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USPOL Nov: The vindication of Prester Jane by the narcissist Donald Trump
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Nov 1, 2016 08:14
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 14:42 |
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Nice. I know people started suggesting it for the Oct thread title, but having it be the Nov one is just so perfect.
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Nov 1, 2016 08:27
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Well deserved, too.
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Nov 1, 2016 11:17
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Colin Mockery posted:Nice. I know people started suggesting it for the Oct thread title, but having it be the Nov one is just so perfect. Assuming we win. I'm starting to actually worry the GOP has rallied around him no matter what.
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Nov 1, 2016 12:42
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I am a narrativist AMA
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Nov 3, 2016 18:07
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Wow, that's quite a rap sheet.
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Nov 4, 2016 12:22
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It is a pretty interesting film, main takeaway is that the war in the middle east is too complicated for a regular person to just jump into without knowing all the history and involvement from the US dating as far back as WW2 or further. Also modern media is meant to distract and cause schizophrenia and ADHD by never saying the same thing in a 24 hour news cycle, bombarding you with conflicting reports of doom and gloom. One way of getting away from that is to hide in an online world, which is also by design. Best part IMO was showing communist Russia right at the fall, the common person in Russia had to pretend everything was going well and things weren't going to the shitter. If the politicians are saying everything's OKAY then it must be OKAY (or else we might get killed for saying otherwise)
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Nov 4, 2016 14:27
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Now that the thread is over can we return to the initial unanswered objections that made it pointless to engage on in the first place? Namely, that this whole project is a monument to the glib stupidity of liberal hacks? From the illustrious pages of Reason.com blogs comes Pathologizing Your Political Enemies for Dummies!, a neurotic assembly of jargon carefully curated and presented as a cogent response to such pressing and timely issues as "(between sobs) Why do they hate us?". I'm reading through the pages and this all just goes so far past the point of irony I almost don't even know where to begin. It's like hearing a phrenologist discuss rap music: you're bound to find out a lot about the phrenologist, at least. That fact that every single page comes complete with some masturbatory celebration of "rationality" makes this style of critique every bit as sober and insightful as Idiocracy or basically any TED Talk. I mean obviously far be it from me to disparage the clear and ironclad scientific truth furnished by the miracle of fMRI studies but boy its a hell of a thing to see the words "Altemeyer is a real scientist" written without the benefit of a sly grin or knowing look.
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Nov 4, 2016 15:12
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spotlessd posted:Now that the thread is over can we return to the initial unanswered objections that made it pointless to engage on in the first place? Namely, that this whole project is a monument to the glib stupidity of liberal hacks? From the illustrious pages of Reason.com blogs comes Pathologizing Your Political Enemies for Dummies!, a neurotic assembly of jargon carefully curated and presented as a cogent response to such pressing and timely issues as "(between sobs) Why do they hate us?". I'm reading through the pages and this all just goes so far past the point of irony I almost don't even know where to begin. It's like hearing a phrenologist discuss rap music: you're bound to find out a lot about the phrenologist, at least. That fact that every single page comes complete with some masturbatory celebration of "rationality" makes this style of critique every bit as sober and insightful as Idiocracy or basically any TED Talk. You take things a bit too seriously, you should probably relax.
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Nov 4, 2016 16:26
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spotlessd posted:Now that the thread is over can we return to the initial unanswered objections that made it pointless to engage on in the first place? Namely, that this whole project is a monument to the glib stupidity of liberal hacks? From the illustrious pages of Reason.com blogs comes Pathologizing Your Political Enemies for Dummies!, a neurotic assembly of jargon carefully curated and presented as a cogent response to such pressing and timely issues as "(between sobs) Why do they hate us?". I'm reading through the pages and this all just goes so far past the point of irony I almost don't even know where to begin. It's like hearing a phrenologist discuss rap music: you're bound to find out a lot about the phrenologist, at least. That fact that every single page comes complete with some masturbatory celebration of "rationality" makes this style of critique every bit as sober and insightful as Idiocracy or basically any TED Talk. lol
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Nov 4, 2016 17:18
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spotlessd posted:Now that the thread is over can we return to the initial unanswered objections that made it pointless to engage on in the first place? Namely, that this whole project is a monument to the glib stupidity of liberal hacks? From the illustrious pages of Reason.com blogs comes Pathologizing Your Political Enemies for Dummies!, a neurotic assembly of jargon carefully curated and presented as a cogent response to such pressing and timely issues as "(between sobs) Why do they hate us?". I'm reading through the pages and this all just goes so far past the point of irony I almost don't even know where to begin. It's like hearing a phrenologist discuss rap music: you're bound to find out a lot about the phrenologist, at least. That fact that every single page comes complete with some masturbatory celebration of "rationality" makes this style of critique every bit as sober and insightful as Idiocracy or basically any TED Talk. Your words intrigue me, do you have a blog or newsletter that I can subscribe to?
