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Neurolimal posted:This is what I was thinking, but at the same time that russian email one absolutely stinks of the sourest of grapes clickhole is loving terrible dude its the exact same poo poo except with a thin veneer of ironic absurdism rather than a microscopic one
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Feb 23, 2017 18:38
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unpleasantly turgid posted:capitalism and society are separated in this discussion. you're putting humans back into the equation when the discussion is about capitalism itself. Capitalism does not make a society sexist-- the people that run that society do. I think that given that it operates inherently through exploitation of others, it breeds racism/sexist/whathaveyou because people create those ideas to justify their brutal exploitation of their fellow man. People didn't take slaves from Africa because they were super racists, they took slaves from Africa for free/cheap labor. The racism that justified those actions came later.
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Feb 23, 2017 18:39
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nigga crab pollock posted:yeah and the only reason the soviet union failed was because of inherent bias and cronyism if the system was functioning as inte*faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaart* sick, unrelated point. i'll make sure to scribble this down somewhere.
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Feb 23, 2017 18:39
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I'm glad Clinton is still crying. She rigged it all and still managed to lose, now she's complaining that everything was rigged. IIRC, a play straight out of the GOP handbook.
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Feb 23, 2017 18:40
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nigga crab pollock posted:clickhole is loving terrible dude its the exact same poo poo except with a thin veneer of ironic absurdism rather than a microscopic one Counterpoint: http://www.clickhole.com/article/heartwarming-when-steven-tyler-found-out-there-was-5625
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Feb 23, 2017 18:41
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phasmid posted:I'm glad Clinton is still crying. She rigged it all and still managed to lose, now she's complaining that everything was rigged. IIRC, a play straight out of the GOP handbook. its loving hilarious a shame the laughter is drowned out by the collective temper tantrum being thrown by everyone who put their eggs in the clinton basket
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Feb 23, 2017 18:42
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Neurolimal posted:Counterpoint: http://www.clickhole.com/article/heartwarming-when-steven-tyler-found-out-there-was-5625 Counterpoint: Michael Falk. nigga crab pollock posted:its loving hilarious a shame the laughter is drowned out by the collective temper tantrum being thrown by everyone who put their eggs in the clinton basket I think that makes it funnier, but I don't really talk to many diehard Clinton fans these days.
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Feb 23, 2017 18:42
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Moridin920 posted:I think that given that it operates inherently through exploitation of others, it breeds racism/sexist/whathaveyou because people create those ideas to justify their brutal exploitation of their fellow man. the human history you're citing as evidence is just that-- human history. The original assertion was that capitalism -- as a theory -- could not be applied in a society wherein gender equality was/is also desired. This assertion lies on the false premise that capitalism inherently prescribes violence, manipulation and exploitation of women. It doesn't. Humans create these techniques, however, to save on expenses, so you are right there. Capitalism creates a space to fill with harmful tactics that end up targeting one group in particular. The point of all this, is that your framework prescribes infinite counterfactuals that are also valid when interpreting the progression of a capitalist society in its social aspect(s); you may as well say that only white people, only asian people or a mix of any amount of races comprised the slave population during the period of the triangle trade. The theory of capitalism doesn't care who gets exploited. It doesn't target anyone in particular. You might say this is still a lovely society to live in, and I will wholeheartedly agree with you, but capitalism doesn't, by itself, favor any one race over the other on the basis of superficial factors such as race, gender, religion, etc. That was the argument. unpleasantly turgid fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 18:47
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unpleasantly turgid posted:The theory of capitalism doesn't care who gets exploited. It doesn't target anyone in particular. You might say this is still a lovely society to live in, and I will wholeheartedly agree with you, but capitalism doesn't, by itself, favor any one race over the other on the basis of superficial factors such as race, gender, religion, etc. That was the argument. Well it doesn't directly target anyone sure, I'm simply saying that it encourages behaviors that result in conditions that create racism and whatever. Thus true equality for all is not ultimately possible under this economic system. Wasn't the original argument "true equality is impossible under capitalism," not specifically "gender equality is impossible?" We might just be having two different arguments I think because otherwise I agree yeah it doesn't specifically target anyone and it isn't specifically geared against any particular gender in of itself.
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Feb 23, 2017 18:52
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A lot of excitable democrats on Facebook are posting "but her emails!", is this a strawman about how we're in the current mess because people couldn't let the emails story go? More importantly, will democrats learn a drat thing?
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Feb 23, 2017 18:53
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I think it's just bc a bunch of people were slamming her for the email thing which in retrospect is pretty lol considering Trump's handling of classified information so far.
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Feb 23, 2017 18:57
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Can mordy and turgid please shut the hell up about capitalism I just want to laugh into the liberal void OK?
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Feb 23, 2017 18:58
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Moridin920 posted:Well it doesn't directly target anyone sure, I'm simply saying that it encourages behaviors that result in conditions that create racism and whatever. Thus true equality is not ultimately possible under this economic system. If we're going to argue on the theoretical level that Capitalism as a theory does not inherently target individuals, then we're going to suppose that true equality is also possible in this world as there's no way to suppose any of the superficial factors that create the borders which define inequality. If we won't argue on that level, then yeah, capitalism probably encourages prejudice, but true equality isn't possible in this world anyway no matter the economic system so it's all just a moot point. Moridin920 posted:Wasn't the original argument "true equality is impossible under capitalism," not specifically "gender equality is impossible?" it was in the context of feminism and "corporate feminism". I assumed the poster was talking about gender equality. 
