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Random rear end in a top hat posted:I think the main benefit will be making Lore checks during events and conversations. If everyone NEEDS lore, why even have it as an upgradeable thing?
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Nov 7, 2016 05:43
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Drifter posted:If everyone NEEDS lore, why even have it as an upgradeable thing? You don't? Lore, subterfuge and athletics all offer different interactions.
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Nov 7, 2016 06:00
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Ratios and Tendency posted:You don't? Lore, subterfuge and athletics all offer different interactions. Nice 
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Nov 7, 2016 06:08
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Drifter posted:I don't understand people dissing PoE about being too confusing or fast-paced combat-wise because you can set the autopausing to become essentially turnbased. Like, Obsidian did a fantastic job with the rtwp/turnbased mechanic. Auto pausing is nice and all but the incoming information is very overwhelming. You can set it up to auto pause like crazy but you still have to deal with the combat log and press space bar a Zillion times if you go that route. It's not very turn like in the end.
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Nov 7, 2016 06:30
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Drifter posted:Nice Yeah, the stream showed Lore, Subterfuge, Athletics and a whole bunch of other skills used regularly in conversations.
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Nov 7, 2016 06:36
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CommissarMega posted:Yeah, the stream showed Lore, Subterfuge, Athletics and a whole bunch of other skills used regularly in conversations. I really hope they're hitting that Fallout New Vegas threshold of excellence this time. It was just amazing how much that game accommodated for you if you went outside of the standard persuasion/lockpicking/guns archetype. PoE was kinda disappointing in this regard.
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Nov 7, 2016 08:11
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Rascyc posted:Be that as it may rope kid already said they are probably gonna slow the combat down for poe2. I can't remember the exact post but it was like half speed would be the new standard speed or something. As someone whose first infinity style game was PoE, i started on medium and after 30 minutes turned off auto pause and always had fast speed on. Never once looked at the combat log. It's a pretty intuitive debuff->kill mages and let Eder facetank 12 dudes while you poo poo lightning and arrows affair
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Nov 7, 2016 08:59
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Jabor posted:In general I think a lot of people who have issues with difficulty in RPGs fall into the trap of "I won't use this powerful consumable item on this fight, because what if I really need it later on?". Yea this is very much me. I don't like having to cast spells in every single fight. To me they're for big enemies, not for random normal ones. This meant all my PoE fights took forever and it got tedious as hell. But I can't help but feel I've wasted stuff if I'm using it on anything else.
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Nov 7, 2016 09:58
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Beyond a few basic things like healing or mana potions, I tend think consumables in RGPs are often a terrible idea and PoE is a good example of why. You end up having to balance encounters around people using them, and it adds another level of hassle to a system that is already creaking under the weight of myriad complexities. I don't see what you lose by stripping all that out, other than pointless busywork.
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Nov 7, 2016 10:27
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Wizard Styles posted:GOG Galaxy may officially still be in beta, and will likely remain in beta for eternity, but it's fully functional by now and I've had less problems with it than Steam. Really? Galaxy keeps logging me out and that bothers me to no end because then I have to log on LastPass, search for my GOG.com credential, then log on my PC. At least it doesn't give a crap whether or not you're connected (games being DRM-less) but still annoying. Nasgate posted:As someone whose first infinity style game was PoE, i started on medium and after 30 minutes turned off auto pause and always had fast speed on. Never once looked at the combat log. It's a pretty intuitive debuff->kill mages and let Eder facetank 12 dudes while you poo poo lightning and arrows affair Yeah that's all fine and good on medium difficulty but you can't very well do that on Hard or Path of the Damned (but if that's how you have fun, good for you). Which is how it was designed, as I understand, so it's all good. Skippy McPants posted:Beyond a few basic things like healing or mana potions, I tend think consumables in RGPs are often a terrible idea and PoE is a good example of why. You end up having to balance encounters around people using them, and it adds another level of hassle to a system that is already creaking under the weight of myriad complexities. I don't see what you lose by stripping all that out, other than pointless busywork. If anything, PoE encounters were balanced around the idea that people don't have consumables. Except maybe for a couple of Dragons, there's not one fight in the game that you can't beat without consumables even on the hardest difficulty.
