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Wiz posted:When I say 'fight back' I literally mean 'fight back' as in shoot lasers at it. You could just rip a page from the news and give players the option to humiliate and subvert the hegemonic culture like we're seeing with this loose alliance of authoritarian regimes in the modern day.
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Feb 3, 2017 16:10
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I hope, if we do decide to go Maximum Robot and discard these paltry meat bodies, that when we do so we have some differentiation from regular synthetics. Regular names and such, to reflect we're a species with a history, not some mass-produced AIs.
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Feb 3, 2017 17:05
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Sky Shadowing posted:I hope, if we do decide to go Maximum Robot and discard these paltry meat bodies, that when we do so we have some differentiation from regular synthetics. Regular names and such, to reflect we're a species with a history, not some mass-produced AIs.
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Feb 3, 2017 17:16
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I still think the feature I'd most like to see is scanning enemy ships. Like give us a tech that lets us analyze enemy ships within sensor range so that we can see what components they're using and let us design a counter for their general strategy.
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Feb 3, 2017 17:44
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Serf posted:I still think the feature I'd most like to see is scanning enemy ships. Like give us a tech that lets us analyze enemy ships within sensor range so that we can see what components they're using and let us design a counter for their general strategy. If you can see a ship on your sensors you already can tell its exact construction (unless it's a FE/pirate/other nonstandard ship).
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Feb 3, 2017 18:05
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Magil Zeal posted:If you can see a ship on your sensors you already can tell its exact construction (unless it's a FE/pirate/other nonstandard ship). It would be really nice if I had some way to remember them, though
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Feb 3, 2017 18:06
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Magil Zeal posted:If you can see a ship on your sensors you already can tell its exact construction (unless it's a FE/pirate/other nonstandard ship). Oh really? Where's that at? I tried clicking on them but that didn't seem to do anything.
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Feb 3, 2017 18:08
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Serf posted:Oh really? Where's that at? I tried clicking on them but that didn't seem to do anything. Each individual ship has a little magnifying glass icon on it that will show you its design if you click it. eta: Incidentally, this reminds me of two gripes I have: the listing of individual ships is very unwieldy given late-game fleet sizes (don't get me started on the interface to split ships off into new fleets...) and there needs to be some way to upgrade non-standard "event" ships.
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Feb 3, 2017 18:13
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GlyphGryph posted:It would be really nice if I had some way to remember them, though +1 for "observed designs" tab in diplo window
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Feb 3, 2017 18:12
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Space Empires had a good mechanic for military intel. You built intel centres and had a budget of intel points, you'd allocate them to other empires to potentially be able to learn more about them from basic demographics to ship designs. You also had an intel page for each empire showing all known designs and estimated numbers, you learn this through intel spending and direct observation. Your ships can also have better sensors and the enemy better stealth which makes it harder to see inside of them and know what they're packing. So you might get intel that the enemy has some new battleship design, you'll know maybe the name of the class but not its design or number. Later you fight one, and from observation your intel gets updated showing the general loadout of weapons and shield strength but you're not sure about special systems. Eventually you bring a dedicated scanning/recon ship into a battle and get the full picture. It would also lead to fun situations like in trek with the romulans that if an empire has been closed off for generations and you haven't really encountered them, your intel on their ships might be generations old. You think "bah, these designs are lovely, they only use mass drivers and don't even have shields" but also note that the most recent ship design intel is like 60 years old. You can go try to scout them out with a stealth ship, do a little tour of their territory. You can try to allocate a bigger intel budget, or you can just attack them and learn as you go. Some sort of basic intel-points system you invest in other empires to learn more about them, plus an intel screen showing a collection of everything you know and every ship design you've encountered (sorted of course by date or estimated/known numbers) would actually make ship design relevant. You could learn that a potential enemy favours lasers and their fleet seems to be limited to destroyers, and learn this before you go to war. You can of course do this now if you have open borders and send a ship through and make physical notes on some scrap paper but a nicely organized in-game system would be so much nicer. Intel could also give you more insight into their current goals and strategies. You could learn they are building up to attack a certain empire, you could see they're hurting for minerals which is slowing down their economy, you could see they have a faction crisis brewing. You could see, well, actual interesting information to help you make meaningful choices in the game.
