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I still have my PSVR Bundle preorder for Amazon. As I still don't have a PS4, I am probably just going to flip it on Ebay unless someone really want's it on here I guess. I haven't had the time to enjoy the VR stuff I currently have near as much as I'd Like, so I will probably get a PS4 Pro + PSVR bundle whenever they appear eventually.
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Oct 5, 2016 19:18
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Currently streaming some artists using Medium at OC3, pretty  EDIT: Aaaand, now its broken :/ I love Medium - I cannot wait to get touch controllers. Delta-Wye fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Oct 5, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2016 19:34
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Cojawfee posted:Unfortunately there's just no way to make the PSVR motion controllers be accurate. All you can track is that ball and you can't get any orientation from that. Even then, it can only get position based on the size of the ball from the camera's perspective. That's not very accurate. All there is for orientation is whatever IMUs it has. That's going to lead to drift. Sony really should have made new motion controllers. Using technology from several years ago is not a good idea. Yeah I agree. They could try to push Move Pro at some point in the future, but doing so wouldn't be very welcome by consumers. They've screwed this up a bit. I still think hand judder can be easily smoothed out in software, just have to get away from the idea of perfect 1:1 motion. Ignore motions smaller than a certain distance or velocity, and just update positions as needed. If there's some drift, just ignore it, and then when the player makes a major gesture you can correct his hand position real fast. Should work fine. But the things you discussed are still major issues for VR control. PSVR is feeling like its gonna be best as a seated headset + controller experience, which can still do a lot of fun things, but flat out cannot deliver the kind of experiences that VIVE can which are so great, like Job Simulator, which is already on PSVR and just isn't the same from what I've seen.
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Oct 5, 2016 19:55
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s.i.r.e. posted:So the Giant Bomb guys are playing some sort of street luge game and they have to lay down on the couch to play and the PSVR keeps breaking track, so what do they do? Gerstmann holds the camera in his hands closer to the headset. Giant Bomb, taking dumb to the next level. Did you only catch the back half of that or something? Brad played it normally first, sitting up. Then they had Dan lay down and they were intentionally moving the camera around to try and make him sick. But yeah, the camera kept breaking tracking so it wasn't possible.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:12
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StarkRavingMad posted:Did you only catch the back half of that or something? Brad played it normally first, sitting up. Then they had Dan lay down and they were intentionally moving the camera around to try and make him sick. But yeah, the camera kept breaking tracking so it wasn't possible. They were trying to make him *not* sick, he found luging while sitting up uncomfortable and couldn't lie down in such a way that the camera could track him in its original position.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:13
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah I agree.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:14
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Cojawfee posted:Unfortunately there's just no way to make the PSVR motion controllers be accurate. All you can track is that ball and you can't get any orientation from that. Even then, it can only get position based on the size of the ball from the camera's perspective. That's not very accurate. All there is for orientation is whatever IMUs it has. That's going to lead to drift. Sony really should have made new motion controllers. Using technology from several years ago is not a good idea. Still, when I tried London: The Heist for some reason it could actually track where I pointed the gun. And to be honest, everything worked perfectly fine. It's not perfect, but I think it's a great step forward in VR. The reason they went with old technology is (I think) that most people already own a pair (or at least one).
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Oct 5, 2016 20:24
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haveblue posted:They were trying to make him *not* sick, he found luging while sitting up uncomfortable and couldn't lie down in such a way that the camera could track him in its original position. Brad was doing it just fine sitting up and then the chat suggested that he try it laying down because that's the luge position. Brad laid down and the tracking went all wiggy so that he was looking at it sideways because the camera couldn't figure out what he was doing, so he tapped out. Then Dan wanted to try it and told Jeff to make it as horrible as possible, so they were intentionally loving with the camera at that point.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:28
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Flumbooze posted:Still, when I tried London: The Heist for some reason it could actually track where I pointed the gun. And to be honest, everything worked perfectly fine. It's not perfect, but I think it's a great step forward in VR. It gets orientation from the IMUs. This is really accurate and fast but it drifts. I think it was Dan in the GiantBomb stream that was playing some kind of funhouse game with guns. The one gun kept drifting to the left because there was nothing to correct IMU drift.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:30
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Flumbooze posted:Still, when I tried London: The Heist for some reason it could actually track where I pointed the gun. Generally with a gun, the desire is to look down the sights (or at least look where you're shooting), so they can just draw a line from the headset to the move controller to align the gun.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:31
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Cojawfee posted:It gets orientation from the IMUs. This is really accurate and fast but it drifts. I think it was Dan in the GiantBomb stream that was playing some kind of funhouse game with guns. The one gun kept drifting to the left because there was nothing to correct IMU drift. Ah, right. Can that be patched? sliderule posted:Generally with a gun, the desire is to look down the sights (or at least look where you're shooting), so they can just draw a line from the headset to the move controller to align the gun. Yeah but still, you can move the gun any way you want, even in the opposite direction, inspect it, see where the ammo goes, etc. It's not like the gun is always alligned...