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Nov 7, 2016 10:29
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Buffs as a whole really. Some games give you just a few and make them super powerful (looking at you Shadowrun) and then it's actually an interesting choice to decide who to apply them to. But in most games it's more like Skyrim where nearly all of the time those loving potions are never getting used.
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Nov 7, 2016 10:31
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Skippy McPants posted:Beyond a few basic things like healing or mana potions, I tend think consumables in RGPs are often a terrible idea and PoE is a good example of why. You end up having to balance encounters around people using them, and it adds another level of hassle to a system that is already creaking under the weight of myriad complexities. I don't see what you lose by stripping all that out, other than pointless busywork. I kinda like the way DA:I did it. Looting/crafting/etc doesn't give you 'an' item, it gives you 'a supply' of that item. Equip it in one of your slots and it's now functionally an extra power with it's own cooldown. The game doesn't fiddle about with tracking precisely how many spider-grenades you have any more than it forces you to count your arrows - you have 'enough' and it's assumed that you are replacing them offscreen.
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Nov 7, 2016 10:48
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Furism posted:If anything, PoE encounters were balanced around the idea that people don't have consumables. Except maybe for a couple of Dragons, there's not one fight in the game that you can't beat without consumables even on the hardest difficulty. Fair enough, imperfect example, but I felt like on PotD there was this constant balancing act between the hassle of using consumables and the tedium of fights taking longer because you didn't. MiddleOne posted:Buffs as a whole really. Some games give you just a few and make them super powerful (looking at you Shadowrun) and then it's actually an interesting choice to decide who to apply them to. But in most games it's more like Skyrim where nearly all of the time those loving potions are never getting used. But yes, this, mostly. I'm trying to think of a game that did consumables well and I'm sort of drawing a blank. They're almost always more trouble than they're worth. Edit: Yeah, the DA:I system is a lot closer to something decent. Treating potions as an extra set of abilities that you can swap out between missions, and that never really "run out" except in the short term is probably the best way to handle it.
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Nov 7, 2016 10:51
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The Lone Badger posted:I kinda like the way DA:I did it. Looting/crafting/etc doesn't give you 'an' item, it gives you 'a supply' of that item. Equip it in one of your slots and it's now functionally an extra power with it's own cooldown. The game doesn't fiddle about with tracking precisely how many spider-grenades you have any more than it forces you to count your arrows - you have 'enough' and it's assumed that you are replacing them offscreen. I liked this and I also liked Witcher 3's handling of the issue where you each potion has a certain number of charges that refills when you rest. I don't know anyone who likes actual consumable items in games and I wonder why they still make games like that.
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Nov 7, 2016 10:56
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Well, in the case of PoE they had the legacy issue hanging over them. I think a lot of modern RPGs have learned their lesson for the most part.
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Nov 7, 2016 11:00
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Even in PoE they had items like the effigies that replenished on rest. Those were the only things I used.
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Nov 7, 2016 11:02
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MiddleOne posted:Buffs as a whole really. Some games give you just a few and make them super powerful (looking at you Shadowrun) and then it's actually an interesting choice to decide who to apply them to. But in most games it's more like Skyrim where nearly all of the time those loving potions are never getting used. I barely ever cast my priest spells in PoE because you had to do it every fight and it got tedious. I know people don't like pre-buffing but at least the spells in the Infinity Engine games would last for five, six, seven fights.