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Feb 3, 2017 18:44
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Can anyone help me out with ship building tech priorities? When it comes to ship research what are the important things to get? I always find myself wanting to focus on non ship research beyond unlocking the ships themselves. Of course when I finally do focus on them what do I unlock five tiers of....missiles (in regard to a post I saw saying avoid missiles). In fairness I never usually get this far in the game or research tree. It was a lot of fun though and definitely felt more fleshed out than at launch. Also the less said about resources spent trying to attack and (survey...twice) the enigmatic fortress before releasing it was a non standard event...the better.
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Feb 3, 2017 18:44
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In addition to the ship classes themselves you are also probably going to want to focus on power and drive tech so your ships move faster and you can afford to power all your shiny new gizmos. From there it kinda depends on what your opponents are doing - try to stay current with weapon tiers but don't neglect shields and when you start unlocking cruiser and battleships you're going to want armour as well since it is much more effective when applied to them.
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Feb 3, 2017 19:44
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MazelTovCocktail posted:Can anyone help me out with ship building tech priorities? Sensors and engines are the most important techs, followed by afterburners.
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Feb 3, 2017 19:44
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Wiz posted:When I say 'fight back' I literally mean 'fight back' as in shoot lasers at it. Also having non laser based options is more grand strategyery than just laser based options.
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Feb 3, 2017 19:58
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Thanks guys! Also hey a Gaia world, sweet that's going to be a great place to colonize...oh it's a fallen empires fap spot...great.
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Feb 3, 2017 20:08
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Psychotic Weasel posted:In addition to the ship classes themselves you are also probably going to want to focus on power and drive tech so your ships move faster and you can afford to power all your shiny new gizmos. train of thought from here - how good is the auto-upgrader at making useful ships? Is it one of those things that is helpful in the beginning but becomes useless once you start getting more options, is it consistently good, or irredeemably bad?
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Feb 3, 2017 20:18
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ChickenWing posted:train of thought from here - how good is the auto-upgrader at making useful ships? Is it one of those things that is helpful in the beginning but becomes useless once you start getting more options, is it consistently good, or irredeemably bad? I'll second that question, it's really what use because I rarely get to into min-max with ship design.
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Feb 3, 2017 20:27
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I just want to say that the trailer introducing Utopia, with the Dyson Sphere blocking out the sun, and the cold mist blowing through the streets of what one imagines to be a city-computer where all the populace's minds have been uploaded, with the word "Utopia" appearing was the coolest god drat thing. Because I could imagine that being a legit utopia. But it comes off as creepy as gently caress. Which is appropriate for Banks. I could not be more pleased with all the features for this patch/expansion. All we need is universal food and some sort of pop stacking on planets and internal empire development will be perfect. GlyphGryph posted:If you implement a culture system without giving a powerful counterplay system aka "a way to fight back" you have only implemented half of the system so yeah duh players dont lile half finished game systems. You're describing balancing a gameplay option... which I guess would be possible if you really tried, but what the heck it it supposed to represent? Let's say you've got a lovely authoritarian Space North Korea next to a cultural giant Space America (or Space France or The Culture or whatever your culture is supposed to represent). What is going on at the border where a populated planet just... shifts administrations? Are you beaming TV shows at them? Are you beaming your ideology? Okay, let's say you've got their population all riled up, and that planet wants to join the cultural hegemon. But Space North Korea has its whole fleet there. Why the heck would they ever agree to the premise "okay, this is now lawfully Space America territory now" and just leave without shooting at things first. Wiz's response saying players will get pissed if you lose territory without being able to shoot at stuff is only half of it- any political entity (besides truly dedicated democracies) wouldn't agree to the transition without shooting at stuff. You might be able to balance it like an abstract card game, where the culture card is countered by the espionage card or whatever, but you can never make it feel right, because it's nonsense to begin with. If you want "peaceful" transition of territory, it's got to be funding rebel groups who would need to give the other empire enough poo poo that they decide to let them go rather than keep fighting them, or something on that level. It needs to make sense.
