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Epic High Five posted:That's murkier because that attitude is only partially driven by the boardroom.
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Sep 15, 2016 11:39
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Nessus posted:It is not impossible that the business class becomes, if not necessarily more moral, less blindingly short-sighted about everything. Like this whole "they have to get the stock prices up every quarter and are literally required to do so at all times," that one isn't actually true, it's a thing that could change. That would require them to value being forward thinking over short-term profits, which they have demonstrated almost a categorical aversion towards. Alternatively it would require a sea-change in corporate regulations, that would be fought tooth and nail by the very people it would help and be vulnerable to dismantlement down the line the moment the legislative climate becomes favorable to business again. It would also require overcoming the immense advantage in marketing and messaging power the business class has. Unfortunately, the people with all the power in our society are hell-bent on preserving the status quo and have the money and influence to do it. It's going to take more than the Democratic Party paying lip service to progressive causes to fix that. Meanwhile the clock continues to tick on global warming we're not doing a drat thing about worth mentioning.
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Sep 15, 2016 11:40
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I don't know enough about the minutiae of finance but the radical commie in me wants to see private business saddled with the demands for future solvency that the Republicans tried to kill the USPS to serve as a referendum of the frailty of private industry
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Sep 15, 2016 11:42
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Lightning Knight posted:That would require them to value being forward thinking over short-term profits, which they have demonstrated almost a categorical aversion towards.
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Sep 15, 2016 11:45
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Trump wants Peter Thiel in the SCOTUS, if he wins Your move, media.
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Sep 15, 2016 11:48
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Nessus posted:Just don't assume it will inevitably be that way - I think that is the greatest defense entrenched power has, making other people give up completely. (You are almost certainly right in the near term, of course) I am of the "be pessimistic, then be right or pleasantly surprised" school of thought. I also am viewing this through the lens of "Gilded Age -> anti-trust boom -> Roaring Twenties -> Great Depression -> New Deal -> dismantlement of union power in the 40s-50s -> Great Society, etc." and as such I'm not terribly worried about the cyclical nature of business capitalists versus working class progressives. Actually, in any other world, I'd be pretty optimistic right now. President Hillary will probably own, despite Republican obstructionism we'll probably do some good stuff, and demographics are on our side for the next 20 years. But we live in the "global warming is going to gently caress everything for people under the age of 40 and all of our children" world and we don't have 20 years, we need to have fixed the problem yesterday. Instead, we get to watch while idiotic businessmen cry about the dollars they aren't extracting from workers they have their boots on while the environment literally dies around us. So yeah. I'm not super excited for what it's going to be like when I'm my parents' age. That doesn't mean I think we should stop fighting. I'm just trying to temper my expectations accordingly.
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Sep 15, 2016 11:53
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https://twitter.com/polly/status/776099209183453184 A totally reasonable candidate
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Sep 15, 2016 11:59
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canepazzo posted:Trump wants Peter Thiel in the SCOTUS, if he wins
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Sep 15, 2016 11:59
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Pastrymancy posted:https://twitter.com/polly/status/776099209183453184 Ah, Jill Stein, always willing to be a convenient strawwoman of the left for Iron Rose to have anxiety attacks about. But no seriously gently caress Putin and his fascist government.
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Sep 15, 2016 12:02
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CBS poll out, 42-42 in 4 way LV, 41-39 Clinton RV. In a two way, it's 46-44 Clinton LV, 46-41 Clinton RV.
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Sep 15, 2016 12:04
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canepazzo posted:CBS poll out, 42-42 in 4 way LV, 41-39 Clinton RV. In a two way, it's 46-44 Clinton LV, 46-41 Clinton RV. If this is as bad as Clinton polls, after her worst week, I'm not super worried. Trump really does appear to have a mid 40 cap though.
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Sep 15, 2016 12:12
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canepazzo posted:Trump wants Peter Thiel in the SCOTUS, if he wins LOL. I used Roy Moore as my "judge so bad only Trump would nominate him" example but really I got Trumped. Yeah guy who practiced law for 7 months and used the justice system as his person attack dog is going to be great. Obviously we are safe in that specific example since Thiel would rather be living his Vampire The Masquerade Ventrue lifestyle than serving on the SCOTUS but this is pretty telling of what nightmare we would get. This is also a subtle hint of President Trump's war on the media he feels slighted him (so everyone) but of course those idiots are too dumb to pick up on it or think they will be safe because they are upper class and white like New York Times editors. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Sep 15, 2016 12:13
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Cthulhumatic posted:If this is as bad as Clinton polls, after her worst week, I'm not super worried. Trump really does appear to have a mid 40 cap though. Even more interesting, a TX poll's out with Trump up 7 on LV, but only up 1 in RV,  and down 4 in a two-way among RV https://twitter.com/evanasmith/status/776376704226820096 This loving election.