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Nov 7, 2016 11:13
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Yeah, I just kind of hate consumables at this point. Having items as recharging powers and balancing combat around that is such a better solution then balancing every encounter to a) be beatable without consumables and b) not be too easy with them. Also, probably not coincidentally, not a big fan of the Priest class and it's spell selection; Every fight hard enough that Priest spells might be worth the time to cast is a fight where the Priest can and will get oneshot by a breath attack or dominated or something. VV: Or your willingness to use Cheat Engine Random Asshole fucked around with this message at 11:35 on Nov 7, 2016 |
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Nov 7, 2016 11:25
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The Lone Badger posted:I kinda like the way DA:I did it. Looting/crafting/etc doesn't give you 'an' item, it gives you 'a supply' of that item. Equip it in one of your slots and it's now functionally an extra power with it's own cooldown. The game doesn't fiddle about with tracking precisely how many spider-grenades you have any more than it forces you to count your arrows - you have 'enough' and it's assumed that you are replacing them offscreen. DA:I doesn't do that with anything except standard potions. Poisons, grenades, bottles full of bees all have a limited supply that you crafted more of. Granted, since crafting resources respawn when you load an area, your supply is only really limited by how much busywork you can stomach doing
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Nov 7, 2016 11:28
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Ojetor posted:I liked this and I also liked Witcher 3's handling of the issue where you each potion has a certain number of charges that refills when you rest. I don't know anyone who likes actual consumable items in games and I wonder why they still make games like that. vancian potions
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Nov 7, 2016 14:33
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Transmetropolitan posted:Mechanically, how was Pillars of Eternity? I ended up not buying it because I felt it a bit "meh" in terms of setting, but I am curious how tight they made the gameplay. Some people complained about it in this thread, but I am curious to see how different or if at all Tyranny will be. Did you ever play Baldur's Gate II? It is literally the same style of combat, implemented on a modern engine.
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Nov 7, 2016 15:05
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Jinnigan posted:Did you ever play Baldur's Gate II? It is literally the same style of combat, implemented on a modern engine. There's a whole world of difference between the PoE combat and Baldurs Gate. Baldurs Gate is a lot simplier.
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Nov 7, 2016 15:18
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Yeah, aside from the magic system, BG is mostly a matter of equipping whatever item has the biggest numbers and then hitting things with it. The character creation and leveling up is likewise pretty simple compared to PoE.
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Nov 7, 2016 15:50
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oh poo poo a bunch of new posts in the Tyranny thread that must either some news about the game or rpg nerd revisionism
Basic Chunnel fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Nov 7, 2016 |
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Nov 7, 2016 15:53
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like you could justSkippy McPants posted:Yeah, aside from the magic system, BG is mostly a matter of equipping whatever item has the biggest numbers and then hitting things with it. The character creation and leveling up is likewise pretty simple compared to PoE.
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Nov 7, 2016 15:54
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drat I'm playing PoE and this is hard *choosing between 15-19 dmg fine sabre and 9-13 dmg fine stiletto* ah poo poo now I'm playing BG, what a breath of fresh air *chooses 1d10 sword over 2d4 sword* The hidden joke is that only jocks use swords and the real solution to every problem is to cast skull trap at everything Basic Chunnel fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Nov 7, 2016 |
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Nov 7, 2016 15:59
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Bad opinions RE: BG itt.
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Nov 7, 2016 16:00
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Basic Chunnel posted:drat I'm playing PoE and this is hard *choosing between 15-19 dmg fine sabre and 9-13 dmg fine stiletto* The difference is resistances and things of that nature. It's a lot easier to parse, for me, that it's a 2d4+2 sword than a host of different effects. Armour too, it was easier for me to get my head around the AC number than it is to look at various resists to various types of damage. I'm lazy but also for me combat's just a stepping stone to more story. If I have to consider the loot beyond just "this is definitely better" then I just give up.
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Nov 7, 2016 16:05
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Taear posted:The difference is resistances and things of that nature. It's a lot easier to parse, for me, that it's a 2d4+2 sword than a host of different effects. I, too, remember the glorious and easy days of THAC0. Why did we move away from such a simple and intuitive system?
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Nov 7, 2016 16:07
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Just watch rope kid's presentation at GDC and you'll realize D&D 2.0 wasn't very well designed.
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Nov 7, 2016 16:11
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Taear posted:Armour too, it was easier for me to get my head around the AC number than it is to look at various resists to various types of damage.
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Nov 7, 2016 16:11
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I think it had more to do with having more patience to learn intrincate systems as kids than as adults. I am often a critic of PoE, but it streamlined a lot of the experience of the original infinity games, even if the number of options at any given point may appear to be overwhelming to the untrained eye.
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Nov 7, 2016 16:11
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Idk if anyone has ever watched an LP or watched a friend play the game really truly badly. If you ever do the problem isn't necessarily consumables, it's literally pushing any of their buttons at all. Hopefully going down to 4 members alleviates some decision paralysis on when to push buttons.
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Nov 7, 2016 17:37
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Furism posted:Really? Galaxy keeps logging me out and that bothers me to no end because then I have to log on LastPass, search for my GOG.com credential, then log on my PC. At least it doesn't give a crap whether or not you're connected (games being DRM-less) but still annoying. Galaxy even made it through the Win 8.1 -> 10 transition without incident, which I didn't expect. Basic Chunnel posted:If you got to the point of even calculating AC you were playing BG wrong. A well-made wizard abrogates the need and besides, the effectiveness of jock fighters is in how much damage they can take, not how much damage they can avoid. AC's a trap minigame for bad players AC is almost meaningless in ToB, though. But it's not like there's much of a trade-off involved in getting low AC. There's no attack rate penalty that comes with armor like in PoE, so you just wear the best you can. Often, the armor with the best AC also gives the best secondary bonuses, too.
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Nov 7, 2016 20:17
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Wizard Styles posted:But it's not like there's much of a trade-off involved in getting low AC. There's no attack rate penalty that comes with armor like in PoE, so you just wear the best you can. Often, the armor with the best AC also gives the best secondary bonuses, too. This is exactly what I mean. I don't give a poo poo about being the most efficent and casting stoneskin and playing with one character or anything like that. All I want to do is find things and know straight away "This is better than what I currently have on" at a single glance. Thac0 was weird but it wasn't complex.
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Nov 7, 2016 20:26
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ZearothK posted:I think it had more to do with having more patience to learn intrincate systems as kids than as adults. I am often a critic of PoE, but it streamlined a lot of the experience of the original infinity games, even if the number of options at any given point may appear to be overwhelming to the untrained eye. I tried to make this point about a month ago. As a kid you have the time and patience to learn complex rules and had the same patience to pre-buff before every battle. Not as an adult. Today I don't bother at all with buff spells or consumables and only play on normal difficulty to not have to worry about it unless the higher difficulties add more to the game. A higher difficulty in ME2 made the abilities and combos more fun (which were simple) without turning the enemies into bullet sponges. Fallout 4 is the same way, since it increased the drop rate of legendary items and PsychoJet is fun in that game. In PoE it was why bother, play at Normal to not deal with the tedium. Let the NPC's cast whatever and focus on my main's spells.
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Nov 7, 2016 20:30
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The real question is "why would you bother to play a tactical combat style game in that manner?"
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Nov 7, 2016 20:46
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Careful now, don't let any spergs catch you calling a RTwP game "tactical"
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Nov 7, 2016 20:49
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Taear posted:Thac0 was weird but it wasn't complex.
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Nov 7, 2016 20:54
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Taear posted:I barely ever cast my priest spells in PoE because you had to do it every fight and it got tedious. I know people don't like pre-buffing but at least the spells in the Infinity Engine games would last for five, six, seven fights. One of my favourite features from the IE games was the ability to install third-party custom AI scripts. Some of them were impressive feats of coding that could legitimately play the game for you, and it was fascinating to watch, but even if you didn't go that far one of the best feature was the ability to bind hotkeys to "cast all long-lasting buffs" and "cast all short-term buffs", which made BG2 and ToB far more bearable. NWN1/2's AI mods in my experience weren't nearly as good (you still had access to the Lua language, but perhaps the API was harder to code for, or more likely the games weren't quite as popular), but thankfully there was still a mod that gave you a "rod of CAST_ALL_BUFFS" to cast all those +2/+4 stat boosters with one click.
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Nov 7, 2016 21:11
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