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Feb 3, 2017 20:28
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MazelTovCocktail posted:I'll second that question, it's really what use because I rarely get to into min-max with ship design. I'm sure it does a good enough job giving you something that works. Its the same aystem the AI empires use to design their ships IIRC.
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Feb 3, 2017 20:30
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The trailer reeaaaaaly has a SMAC vibe, I'd love to know if this was on purpose of not. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwqN3Ur-wP0
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Feb 3, 2017 20:40
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Except I totally said a (non-pacifist) Empire should have the opportunity to stop it from happening through judicious use of violence. But it's not like it's impossible for peaceful transitions to happen - are you ignoring the whole Scotland leaving the UK to join the EU thing that actually potentially happened in real life? Do you think the UK would have shot them to stop it? And they're on the same Island, not separated by a vast gulf of empty space. Pacifist Empires, especially Democracies, wouldn't have the violent suppression option but would obviously pretty adept at counter-cultural warfare of their own. Adding more non-shooty gameplay for Pacifist and less militaristic Empires to engage in would be a good thing. Also, you could do things like funding and promoting this sort of result hoping they will violently put down the peaceful secession attempt and use that as a cassus belli to convince a few other normally pacifist countries to invade them with you as a result of the rep hit and "liberate" the planet directly into your Empire the way you can with planets that are conquering back (I think that's how that works?) in violation of the normal liberation limitations pacifists operate under. But yeah you're right outright stealing a planet will be a bit more rare, but stealing some resources through 'heavy investment' and 'media popularity' should be more than doable. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Feb 3, 2017 |
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Feb 3, 2017 20:40
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ChickenWing posted:train of thought from here - how good is the auto-upgrader at making useful ships? Is it one of those things that is helpful in the beginning but becomes useless once you start getting more options, is it consistently good, or irredeemably bad? It's fine if you don't research missiles.
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Feb 3, 2017 20:51
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Arglebargle III posted:Sensors and engines are the most important techs, followed by afterburners. Sensors are +3 tracking and engines are +3 evade, which is not a lot. Going up a weapon tier is +10-20% damage depending on the type and mount size. Shields are also a pretty decent effective hp boost on corvettes, with armor being more ideal if they are running kinetics. Generally I prioritize weapons and shields early. Once you have some kind of shield/armor to stack depending on what the other guy is running then going to destroyers is a good idea. With their tracking bonus, they will out range the corvettes and hit them most of the time with the medium mounts they are packing. If you are running missiles none of this applies just build a ball of 20-30 corvettes and go kill someone cause missiles are king early. Then diversify immediately before PD comes out and you lose the game (salvage the wreckage of the guy you killed). Alternatively, cloud lightning+energy siphon actually works ok for a while if you can get those, though you will eventually be badly outclassed if you don't get something better. I also like sticking with missile stations/starports since they generally wreck corvette heavy early game fleets due to large missile accuracy, and if they waste slots on pd to deal with it they are gimping themselves when they fight your actual fleet. Nuclearmonkee fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Feb 3, 2017 |
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Feb 3, 2017 20:52
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ChickenWing posted:train of thought from here - how good is the auto-upgrader at making useful ships? Is it one of those things that is helpful in the beginning but becomes useless once you start getting more options, is it consistently good, or irredeemably bad? Dwesa fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Feb 3, 2017 |
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Feb 3, 2017 20:56
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I once had early on destroyers (when destroyers were all I could build) where all the weapons were point defense, not especially useful in actually doing damage to the enemy.
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Feb 3, 2017 21:03
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Does anyone know if I own a piece DLC (the Leviathans Pack for example) and my friend doesn't, will we be able to play multiplayer with all the content that I own or does he have to buy all of it as well?
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Feb 3, 2017 21:15
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Jack Trades posted:Does anyone know if I own a piece DLC (the Leviathans Pack for example) and my friend doesn't, will we be able to play multiplayer with all the content that I own or does he have to buy all of it as well? If you host the game, then all players in an MP game play with your DLC. I'm not sure precisely how this works with stuff like Plantoids, though.
