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I was glad to see that I wasn't the only one who had trouble recognizing Tyrell. It made me start to feel like Elliot, forgetting who people are.
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Sep 17, 2016 00:30
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Blind Rasputin posted:Apparently part of the very last scene at the end of next week's episode was just leaked. If true, this adds to the idea that Angela and Elliott's parents were test subjects for a global plague. I'm going to guess that Angela and Elliott are immune to it and that Whiterose is aware of that fact as well, for whatever endgame he's running. Unless that's what he meant when he said she should have "expired" 90 days ago but I'm sure he just meant straight-up murder. Since he can't kill her, he does not want Angela to keep digging into the deaths, otherwise, she will learn about the plague. I think Dom is going to start connecting the dots in Season3 if she's not killed off in this episode. Which I would hate because I've liked her character since her first appearance. edit: loving hell. Completely missed this post. SyRauk fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Sep 17, 2016 |
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Sep 17, 2016 00:39
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Hand Row posted:Then why would Tyrell be meeting with Elliot if Elliot shot him? Because Phase Two is that important, whatever Phase Two is.
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Sep 17, 2016 00:39
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SyRauk posted:If true, this adds to the idea that Angela and Elliott's parents were test subjects for a global plague. I'm going to guess that Angela and Elliott are immune to it and that Whiterose is aware of that fact as well, for whatever endgame he's running. Unless that's what he meant when he said she should have "expired" 90 days ago but I'm sure he just meant straight-up murder. Since he can't kill her, he does not want Angela to keep digging into the deaths, otherwise, she will learn about the plague. edit: Seriously people, how hard is it to google things. Kwyndig fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Sep 17, 2016 |
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Sep 17, 2016 00:40
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Kwyndig posted:That's fake, it's from the end of the original Deus Ex. From the intro, actually https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zStn70Ot4r0
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Sep 17, 2016 00:42
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You're right. Either way, totally easy to debunk.
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Sep 17, 2016 00:44
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Blind Rasputin posted:Speaking of camera work. I think the way they shot Dom's falling asleep scene was really well done. She had zero makeup on, looked truly real and exhausted, and there was something about the delivery of it all with the closeness and angle that made it undeniably lonely. It was just good. It was done so well I thought she was gonna pull a gun and shoot herself when she turned to the side.
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Sep 17, 2016 00:47
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Snak posted:This gimmick almost borders on obnoxious, but I think it's really effective. It has been used throughout the show, and it does a lot of things for me. Yeah, it's good, but there are a few things that stand out as on the nose though. That scene with Angela in white and Price in black, moving to sit in front of a black painting in a stark white office made me roll my eyes a bit.
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Sep 17, 2016 01:05
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Unlike Tyrell, I'm pretty sure Darlene and Cisco are dead. After the shooting, some time passes and Dom is in the hospital. She wants to go back to the crime scene, but says nothing about questioning person-of-interest Cisco or his girlfriend, who more likely would be in holding or in a hospital. Neither she nor her boss mention them at all beyond "you hosed up by putting out the BOLO" They're dead
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Sep 17, 2016 02:30
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Actually, Dom says something about getting to do the interview. I assume she means interrogating Darlene. So it hink Darlene is alive and Cisco is dead. Otherwise there would be more than one interview.
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Sep 17, 2016 02:35
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The episode description also mentions Darlene. I'm assuming the description is the same for part 1 as part 2.
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Sep 17, 2016 02:49
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Snak posted:Actually, Dom says something about getting to do the interview. I assume she means interrogating Darlene. So it hink Darlene is alive and Cisco is dead. Otherwise there would be more than one interview. Yeah, I don't think the shooter had enough time to guarantee two kills.
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Sep 17, 2016 02:54
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Watching the HD Zoom-In, you can see two red sprays. One from Cisco's head or neck. One from a bottle next to Darlene. If Darlene was hit, the bullet would've had to pass through the diner's outer wall. I think it's likely that she's uninjured, save maybe some lacerations from all the glass.
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Sep 17, 2016 02:54
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I assumed the interview was with dark army motorcycle man that drove away, like maybe he got caught before he could shoot himself
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Sep 17, 2016 02:56
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I mean, gently caress the tactical realism of how injured Darlene might be. Realistically, they could easily all be dead. But, a) I don't think they would kill off both characters like that, b) Dom wants to interview someone, and c) I don't think Darlene is dead because of my gut. But then again, Shayla, so... Edit: ^thats possible, but if a guy on a motorcycle can't kill himself before he gets arrested, he's doing something really wrong. But again, I'm nit basing my idea based in realism, but on the story. Dom questioning Darlene is the most interesting thing, followed by Dom questioning Cisco. Snak fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Sep 17, 2016 |
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Sep 17, 2016 02:58
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We know who's dead and who isn't. It was shown on screen, someone blew it up and slowmo'd it.