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Nov 4, 2016 17:37
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NatasDog posted:Your words intrigue me, do you have a blog or newsletter that I can subscribe to? I am pretty sure he has columns in Meninist Monthly, Alt-Right Annual and The Fedora Quarterly
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Nov 4, 2016 17:46
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spotlessd posted:Now that the thread is over can we return to the initial unanswered objections that made it pointless to engage on in the first place? Namely, that this whole project is a monument to the glib stupidity of liberal hacks? From the illustrious pages of Reason.com blogs comes Pathologizing Your Political Enemies for Dummies!, a neurotic assembly of jargon carefully curated and presented as a cogent response to such pressing and timely issues as "(between sobs) Why do they hate us?". I'm reading through the pages and this all just goes so far past the point of irony I almost don't even know where to begin. It's like hearing a phrenologist discuss rap music: you're bound to find out a lot about the phrenologist, at least. That fact that every single page comes complete with some masturbatory celebration of "rationality" makes this style of critique every bit as sober and insightful as Idiocracy or basically any TED Talk. Nah, this is pretty specifically about the crazies, not the moderate conservatives. The issue is that from the Reagan years onward, or arguably even from LBJ embracing Civil Rights, the mainstream GOP has been humoring the apocalyptic types to get their votes, except that the doomsday cultists have hit critical mass to start directly influencing policy, and Item One on their agenda has been purging the moderates in favor of more radicals. Now we have the Trump campaign and the Alt-Right. I mean this is the exact loving thing that happened in Weimar Republic Germany, where the traditional elites were so sure that they could use this Hitler lout as a blunt instrument to put the rabble-rousers and intellectuals in their place and then discard him once it was done, until SURPRISE! You're a fascist regime now!
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Nov 4, 2016 17:49
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Thesaurasaurus posted:Nah, this is pretty specifically about the crazies, not the moderate conservatives. The issue is that from the Reagan years onward, or arguably even from LBJ embracing Civil Rights, the mainstream GOP has been humoring the apocalyptic types to get their votes, except that the doomsday cultists have hit critical mass to start directly influencing policy, and Item One on their agenda has been purging the moderates in favor of more radicals. Now we have the Trump campaign and the Alt-Right. I mean this is the exact loving thing that happened in Weimar Republic Germany, where the traditional elites were so sure that they could use this Hitler lout as a blunt instrument to put the rabble-rousers and intellectuals in their place and then discard him once it was done, until SURPRISE! You're a fascist regime now! Most analysis dates the current state of the Republicans back to Barry Goldwater, who mobilized a lot of people to support a politician that was publicly endorsed by the KKK and tried his hardest to prevent equal rights for blacks. That was the start of the Republicans realizing that they could pander to that kind of person, and it just escalated until they accidentally built up a base of crazy anti-government racists. Trump's nomination is a sign of the base being so huge that the GOP elite has totally lost control of the monster they created, which is why it's likely we'll see a party split or a new party.
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Nov 4, 2016 18:25
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Also everything PJ predicted was correct so again lol.
