Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

Nubile Hillock posted:

Not sure if this is awesome car poo poo exactly, but I saw a dude's 500cc Sears lawn tractor. Motor came out of a Honda bike. Youtube flipped my video though :(



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDhFS9zor6M

Youtube has started to become self-aware and its first order of business has been to attempt to show people who film in portrait orientation the grievous error of their ways. It's still learning but it's getting there.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

DoLittle
Jul 26, 2006
My Summer Car on Steam Greenlight!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=651939391

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull

Slavvy posted:

What I find most amazing about these is that in a cost-no-object shoot-for-the-moon environment with all the carbon fiber this and exotic alloy that, it still has a distributor. Kind of like yamaha running carbs on their early motogp bikes but with even less explanation.

Let's see, that's 1981? I'd have to check some sources when I get home, but I think at that point they were still running mechanical fuel injection because they didn't yet have it figured out how to make EFI cope with fuel delivery requirements. There was actually a time when it was still all of the mechanical fuel injection parts with just a computer controlled stepper motor to move the fuel delivery rack.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
TLDR: axle/brake autism

El Scotch posted:

So I ended up behind this recently:


I dislike those tires (very little lateral stability as you'd expect, they do great in thick mud but that's not my thing) but otherwise a badass rig.

Godholio posted:

It's like he went searching for the least surface possible.
Not really, but the reason this is done on Rockwell axles like the ones pictured is that you lose about 100lbs of unsprung weight per corner when you remove the stock backing plates, cylinders, shoes, and drums. And most of these guys don't really hammer the brakes hard from a high speed to zero repeatedly, so the fact that there is very little braking moment (area * lever arm, blah blah blah) and very little rotor/drum thermal mass is not important because the 6.xx:1 diff ratio makes the pinion brake perfectly capable of stopping the wheels turning... at low speeds.

For reference, if you see a rig like this, count the lug nuts. If it has 6 they are 2.5-ton Rockwell axles, if it has 10 they are 5-ton Rockwell axles. 2.5s have 6.72:1 gear ratio overall, 5s have 6.44:1 overall.

IOwnCalculus posted:

Fun thing is to watch the tough truck challenges where sometimes they end up putting a shitload of heat through that brake and lighting it up like a racecar.

Don't you also get some advantage by braking before the axle gear reduction?

You do. It means the pinion brake works really great (up till you snap an axleshaft or two then it does NOTHING) but the lack of thermal mass of the rotor/drum still kills you if you intend to dump a lot of speed quickly and repeatedly. Thermal mass of the rotor/drum, weight and speed of the vehicle, mechanical advantage of the brakes (pressure, rotor/disc diameter, and shoe/pad area), brake cooling capability, and max effective temp of the brake pad compound are basically what limits how much braking you can do... thermal mass of the rotor being easily the cheapest way of fixing the problem if you're bodging something together from scratch to put on a custom vehicle.

Those axles have really massive brakes from the factory... offhand I'm not sure what size, but probably either 14 or 16 inch drum brake surface and pads a couple inches wide. They are, after all, designed to stop a 20 tons of truck plus cargo/trailer moving at 50mph.

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

mekilljoydammit posted:

Let's see, that's 1981? I'd have to check some sources when I get home, but I think at that point they were still running mechanical fuel injection because they didn't yet have it figured out how to make EFI cope with fuel delivery requirements. There was actually a time when it was still all of the mechanical fuel injection parts with just a computer controlled stepper motor to move the fuel delivery rack.

But I'm not talking about fuel, I'm talking about ignition. In 1981 even the cheapest shittiest motorbikes had CDI ignition so it doesn't seem unreasonable that a formula one team populated by rocket scientists and drowning in money could come up with something slightly less crap.

Queen_Combat
Jan 15, 2011
My 1979 CB 650 has CDI.

My 1988 Oldsmobile had CDI.

My 1998 CRV has a distributor.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

Geirskogul posted:

My 1979 CB 650 has CDI.

My 1988 Oldsmobile had CDI.

My 1998 CRV has a distributor.

The Mercedes M113 V8 engine had a distributor and you could get an S-class with that engine until like 2006.

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull
... you can run CDI through a distributor, and BMW did. In 1981, probably fixed advance. Hell, starting off the fuel delivery used an analog computer to control the servo on the injection pump. The electronics were so so so bad for a few years; BMW basically had to threaten to abandon/sue Brabham to make them stick with the turbo engines. But poking around, distributorless ignition didn't really come to F-1 until 86 or so.

Oh, and the thing with aged engines was a Formula 2 thing with the M12/13's predecessor, the 12/7. The 12/13 had the blocks "heat and chemical treated", which means who knows what.