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Oct 5, 2016 20:34
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Patch? No, this can only be fixed with a hardware revision that adds more tracking lights to the controllers.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:38
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Cojawfee posted:Patch? No, this can only be fixed with a hardware revision that adds more tracking lights to the controllers. Oh right. I thought maybe there was a way to reduce the input/strength of the drift but maybe not then. Althought, if they work as good as they did when I tested it, I'm more than happy.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:41
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Flumbooze posted:Yeah but still, you can move the gun any way you want, even in the opposite direction, inspect it, see where the ammo goes, etc. It's not like the gun is always alligned... Oh wow. Neat!
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Oct 5, 2016 20:50
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sliderule posted:Oh wow. Neat! Yeah it is! My guess is they lock the gun in a certain position, and the move controllers track the axis or something?
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Oct 5, 2016 20:53
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Everyone get your pitchforks. https://twitter.com/shawncwhiting/status/783754243962318849
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Oct 5, 2016 21:10
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Cojawfee posted:It gets orientation from the IMUs. This is really accurate and fast but it drifts. I think it was Dan in the GiantBomb stream that was playing some kind of funhouse game with guns. The one gun kept drifting to the left because there was nothing to correct IMU drift. Technically the Move does use a combination of accelerometer and magnetometer to correct gyroscope drift. This is enough to determine the 3 axes of rotation, but it's prone to interference and not particularly accurate.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:28
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Huh so I didn't quite twig that it's Oculus Connect for the next three days, and the keynote with expected Touch release date & price confirmation is tomorrow at 10am pacific.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:38
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Cojawfee posted:Everyone get your pitchforks. I can't get my pitchfork, I'm too busy getting my wallet~
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Oct 5, 2016 21:42
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With all the complaining we are gonna see about why isn't there just just Skyrim/Doom/etc in vr Sony should put on psn a tiny normal fps game called Vomit Combat and make you agree a million times when launching that you have been warned this will make you sick.
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Oct 5, 2016 23:26
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StarkRavingMad posted:Brad was doing it just fine sitting up and then the chat suggested that he try it laying down because that's the luge position. Brad laid down and the tracking went all wiggy so that he was looking at it sideways because the camera couldn't figure out what he was doing, so he tapped out. Then Dan wanted to try it and told Jeff to make it as horrible as possible, so they were intentionally loving with the camera at that point. 
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Oct 6, 2016 00:03
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I can't say I'm shocked by the PSVR troubles, though disappointed. I thought at least the headset would be flawlessly tracked in the cameras cone, but I always thought it was strange they were planning to use 6 year old tech that was meant to compete with wii waggle wands for the precise motion controllers. I know they want to reduce the price and let people reuse hardware but, c'mon its so limiting to start with that as a base. Also it still blows my mind the tracking camera isn't included with the headset, like, the controllers I can understand, but to sell a headset with no tracking is crazy and I think after the pre-sale hype market has died down, theres going to be a poo poo ton of idiots around Christmas complaining that this headset they bought for their kids gamestation 4 doesn't even work right. Edit: I actually feel more and more its really skeezy on sony's part. They sell VR for your playstation for "only 399.99!" but they don't even include tracking. You are basically required to buy a separate camera that judging by the amazon page at least they don't even make clear. It feels like some awful bait and switch thats going to sucker-punch some unsuspecting people that don't do a bunch of research on all this before hand, just so they can claim such a rock bottom price. Tom Guycot fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Oct 6, 2016 |
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Oct 6, 2016 00:05
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It seems really bad that PSVR relies on the game itself to set the position. That Job Simulator one seemed really bad. It just asks you to guess where you think the floor should be. How hard is it to just say "Place one controller on the ground, stand up straight and press the X button" or something? ^^^ That's really worrying. I think PSVR has the most potential to do the most damage to the VR market if it doesn't work right. It's probably going to be the most popular system and if it gets a bad reputation, VR will probably have even more struggle.
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Oct 6, 2016 00:06
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I was really hoping PSVR would be good, I wanted something easier to throw on than the Rift. Sucks that the controllers are so bad. I'd probably still get it if the price was closer to $200, but for $500 I'd rather just get a gearVR.
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Oct 6, 2016 00:39
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Tom Guycot posted:Also it still blows my mind the tracking camera isn't included with the headset, like, the controllers I can understand, but to sell a headset with no tracking is crazy and I think after the pre-sale hype market has died down, theres going to be a poo poo ton of idiots around Christmas complaining that this headset they bought for their kids gamestation 4 doesn't even work right. Heh 
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Oct 6, 2016 01:30
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Tom Guycot posted:I can't say I'm shocked by the PSVR troubles, though disappointed. I thought at least the headset would be flawlessly tracked in the cameras cone, but I always thought it was strange they were planning to use 6 year old tech that was meant to compete with wii waggle wands for the precise motion controllers. I know they want to reduce the price and let people reuse hardware but, c'mon its so limiting to start with that as a base.
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Oct 6, 2016 01:43
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I ate at Taco Bell a couple times the past couple weeks for codes to win a PSVR bundle and that's about what I'm willing to pay.
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Oct 6, 2016 01:54
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i hope you win
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Oct 6, 2016 02:20
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He ate Taco Bell multiple times, he's already lost.