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Nov 4, 2016 18:30
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Thesaurasaurus posted:Nah, this is pretty specifically about the crazies, not the moderate conservatives. The issue is that from the Reagan years onward, or arguably even from LBJ embracing Civil Rights, the mainstream GOP has been humoring the apocalyptic types to get their votes, except that the doomsday cultists have hit critical mass to start directly influencing policy, and Item One on their agenda has been purging the moderates in favor of more radicals. Now we have the Trump campaign and the Alt-Right. I mean this is the exact loving thing that happened in Weimar Republic Germany, where the traditional elites were so sure that they could use this Hitler lout as a blunt instrument to put the rabble-rousers and intellectuals in their place and then discard him once it was done, until SURPRISE! You're a fascist regime now! Waitaminute, let me get this straight: from the Reagan years onward Republican voters have found a way to affect a major change in the character of their party and in doing so produce an ever-more radical platform which has driven the party to ever-farther extremes? "Wow, what a bunch of fuckin' crazies!" - Democrats What does this have to do with anything? This weird fake apparatus of non-sense woven around a notion of "authoritarian" that is utterly devoid of political content is like 90% drivel and 10% pop psychology with no explanatory power whatsoever. It's hardly been limited to Evangelicals or whoever else, even within this thread. This isn't a new game. In fact the two most recent public examples I can think of (outside of the 2004 comeback tour What's the Matter With Kansas) that trade in this sort of pathologizing horseshit are Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning, both of whom were presumed to be incapable of acting politically at all, having obviously been "crippled by mental illness" as evidenced by their political activity. And anyway the obvious thing to say about Nazis if we're just determined to go there (I read The True Believer in college, too) is that precisely the value of the "authoritarian" conceptual framework as it was seen in the 1950s was that it obscured the similarities between freedom-loving Americans and the defective German public with which they were otherwise almost completely identical. Which seems like as good of note as any to point out that the political right loves to play this game as much as you guys do. It wasn't that long ago that this very board was discussing the most humane way to euthanize the American Rust Belt and ever since Brexit the poltiical left has just barely been able to conceal its blistering contempt for democracy so I'm not sure I'd take this particular highroad. This whole thing reminds me of that classic piece of libertarian propaganda: the four point political compass. It's a miracle! No matter who takes our personality test they all turn out to be libertarians!
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Nov 4, 2016 22:01
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spotlessd posted:Waitaminute, let me get this straight: from the Reagan years onward Republican voters have found a way to affect a major change in the character of their party and in doing so produce an ever-more radical platform which has driven the party to ever-farther extremes? "Wow, what a bunch of fuckin' crazies!" - Democrats So you see absolutely nothing strange or wrong with the nomination of Donald and nothing radically different about this election than past elections?
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Nov 4, 2016 22:17
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Nov 4, 2016 22:19
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Dirk the Average posted:So you see absolutely nothing strange or wrong with the nomination of Donald and nothing radically different about this election than past elections? We're just glib liberal hacks.
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Nov 4, 2016 22:23
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No don't you see conservatives think liberals are the crazy ones too, so they're all actually the same! Or something, you the hell knows. Also lol that link pops up a book by loving Michael Savage jfc
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Nov 4, 2016 22:23
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Dirk the Average posted:So you see absolutely nothing strange or wrong with the nomination of Donald and nothing radically different about this election than past elections? Of course it's "weird", but you don't need this insanely overwrought conceptual framework rooted in a really questionable theory of political personalities to understand it. And besides which I don't think a group of people who have spent the past few months insinuating that Trump is some kind of Russian sleeper agent have really earned to the right to lecture people on the perils of paranoid thinking.
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Nov 4, 2016 22:28
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spotlessd posted:Of course it's "weird", but you don't need this insanely overwrought conceptual framework rooted in a really questionable theory of political personalities to understand it. And besides which I don't think a group of people who have spent the past few months insinuating that Trump is some kind of Russian sleeper agent have really earned to the right to lecture people on the perils of paranoid thinking. So do you have a rebuttal to the framework itself?
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Nov 4, 2016 22:35
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spotlessd posted:Of course it's "weird", but you don't need this insanely overwrought conceptual framework rooted in a really questionable theory of political personalities to understand it. And besides which I don't think a group of people who have spent the past few months insinuating that Trump is some kind of Russian sleeper agent have really earned to the right to lecture people on the perils of paranoid thinking. lol, and you're saying the people in this thread are the crazy ones. P.S. The foundation of this thread is the genuine experiences of the OP, who used the personality theory as short-hand and quickly dropped it once it became apparent that what PJ was describing was different from what Authoritarians were described as.
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Nov 4, 2016 22:35
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chitoryu12 posted:So do you have a rebuttal to the framework itself? That it's a bunch of made up mega-bullshit?
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Nov 4, 2016 22:40
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spotlessd posted:Of course it's "weird", but you don't need this insanely overwrought conceptual framework rooted in a really questionable theory of political personalities to understand it. And besides which I don't think a group of people who have spent the past few months insinuating that Trump is some kind of Russian sleeper agent have really earned to the right to lecture people on the perils of paranoid thinking. Okay, I'll bite. Quote one post from this thread where the poster is seriously insinuating that (besides possibly fishmech, who most of us have on ignore for a reason). e: Wolfsbane posted:Why is everyone engaging the obviously crazy guy? Sometimes it's best to ignore them, sometimes it's best to give them all the rope they need. Hello Sailor fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Nov 4, 2016 |
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Nov 4, 2016 22:41
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Why is everyone engaging the obviously crazy guy?