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Sep 17, 2016 03:07
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Problematic Pigeon posted:It was the Feds and Dom breaking into Cisco's apartment, not the attendant's. You're right, after the rewatch I saw Cisco's face on the badge (real name Francis Shaw, Shayla's actress' name). In that case what was up with the editing? Those two events had nothing in common but were clearly being juxtaposed, and Elliot would have recognized Cisco's address. The only other person+location we've seen that the bodyguard would dismissively sigh about is the guy he murdered so that still seems plausible.
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Sep 17, 2016 03:08
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Darlene being killed off at this point in the show is probably the most unbelievable theory imaginable.
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Sep 17, 2016 03:24
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Analytic Engine posted:You're right, after the rewatch I saw Cisco's face on the badge (real name Francis Shaw, Shayla's actress' name). It's something the whole episode does, intercutting two or three plots which may or may not have anything to do with one another, in order to increase the pacing and make it feel like everything is happening at once to better reflect the net closing in around Elliot, Angela, and Darlene. Most episodes seem to stick with long scenes that stick with one plot before moving to the next, but because that one was building up to the Lupe's shooting, it kept bouncing around to raise tension and give the overall plot more of a runaway train feel. Cisco's apartment had nothing directly to do with the phone. It just showed that while Elliot is doing this, Dom is getting closer and closer to his sister, and intercutting them drives this home better than otherwise. Also, I'm thinking the location might instead be Scott Knowles's place. The driver has been there, so he'd recognize the address, and it would explain his confusion.
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Sep 17, 2016 04:12
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precision posted:Darlene being killed off at this point in the show is probably the most unbelievable theory imaginable. Nah I can beat that, turns out White Rose's plan actually IS time travel (it is NOT time travel good god drat guys) but it's based on calculations made by a man who is trying to restore his sister to life. That's right, season 3 of Mr. Robot actually turns out to be season 4 of Hannibal!
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Sep 17, 2016 04:20
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precision posted:Darlene being killed off at this point in the show is probably the most unbelievable theory imaginable. This. She's too important to the events of this season and to Elliot to die like that.
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Sep 17, 2016 04:22
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DaveKap posted:Okay well here we go. Here's my "actual" theory because drat this show if it's going to turn into Syfy channel bullshit. 'Stage 2' here is an interesting thought. At the end of Season 1, Price says that he knows who did the hack and he'll deal with him in due time. If he wants ECoin to be successful then Not Silk Road would have to be taken down. Since killing Ray wouldn't be enough to do it, they'd need someone to access the site itself and take it down like that. That leads me to believe that Elliot was set up to go into that prison and with all the pieces in place to get access to the Ray's computer. Of course with the Price-Zhang connection it fell upon the Dark Army to order Leon to watch Elliot's back. Otherwise, if Price knew Elliot did it and didn't have some use for him, why not just eliminate him immediately in case he doesn't something else catastrophic? n.. posted:No one is really mentioning what I thought was the single most important line in last episode, when White Rose tells Angela "that depends on your definition of 'real'", followed by her visit to lawyer lady acting all elated and robotic and the "glitch in the matrix" brownout/TV repeat. What did he show her??? It felt more matrixy than anything else, what else could he mean by that? I half expected him to say "if real is what you can see and touch, then reality is just electrical signals interpreted by your brain" after that. What I thought was even more interesting was how Whiterose said that Elliot's father and Angela's mother "gave their lives to take humanity to the next level." That's a massive implication for what's going on at the Washington Township plant. I'd like to think that it's much bigger than virtual reality or a construct like the matrix. Something that affects humans on a direct, physical level. Whiterose implied that whatever happened at the plant to make their parents ill also set Angela and Elliot on the paths to become who the currently are. There's obviously something special about Elliot, but Angela's also got something going on that makes her almost untouchable. I suppose it's easy to jump to a time travel conclusion with the BTTF musical cues and the other vague references that were dropped throughout. I'm not 100% sold on the brownouts being something like time shifts, even though that news report repeated lines during the brownout at the lawyer's house. I should review the last few episodes for brownouts and see if there are any other clues there.