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Feb 3, 2017 21:22
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every time i play a warmongering game i at some point end up thinking "man it would really piss me off to play against me"
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Feb 3, 2017 21:27
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Coolguye posted:every time i play a warmongering game i at some point end up thinking "man it would really piss me off to play against me" This one dickhead has totally built a colony where I intended to colonize; why can't tell him to burn it or face my wrath?
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Feb 3, 2017 22:16
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Coolguye posted:every time i play a warmongering game i at some point end up thinking "man it would really piss me off to play against me" In those games, I like to think of myself as someone else's Endgame Crisis or possibly Awakened Fallen Empire. "Every 10 years this rear end in a top hat simultaneously jumps into 16* of our systems and demands 5 of our planets in tributes, then sends all of our people to the gas chamber! This is horrible!" *You need 14 planets under bombardment to hit 100% WS in 1.4, but it's easier to just split the death fleet into a power of 2. ulmont fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Feb 3, 2017 |
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Feb 3, 2017 22:23
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in this case i found an early space age primitive nearby, so i invaded them - it was a good planet, and i found them a full 2 years before New Worlds Protocol was even done. the last month before i finished the conquest, my initial neighbor rang up and said hi, so he immediately got the opinion malus for invading primitives. then i went ahead and murdered all the natives because it was a nice world so he then got ANOTHER malus for me being genocidal. i noticed i had a tech edge over him so i basically decided "no witnesses" and declared an extremely early war against him (it was like 15-20 years into the game), blew up his fleet, blew up all the orbitals i could find, and now i have my ships hanging out off his home planet. i can't blow up his starport because it's too early in the game (i'm teching to point defense and destroyers so i can get it done), but he can't break the stellar blockade and he can't move his civilian ships out of port to go do work. another half-dozen empires have shown up in the interrim and not a single loving one of them care about this podunk spiritual empire i'm slowly strangling to death, and not a single one of them know about me murdering a species on the brink of joining the galactic community to get an early planet. if an AI behaved even a little bit like me we'd have people calling for wiz to hang from a tree.
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Feb 3, 2017 22:24
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Coolguye posted:if an AI behaved even a little bit like me we'd have people calling for wiz to hang from a tree. Agreed, but your story looks hilarious. My early non-purifier game strategy has usually been "meet 2 races, decide which is the most dickish, invade them with help of other race to double my production"
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Feb 3, 2017 22:26
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Mine is "meet another race and quickly forward settle those fuckers before they do it to me!  ". After that it's the build up for the conquest and purge train or just plain conquest time. I think I'm incapable of playing as pacifist. Do witnesses really matter? Just kill them too. Then kill the new witnesses and the people who saw you kill those. Also eat them all out of spite. 
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Feb 4, 2017 00:42
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Deceitful Penguin posted:The annoying thing is that I'm not allowed to make the demands the Fallen Empires are. Because you're neither Collectivist or Xenophobic.
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Feb 4, 2017 01:05
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:Because you're neither Collectivist or Xenophobic. just a, pacifist one 
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Feb 4, 2017 02:01
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Arglebargle III posted:Sensors and engines are the most important techs, followed by afterburners. Why would you ever take afterburners? Are you giving bad advice on purpose?
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Feb 4, 2017 04:37
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Deceitful Penguin posted:But I am a xenophobe!
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Feb 4, 2017 04:39
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afterburners are good on corvettes and literally nothing else
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Feb 4, 2017 06:25
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What the hell am I supposed to do about an ascended fallen empire that wants to reclaim the galaxy, when they're flying around with multiple 100k + strength fleets? I had a fleet that big and I beat one of their fleets then they brought 3 more and kicked my rear end. I'm rebuilding but it's relatively slow and now I see a 173k power fleet jumping into my system and that's gonna kick my rear end. Everyone is at war so nobody can engage in diplomacy, so there's just kinda nothing to do. I'm beginning to remember why I stopped playing this when it first came out, the endgame just peter's out into nothing.
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Feb 4, 2017 06:39
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Afterburners are never good.
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Feb 4, 2017 06:56
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