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Nov 4, 2016 22:45
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Wolfsbane posted:Why is everyone engaging the obviously crazy guy? lmao welp this didn't take long
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Nov 4, 2016 22:46
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I'm genuinely interested in reading criticisms of the thread, so if you could stop posting zingers for a sec and point out how some things are wrong and why, I would greatly appreciate it.
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Nov 4, 2016 22:51
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spotlessd posted:lmao welp this didn't take long You should probably calm down, maybe drink some water.
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Nov 4, 2016 23:07
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Hello Sailor posted:Okay, I'll bite. Quote one post from this thread where the poster is seriously insinuating that (besides possibly fishmech, who most of us have on ignore for a reason). That reason being that there's a crew of weirdos who hate discussing the racist authoritarian bent of the Republicans, despite being in a thread about racist authoritarians. Which is super weird for anyone with half a brain to do.
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Nov 4, 2016 23:10
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spotlessd posted:That it's a bunch of made up mega-bullshit? Brilliant. And what's your source for this?
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Nov 4, 2016 23:14
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I think I've mentioned earlier that I've seen comparable trends among the most radical Bernie supporters I follow on Facebook. This isn't a right wing behavior trait, it's just that only the right seems to embrace and coddle it.
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Nov 4, 2016 23:16
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spotlessd posted:That it's a bunch of made up mega-bullshit? Still doesn't explain how Jane's been right most, if not all of the time. Besides, if anything a non-racist, tolerant right-winger should be doubly concerned about where the Republican party's heading with its exclusionary culture and policies.
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Nov 4, 2016 23:28
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:This isn't a right wing behavior trait, it's just that only the right seems to embrace and coddle it. In America at least. In Venezuela the ruling chavista party shows a lot of narrativist traits, like compaction, and explaining their failures by attributing increasingly malevolent powers to their enemies. For instance the country has starving mobs raiding grocery stores, but the government refuses to allow foreign aid, claiming the aid is actually a CIA plot to overthrow the people's revolution.
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Nov 4, 2016 23:42
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CommissarMega posted:Besides, if anything a non-racist, tolerant right-winger should be doubly concerned about where the Republican party's heading with its exclusionary culture and policies. There's no such thing as a non-racist, tolerant right-winger, so I don't think the Republicans need to worry about their opinions.
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Nov 4, 2016 23:43
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Pavlov posted:In America at least. In Venezuela the ruling chavista party shows a lot of narrativist traits, like compaction, and explaining their failures by attributing increasingly malevolent powers to their enemies. For instance the country has starving mobs raiding grocery stores, but the government refuses to allow foreign aid, claiming the aid is actually a CIA plot to overthrow the people's revolution. If you're a Central or South American socialist I think you can be forgiven for thinking that the US is actively attempting to overthrow your government somehow 
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Nov 5, 2016 00:27
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spotlessd posted:That it's a bunch of made up mega-bullshit? Have you ever considered arguing your point instead of just asserting it over and over? You can call something "made up mega-bullshit" all day long but it's not very convincing without arguments and evidence to back it up. I don't even necessarily believe that all of PJ's theories are correct, even if they are giving quite accurate predictions but I fail to see the point in shouting "Bullshit!" when I have no evidence to prove any of what PJ has said wrong. If you do have something of substance you should come forward with it.
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Nov 5, 2016 00:42
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Wolfsbane posted:Why is everyone engaging the obviously crazy guy? Obviously no one is going to convince him, but I think everyone realises that. It's more for those that may be lurking, and have doubts, and see the exchange. One person comes in windmilling around shouting rah rah rah this is all bullshit! The rest of us are for the most part being civil and conceding that if he maybe has a point can he please make it so that it can be discussed. If you're on the sidelines watching, genuinely trying to figure out what to think about all this, who is going to come across as the more reasonable? So, lurkers: AVeryLargeRadish posted:...If you do have something of substance you should come forward with it. watch this continue to not happen.
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Nov 5, 2016 01:27
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RabidWeasel posted:If you're a Central or South American socialist I think you can be forgiven for thinking that the US is actively attempting to overthrow your government somehow True, but the level they go to is above and beyond what's reasonable. There's a Venezuela thread if you're interested.
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Nov 5, 2016 03:44
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 14:42 |
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Compaction cycles seem to explain the Taliban very well. It's more specific to cult behaviour than general authoritarianism, although they share traits.
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Nov 5, 2016 04:41
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