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

All of the distributor equipped cars people have mentioned have CDI packaged in the distributor which is undoubtedly what that F1 engine had (albeit with fixed advance like you say). My point is that a wobbly mechanically driven shaft, an air gap the spark has to jump across and long plug wires are really inefficient compared to individual coils and the jump from a basic CDI to individual coils is almost entirely a matter of cost (which is why cars didn't get it until recently). That wouldn't be a problem in f1. The electronic aspect of it is so dirt simple that if you already have CDI in a distributor I can't think of any reason you wouldn't just go straight to COP or, at the very least, individual coils with short leads like an LSx. It's just a handful more wires.

Queen_Combat
Jan 15, 2011
Doesn't the "d" stand for "distributorless"? They have electronic ignitions, sure. But not CDI. There's still a mechanical thing moving spark around.

You're thinking we're arguing about points, which I don't think we are.

slothrop
Dec 7, 2006

Santa Alpha, Fox One... Gifts Incoming ~~~>===|>

Soiled Meat

This looks amazing

Thorbeef
Jul 24, 2007

This is the most excited I've been for a game for as long as I can remember

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull

Slavvy posted:

All of the distributor equipped cars people have mentioned have CDI packaged in the distributor which is undoubtedly what that F1 engine had (albeit with fixed advance like you say). My point is that a wobbly mechanically driven shaft, an air gap the spark has to jump across and long plug wires are really inefficient compared to individual coils and the jump from a basic CDI to individual coils is almost entirely a matter of cost (which is why cars didn't get it until recently). That wouldn't be a problem in f1. The electronic aspect of it is so dirt simple that if you already have CDI in a distributor I can't think of any reason you wouldn't just go straight to COP or, at the very least, individual coils with short leads like an LSx. It's just a handful more wires.

Well, not much in the way of a wobbly shaft, as the distributor was pretty much right on the end of the exhaust cam, but OK. And CDI at that point was a box about the size of a brick - similar to the MSD boxes now, but German. I think the point is more "why would you"? You have this thing that has worked for decades, is already on the car, the mechanics know how to fix, and it works. The Germans were very conservative in a lot of ways with their design, and had more than enough issues with getting electronic fuel delivery working right in this application (I mean seriously, analog computer with a servo controlling a mechanical injection setup) and COP wasn't common practice. Renault finally made it common practice a few years on when computers had improved and more importantly there were limits on fuel used and they had their pneumatic valve engine spinning to the moon.

It's easy to look at all these things now and say "well, why wouldn't you do ...?" and the answer is, a lot of the times, because they didn't have time or incentive to reinvent the wheel yet.

Geirskogul posted:

Doesn't the "d" stand for "distributorless"? They have electronic ignitions, sure. But not CDI. There's still a mechanical thing moving spark around.

You're thinking we're arguing about points, which I don't think we are.

Capacitive discharge ignition. Instead of ignition coil building a field and then collapsing it to make a spark, you have a capacitor dump into a field which just acts like a stepup transformer. Charges a lot faster.

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011

:h:



quote:

I am making this game because this game needs to be made. This is not made because this is fun game, but because it is NOT!

code:
IMPLEMENTED
Detailed driving simulation with Pacejka tire model
Car operating requires H-type shifter and clutch
Super difficult hardcore car building puzzle
Walking simulator
Car stereos with installable subwoofers
Camera to take photographs
Dead boring highway
Extensive damage system, for parts dropping off and wear and tear
Parts shop for spare parts and tuning parts
Does have graphics of some sort
Listen drunk people talk
Drunk NPC's
Passing out and waking up in random place
AI road traffic
Able to go to sauna, drink alcohol beverages and get wasted
Radio channel
Ability to import own OGG songs to radio
Rallycross-style dirt track
Drivable cargo van
Ability to steal fuel
Car inspection process
Online leaderboard rally event
Complete car build up from spark plug to full body tuning
Engine simulation with changing damage and performance scenarios
Early 90's Finnish countryside setting
Play slot machine in bar
Ability to chop wood for money
Drivable muscle car with true to life automatic transmission
Fully functional dashboard similar to flight simulator
Chop wood
Brake fluid, oil, coolant, fuel, carburetor management
Fast and dangerous dirt roads
First person controls, no immersion breakers
Permadeath
Drivable tractor
Physics bugs
PC-only game

PLANS, BUT NOT PROMISED!
Window stickers, like "More beer"
Rowing boat
Strawberry picking
Driving a log truck
Ability to make kilju and sell it to get some cash
Suomi KP/-31 to shoot fishes, cans, or something else
Drag strip and local drag racing events
Lively environment with houses, nature and animals
Permadeath? I wonder if you can drink yourself into the afterlife... Actually that should be hardmode. Wake up in hell and have to fix the worst cars in the universe 24/7 whilst on fire.