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Sep 15, 2016 12:16
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DaveWoo posted:Yeah, I don't know why some folks are so confident that Hillary will win the debate. Sure, she has the policy knowledge, but debates aren't won by knowing things; they're usually won with good quips and one-liners, which is what Trump excels at. Trump is a bully. This gives Clinton an advantage because it is socially unacceptable for women to be aggressive and the flip side of that is that it is socially unacceptable to be aggressive towards women. Read up on governor Anne Richards. She was down ten points in the polls when she had a debate with her opponent in which he was openly contemptuous of her. Republican men were willing to overlook it but republican women were pissed and Richards took the women's vote by twenty points making huge inroads with republican demographics. Trump is aggressive by nature and openly misogynistic. It's not a question of if he'll say something that pisses republican women off. It's a question of what he will say. Prester Jane has a betting pool for slurs. Trapezium Dave posted:I set my expectations on how Trump will perform from what I saw in the primary debates, but I thought he crumbled when put under any pressure and was especially weak against Carly Fiorina. Yep. The same effect protected Carly and she's a moron who lies about easily fact checkable things then doubles down on them. Trump knew he couldn't go after her like he could one of the guys but he doesn't really have any other mode of behavior. WampaLord posted:For the record, I do not think Trump will call her a bitch or a oval office during the debate. That works too. Richard's iconic moment was when Claytie left her hanging as she offered to shake hands. socialsecurity posted:No one has doubted Hillary's performance, they have doubted the media's ability to actually report what happened accurately. The quote at the top of my post directly questions Clinton's ability to debate trump. Other people expressed low expectations of her ability directly as well. Never underestimate the ability of people to underestimate a woman until they've seen her kick rear end with their own eyes. Mumbling posted:The combination of my personal arzying and suggestions from this thread have convinced me to sign up for a phone bank. Doing something, even if it's tiny, makes me feel more hopeful. Awesome! I'm signed up for about 16 hours of canvassing this weekend. Voter registration has been a blast as well.
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Sep 15, 2016 12:18
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My birthday is Nov 9. I'm pretty secure in a Clinton win, but if Texas goes blue I will consider it a personal gift from America to me
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Sep 15, 2016 12:20
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Epic High Five posted:That's murkier because that attitude is only partially driven by the boardroom. I spoke with a fellow who was a CFO of a financial place. His recounting was that you generally had five looping acts to this sort of nonsense. ACT I Young Ambitious Yuppie: Look at this opportunity to make a lot of money, at ZERO RISK!!! Old Embittered Accountant: Who told you there's zero risk? There's never zero risk. YAY: Psch, you just dont "get it". Business is about risk! OEA: You just claimed it was no risk. YAY: shut up we're doing this ACT II YAY: Ahaha I'm making so much money! I'm so smart! OEA: This is a bullshit scheme and you're going to be left holding poo poo. YAY: *snorts cocaine* I'm sorry who was wrong about me never making money on this? gently caress off. ACT III OEA: Hey look at these numbers, you're about to lose a lot of money. YAY: poo poo poo poo poo poo what do i do what do i do OEA: Cut your losses. YAY: NEVER I WILL NEVER LOSE MONEY WE'RE GOING TO DOUBLE OUR INVESTMENT THIS WILL FIX IT ACT IV YAY: help OEA: gently caress off YAY: i got promoted so im your boss, fix it or youre fired ACT V OEA: i spent three months unpaid overtime fixing this. YAY: thanks bro I guess we learned a real lesson here and this wont happen again OEA: kill me GOTO: ACT I ALTERNATIVE ACT V OEA: i quit YAY: *dies of cocaine overdose*
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Sep 15, 2016 12:21
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McAlister posted:Awesome! I became more busy after the end of the summer, but honestly I stopped volunteering mostly because it was totally exhausting. Because of where I live I'm basicslly the only young guy who does it in the area, and while old ladies are nice I wish there were some people my age. People are also clearly not down for this election around here. When I talked to people in 2012 they were either grudgingly Romney supporters or very enthusiastic Obama people. Now it's the opposite and nobody is ever happy to see a Hillary campaign worker around here. I think I've met one non-volunteer person who was pro-Hillary and excited, a very nice old black man.  Nobody else wants to even give me the time of day. It would probably be easier if my girlfriend was into politics, but she only really cares when I babble on about the crazy poo poo Trump did today. She's going to vote, but isn't interested in volunteering. I'm going in this weekend to probably phone bank but man, living in a red district in an increasingly red state blows. gently caress these people. On the topic of debates, I stand by my previous assessment: Hillary will do fine to good, but the media will slaver over Trump and he'll either stay the same or maybe lose some support with women. Absolute worst case scenario, Hillary gets called out for being "smug" for actually being qualified to be President and knowing stats and policy, and Trump gets like a point or something from morons.
