dont even fink about it posted:

- Utter waste of Ron Pearlman, who usually livens up even really bad movies.

socialsecurity posted:

Out of nowhere? It was literally the plot of the first episode.

Tears In A Vial posted:

I had no idea he was even in that movie.

Blade_of_tyshalle posted:

He was buried beneath a Reman prosthetic and given nothing to do except loom and I guess fight Riker. That role could have been purely stunt-acted.

Tears In A Vial posted:

yeah I just looked up who he played and I had no idea they'd even bother with a 'known' actor for that part.

twistedmentat posted:

Those who had been reading 50 year journey, did you get any info why Nemesis was such a poo poo show? I feel at its core was a fundamental misunderstanding of what people like about trek.

Mister Kingdom posted:

twistedmentat posted:

Those who had been reading 50 year journey, did you get any info why Nemesis was such a poo poo show? I feel at its core was a fundamental misunderstanding of what people like about trek.

WampaLord posted:

I haven't read the book but my understanding is the writer was a friend of Stewart and Spiner and wrote them a bunch of stuff, including the dune buggy thing just because Stewart wanted to drive cause he likes driving.

quote:

RICK BERMAN

The ironic thing is that everyone from the studio to me thought we’d crafted a really good movie. And nobody came to see it. It wasn’t even a question of not getting good reviews. Any Star Trek movie opened and it would have a huge opening weekend, but this one didn’t. Now, why? I understand and appreciate the criticisms of the production or script, but, to this day, I have some difficulty understanding why it met with such a poor reception. John Logan has gone on to write huge movies, but the movie backfired and there’s certainly a lot of room for discussion of why. It was sad and a little baffling to me.

quote:

MARINA SIRTIS

The director was an idiot.

FlamingLiberal posted:

Nemesis came out around the same time as a LotR movie so that didn't exactly help. I still think it's marginally better than Insurrection

WickedHate posted:

The director didn't know poo poo about Trek and constantly ignored people trying to nudge him in the right direction. That's probably not the only reason, but a fairly big one.

Frionnel posted:

Frionnel's list of what's bad in DS9:
Profit and Lace
Everything to do with Pah-Wraiths
Ezri (She just needed more seasons)
Ezri and Bashir romance (or "if Worf hadn't shown up it would have been you" )
Sisko's mom and Sisko being Space Jesus out of nowhere

MikeJF posted:

The director was picked by the studio; he saved Mission Impossible... 2 (I think?) with a post-production re-cut and he was promised a directing gig as a reward. They gave him Nemesis. That was it for his directorial career.

WampaLord posted:

I haven't read the book but my understanding is the writer was a friend of Stewart and Spiner and wrote them a bunch of stuff, including the dune buggy thing just because Stewart wanted to drive cause he likes driving.

FlamingLiberal posted:

Rick Berman basically retired after Enterprise so none of that is a surprisen

Timby posted:

why you don't let "fans" write.

quote:

Both LeVar Burton (Geordi La Forge) and Marina Sirtis (Deanna Troi) have spoken critically of Baird's decision to not watch any Next Gen episodes. Burton said that Baird repeatedly called him "Laverne" and originally thought Geordi was an alien rather than a human with cybernetic eyes.

FlamingLiberal posted:

Nemesis came out around the same time as a LotR movie so that didn't exactly help. I still think it's marginally better than Insurrection

J33uk posted:

It wasn't even a matter of just being close to LoTR. It was released five days before The Two Towers came out at the very height of LoTR mania. In some ways that's what makes Nemesis fascinating; almost every single thing about and tangentially connected to the movie was a failure.

Timby posted:

He was fired after Paramount took a look at his "The Beginning" script and pissed themselves from laughing.

Item Getter posted:

What's this about?

bull3964 posted:

Five days before is plenty of buffer. If it came out AFTER it would have been a problem. Before, not as much. Yeah, there's some validity to the idea that people will be so fixated on LotR that they would ignore it, but probably not significantly.

"I'm not going to watch Star Trek this week because I'm going to see Two Towers next week" said no one ever.

VanSandman posted:

Movies are a luxury. Plenty of people budget only for a movie here and there, not one a week.

Kazinsal posted:

A pilot from a family of Antarctic xenophobes steals a nuke to use against the Romulans after they start a war against Earth demanding to be allowed to cause a Vulcan Holocaust.