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull
Thinking about it on the drive in this morning, one of my favorite turbo-related examples of "... but why didn't they think of that!" was the Porsche 917 turbo.

Blah blah blah, historical context of why they went to Can Am... so they had this monster of an engine on the dyno, where they were getting all excited about the power output. They were doing the usual business of tuning, playing around with throttle increments and RPM and denote fuel flow so they can make a fuel injection map. And yes, it pretty much was a map - Porsche was using in their race cars anyway this thing called a Kugelfischer injection pump which had this complicated cam that worked to deliver fuel as a measure of RPM and throttle to a series of plunger injectors. It was probably the best fuel injection system in the world at the time. But then they take this fancy new thousand horsepower monster out to a test track and... it runs like dog poo poo. Lap times were if anything slower than the naturally aspirated version and it just sorta burbled around the track trailing black smoke until the turbos finally came on and it was suddenly making massive power, unless the driver backed out and it went back to trailing smoke. And they chased this problem for months. The engine would work perfectly on the dyno but just not work at all on the track.

Well, the fuel map was tuned on an engine dyno at steady state and the fuel injection didn't respond to boost at all. So the fuel map was tuned perfectly for every point when the engine was at full boost it could reach at that throttle position and RPM... but if the turbos weren't spooled yet, every single part of the fuel map was black-smoke stink rich. And because the engine dyno was steady state with data acquisition via a guy writing things in a notebook, at every datapoint on the dyno the turbos had time to spool. So they put a device on the injection pump to compensate for boost and all of a sudden the thing worked and they crushed everything in Can Am.

Nowadays it's blatantly obvious that fuel delivery has to be proportionate to boost, but not so much back then - nobody had ever seen the need before.

raej
Sep 25, 2003

"Being drunk is the worst feeling of all. Except for all those other feelings."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C30ihG-Ozko
RWB Philadelphia #1 | Prince (4K)

New RWB Porsche build

OBAMNA PHONE
Aug 7, 2002
wrong thread

BlackMK4
Aug 23, 2006

wat.
Megamarm
Meh, Porsche prices are already insane.

eberbs
Aug 29, 2011

And I wonder, I still wonder, who'll stop the rain.
check out the chooch from this russian radial engine

https://youtu.be/RW-G7pF6gUQ?t=2m24s

Bape Culture
Sep 13, 2006

It's not a car but it's certainly car related...

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/new-homes-for-sale/property-61046114.html

The best house I have ever ever seen. I wish I were a little rich boy then race driver 😰

Powershift
Nov 23, 2009


Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

eberbs posted:

check out the chooch from this russian radial engine

https://youtu.be/RW-G7pF6gUQ?t=2m24s

Running those things without a propeller is a bad move. They depend on the airflow for cooling.

Also, you gotta get one with the hand-cranked inertial starter :allears:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd_xVtcG5Dc&t=180s

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


Bape Culture posted:

It's not a car but it's certainly car related...
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/new-homes-for-sale/property-61046114.html
The best house I have ever ever seen. I wish I were a little rich boy then race driver 😰

Pro click :drat: Excuse the crappy screencap...

Queen_Combat
Jan 15, 2011

mekilljoydammit posted:

.


Capacitive discharge ignition. Instead of ignition coil building a field and then collapsing it to make a spark, you have a capacitor dump into a field which just acts like a stepup transformer. Charges a lot faster.
Whoops, my bad

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin
It's here guys

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/vw-gasoline-particulate-filters-cut-soot/

quote:

The first vehicles to be equipped with GPFs will start rolling out of production lines in June 2017 with the Volkswagen Tiguan’s 1.4 liter TSI engine and the Audi A5’s 2.0 TFSI motor. After that beginning, the company intends to implement the filters with additional models and subsequent engine generations. By 2022 as many as seven million VW Group vehicles could have GPFs annually, the company said.

Claiming that direct injection gasoline engines with GPFs could reduce particulate emissions (soot) by as much as 90 percent, VW’s head of group research and development, Dr. Ulrich Eichhorn said, “Following increases in efficiency and lower CO2 output, we are now bringing about a sustained reduction in the emission levels of our modern petrol engines by fitting particulate filters as standard.”

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

A year from now:

quote:

A investigation carried out on VW's new GPF systems found that soot emissions increased tenfold over baseline.

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011

:h:


So it has a filter, what happens to all the shite it collects?

Killstick
Jan 17, 2010

88h88 posted:

So it has a filter, what happens to all the shite it collects?

It collects untill you get a CEL then you go (limp mode of course) to your local VW dealership to get it replaced for the low price of 1499$.

The Prong Song
Sep 7, 2002


WHITE
DRIVES
MATTER
Saw this on the way to work a while ago. Second time I've seen him driving around.