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Sep 15, 2016 12:30
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VitalSigns posted:Democrats expanded Medicaid, but a Republican-dominated Supreme Court made sure that Republican-dominated states could reject it out of spite and political opportunism, loving over poor people of all colors so see what have Democrats done for blacks in Georgia and Mississippi and Texas, nothing that's what. That's what the real problem is. Democrats do make efforts to improve things on a national level, but the Republican dominance on state governance ensures they can squash any attempts out of spite and convince their voters the policy was to blame.
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Sep 15, 2016 12:33
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I'm starting to wonder what happens if Trump wins and obviously doesn't fulfill any of his campaign promises except for the ones that gently caress people for his personal benefit. Where does the country go from there where the GOP has embraced open white supremacy but life for the average white person gets notably worse.
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Sep 15, 2016 12:37
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Geostomp posted:That's what the real problem is. Democrats do make efforts to improve things on a national level, but the Republican dominance on state governance ensures they can squash any attempts out of spite and convince their voters the policy was to blame. But what do we do about it? The advantage conservatives have is structural to how our government is set up and would need constitutional changes to unfuck. Meanwhile the demographics shifts that are helping Dems won't fix the problem at the state level, at least not all the way. I honestly think we'd need a new constitution that doesn't massively favor rural conservatives and isn't actively against changes to the status quo to fix anything long term, and we don't have that kind of time considering our short-term problems. Never mind the laughable idea of even getting people to change the constitution at all, let alone write a new one. Edit: ^ they'll do what they always do, blame liberals and claim the evil progressives tainted the conservative vision, and that Trump was an imposter liberal claiming to be conservative.
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Sep 15, 2016 12:39
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Pastrymancy posted:https://twitter.com/polly/status/776099209183453184 Fun fact, I actually voted for Stein in 2012, mainly because my grandmother is a registered Green and she wanted to give the Greens more visibility so they could potentially get federal funding (as if the Greens would be able to use it competently, let alone have a chance of getting it). And now every time Stein does something crazy/stupid I always think "gently caress, I voted for that nutcase".
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Sep 15, 2016 12:44
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Donkwich posted:Fun fact, I actually voted for Stein in 2012, mainly because my grandmother is a registered Green and she wanted to give the Greens more visibility so they could potentially get federal funding (as if the Greens would be able to use it competently, let alone have a chance of getting it). And now every time Stein does something crazy/stupid I always think "gently caress, I voted for that nutcase". I mean, just think of all the dumb motherfuckers who've voted for, uh, any Republican ever, and don't even feel bad about it. Like it sometimes blows my mind, just a little itty bit, that there are people who voted for W. TWICE and don't regret it at all.
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Sep 15, 2016 12:47
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Many Trump supporters have outright said that they don't care if Trump doesn't deliver on his campaign promises (many of them don't think the wall will ever be built), they just want to vote for him because they believe in him. It's nothing more than a cult of personality. I'm surprised Trump's protectionist attitudes aren't alienating the GOPe more. Do they just care about Pence making the actual decisions at this point?
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Sep 15, 2016 12:50
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Radish posted:I'm starting to wonder what happens if Trump wins and obviously doesn't fulfill any of his campaign promises except for the ones that gently caress people for his personal benefit. Where does the country go from there where the GOP has embraced open white supremacy but life for the average white person gets notably worse.
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Sep 15, 2016 12:52
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Donkwich posted:Many Trump supporters have outright said that they don't care if Trump doesn't deliver on his campaign promises (many of them don't think the wall will ever be built), they just want to vote for him because they believe in him. It's nothing more than a cult of personality. Pence is an afterthought. They care more about the gestures of leadership than the implementation
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Sep 15, 2016 12:59
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Forgall posted:The answer is that they will become even more racist. Yeah that's a given but what does that result in. Does David Duke win the next Republican primary after Trump becomes bored in 2020 then we have Rush and Hannity telling the country to back him because he's the conservative choice? Even if they don't actually believe he's going to do anything for him, life in small town white America is going to get MUCH worse based on prior GOP leadership and Trump and the current congress are going to ramp that poo poo up to 11 before they demographically get shut out.
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Sep 15, 2016 12:59
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Radish posted:I'm starting to wonder what happens if Trump wins and obviously doesn't fulfill any of his campaign promises except for the ones that gently caress people for his personal benefit. Where does the country go from there where the GOP has embraced open white supremacy but life for the average white person gets notably worse. They'll be fine so long as someone darker than they are gets it all worse. Attempts to improve their lot is always rejected if it helps non-white people as well. Either way, non-whites will be blamed. If Republican voters needed logic to justify their votes, the party would have died 30 years ago.