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Sep 17, 2016 04:25
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Maybe I'm mistaken, but I could have sworn there was a throwaway line about the city not paying employees, and the power workers striking. I could be mixing this up with another show though Also, Darlene isn't dead, come on
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Sep 17, 2016 04:38
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A couple things about the lucid dream state: 1) There's a secondary voice that echoes Elliot's when he's reciting the mantra to get himself to lucid dream. Was that meant to be "us"? Or is the voice someone else - a third party persona that even scares off Mr. Robot? 2) Angela's surreal interview happens between the scenes of Elliot falling asleep and waking up, and we see shots of him laying on his pillow bookending that sequence. A lot of people mentioned how Lynchian it felt, but I haven't seen many specific Lynch references. A similar presentation happened in Mulholland Drive: Dreamlike scenes of characters set in different roles from real life, which happen in between POV shots of a pillow. Did that interview really happen? And if it did, were the characters we saw really the characters in the scene?
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Sep 17, 2016 04:50
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Skizzzer posted:There's been some good posts on this during season 1. For example, Unfortunately, what I'm unhappy with is Esmail's insistence on being the director for the entirety of Season 2, which means he has been completely oversaturating the show with this stuff. If I was keeping track, I'd make a better argument for this, but trust me when I tell you this: All throughout Season 2 Esmail has been putting people in the corners of the frame with absolutely no proper reasoning. There have been occasional times when it was important, where it conveyed a deeper meaning or a metaphor, but the majority of Season 2's "cool cinematography" (with regards to framing, mind you) has been purely masturbatory, done just to be different. It's almost as though Esmail forgot why other directors on his show were doing this and just sorta says "okay let's do it again now, okay let's do it again here too, yeah let's get everyone shoved into a corner." You get my point so I'll stop digging into this one further but it's worth noting that other cinematography has been very well done. Some good long takes (though none as good as Season 1's very long take,) some interesting depth-of-field use (I've never seen anywhere in television or cinema a focus change as quick as the one we saw a few episodes back,) and some amazing soundtrack editing has helped make every cold open a memorable one. It's purely the framing that needs some reeling in. New topic: Filler. This show used to be a movie. I think this perfectly explains why the ratings have gone down and some folks have felt like this season is relatively worse than the last (me.) However, it's not purely due to story structure getting expanded but rather how obviously segmented the "let's make this for TV" filler is. Now, I say "filler" but I'm being positive with this: Season 1's filler was good and Season 2's filler isn't necessarily bad. The problem with filler comes in four parts: Location - where you put the filler, Quality - is the filler cheaply put together, Length - how long the filler goes on, and Linking - how the filler pertains to the A plot of the show. (Believe me, I tried to use an "L" word for Quality but Latency seemed like too much of a stretch.) I asked a friend (who has only seen Season 1, he's going to binge 2 when it's over) what they thought Season 1's filler was. Funny enough, they mentioned Tyrell's wife and Angela getting hacked before I had to remind them of Shayla's entire plot, at which point they agreed. Shayla was, for all intents and purposes, the largest filler for the plot of the show. It is, however, fantastic. Location - Her plot was smack dab in the middle of the season, quality - the writing and filming of her plot was well done enough that you would cry when you discover she's dead, length - it was just long enough to care without getting bored, and linking - she was the catalyst for Elliot wanting to detox (important change for main character that changes him for rest of story.) So we now have Season 1's filler defined with an explanation for how well it worked. Now we go to Season 2 where, guess what, Elliot in prison is the filler. Now let's work with the assumption (for the benefit of the doubt) that he's in prison for the reasons I've previously theorized: He had to go in on purpose to take down Ray's Silk Road in order to move on to Stage 2. If we look at the whole of the prison filler, we judge as such: Location and Length we can hit at the same time - it's the first seven loving episodes of the season. Yes, obviously there is plenty of B plot to be had which helps sustain an A plot narrative but at the end of the day, Elliot and Mr. Robot are the protagonist. This is not Game of Thrones all of a sudden and we're allowed to think that the other characters are now also main characters. Elliot and Mr. Robot still have a job to do out in the real world and taking 7 episodes to pull off a hack is not an A plot let alone a good filler plot. Unfortunately, because this plot had to take place in "twist" land, it also had to begin at the start of the season when people were still trying to ease themselves into what the freshly successful show is going to try to do to make us interested after a long break. Instead of continuing where it left off, they jumped forward in the timeline and smacked us with filler right off the bat. We