to make those new clients happy. They can't really claim I'm not being loyal to the workplace when they know they're getting a significant discount on my work because I lack experience. And to vindicate myself there in not looking like a whiny bottom-rung tech that wants everything handed to me immediately, I keep reminding myself that they called me 3 months after I left to offer me the salary I jumped ship for. On that phone call, when discussing what my responsibilities would be if I went back, the president mentioned that it would be a few months of catch-up since they were so far behind after I left, and that I would have to 're-earn' my place since the office atmosphere was that I had abandoned them. After a number of other off-handed comments about how I would need to shovel poo poo to earn respect back, I cancelled the interview and haven't heard back from those crazies since.
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Aug 5, 2016 15:36
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Judge Schnoopy posted:Yep! 36k in the Chicago suburbs doesn't cover my bills, and I'm not about to sacrifice my quality of life so the CEO, President (son of CEO) and president's brother (a tech on my level) can all buy new cars in the same year that we brought in a ton of clients and I closed a record number of tickets to make those new clients happy. They can't really claim I'm not being loyal to the workplace when they know they're getting a significant discount on my work because I lack experience. Ah, the old and ridiculous bargaining tactic of bluffing your way into a stronger position. I am fairly convinced that some people will never learn that sales practices =/= good management.
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Aug 5, 2016 15:40
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rafikki posted:Or start interviewing now, find a job that wants you, then mention that you're expecting a bonus check and if they want you to start sooner see if they can match it. This probably only works if you're fairly senior though. I'm not worried about it, I have a couple of really good projects (full datacenter move) I want to complete first. I can get them done in the next six months, if I can cut through the bullshit. Next role definitely has to be Sr. in the title, I've had enough experience. I'll take the VCP 5.5 exam in November so that will go on my resume too. I am going to start talking to people to see what's out there, but it has to be the right fit for my career. I have my eye on one company and have a contact there, so we'll see what happens! Good news is, the IT job market around here is really good. Lots of VC stuff happening with companies that interface with Salesforce, Interactive, etc., since their headquarters are here. Then again, the hr director joked that he's going to have to throw lots of money at me next year to make sure I stay. devmd01 fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Aug 5, 2016 |
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Aug 5, 2016 16:32
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