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my interpretation of all this is that each of the current demiurge's keys have... "consumed" the other 777,770 keys to grow in power, which is also why each one of them has access to 111,111 worlds when the keys previously were only one each the current 7 can release some of this power again to recreate one of the lesser keys, which they do to give to an emissary of theirs cio/yabal just sidestepped that and stole some of that power, giving her access to a universe and hypothetical power on par with the other 7, except without any of the control or support the others had she just got crushed
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Nov 26, 2016 20:32
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Cio nicked a fragment of Mammon's power, hence her previous exposition about how lesser Keys are only bequeathed by the Demiurges to their minions - she basically stole a bit of Mammon's shine without permission, which enhanced her already considerable power. Mammon's response was to bide his time until Cio's hubris overtook her, and then make it raaaaain on all of her allies to look the other way as the Angels struck her down. That's why she's nailed down in the Heretics' court while all of Mammon's bankers are having an audience with the council, they'd come to take back what was theirs in exchange for all that coin. No one survives stealing from the fortress of Yre, and sure enough, Cio's theft was her undoing. It just took a little longer than usual. Operant's made a point of saying that Mammon is the weakest of the Demiurges but still formidable in his own right, and this anecdote seems to bear it out. He lacks skill with the Art, martial or otherwise, but makes up for it by weighing around 500 tons. He's a recluse with little direct influence throughout the Wheel, but his web of finance ensnares the whole of civilization.
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Nov 26, 2016 20:52
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Tenebrais posted:My reading is that Yabalchaoth stole Mammon's entire key, but the key of creation is only a fraction of Mammon's power - the keys are prizes for the powerful, they don't themselves make demiurges. Except that they do. The keys bring people to around the level of the original demiurges that traveled to throne without the aid of keys.
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Nov 26, 2016 20:56
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Tenebrais posted:My reading is that Yabalchaoth stole Mammon's entire key, but the key of creation is only a fraction of Mammon's power - the keys are prizes for the powerful, they don't themselves make demiurges. I mean, Mammon bought his key, so obviously his wealth was more valuable, and thus more powerful, than the key. And I seriously doubt his investments have lost money since gaining mastery over a hundred thousand odd worlds.
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Nov 26, 2016 20:58
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I do wonder if we're supposed to take his ascension as him buying his key near the end of the war, or if he bought his key at the beginning of the war and used his other resources to take an ever increasing chunk of the cosmos. I'm assuming the latter.
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Nov 26, 2016 21:24
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Theory: Mammon had a huge amount of wealth accumulated, enough to hide away demiurges who were clearly losing their wars in very expensive seclusion. Demiruges traded their keys away for safety when they got dunked on. Mammon basically leveraged an early financial advantage to buy keys from loser demiurges.
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Nov 26, 2016 21:29
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GunnerJ posted:Theory: Mammon had a huge amount of wealth accumulated, enough to hide away demiurges who were clearly losing their wars in very expensive seclusion. Demiruges traded their keys away for safety when they got dunked on. Mammon basically leveraged an early financial advantage to buy keys from loser demiurges. This honestly seems most likely to me. You have to imagine at least a few demiurges saw the writing on the wall and decided to cash out while they could. Once Mammon built up a power base in that way, it's easy to imagine how his empire snowballed.
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Nov 26, 2016 21:33
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hey girl you up posted:I mean, Mammon bought his key, so obviously his wealth was more valuable, and thus more powerful, than the key. He didn't necessarily buy the key in its current state, is the thing; buying one of the 777,777 keys is a lot different than buying one of the 7 keys. The way I figure it went down, he bought his key back when there were a lot of them, survived the war through alliances/schemes/financing other major players/being a loving dragon, made it to the end, and was part of the Pact of the Seven-Part World, bringing him up to (roughly) everyone else's level, rather than him buying into dominion over a seventh of the multiverse outright.
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Nov 26, 2016 22:50
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To post this in the thread I actually meant to post it in:Abaddon posted:I’m hoping to finish book 3 (the current book) by the end of 2017, then we have probably book 4 which deals with solomon and white chain, then book 5 (Breaker of Infinities) which kind of wraps things up. I’d say we’re comfortably in act 2 at this point, maybe about 30-40% done with the whole thing. Act 3 will probably start at the end of book 4. I have a very clear picture of how this whole thing ends and where it’s going and I’m fully committed to finishing it.
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Nov 26, 2016 23:35
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Cio is still somewhat purple and chitinous after her transformation.
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Nov 26, 2016 23:39
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Say Nothing posted:Cio is still somewhat purple and chitinous after her transformation. Huh. Apparently she's been purple and chitinous apart from her face this entire time (source, or any other page she's ever appeared on now that I'm actually looking) and I literally just never noticed. Iny fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Nov 27, 2016 |
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Nov 27, 2016 00:35
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Again I apologise; I am a monster. 
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Nov 27, 2016 02:07
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If you look at her hands it shows up a little but I thought that when she underwent her first 'art upgrade' she lost her chitin, of course that could also be down to being on the netherplane or whatever where everyone is weird colored shades anyhow, since she gained her two toed bug-feet and poo poo back the moment they got to the very beginning of the mottom arc
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Nov 27, 2016 02:49
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No Pun Intended posted:Again I apologise; I am a monster. Yeah, but she lost her big demon butt when she turned blue.
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Nov 27, 2016 03:24
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Darth Walrus posted:She wasn't a rogue demiurge, she was a rogue emissary (see the previous page). Much more of an embarrassment than a serious problem. No, I'm pretty sure she stole an actual key. Basically, it works like this, as far as I can tell. - Mammon's key is actually 111,111 keys clumped together. - Emissaries get an 'echo' of a one or a few of those keys, which lets them gate and zap out to the world that key represents. It's only an echo, and the actual original remains with the Demiurge. This is stated on the previous page. - Cio stole one key, leaving Mammon with 111,110, but she got the actual key and the magical power it brings with it, unlike an emissary. I think. It's possible she only stole an emissary pseudo-key, but she has a full crown and everything, I think she stole an actual one. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Nov 27, 2016 |
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Nov 27, 2016 05:10
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MikeJF posted:No, I'm pretty sure she stole an actual key. This would clarify the situation with ley-stones -- a ley-stone is not a key, but acts as a proxy for keys, so it marks the bearer as an emissary; when not receiving power, it remains dim, and it never generates a phantom crown, because it's just a receiver for Royalty, not a mark of it.
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Nov 27, 2016 05:27
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MikeJF posted:No, I'm pretty sure she stole an actual key. I think that's a pretty good summary of the whole affair going by the info we currently have. She couldn't have been an emissary since emissaries are granted their power willingly by one of the seven. And since they draw their power directly from the demiurge, they're probably still under their control and can have that power revoked at any time for any reason. Since Cio stole an actual key, Mammon had to go through the trouble of retrieving it from her in order to get that power back. It also means she probably had substantially more power than an emissary has, and could do whatever the hell she wanted with it (especially since she's been shown to be fairly skilled in her use of the art). E: Poltergrift posted:This would clarify the situation with ley-stones -- a ley-stone is not a key, but acts as a proxy for keys, so it marks the bearer as an emissary; when not receiving power, it remains dim, and it never generates a phantom crown, because it's just a receiver for Royalty, not a mark of it. I don't think ley stones have anything to do with the keys but I could be wrong. I'm pretty sure I saw a question about them on the 'submit' blog where Abbadon said they're just an accessory that acts as an amplifier for the bearer's own powers/natural talents but I can't find it at the moment. the future is WOW fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Nov 27, 2016 |
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Nov 27, 2016 06:01
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the future is WOW posted:I don't think ley stones have anything to do with the keys but I could be wrong. I'm pretty sure I saw a question about them on the 'submit' blog where Abbadon said they're just an accessory that acts as an amplifier for the bearer's own powers/natural talents but I can't find it at the moment.
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Nov 27, 2016 06:09
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I think ley stones are just generic places where you store/channel your power if you practice Art. If you're a demiurge or emissary, that poo poo gets crazy bright because there's a lot of power.
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Nov 27, 2016 |
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Nov 27, 2016 06:27
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I'll be pretty disappointed if the numerical part of angel names is reincarnation and not their creation number. So far, what, it's Mike and metatron that are confirmed prime? Any others? So that's 1 & 2, where's 3, 5, 7, 11,
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Nov 27, 2016 06:50
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SniperWoreConverse posted:I'll be pretty disappointed if the numerical part of angel names is reincarnation and not their creation number. So far, what, it's Mike and metatron that are confirmed prime? Any others? It is reincarnations. That's why the primes like Metatron don't have numbers, and a reckless do-gooder 82 White Chain has such a high number. Also Abbadon said it explicitly on the answer blog.
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Nov 27, 2016 07:07
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Metatron is mentioned as "1" a couple times I thought. Oh well, they should have had the primes be literal primes, it'd be cooler and weirder imo.
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Nov 27, 2016 07:15
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SniperWoreConverse posted:Metatron is mentioned as "1" a couple times I thought. Metratron and Michael are both primes and have numbers. 1 Metatron, as he never died, and 2 Michael, as he was killed by Zoss and reincarnated. The rest of the primes will be 2s when they come back as well.
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Nov 27, 2016 07:25
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White Chain is a cowboy cop who doesn't have time for the captain's politics and therefore is on his/her/its 82nd incarnation, because the 81st died in an incredible kung-fu battle.
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Nov 27, 2016 07:55
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SniperWoreConverse posted:Metatron is mentioned as "1" a couple times I thought. Metatron has never reincarnated, so he is Metatron 1, as opposed to 2 Michael.
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Nov 27, 2016 08:15
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my personal kgbd theory is that himself isn't unique because of his power but because he is the only piece of the hot black flame that has ever achieved sapience unaided by binding. all that power is just raw unfiltered hot black flame backed by a mind instead of roiling chaos.
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Nov 27, 2016 11:00
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Seems to me that Himself could very well be Aesmas husband?
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Nov 27, 2016 12:39
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Iny posted:Huh. Apparently she's been purple and chitinous apart from her face this entire time (source, or any other page she's ever appeared on now that I'm actually looking) and I literally just never noticed. Nah, she doesn't regain the bug look even when they travel to Mykos. The only real trace at this point is on her hands. I think we're in for an explanation of why her appearance changed, something like she kept the Yabalchoath look up while around Preem Nand but ditched it once free from him. It doesn't seem unreasonable that chaotic beings might not have strongly fixed forms after all.
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Nov 27, 2016 12:41
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Affi posted:Seems to me that Himself could very well be Aesmas husband? I thought the whole incident with Aesma's husband predated the creation of the inheritor races?
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Nov 27, 2016 13:16
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ConanTheLibrarian posted:Nah, she doesn't regain the bug look even when they travel to Mykos. The only real trace at this point is on her hands. I guess? Honestly this strikes me as being a lot like all the other stupid arguments this thread comes up with over the fine minutia of art in this comic. And, given that all of those arguments turned out to be exactly as stupid as they looked, I'm going to commit to the assumption that no, she's been a bug person this entire time and indeed continues to be a bug person, Abaddon just tends not to bother with drawing all the lines of her carapace. There's no complicated shapechanging thing going on to explain her gradual shift in appearance over the course of the comic, it's just a shift in art styles naturally reflecting the fact that we (and Abaddon, who is drawing her) are seeing her as a person now rather than some sort of weird gremlin. Iny fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Nov 27, 2016 |
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Nov 27, 2016 13:20
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A.o.D. posted:I thought the whole incident with Aesma's husband predated the creation of the inheritor races? Maybe. I mean its not like we can trust anything really. And that dude was chained up in a similar way.
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Nov 27, 2016 13:24
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Iny posted:I guess? Honestly this strikes me as being a lot like all the other stupid arguments this thread comes up with over the fine minutia of art in this comic. And, given that all of those arguments turned out to be exactly as stupid as they looked, I'm going to commit to the assumption that no, she's been a bug person this entire time and indeed continues to be a bug person, Abaddon just tends not to bother with drawing all the lines of her carapace. There's no complicated shapechanging thing going on to explain her gradual shift in appearance over the course of the comic, it's just a shift in art styles naturally reflecting the fact that we (and Abaddon, who is drawing her) are seeing her as a person now rather than some sort of weird gremlin. Also changed was the shape of the horns in her mask, i'm pretty sure she didn't get a new one but when she first shows up they aren't so thin.
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Nov 27, 2016 16:17
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Hiveminded posted:Newly-summoned Cio is holding a chain in the last panel, which I guess clarifies the new relationship she had with her husband. criminals are a cowardly and supersitious lot, so cio must become something that strikes fear into their heart. she must embody what they most fear. a chain... a... white chain
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Nov 27, 2016 21:27
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The chain symbolizes both ends of the slavery relationship. One of which she is expressing regret for in that exact panel.
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Nov 27, 2016 22:15
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Iny posted:I guess? Honestly this strikes me as being a lot like all the other stupid arguments this thread comes up with over the fine minutia of art in this comic. And, given that all of those arguments turned out to be exactly as stupid as they looked, I'm going to commit to the assumption that no, she's been a bug person this entire time and indeed continues to be a bug person, Abaddon just tends not to bother with drawing all the lines of her carapace. There's no complicated shapechanging thing going on to explain her gradual shift in appearance over the course of the comic, it's just a shift in art styles naturally reflecting the fact that we (and Abaddon, who is drawing her) are seeing her as a person now rather than some sort of weird gremlin. Nah Cio is clearly using the Art to make herself a better waifu for Allison.
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Nov 28, 2016 00:58
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SunAndSpring posted:Nah Cio is clearly using the Art to make herself a better waifu for Allison. "notice me, wobblebrains~"
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Nov 28, 2016 02:56
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you know, there's no scissors anywhere on the latest page, so how did they cut cio's hair? i'm thinking allison's magic scissors and now this unexplained haircutting are foreshadowing for some bigger barber-related twist
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Nov 28, 2016 09:40
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All hair are tiny unbound devils. He sanctioned action is to Cut.
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Nov 28, 2016 10:26
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Those scissors hold the key to learning the way of cutting.
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Nov 28, 2016 10:39
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hey girl you up posted:i'm thinking allison's magic scissors and now this unexplained haircutting are foreshadowing for some bigger barber-related twist Barber shenanigans and devil musical fight shenanigans are just foreshadowing to K6BD Act 2, where Allison, Cio, White Chain, and Princess Mamoru Moonshine create a barbershop quartet. (Nyave is their manager, since she's good at maths.)
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Nov 28, 2016 13:00
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