VanSandman posted:

Movies are a luxury. Plenty of people budget only for a movie here and there, not one a week.

Hot Dog Day #82 posted:

Poor Geordi never caught a break during the filming, either

Unbelievably Fat Man posted:

I want to make a Star Trek movie, but I'm gonna focus on that groundbreaking moment where Fry thinks Hermes is an outerspace potato man.

Pwnstar posted:

Ezri Dax: A warrior culture's teachings, and most importantly, the nature of its people, achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves… or find themselves lacking. Too long did the Klingon Empire remain unchallenged. It is a stagnant beast that labors for breath… and has for centuries. The Dominion War was the heart that sustained its sickness—now the Founders have lost, we shall see how long the Empire can survive.

Worf:

Grand Fromage posted:

I love that Bashir being willing to murder Garak to achieve his goals is the most proud we ever see Garak being about anyone.

Timby posted:

Basically, Spiner was very cagey. Whereas the rest of the cast always signed their movie contracts with an option for another one, Spiner flat-out went movie-to-movie. After being incredibly unhappy with Insurrection, in which he had very little to do and his character went backwards, he refused to sign on for another movie unless he had the same level of creative control that Stewart had on Insurrection. (The shitshow that was Insurrection should have have told everyone right then and there what a terrible idea that was.)

Anyway, Spiner had become friends with John Logan, who is an unbelievably terrible writer and had a ridiculously unearned reputation attached to him because he had a script credit on Gladiator (his script was rewritten on the set because it was such a mess, but he went to WGA arbitration and won because enough of the dialogue that he wrote for Commodus remained in the finished product). So Spiner and Berman start spouting on about how they've got an Oscar-winning screenwriter on the movie, and he's a huge Trek fan, and they've got the best villain since Khan, yadda yadda.

And then Stuart Baird gets the director's chair. Now, Baird is a legendary editor, and he has that reputation for good reason -- he's had a hand in some of the greatest movies of all time. But his two prior directorial efforts, Executive Decision and US Marshals, were complete disasters. He did, however, step in to do last-minute salvage jobs on Mission: Impossible 2 and Tomb Raider. (M:i2, in particular, was a complete loving mess, as John Woo's cut came in north of three hours long and made no sense whatsoever.) Because both of those movies made a metric poo poo-ton of money for Paramount, Baird was promised a flagship directing job. That turned out to be Nemesis.

So Spiner gets his bobo to write a script that basically jacks him off for the entire runtime, the movie's directed by a guy who flat-out didn't want to be there ... it was doomed from the start. Nemesis is proof of why you don't let the cast control the script, and why you don't let "fans" write.


He was fired after Paramount took a look at his "The Beginning" script and pissed themselves from laughing.

Timby posted:

And then Stuart Baird gets the director's chair. Now, Baird is a legendary editor, and he has that reputation for good reason -- he's had a hand in some of the greatest movies of all time. But his two prior directorial efforts, Executive Decision and US Marshals, were complete disasters. He did, however, step in to do last-minute salvage jobs on Mission: Impossible 2 and Tomb Raider. (M:i2, in particular, was a complete loving mess, as John Woo's cut came in north of three hours long and made no sense whatsoever.) Because both of those movies made a metric poo poo-ton of money for Paramount, Baird was promised a flagship directing job. That turned out to be Nemesis.

Beachcomber posted:

I cannot loving stand the Sarah prophet. First, they stopped doing the prophet sequences the way they'd done them from the beginning, instead only featuring her.

Second...her...cadence, I guess?...was all off. Or maybe her voice just grated on me? She reminded me more than anything of going to see Shakespeare in the Park, The Tempest. This was a NYC Central Park production, so very good quality. Anyway, it was astounding, everyone was excellent, especially Prospero, except for Miranda. She just sounded...wrong the whole play.

Later, back at the hotel, I did some digging and found that the role of Miranda was being filled by a succession off underprivileged youth. I have nothing against this, the play was still one off the best I've ever seen, and its good to expose culture to places which might otherwise not get it, but that's the feeling Sisko's mom gives me. Untrained and slightly off.


If you're ever going to NYC in the summer, definitely see if you can get tickets to Shakespeare in the Park. We ate at a Michelin star restaurant, and saw The Book of Mormon, and I still think this was my favorite. Also you can rent RC sailboats. Do that too.