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Oct 6, 2016 02:30
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Cojawfee posted:Everyone get your pitchforks. i am very angry on the internet about video games. the way they suddenly went totally radio silent had me wondering if they'd collapsed somehow, but this isn't really a surprise. i wonder if they'd started regretting the decision after the palmer luckey poo poo came out.
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Oct 6, 2016 02:52
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homeless snail posted:They sold an assload of cameras when the PS4 came out, there's probably more cameras out there than they are going to sell PSVRs, so they absolutely do have to sell a standalone headset for those people. By and large the full bundle is the one they're making widely available and pushing the hardest though. Its a bad job. Only 15% of PS4 owners have the camera, and even as someone who knows you need the camera, of 5 places online I checked right now to pre order it, only one specifically made a point to say "YOU NEED THE PS CAMERA" they even had a prominent link as well to order one. 3 of them made no mention, 1 other made a small mention in tiny text that you need one. All of them were advertising the base price model only. I couldn't even find a link for a package that included the camera at any of them but amazon. Even sony's official website doesn't mention it anywhere I can see and in fact has a section saying "Got a PS4? You're ready for PS VR. Just plug in and play. PS VR is powered by PlayStation 4, so you can simply connect the two and step into new experiences in seconds.". I understand a small percentage of ps owners already have the camera, but they're doing the exact opposite of what they should be doing. They should be blasting everywhere, at every retailer "PS VR, only $450.00! *move controllers not included", with a tiny link somewhere saying "already own a PS camera? purchase the 399.99 package here". They're trying to make everyone think its cheaper than it is, and you're going to get a lot of people buying after the rush of early adopters, this holiday season, wondering why its not working. Its a lovely way to launch something, and deceptive. Tom Guycot fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Oct 6, 2016 |
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Oct 6, 2016 03:20
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Are they even selling the cameraless set in stores? Pretty sure its online only, with the disclaimers you would want.
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Oct 6, 2016 03:23
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homeless snail posted:Are they even selling the cameraless set in stores? Pretty sure its online only, with the disclaimers you would want. Thats the thing though, only 2 of 6 (including sony's official website) even had such a disclaimer that I could see. I don't know how the retail will shake out, but of the 5 retailers I checked, only amazon even had a bundle listed. Every other one only has the base headset for sale. Even the one that bothered to tell you up front "you need the camera" with a link to buy one, was separate and not as some bundle. I'll be happy if when it come later this year, the only package in stores for the most part is some bundle. Right now though, its looking like literally the opposite of that, and sony just desperately wanted to advertise it as cheap as possible, even if that meant not including tracking with their HMD. It just feels really scuzzy.
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Oct 6, 2016 03:30
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BMan posted:Heh Did you make this, or pull it from Reddit? IANAL, but this PSVR camera thing sounds like a potential lawsuit waiting to happen. Even if they plastered "REQUIRES PLAYSTATION MOVE CAMERA SOLD SEPARATELY" everywhere on the store pages a ton of people would expect $399.99 to get them a fully functioning unit. Obscuring that fact is just nuts.
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Oct 6, 2016 03:42
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Yeah, I made that. By the way, to anybody who doesn't recognize that comic, I highly recommend you look up Johnny Turbo.
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Oct 6, 2016 04:28
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Sir Tonk posted:I was really hoping PSVR would be good, I wanted something easier to throw on than the Rift. Sucks that the controllers are so bad. Thing is, me (and many others) had no issues at all when trying the headset and move controllers. It's probably not as good as the Vice or Oculus touch, but for the masses that want to try VR it works really good.
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Oct 6, 2016 06:47
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Flumbooze posted:Thing is, me (and many others) had no issues at all when trying the headset and move controllers. It's probably not as good as the Vice or Oculus touch, but for the masses that want to try VR it works really good. That's not to say you're lying about your experience, it just seems there's something hosed about PSVR that is causing people to come away with it with wildly varying experiences now that its in people's hands. Whether some fraction of hardware is actually hosed, or maybe its environmental (seems unlikely), who knows
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Oct 6, 2016 06:59
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Both the vive and Oculus have very solid tracking. Admittedly the vive can be temperamental around reflective surfaces but 99% of the time things just work. This is necessary for VR to be useful. The move controllers don't work. They are broken by design and the apparent wobble people are experiencing is really concerning. I'm not gloating, I'm disappointed as while I've understood for a while that it was always going to be an inferior experience I had hoped they would at least get the core head tracking right. What a bummer.
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Oct 6, 2016 07:19
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I haven't had many problems with the Vive tracking and I was really surprised to see exactly how good it actually tracked after I got it set up. Comparatively the Wii or Move controllers just aren't holding up any longer.
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Oct 6, 2016 07:45
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Mordaedil posted:I haven't had many problems with the Vive tracking and I was really surprised to see exactly how good it actually tracked after I got it set up. The Wii controllers were never meant to actually track, they can only do relative motion, like did they sweep up or left or waggle it randomly to make Donkey Kong roll WHY THE gently caress WASNT THAT JUST A BUTTON
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Oct 6, 2016 08:27
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