didn't know it at the time, either, but like all the reasons Episode 1 of Star Wars was bad, our brain knew it. 7 episodes long, start of the season, these are bad places for filler. Quality - Eh, it was fine enough. There was good writing and filming throughout but the pace could occasionally overshadow what we witnessed. Finally, Linking - with the assumption that it was done as a pre-requisite to get Stage 2 off the ground? Sure! That's actually a perfectly fine reason for this filler to exist and it works well in my opinion. However, separate ourselves of this assumption and get back to the real world and... we know nothing yet. We're working off theories and assumptions but we still don't know for real if Elliot purposefully went to prison to get a job done or if it was all just happenstance and they just literally could not come up with something better to write for filling up the season before touching on the A plot again. The simple fact that we don't know this yet is a problem, however. That's what makes the show feel like Lost - we don't understand what makes significant chunks of time in this show important to the overall plot. So, in conclusion (I'm so sorry if you read all of this and didn't get some kind of insight) the inadequacies of Season 2's primary filler plot - required to extend the movie format of this story into television show length - have weakened the overall narrative of the show by being placed at the start of the season and for going on too long with a tenuous-at-best reason for even existing. I hope I never have to write an SA post this long for another few years. Blind Rasputin posted:^^^ I love this poo poo. It's more interesting than I thought seeing how they use character placement to almost subconsciously drive the story to the viewer. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Sep 17, 2016 |
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Sep 17, 2016 06:36
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While I don't quite see how the prison stuff was necessary for Phase 2 so far, I do have to agree re. framing and filler. Often the cinematography choices work well, but at several points this season I was also wondering why the hell are they framing stuff weirdly; it just didn't feel justified. For the prison stuff, I already mentioned that I would've preferred if they dealt with it in just a couple of episodes - maybe the finale will tie it together better but I doubt it could really justify it retroactively. Also some of the monotone narration is starting to be obnoxious.
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Sep 17, 2016 08:41
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Hand Row posted:Then why would Tyrell be meeting with Elliot if Elliot shot him? Because he never shot him. Mr Robot was lying Tyrell being Elliot is completely impossible, there is no way it can make any sense I feel like the cab scene was Esmail playing with fan theories I expect (and hope) next episode will start with a flashback finally showing what really happened in that night at the arcade Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Sep 17, 2016 |
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Sep 17, 2016 20:06
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Maybe Tyrell has been hiding in the Washington township? Him being in Scott Knowle's apartment doesn't make sense at this point and would be boring. Tyrell has been hiding somewhere off the grid that pertains to Stage 2, of that much I am certain.
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Sep 17, 2016 23:05
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Who else actually repeated "mind awake body asleep" out loud when Elliot asked?
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Sep 17, 2016 23:15
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CloFan posted:Maybe I'm mistaken, but I could have sworn there was a throwaway line about the city not paying employees, and the power workers striking. I could be mixing this up with another show though There was a scene earlier in the season where I Elliot mentioned that some public services could not pay their people so they stopped working, like the guys picking up the garbage. This in turn actually created a business of its own, where people would pick up your trash for bit coins and burn it for you. sticklefifer posted:A couple things about the lucid dream state: I thought I was hearing a faint woman's voice. Which would be a interesting connection to Angela, since the scene immediately following Elliot's mantra is her on that surreal interview.
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Sep 18, 2016 00:09
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CloFan posted:Maybe I'm mistaken, but I could have sworn there was a throwaway line about the city not paying employees, and the power workers striking. I could be mixing this up with another show though No, there was that line from like a newcast in the background or something like that, but they did explain why the brownouts were happening.
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Sep 18, 2016 00:11
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Elias_Maluco posted:Who else actually repeated "mind awake body asleep" out loud when Elliot asked? Only the people who also stand up when Dora asks them to.
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Sep 18, 2016 00:59
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Elias_Maluco posted:Who else actually repeated "mind awake body asleep" out loud when Elliot asked? No only did I do this, but I didn't realise his voice was going to keep repeating during the fade to black and the first time I said it I was surprised that he was saying it with me.