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Sep 15, 2016 13:00
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canepazzo posted:Even more interesting, a TX poll's out with Trump up 7 on LV, but only up 1 in RV, If Texas saves us all from President Trump I'm going to have a fuckload of crow to eat.
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Sep 15, 2016 13:01
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Donkwich posted:I'm surprised Trump's protectionist attitudes aren't alienating the GOPe more. Do they just care about Pence making the actual decisions at this point? They think because he's stupid and a political neophyte they'll be able to control him once he's in office and he'll rubberstamp whatever the Republican congress passes. If he acts up, they'll just sit him down and explain that he's not to gently caress up the gravy train for the superrich. They think it will work out like when they stopped the Tea Party morons from defaulting on the debt. The David Camerons of the world never see it coming when something fucks up and their dumb populist rhetoric suddenly becomes policy. Obviously the extreme example and worst-case-scenario of conservative aristocrat drinking from this poisoned chalice is, of course, Franz Von Papen.
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Sep 15, 2016 13:06
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VitalSigns posted:They think because he's stupid and a political neophyte they'll be able to control him once he's in office and he'll rubberstamp whatever the Republican congress passes. If he acts up, they'll just sit him down and explain that he's not to gently caress up the gravy train for the superrich. Why they assume they could control him after failing to do so for this long, I have no idea.
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Sep 15, 2016 13:18
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God, can you imagine how much the fascists and racists in this country will be encouraged if he becomes president? That statement Mitt Romney said about "trickle-down racism" is probably one of the few smart things he's said; the president sets the tone for the country, so you can guess what's going to be the result of letting an orange neo-Nazi take the Oval Office.
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Sep 15, 2016 13:21
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Geostomp posted:Why they assume they could control him after failing to do so for this long, I have no idea. Because they're the wealthy, monied class used to being in control of everything. They just assume they can do it.
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Sep 15, 2016 13:21
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AhhYes posted:If Texas saves us all from President Trump I'm going to have a fuckload of crow to eat.  If Hillary wins Texas and would have lost the election otherwise, I will jump into the sun. (Or you know, get banned.)
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Sep 15, 2016 13:23
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Night10194 posted:Because they're the wealthy, monied class used to being in control of everything. They just assume they can do it. Not only that, but in a hypothetical world where Trump wins, he's in it for the fame and the money. Given the Presidency comes with fame, they offer the other half, money, in exchange for getting what they want. We already have seen that Trump will listen to donors one on one and take what they say under advisement. There's no reason to think that if he wins, that both the business leaders of America and Trump wouldn't get together for the sake of making themselves richer at our expense. The whole conflict is that the business wing isn't confident Trump can or should win. If he does, there's no benefit to them not just lining up, kissing the ring, and going on as if it were business as usual.
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Sep 15, 2016 13:25
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Night10194 posted:Because they're the wealthy, monied class used to being in control of everything. They just assume they can do it. Also if they gently caress up like Eric Cantor and get screwed who cares they get to run off to a high paying law firm or consulting job.
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Sep 15, 2016 13:27
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I'm assuming 'saves' is in the sense that we won't even have to worry about the swing states if Texas flips.
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Sep 15, 2016 13:27
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Most people in American cannot conceive of an actual disaster that makes our country stop being relatively safe and secure.
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Sep 15, 2016 13:29
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Geostomp posted:Why they assume they could control him after failing to do so for this long, I have no idea. I mean, they might be right. It could work out. And Cameron might have won the Brexit vote, it almost worked out that way. It's just, you know, the mere fact he had to promise that referendum to eke out a win should have been a tipoff that he was taking a big risk. If they get the White House, they will control Congress and the Supreme Court, they will be one signing pen in an orange-fingered grip away from pillaging the country. So they're probably willing to engage in a lot of wishful thinking: "get the White House first, worry about keeping Trumpism in line later"
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Sep 15, 2016 13:29
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Also my question is more about what events happen. It's obvious that once Trump and his policies totally decimate what's left of the areas that are already struggling due to loss of factory and union jobs white people are going to become even more racist and xenophobic. Does this result in the KKK making a comeback as a "respectable" organization? Do we really start implementing loyalty tests? Return of explicit Jim Crow laws? A year ago I wouldn't believe how quickly white America embraced open white nationalism and Trump being president who will be catastrophically bad while also stoking racist beliefs daily is going to REALLY scary. The media in general has shown it's totally fine going along with this which is even more frightening.
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Sep 15, 2016 13:36
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We'll still win. Panicking like this doesn't do anyone any good. If you're as worried as people in the thread sound, get to a volunteer station and do your part.
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Sep 15, 2016 13:41
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