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Likewise worn snow tyres are extremely dangerous in warm, wet conditions
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Jan 5, 2017 21:49
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Brigdh posted:Does it help if I tell you that we got 5 inches, which was basically plowed by the morning commute, yet more than 50% of the office decided to stay home because they were afraid of conditions that the average MN/WI/IL driver wouldn't bat an eye at? If you're talking about the snow in Colorado, it's been going on for a while and it's actually pretty slick out right now. I was even kicked off a train because they had so many issues caused by the cold weather. Then on my 0.5mi drive home, I saw 2 people slide out, and even slid out myself. Granted I was going 20mph and nothing happened, but it's actually pretty lovely out there right now. It's a small layer of ice covered in a lot of loose powder. This was at 9:30, well after the morning commute rush.
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Jan 5, 2017 22:09
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Brigdh posted:Any vehicle can use all-seasons, so long as they have the M+S stamp. Besides no-name "chinese specials", I haven't seen an all season tire that didn't. Any vehicle can use M+S all seasons or winter tires, but 4WD/AWD has no tire requirement under that policy as long as there's more than 1/8" of tread. A GT-R on Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires would be legal for use in those conditions because it has AWD, no matter how horribly inappropriate those tires are for the conditions. As far as highways go 4WD/AWD is basically irrelevant, so giving them any kind of special treatment is silly. The policy should just be "M+S or winter tires only" for all vehicles.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:13
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Gorilla Salad posted:One very handy thing we have in Australia is that learner and probationary drivers must display special plates. So how do these stickers/plates/whatever work if the teenager doesn't have their own exclusive car? Are they magnetic things that the teenager keeps with them and slaps on the trunk lid when Dad decides to let them use his car to go to the movies? Or does the entire family have to get a scarlet letter because a teenager sometimes uses the family car?
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Jan 5, 2017 23:17
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They're easily removable, often just stuck to the inside of one of the windows if they're not the magnetic type. That said they often get left up full time. BTW the going to the movies thing wouldn't happen - L plates mean you need to be supervised by someone who has had their license for a few years at all times
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Jan 5, 2017 23:24
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We got an inch or two in Kansas City and they cancelled school today and everyone I know stayed home from work. My 25 mile commute to work was at an average of 20mph. My snow tires did me very little good as the roads were completely congested. At least I could rip by people when I could find an opening. Having snow tires in an area where they're not required is a bit of a luxury, so is running high performance summer tires in the summer. If you give a poo poo about handling, if you like summer tires in the summer, get some snow tires for the winter.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:34
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wolrah posted:Any vehicle can use M+S all seasons or winter tires, but 4WD/AWD has no tire requirement under that policy as long as there's more than 1/8" of tread. A GT-R on Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires would be legal for use in those conditions because it has AWD, no matter how horribly inappropriate those tires are for the conditions. While what you have said is true, you've missed the point. Yes, this is nit picking, but so was the original comment. Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires are not all season. They are not marketed that way, and if I go to my local tire shop and say I want an all season tire, they sure as poo poo are not going to recommend Cup 2s. Hell, when I want to buy tires in the same class as a Cup 2 for my track car, I have to specifically request them at Discount Tire. Tire Rack doesn't even list Cup 2s as an extreme performance summer tire, they are up in the competition listing. Far as hell from anything categorized as an all season. The original comment mentioned that AWD vehicles get off easy by being able to use all seasons. The 3 categories permitted to travel as identified by the law are - snow tire, M+S, or AWD. Again, I haven't seen a tire marketed as all season from a reputable source, say on Tire Rack, that didn't also carry M+S, which would also be legal on a non-AWD vehicle per the law. I guess my original point was that the comment that AWD vehicles can get by with all seasons is either misunderstanding what an all season tire is, or not clear that yes, the law stupidly allows AWD vehicles up in the mountains with Hoosier R6s when that tire has no business being in freezing conditions regardless of the drive configuration of the vehicle. A better version of the original comment - "Dumb as gently caress to allow AWD vehicles to get by with summer only or track only tires..." Although, considering the law is attempting to prevent people from getting stuck going up inclines, it somewhat makes sense as an AWD vehicle could possibly continue when a FWD or RWD vehicle might get stuck, given equal lovely for the conditions summer tires. Its still a stupid law as pointed out, by Jamal - braking probably the bigger factor in winter driving. Brigdh fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 23:38
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Powered Descent posted:So how do these stickers/plates/whatever work if the teenager doesn't have their own exclusive car? Are they magnetic things that the teenager keeps with them and slaps on the trunk lid when Dad decides to let them use his car to go to the movies? Or does the entire family have to get a scarlet letter because a teenager sometimes uses the family car? We have those in the UK and usually they're magnetic as you're not supposed to drive with them on if you're not a learner (with exceptions for driving instructor vehicles with more permanent installations/labelling). This means if you see a single driver in an L-plated car, they're either a learner driving illegally, or a non-learner driving illegally. There's other restrictions on learner licences, like how many passengers you can carry, I think. Doubt you'd ever get pulled over for just that though. It's not uncommon to see a non-magnetic one stuck to a car with brown parcel tape that's clearly only 30 mins newer than the car.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:39
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I live in Wisconsin and I bought a new Subaru WRX this year, and threw some Michelin Alpin PA4 snow tires on it. Previously I had a 2011 Jetta TDI that had some Continental snow tires on it. Honestly the biggest difference I'm seeing is it's a little tiny bit easier to get started on slippery stuff. Cornering and stopping and everything else is about the same when driving at sensible speeds for the conditions. Maybe it'd be more noticeable between the 2 cars if I was driving rally speeds or something, but honestly I think the biggest difference is snow tires instead of all seasons. Going from all seasons to snow tires on my Jetta made a MASSIVE difference. Any law that says AWD cars don't need snow tires in situations where 2WD cars would is stupid. It's an advantage, but not that much of one, I don't think. Granted I only have the one set of comparisons but I don't see AWD as this massive advantage when driving on snowy highways.
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Jan 6, 2017 01:51
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shortspecialbus posted:I live in Wisconsin and I bought a new Subaru WRX this year, and threw some Michelin Alpin PA4 snow tires on it. Previously I had a 2011 Jetta TDI that had some Continental snow tires on it. Honestly the biggest difference I'm seeing is it's a little tiny bit easier to get started on slippery stuff. Cornering and stopping and everything else is about the same when driving at sensible speeds for the conditions. Maybe it'd be more noticeable between the 2 cars if I was driving rally speeds or something, but honestly I think the biggest difference is snow tires instead of all seasons. Going from all seasons to snow tires on my Jetta made a MASSIVE difference. If you give gas in a low-traction situation, I'd say an AWD is also less likely to start to skid, and I think that makes a big difference as far as keeping people from freaking out and having an incident. I think that's how/why you see people binning it on straight sections of road with no other vehicles involved. Overall I still think winter tires are the most important factor.
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Jan 6, 2017 04:45
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AWD in snow is mostly about the ability to put down power and get moving, makes people confident in conditions. It doesn't really matter with the turning and stopping parts, that all comes down to rubber and maybe TCS.
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Jan 6, 2017 04:48
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Jan 6, 2017 05:55
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shortspecialbus posted:I live in Wisconsin and I bought a new Subaru WRX this year, and threw some Michelin Alpin PA4 snow tires on it. Previously I had a 2011 Jetta TDI that had some Continental snow tires on it. Honestly the biggest difference I'm seeing is it's a little tiny bit easier to get started on slippery stuff. Cornering and stopping and everything else is about the same when driving at sensible speeds for the conditions. Maybe it'd be more noticeable between the 2 cars if I was driving rally speeds or something, but honestly I think the biggest difference is snow tires instead of all seasons. Going from all seasons to snow tires on my Jetta made a MASSIVE difference. What sorts of differences did you personally see going from all seasons to winters on your Jetta? I'm driving a cheap car and I'm too cheap to outfit it with winters at the moment. I don't get a lot of snow where I am, though.
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Jan 6, 2017 07:03
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Jan 6, 2017 09:10
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imminentdegloving.jpg
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Jan 6, 2017 09:16
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Michael Scott posted:What sorts of differences did you personally see going from all seasons to winters on your Jetta? I'm driving a cheap car and I'm too cheap to outfit it with winters at the moment. I don't get a lot of snow where I am, though. I would term it as "significant." I no longer floundered at stop lights going green, trying to figure out the right gear to get myself moving in, especially if there was an incline. The all-seasons on the jetta would spin a lot if I wasn't really careful with the clutch. I had to really work to spin the winter tires. Stopping also felt a lot better, as well as cornering, but the biggest difference was I could just start the car moving without thinking rather than having to start in second gear or something or burning out my clutch on the really bad spots. YMMV if you had better all seasons than whatever a 2011 Jetta TDI Sedan 6 speed came with, but I found them very worthwhile in Wisconsin. If you live in like, Kansas, you're probably going to see a little less benefit. At this point in my life though I'm pretty much done with all season tires. Summers for summer, Winters for winter. Edit: To sum the whole thing up in two sentences, it makes it so you don't really have to think about things. You still need to drive sensibly for conditions, but you can put the actual mechanics in the back of your mind and just drive. ssb fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Jan 6, 2017 |
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Jan 6, 2017 13:59
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These are the comedians you share the road with http://www.tmz.com/2017/01/05/david-spade-car-accident/ xzzy posted:I actually like how Wyoming does it, at every interstate entrance/exit they have drop down gates installed that can be used to close the road completely. Every state west of the Mississippi has some gate deployments but I'm pretty sure Wyoming has more of them than anyone else. Can confirm. People like me get special permission to go around the gate with specific instructions for segments that cannot be used due to an accident/emergency services operations. https://wat.wyoroad.info/REWAT/wat This is an example of what it looks like when I get it: WYDOT posted:Dear B4Ctom1, xzzy posted:I thought the subarus were for the john denver types. xzzy posted:Pfft that doesn't help the stereotyping at all which severely damages my ability to generate forum comedy. in all seriousness though this: Sten Freak posted:Subarus are everywhere in CO, owned by every type of owner and driver you can think up. We have the biggest Subaru dealer in the country or something like that. I bought my second Subaru in Denver at Groove. The guy who handled the paperwork was paid to move from Chicago because he was the mack daddy Subaru seller there and they wanted him in their bigger market.
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Jan 6, 2017 18:14
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The flip flops are the last little detail that makes it art.
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Jan 6, 2017 18:41
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http://i.imgur.com/sInGs8B.mp4
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Jan 6, 2017 18:48
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xzzy posted:Pfft that doesn't help the stereotyping at all which severely damages my ability to generate forum comedy. quote:In the 1990s, Subaru’s unique selling point was that the company increasingly made all-wheel drive standard on all its cars. When the company’s marketers went searching for people willing to pay a premium for all-wheel drive, they identified four core groups who were responsible for half of the company’s American sales: teachers and educators, health-care professionals, IT professionals, and outdoorsy types.
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Jan 6, 2017 19:18
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quote:and that they were good for hauling stuff without being as large as a truck or SUV. And then 2009 happened and the Outback turned into the SUV sized boat we're stuck with today.
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Jan 6, 2017 19:26
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Yeah when I met my now-wife she had a Forester. I joked with her that it was a Melissa Ethridge Edition. It got pretty ratty so at the end it was christened the Lumpy Ovary. Snows are the poo poo but I just cannot justify them. It's not just the money to buy them but to get new wheels, have them swapped and all that. It's a commitment for the small number of bad days we have. I did still have problems in a particular scenario with snow tires on an RWD which was parallel parked in heavy snow. Where an AWD would have clawed its way out easily the rears had trouble pushing the turned front wheels over the heavy snow wall built up around the car. Sometimes you just need a shovel.
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Jan 6, 2017 19:27
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Ahh yes, the seemingly state-wide "snow day" yesterday in Colorado for 4 inches. Probably 1/4 or less the normal traffic on the roads, it was commuting bliss. Then today happened, everyone got back on the roads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rqJkpWPzq0 (bonus Subaru cam)
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Jan 6, 2017 19:56
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I wonder what his plan was.
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Jan 6, 2017 19:58
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TotalLossBrain posted:I wonder what his plan was. Not stopping apparently because I see no signs they ever attempted to drop the anchor.
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Jan 6, 2017 20:00
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TotalLossBrain posted:I wonder what his plan was.
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Jan 6, 2017 20:04
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My coworker has snow tires on her car. We were talking about her drive in and she said that despite the tires her brake was still pulsing sometimes so she was pumping her brakes. I told her that was the ABS and it was doing its job, basically pumping her brake for her very quickly so she didn't need to. She replied that she needed to pump so she could steer so I dropped it. 
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Jan 6, 2017 20:07
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Not even close bro. You done hosed that one up. (in case anyone is wondering what the gently caress is up with that intersection, it's our new diverging diamond)
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Jan 6, 2017 20:23
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Sten Freak posted:Snows are the poo poo but I just cannot justify them. It's not just the money to buy them but to get new wheels, have them swapped and all that. It's a commitment for the small number of bad days we have. I hear that, tho it does pay off in the long run. But if you're resourceful or maybe just lucky you can usually find something cheap. The local U-Pick-It junk yard sells steel wheels for $6 each. Tires are $18 each tho, whether they're any good or not. For my Sentra I went looking and was lucky enough to find a wrecked Altima with steelies still on it. They had bad rubber on them tho. So I pulled out a utility knife and cut the tires off as close to the beads as I could. I took them to the register and said straight faced as possible "4 wheels, no tires". The clerk looked for a second and says "that'll be 26 dollars".
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Jan 6, 2017 20:50
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  Soon. January 4th 2017 - Winter Storm Eugene, OR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX10z1GQuUs Winter is the best.
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Jan 6, 2017 21:44
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Lime Tonics posted:
WTF is wrong with that Ford pickup driver.
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Jan 6, 2017 21:50
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TotalLossBrain posted:WTF is wrong with that Ford pickup driver. I'm not even sure they were in 4WD. They seem to have been driving it like it was not their primary vehicle. Or they are just a dipshit
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Jan 6, 2017 22:44
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CharlieWhiskey posted:I'm not even sure they were in 4WD. They seem to have been driving it like it was not their primary vehicle. Or they are just a dipshit Wouldn't even matter really. It's obvious that no one has winter tyres on and should not be on the road. It'll be like that every year until winter tyres are required for everyone (even people traveling to) states that get winter temperature / conditions, and people stop being dumb about driving in winter conditions (not just snow) if they don't have winter tyres. Regardless of 4 wheel drive.
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Jan 7, 2017 09:04
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Vitamin J posted:Ahh yes, the seemingly state-wide "snow day" yesterday in Colorado for 4 inches. Probably 1/4 or less the normal traffic on the roads, it was commuting bliss. Was anyone else hoping that Explorer was a cop car? 
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Jan 7, 2017 10:16
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MrOnBicycle posted:Wouldn't even matter really. It's obvious that no one has winter tyres on and should not be on the road. It'll be like that every year until winter tyres are required for everyone (even people traveling to) states that get winter temperature / conditions, and people stop being dumb about driving in winter conditions (not just snow) if they don't have winter tyres. Regardless of 4 wheel drive. As someone who lives in a region that never sees snow, wouldn't a solution for that type of road/condition be to not attempt to traverse it in the first place? Would snow tires have made that a non issue or just less difficult? Genuinely curious.
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Jan 7, 2017 14:19
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The Ferret King posted:As someone who lives in a region that never sees snow, wouldn't a solution for that type of road/condition be to not attempt to traverse it in the first place? Would snow tires have made that a non issue or just less difficult? Genuinely curious. So there's 3 primary problems with winter driving in areas that don't frequently get snow vs somewhere like Wisconsin. 1.) Drivers have no clue what the gently caress they're doing, and frequently don't realize it. That idiot pickup truck in the Eugene, OR video above is a prime example. When that poo poo happens, you don't lock up your brakes. Either light braking or just let it roll or use throttle. Especially in a RWD car, you moderate your throttle to do your turns in bad snow more than you use your steering wheel, in a way. No matter what you don't want to lock your brakes up, ever. Odds are good that guy thought he was doing the right thing and the roads were the problem, not him. That's why he was on the road in the first place, because he knew how to drive. 2.) Drivers frequently have the wrong tires. All Seasons are fine, I guess, if people know how to drive in snow. I didn't get snow tires until I bought a house out in the country a couple years ago. Aside from trouble starting from a stop occasionally, I didn't get in a single accident or put it in a ditch at all in about 17 years of driving. It helped that I took my driving test in a horriffic blizzard, I guess. The problem is a lot of cars will have summer tires and not know it. If I hadn't checked, I would have assumed my new WRX came with all seasons. It didn't - it came with summers. That's good because now I don't have to sell them to get summer tires, but if I hadn't checked, I might have assumed they were all seasons. Or people will assume that yeah they have summer tires but that's ok for a couple drives in the snow (it isn't.) I've had winter tires now for 3 winters and I wouldn't go back to all seasons, though, even though they work fine. It's just a lot less stressful with winter tires. 3.) Areas like that are terrible at snow removal. Somewhere like Chicago or Wisconsin, we know how to get rid of loving snow, and we know how to make roads traversable. After any blizzard of 12" or less, the major highways will be so clear within about 12 hours that you would never have known there was a single flake of snow if you only looked at the pavement. City streets are not plowed that well normally, at least non-arterial ones, but they still get salted and sanded to hell and back, and it's rare to find somewhere that's impassible in a city within about 8 hours of a blizzard. It goes all hands on deck with every DOT plow and in really bad weather, a poo poo ton of private plows get contracted to do minor streets and some country roads. Even during the blizzard, major roads and highways will have plows and salt/sand running down them constantly so they'll be drivable. When I started dating my now-wife, we had to do an emergency run from Madison to O'Hare and back during a 10" blizzard. It took a little extra time, but we made it with no significant issues. The roads were poo poo but they were still at least somewhat plowed in at least one lane. We are good at snow removal. Somewhere that doesn't get snow isn't going to have poo poo for snow removal. If they even HAVE any DOT trucks, they won't have many, which means they'll be contracting a lot of it out or on occasion borrowing it from another state or municipality. During the storm they'll be lucky to have any roads that aren't interstates plowed at all, and the odds of salt and sand being used are slim to none. I hate salt and sand for what it does to the cars and the environment, but it's hard to say that it's not effective. Even with snow tires, you're going to have some trouble on roads that haven't seen any snow removal. Not as much as most of these buffoons would have you believe (they suffer more from #1 on my list) but it won't be a walk in the park, either. All 3 of these combine to make things a motherfucker for anyone who has to drive in it because they'll lose their job if they don't or they have whatever other reason that they really need to drive. However #1 really compounds everything because people that didn't grow up driving in snow really have no loving clue what to do, AWD or not. Don't lock up your brakes!!!! You can steer on anything that isn't glare ice if your wheels are moving, and you get to steer SOMEWHAT on glare ice if you're not going way too fast. Thinking they know what they're doing is why there are more cars on the road than there should be. Edit: Places like Queen Anne in Seattle (insanely steep hills) no tires are going to save you on that poo poo til they've removed the snow. I know how to drive in snow pretty loving well. I visited a friend in Seattle who lived in Queen Anne and all of a sudden all those videos I laughed at of rows of cars just sliding down hills made sense and didn't seem quite so funny anymore. I've never seen hills like that in my life with housing on them (I live in wisconsin, give me a break) and while most of those drivers compounded the problem by locking their brakes, they were probably hosed either way with hills like that and no plows. ssb fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Jan 7, 2017 |
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Jan 7, 2017 14:56
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The Ferret King posted:As someone who lives in a region that never sees snow, wouldn't a solution for that type of road/condition be to not attempt to traverse it in the first place? Would snow tires have made that a non issue or just less difficult? Genuinely curious. See above +The conditions in that video isn't something I can call bad really. I've driven a FWD shitbox up worse hills with a lot more snow when I lived in the countryside. It snowed for the first time here today, so I took the opportunity to drive in snow + freezing rain earlier today because it's probably the only snow we'll get this winter. No one had any trouble and my FWD MiTo in all weather mode with cheapo (I think) winter tyres that came with it handled it so well it was really boring to drive. Tried a minor hill as well. Winter tyres really make all the difference. Sure all season tyres get you by, but they don't hold a candle to proper winter tyres.
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Jan 7, 2017 15:55
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I learned to drive in Wisconsin too and also took my road test in the winter. #1 above is the biggest thing. As long as you're moving and your All-Seasons have decent tread you can maintain control. I drove a RWD for most of time there (learned on a shitbox Datsun 610 wagon) and never went into a ditch. Not stabbing at your brakes goes a long way toward that.
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Jan 7, 2017 16:51
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shortspecialbus posted:3.) Areas like that are terrible at snow removal. Somewhere like Chicago or Wisconsin, we know how to get rid of loving snow, and we know how to make roads traversable. After any blizzard of 12" or less, the major highways will be so clear within about 12 hours that you would never have known there was a single flake of snow if you only looked at the pavement. City streets are not plowed that well normally, at least non-arterial ones, but they still get salted and sanded to hell and back, and it's rare to find somewhere that's impassible in a city within about 8 hours of a blizzard. It goes all hands on deck with every DOT plow and in really bad weather, a poo poo ton of private plows get contracted to do minor streets and some country roads. Even during the blizzard, major roads and highways will have plows and salt/sand running down them constantly so they'll be drivable. When I started dating my now-wife, we had to do an emergency run from Madison to O'Hare and back during a 10" blizzard. It took a little extra time, but we made it with no significant issues. The roads were poo poo but they were still at least somewhat plowed in at least one lane. We are good at snow removal. Not in Wisconsin where I live  The main highway gets all the focus, and the side streets are completely ignored.Too be fair, I live in the suburban equivalent of "flyover country", but when we had our last winter storm warning everyone and their mother were driving because it was A. the last weekend before xmas and B. people are loving dumb.
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Jan 7, 2017 17:52
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iospace posted:Not in Wisconsin where I live Anything with a 35mph or higher speed limit should be fairly well plowed, that I've seen at least. 25mph or lower, maybe less so. I live about 20 miles outside Madison now so my knowledge may be a bit limited these days.
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Jan 7, 2017 17:58
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