BOOTY-ADE
Aug 30, 2006

BIG KOOL TELLIN' Y'ALL TO KEEP IT TIGHT

Rigged Death Trap posted:

A year from now:

My thought exactly after their whole emissions fiasco...does it mean 90% less than their fudged emissions numbers, or 90% less than the actual emissions?

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Do gasoline engines even make enough soot for a particulate filter to matter? When was the last time you were walking around your gas car and were like "drat, there's a lot of soot around the exhaust pipe, I should clean that off?"

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Killstick posted:

It collects untill you get a CEL then you go (limp mode of course) to your local VW dealership to get it replaced for the low price of 1499$.
Bringing coffee pod technology to cars.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


Sagebrush posted:

Do gasoline engines even make enough soot for a particulate filter to matter? When was the last time you were walking around your gas car and were like "drat, there's a lot of soot around the exhaust pipe, I should clean that off?"

Not enough to be immediately visible, but tailpipes do collect soot over time, even with modern engines.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Sagebrush posted:

Do gasoline engines even make enough soot for a particulate filter to matter? When was the last time you were walking around your gas car and were like "drat, there's a lot of soot around the exhaust pipe, I should clean that off?"

When I had my Mazdaspeed3, every few weeks.

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

Sagebrush posted:

Do gasoline engines even make enough soot for a particulate filter to matter? When was the last time you were walking around your gas car and were like "drat, there's a lot of soot around the exhaust pipe, I should clean that off?"

Well gasoline soot is absolutely tiny and made up of more volatile (lower boiling point) matter.

I've looked up some studies and research around on the internet, they're both from car manufacturers (Ford and Audi), but they both say the same things:
-DI creates more particulates than PFI, but only significantly when the A/F is rich.
-Particulate size is also increased over PFI
-But at higher loads the particulates are semivolatile, non nucleating matter.

An article from SAE in 2014 recommended either dual direct/port injection systems or filters while DI tech matures:

quote:

Cutting particle emissions

The GDI particulate problem can be mitigated in many ways, of course, but probably the most brute-force approach is Audi’s dual PFI/GDI system which it introduced at the 2014 North American International Auto Show. The plug-in hybrid concept features a primary GDI supplemented with indirect-injection PFI to lower particulate output during part-load operation enough to meet Euro 6 limits.

Another straightforward measure is aftertreatment—to mimic diesel engines and install gasoline particulate filters. Henry said that filters have been shown to lower PN emissions by 80% to 90% and meet Euro 6 limits. It’s no surprise that carmakers have so far avoided filters, which would add additional costs (around $50 to $100 per vehicle) and may reduce engine efficiency.

Although "green" critics call the alternative approach, so-called “engine management” methods, unreliable compared to exhaust filters, most OEMs and component suppliers expect that combustion design and engineering changes will prove more cost-efficient and eventually equally effective.

Technology managers at Bosch and Delphi indicate that new ultra-precision, non-thermal laser drilling techniques for making injector nozzle holes that deliver fuel in a more ideal fashion will greatly improve future GDI systems. Specialists will steadily optimize injector timing, targeting, metering and atomization as well as the point of injection to achieve this goal. Higher injection pressures will also contribute, they said.

Other potential solutions might be found in low-temperature combustion and cooled-EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirc) concepts that can cut GDI particle emissions as can using more ethanol in the gasoline which adds oxygen that inhibits soot formation, Henry said.

Maricq said that he expects that the GDI particulate problem will eventually yield to such measures as modified fuels or multiple injections per cycle, "which theoretically lets you tune when the fuel gets in there, so not too much gets there at once.”

“But it’s still early days,” he cautioned. “We don’t yet have a good handle on all the factors, all the knobs that engineers could turn, at least enough for us to confidently choose the sweet spot for addressing the problem.”

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

I think I'm just going to skip over all that garbage and keep driving my old cars with one catalytic converter (and my motorcycles with straight pipes through to the muffler) until electric becomes viable.

The Royal Nonesuch
Nov 1, 2005


Please tell me that exists to drive me between either A: Bourbon Distilleries or B: Wineries.

Please.

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Sagebrush posted:

I think I'm just going to skip over all that garbage and keep driving my old cars with one catalytic converter (and my motorcycles with straight pipes through to the muffler) until electric becomes viable.

My plan is to keep hoarding 90's cars and 2000's bikes until they stop selling petrol,

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

Slavvy posted:

My plan is to keep hoarding 90's cars and 2000's bikes until they stop selling petrol,

Buy a barn and make sure they can all fit over one lane bridges.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Jonny Nox
Apr 26, 2008




xzzy posted:

Buy a barn and make sure they can all fit over one lane bridges.

yeeeeeessssss!!

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply