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Zell, Rinoa
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Jan 15, 2017 23:28
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Zell and Rinoa!
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Jan 15, 2017 23:30
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rickiep00h posted:Also I loving loved the commentary on this one, Cool Ghost. Laughed out loud on several occasions. I'm glad to hear it, and I'm always glad to hear people are enjoying the LP. Also, Quistis is at least as much of a goony dork as Squall is, perhaps more.
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Jan 15, 2017 23:51
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Add another vote for Riona and Zell!
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Jan 16, 2017 02:58
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Selphie VS Quistis
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Jan 16, 2017 03:05
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Cool Ghost posted:I'm glad to hear it, and I'm always glad to hear people are enjoying the LP. This is the woman who is the reigning card battle champion (which is kinda like being the best Yu-Gi-Oh card player in high school), has her own fan club, and regularly gossips enough to know rags like Zell's T-board incident. She might be a dork, but she's
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Jan 16, 2017 03:09
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Quistis owns, and not just because she's the best Job Class.
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Jan 16, 2017 06:02
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Rinoa and Selphie
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Jan 16, 2017 16:07
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Quistis and Rinoa It's nice how the developers changed the start of that scene up depending on who you had with you. I think I'd only ever seen the Quistis one and the no Rinoa one before.
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Jan 16, 2017 19:04
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lezard_valeth posted:When are we doing the sidequest to collect cats for Quistis? Now all I can think about is Chrono Trigger except the whole story is getting Quistis cats
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Jan 16, 2017 20:54
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Bregor posted:Now all I can think about is Chrono Trigger except the whole story is getting Quistis cats That adorable little meow through 50 hours of thrilling gameplay.
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Jan 16, 2017 21:00
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I'm a bit late to the game, but what the hell - Selphie and Rinoa. Just caught up after reading from the beginning. I've never played FF8; I'm seeing why people say the plot is weird, but I'm not seeing why it's so badly hated (except for maybe Irvine  ) Maybe it's because my first exposure to it is through a detailed LP with good commentary? Either way,  to Cool Ghost for doing this - it's been a hell of a ride so far, and from reading everyone's "hints," I'm expecting it to get even more interesting.
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Jan 17, 2017 03:58
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Oh poo poo, I forgot to post it eight hours ago, but the party I'll be using next time I play will be Selphie and Rinoa.
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Jan 17, 2017 04:05
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Epsilon Moonshade posted:I'm a bit late to the game, but what the hell - Selphie and Rinoa. I would say it definitely has a lot to do with how well the LP is presented . So many scenes and background info are just straight up completely absent if you don't know where to look for them
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Jan 17, 2017 04:43
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Epsilon Moonshade posted:I'm seeing why people say the plot is weird, but I'm not seeing why it's so badly hated (except for maybe Irvine Orphanage plot twist is the big thing for most people, I think.
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Jan 17, 2017 04:44
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I think you're underestimating how hard the plot is to follow if you're actually playing it. Failing to piece together the story hints means you're just dealing with one random unconnected event after another.
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Jan 17, 2017 04:48
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I think it's a combination of the two. There's a lot to miss that can leave you feeling lost in the story or making things feel like they're out of left field like the romance between Squall and Rinoa being portrayed in a much more subtle way that most video games would do it. At the same timer, however, some plot points are so pointless, stupid, or just plain weird that they seem completely disconnected to anything else going on. The orphanage twist was all three of those combined. Our characters didn't need a reason to be together by that point in the game because they were just SeeD under Squall's leadership*, there was no pre-established reason for it to make sense in retrospect or real use of it made afterwards, and the memory loss (while being the only part that is kind of kept a tiny bit relevant) is basically just there to explain why this scene can totally exist even though none of them knew each other at all when they met. (No seriously guys, I promise it makes sense!) It feels like one of the junior writers blackmailed someone to get it into the script. *Irvine can be considered a special exception because they didn't feel mean enough to kick him off the garden when they finally had a moment to breathe between plot points in FH
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Jan 17, 2017 10:43
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Hey, this game is good actually! I have such a fondness for this game's plot. I really like that they were going for something understated and subtextual, I just wish the execution was a little better.
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Jan 17, 2017 11:28
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Coming from FF6 and FF7, I hated the orphanage twist, not only because it was contrived but because it seemed explicitly designed to replace the need to individually examine each character's backstory and motivations. Like, in previous Final Fantasy games each character has their own little subplot which completely takes over the story when you get to their hometown or whatever. While the orphanage is mostly just a boring non-backstory that doesn't really tell us anything new about the characters. Now that I'm older, I can appreciate that character development doesn't need to be as formulaic as I wanted it to be as a kid, but I still find it disappointing that the game never feels the need to really dig into exactly who Quistis or Zell or Irvine really are, and why they decided to keep following you around even as the command structure of Seed appears to fall apart. At least Selphie kind of gets her time in the spotlight.
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Jan 17, 2017 11:41
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LonesomeCrowdedWest posted:I would say it definitely has a lot to do with how well the LP is presented . So many scenes and background info are just straight up completely absent if you don't know where to look for them On a bigger picture scale too, the plot falls apart drastically in late Disc 2. The first two discs are fairly tight and reasonable - you're a SeeD taking missions, you find out the Sorceress is a threat, then get drawn into attacking the Sorceress in Deling City and fail, then you fight in the war and try to win. Okay, not exactly unique, but that's fine. But then in late Disc 2/Disc 3, you get: 1.) Every single relevant character except Rinoa knew each other for years. This has, stunningly never once come up even though Squall, Zell, Seifer, and Quistis went straight from the orphanage to SeeD and have thus spent every single day together basically forever. 2.) The characters have inexplicable memory loss. Except, uh, not. They only forgot very specific things from childhood. There's no indication that they forgot their early training or are commonly forgetful or anything like that. It's basically a "Very convenient that you forgot *that* and ONLY that, isn't it?" 3.) Sorcery power/evil is apparently transferable like an ancient curse. 4.) No wait, it's actually a Sorceress from the future choosing to transfer her power into women. 5.) Rinoa is in a coma so we're going to drag her body by hand for like 800 miles to a country that nobody's visited in decades and we know nothing about. 6.) Esthar has a space program and let's ship RInoa to space. 7.) Uh, so the moon is evil and Lunar Cry, something, something, monsters invade. And we haven't even seen just how ridiculous it gets yet. Honestly, if they'd just removed the orphanage scene and stopped the game at the end of Disc 2, I think FF8 wouldn't get nearly the level of complaints/hatred of the storyline.
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Jan 17, 2017 13:20
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The sniper plan/scene is really dumb and stupid, too. If it was just Irvine breaking down before he shoots, it'd be fine, but the whole stupidness with the B-team getting locked in Caraway's mansion and the entire idiocy of their plan and then it all ends up meaning nothing because Edea just shields from the bullet because we put her on alert by slamming the gates down. That part still makes me mad. E: VVV Oh it's still my favorite FF, but I'll also admit it's dumb as hell. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Jan 17, 2017 |
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Jan 17, 2017 14:06
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Hm. Am I the only one who unironically ranks this as either 1st or 2nd personal favorite FF (swaps with 6 depending on when you ask)?
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Jan 17, 2017 14:18
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Leon Cross posted:Hm. I dunno if I'd put it that high, but I like it a lot more than most people seem to. I liked the fact that it took risks in the game mechanics. I liked the spectacle of the story even if it was dumb and crazy as hell.
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Jan 17, 2017 14:33
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Cool Ghost posted:
(Also holy poo poo it's 2+ years old?!)
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Jan 17, 2017 14:35
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Leon Cross posted:Hm. It's my favourite. I really like the junctioning mechanic and the story. The_Frag_Man fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Jan 17, 2017 |
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Jan 17, 2017 15:46
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MagusofStars posted:This is a huge part of it. If you're not paying super-close attention and hitting everything, a lot of events come out of nowhere and don't seem to have any real rhyme or reason. Most of these points aren't true. quote:1.) Every single relevant character except Rinoa knew each other for years. This has, stunningly never once come up even though Squall, Zell, Seifer, and Quistis went straight from the orphanage to SeeD and have thus spent every single day together basically forever. Only Squall and Seifer went directly to Garden from the orphanage. Zell was adopted by the Dinchts, and Quistis says she didn't end up at Garden until she was 10. And even when they're at Garden, they don't spend every day together - Seifer and Squall spend some measure of time together, but Quistis is a teacher and Zell's in a different class. quote:2.) The characters have inexplicable memory loss. Except, uh, not. They only forgot very specific things from childhood. There's no indication that they forgot their early training or are commonly forgetful or anything like that. It's basically a "Very convenient that you forgot *that* and ONLY that, isn't it?" They're not forgetting very specific things, though, they forgot essentially the whole orphanage experience, and they're all concerned about that. The problem is that they mark it down as due to the GF, when each of the characters has their own specific and plausible reasons for having forgotten. We also know that certain important things aren't forgotten - Squall remembers being abandoned, and dwells on it, and we see that before we hear about the orphanage. quote:3.) Sorcery power/evil is apparently transferable like an ancient curse. These are two different things. Sorceress power passes from one person to the next. Ultimecia is a sorceress from the future who possesses sorceresses in what's "past" for her and present for the party. quote:5.) Rinoa is in a coma so we're going to drag her body by hand for like 800 miles to a country that nobody's visited in decades and we know nothing about. The whole point of going to Esthar is that it's a desperate reach. Squall knows Ellone is there, which is why he goes, even though she says she can't help him.
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Jan 17, 2017 15:50
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Wiki also claims that Quistis became a seed at the age of 15 and became a teacher at 17 so she was away for that time as well.
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Jan 17, 2017 16:01
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Leon Cross posted:Am I the only one who unironically ranks this as either 1st or 2nd personal favorite FF (swaps with 6 depending on when you ask)? I don't, but I do like a number of the dungeons, particularly the final one. But more on that when we get there.
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Jan 17, 2017 19:35
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Leon Cross posted:Hm. It's in my top 2. My other fave is XII. Theoretically I should include FFT, I guess, but the tactics games have always appeared very different from mainline FF, Ivalice Alliance notwithstanding.
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Jan 17, 2017 21:09
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WampaLord posted:The sniper plan/scene is really dumb and stupid, too. Another LPer a couple of years ago suggested an alternative plan of dropping the gates to trap Edea and then releasing the hounds on her, with the A team's sole role to record all that on video  It's hilarious how that plan makes more sense than what our protagonist end doing. And we are to believe that Rinoa's father is a genious militar strategist.
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Jan 17, 2017 23:10
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lezard_valeth posted:Another LPer a couple of years ago suggested an alternative plan of dropping the gates to trap Edea and then releasing the hounds on her, with the A team's sole role to record all that on video  But what if she ices all the dogges?
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Jan 17, 2017 23:15
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Oh, and then the orphanage reveal makes the sniper mission all the more stupid because Irvine knew that they were ordering him to shoot his own mother (or close enough) and he didn't say anything to anyone. Or he did complain and they sent him on the mission anyway because Japan puts honor and duty over emotions or something silly.
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Jan 17, 2017 23:19
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lezard_valeth posted:Another LPer a couple of years ago suggested an alternative plan of dropping the gates to trap Edea and then releasing the hounds on her, with the A team's sole role to record all that on video the only way the original plan makes sense is if Caraway was setting them up to fail.
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Jan 17, 2017 23:20
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Everyone is also missing the most egregious problem, which is that Edea is completely blocked from view of the sniper by the huge back of her float. You can see that in every single cutscene except the one where the shot is fired, and that one cuts away because only then, apparently, did the cinematic creators realize the error.
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Jan 17, 2017 23:40
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WampaLord posted:Oh, and then the orphanage reveal makes the sniper mission all the more stupid because Irvine knew that they were ordering him to shoot his own mother (or close enough) and he didn't say anything to anyone. Irvine doesn't hear Edea's name until Deling City (at which point he tries to voice concerns to Squall, but is ignored) and doesn't see her until her even later (causing him to freeze up before taking the shot). He doesn't know until it's too late. Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Everyone is also missing the most egregious problem, which is that Edea is completely blocked from view of the sniper by the huge back of her float. You can see that in every single cutscene except the one where the shot is fired, and that one cuts away because only then, apparently, did the cinematic creators realize the error. This is true, though, and it's very annoying once you see it. I think the sniper plan would have been better if Irvine shot and then C-team dropped the gates, to cut off easy access to Edea/give SeeD a chance to get in close (it should probably also have been Quistis leading the direct attack).
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Jan 18, 2017 01:11
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The worst part of the sniping mission in my opinion is how Quistis and Rinoa phase through each other in the doorjam, and then Carroway locks the door.
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Jan 18, 2017 01:27
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The plot really is pretty nonsensical in a lot of places and just kinda falls apart if you think about things for more than a couple seconds, though. Being thorough to find more hidden details helps somewhat, but it doesn't fix most of the stuff that just doesn't make much sense.Cool Ghost posted:Only Squall and Seifer went directly to Garden from the orphanage. Zell was adopted by the Dinchts, and Quistis says she didn't end up at Garden until she was 10. And even when they're at Garden, they don't spend every day together - Seifer and Squall spend some measure of time together, but Quistis is a teacher and Zell's in a different class. Perhaps they spent some time apart, but it's clear they all know each other very well by when the game started even if they're in different classes or whatever. It's clear they don't lose their memories instantly, because as MagusofStars pointed out, they don't forget their training or other general information or being abandoned. So yes, they've basically been with each other pretty consistently with maybe some gaps here or there (and not even with gaps in the case of Squall and Seifer). The things they forget seem to be plot-convenient things more than a consistent pattern of forgetting things. I actually don't find the orphanage thing that much worse than other stuff in the game, but it's presented as this big reveal/twist when really its ultimately pointless and makes no difference to the story. It's a big "so what?" moment. Cool Ghost posted:These are two different things. Sorceress power passes from one person to the next. Ultimecia is a sorceress from the future who possesses sorceresses in what's "past" for her and present for the party. But as we'll continue to see going forward, sorceress power-passing is ill-explained and inconsistent. It passed from Edea just because we bonked her on the head? It's a totally uncontrollable hot-potato that might pass without warning and without the sorceress even knowing about it? Losing it doesn't even seem to take their magic powers away? What? Cool Ghost posted:The whole point of going to Esthar is that it's a desperate reach. Squall knows Ellone is there, which is why he goes, even though she says she can't help him. I like how a big point was made that the only way to reach Esthar is over the bridge, which Squall has to walk on manually, only for everyone else to be there ahead of him! How'd that happen? Who knows! Cool Ghost posted:Irvine doesn't hear Edea's name until Deling City (at which point he tries to voice concerns to Squall, but is ignored) and doesn't see her until her even later (causing him to freeze up before taking the shot). He doesn't know until it's too late. So we're to believe that Irvine has no idea who he's supposed to assassinate until he's pointing his gun? Oh wait, no, he never pointed his gun or saw her until he finally fired because he was too scared to stand up. He squatted down behind the wall before the platform raised and never even looked as his target until Squall made him shoot. Also, he specifically says that "this always happens- I choke under pressure." Which means that he has repeatedly failed to perform his shooting missions because he chokes, and not because of anything to do with Edea. I still don't believe that a swaggering braggart like Irvine would make up a self-depreciating lie on the spot not to shoot Edea rather than saying something like, "no, I can't shoot Matron!" or something to that effect. And if he chokes all the time, why was he Galbadia garden's best gunman? Really? And don't say because Martine wanted them to fail- because that would lead to exactly what happened, of the sorceress getting pissed and nuking Galbadia garden. That would be totally stupid. Actually everything with Norg and Martine and that mission was dumb and didn't make any sense, but that could be a huge post on its own. Schwartzcough fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Jan 18, 2017 |
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Jan 18, 2017 01:32
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Leon Cross posted:Hm.
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Jan 18, 2017 01:39
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Schwartzcough posted:Which means that he has repeatedly failed to perform his shooting missions because he chokes, and not because of anything to do with Edea. I still don't believe that a swaggering braggart like Irvine would make up a self-depreciating lie on the spot not to shoot Edea rather than saying something like, "no, I can't shoot Matron!" or something to that effect. I said the same thing long ago, even if it was just generic and "you want me to shoot her!?" and chalk it up to the Edea's mega-charm spell only later. Or show GFs right then and there gently caress with their memories, and have him try and explain, then start to forget, and then chalk it up to Jedi Powers. But yeah. Irvine. gently caress him and his useless, pointless, smug face.
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Jan 18, 2017 01:47
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Schwartzcough posted:
 Sorceress magic is true magic, the magic used by Squall and the others is para-magic enabled by junctioning GFs. There's no reason why Edea would lose her ability to cast para-magic after Ultimecia got squeezed out of her. I'd imagine that the reason Edea lost her powers at the end of disc 2 when she did is because Ultimecia witnessed her host being defeated in combat by a potentially superior host and decided to migrate to the other one. This is also why Rinoa can now poo poo out loads and loads of free meteors.
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Jan 18, 2017 01:48
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