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Sep 18, 2016 01:41
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Doctor Butts posted:It just seemed far fetched that a man who was not the head of a political group, did not preside directly over all policy, would be remembered as the most powerful person in the world. Carlos Slim is the most important man in mexico and isn't el presidente lots of people pay attention to what Warren Buffet does because he has had a 40+ year track record of good investments if Price's goal is to destroy the US dollar and replace it with his own currency that he can "mint" and control, I could see that being a lasting legacy maybe Elliot gave Tyrell the gun from the pop corn maker to go and shot Romero's character. Romero seemed to the closest to breaking off completely and being a drug dealer made him a liability. I could see either Elliot or Tyrell being Romero's killer. I think Price means that Tyrell is the person who did the 5/9 Hack and is waiting for him to surface. Elliot went to jail because he was having emotional problems, he plead guilty to a felony; even crazy people know not to go to jail willingly: Elliot needed to detox his brain is my opinion. To think that one prison warden would be running a majority of the worlds black market is dumb. Ray says he wife set it up before she died and he didn't want to look at what was going on and needed help getting access to the digital wallets. Maybe the Dark Army and/or Mr Robot wanted to take down Not Silk Road to devalue Bit Coins but there are tons of illegal web sites on the dark web. Even if Ray was the Pirate Bay of the Dark Web there will always be smaller fish in the pond and removing the big one just gives room for the smaller ones to grow. Busting one drug dealer just means that other drug dealers get to make more money in the short run while the market fixes it's self. I like what Dom said about the Chinese maybe starting an act of war. I did college debate and the threat of infrastructure collapse was argued all the time. The USA has too old of a power grid and not enough backups in place, a nation wide blackout for even 2-3 days would put the USA into a state of anarchy. Imagine the riots in Venezuela right now but all over the USA, that would be a perfect time for China to swoop in and "takeover" by offering bail outs or sending over electrical engines for emergency power. If China would take it's four trillion in US treasury bonds and convert it to anything, it would ruin the US economy. The US needs China and Japan to buy trillions of dollars of treasury bonds and if either of those nations did a "bank call" it would be like a Wonderful Life all over the USA.
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Sep 18, 2016 02:02
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As much as I love Price's actor, exploding E-Corp headquarters and everyone inside would be a hell of an ending. It'd also give Whiterose the opportunity to urinate on another E-Corp CEO's grave. From a squatting position. The squatting last time made me wonder if Whiterose is biologically female, and if her parents administered hormone therapy because sons have better lives and greater worth than daughters in mainland China. Preview Chat: If the 'blow it up' theory is correct, maybe Tyrell helped them access more of E-Corp's IT infrastructure than we realized, allowing them to rig the replacement servers with explosives. There was a map with pins all over it and trucks being loaded. ^^I'm not confident in this theory but boy that'd loving rule. Obviously they'd require state sponsorship from China to pull that off but god drat.
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Sep 18, 2016 03:11
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Accretionist posted:As much as I love Price's actor, exploding E-Corp headquarters and everyone inside would be a hell of an ending. It'd also give Whiterose the opportunity to urinate on another E-Corp CEO's grave. From a squatting position. You can read more about White Rose here: http://www.vulture.com/2015/09/bd-wong-mr-robot-whiterose-playing-transgender.html -- B.D. Wong 
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Sep 18, 2016 03:20
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LentThem posted:I assumed the interview was with dark army motorcycle man that drove away, like maybe he got caught before he could shoot himself Implausible. By the time the third police car races by the crime scene to get him, we already know he is pretty far away (from the motorcycle engine sound fading away). mobby_6kl posted:While I don't quite see how the prison stuff was necessary for Phase 2 so far, I do have to agree re. framing and filler. Often the cinematography choices work well, but at several points this season I was also wondering why the hell are they framing stuff weirdly; it just didn't feel justified. For the prison stuff, I already mentioned that I would've preferred if they dealt with it in just a couple of episodes - maybe the finale will tie it together better but I doubt it could really justify it retroactively. Also some of the monotone narration is starting to be obnoxious. I don't think that the prison stuff was necessary for phase 2 either. I think it was just a filler, designed to show how Elliot tried (and failed) to cope with his split personality problems by forcing himself to go to prison, pick a routine and try to drown Mr Robot via routine. The whole Ray arc thing seems pretty circumstantial to me, more designed to give some insight into Elliot char dev than promoting the main story.
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Sep 18, 2016 03:30
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Elliot is basically hacker Jesus, and his prison stint was his 40 days (or 87, but who's counting) in the desert.
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Sep 18, 2016 04:17
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Golashes posted:I didn't think that was a different actor? I'm not to the end of this thread yet (in case more is revealed) but he felt off to me. Perhaps physically just a different haircut, but his mannerisms and speech were very different.
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Sep 18, 2016 04:47
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Feenix posted:I'm not to the end of this thread yet (in case more is revealed) but he felt off to me. Perhaps physically just a different haircut, but his mannerisms and speech were very different. He seemed keyed up and insecure before. To satisfy his wife, he was trying to become CTO and was failing hard. Now he has a new goal and he's succeeding.
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Sep 18, 2016 05:01
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