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Feb 23, 2017 19:00
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if a hillary supporter starts calling you a neonazi just give them a perfectly ripened avocado and they will leave you be
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Feb 23, 2017 19:01
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Toadvine posted:Can mordy and turgid please shut the hell up about capitalism I just want to laugh into the liberal void OK? sorry toad, i'll stop.
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Feb 23, 2017 19:01
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Kassoon posted:if a hillary supporter starts calling you a neonazi just give them a perfectly ripened avocado and they will leave you be If I spit poison in their face, will that yield the same result?
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Feb 23, 2017 19:05
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I saw this poor old woman slip and fall on election night. At least I think she was poor, she only had 227 electoral votes in her purse phasmid posted:If I spit poison in their face, will that yield the same result? Won't this kill you too?
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Feb 23, 2017 19:17
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Kassoon posted:if a hillary supporter starts calling you a neonazi just give them a perfectly ripened avocado and they will leave you be I cant find avocados, will a MAGA hat work
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Feb 23, 2017 19:18
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Kassoon posted:if a hillary supporter starts calling you a neonazi just give them a perfectly ripened avocado and they will leave you be Oddly enough the way to disperse hostile liberals is the same as dispersing hostile cops, which is to begin filming them
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Feb 23, 2017 19:24
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Neurolimal posted:Oddly enough the way to disperse hostile liberals is the same as dispersing hostile cops, which is to begin filming them military-grade pepperspray? no rubber bullets? no police decked out in riot-gear? no tear gas? ehh, maybe lovely camcorder? S C A T T E R
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Feb 23, 2017 19:28
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lol jfc one of the top images features robert downey jr in blackface which would probably get him blacklisted from movies today
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Feb 23, 2017 19:34
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Toadvine posted:Won't this kill you too? Chemistry is not my strong suit. Don't lord it over me.
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Feb 23, 2017 19:35
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hth posted:I cant find avocados, will a MAGA hat work 
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Feb 23, 2017 19:36
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unpleasantly turgid posted:sorry toad, i'll stop. Thank you I just want a liberal tears thread to mask my own liberal tears
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Feb 23, 2017 19:37
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Imagine spending tons of time and effort to try and convince the public that being lovely with the security of your emails is no big deal and then having to come back after the election and cry about foreign interference because someone hacked and revealed your emails.
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Feb 23, 2017 19:47
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unpleasantly turgid posted:This is objectively wrong. Capitalism is theoretical embodiment of forward-propagating efficiency and thrives off objective evaluations of its participants and their actual abilities regardless of the countenance that conceals them. Capitalism, as though it were a living entity, doesn't see its participants with the same subjective lens that a racist might see someone of another skin color or that a misogynist might see when looking at a woman, as that risks obstructive practice and, thus, is self-damaging; it follows that racism and misogyny are opponents to capitalism due to the fact that capitalism is fundamentally opposed to anything that might limit or obstruct itself, unfair biases that missplace and marginalize workers included. Your last sentence undid your entire post
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Feb 23, 2017 20:05
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Glenn Greenwald's latest piece about IF Stone's relevance to today's politics is pretty good: https://theintercept.com/2017/02/23/the-increasingly-unhinged-russia-rhetoric-comes-from-a-long-standing-u-s-playbook/quote:Two vital points stand out here: 1) the key to sustaining fears over a foreign adversary is depicting them as all-powerful and ubiquitous; and 2) once that image takes root, few will be willing to question the propaganda for fear of being accused of siding with the Foreign Evil: “the thesis no American dare any longer challenge without himself becoming suspect.”
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Feb 23, 2017 20:15
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Hill-dawg is poo poo and it's her fault that Trump is the president, but holy gently caress guys she had 3 million more votes in the primary than Bingo. Without straight up committing proper fraud (which there was no evidence of) no amount of DNC fuckery could account for that much of a margin.
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Feb 23, 2017 20:19
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DoctorStrangelove posted:Hill-dawg is poo poo and it's her fault that Trump is the president, but holy gently caress guys she had 3 million more votes in the primary than Bingo. Without straight up committing proper fraud (which there was no evidence of) no amount of DNC fuckery could account for that much of a margin. The very concept of superdelegates biases the entire thing though. It is shown that people are more likely to join the side they already perceive to be 'winning' because they don't want to be a loser - so when HRC starts a poo poo ton of delegates ahead then people are biased to vote for her vs other candidates. And she only had such massive delegate support because the Clintons have been running the DNC political machine for the last 15-20 years like their last name was Tweed. And there is straight up evidence of DNC leadership colluding against Sanders. I can cite you specific emails which show that if you like. That alone should be enough to trigger at the very least a re-examination of the DNC's process but instead nope because gently caress bernie bros. Then for the cherry on top remember that the Clintons have numerous ties to big media conglomerates (Chelsea sits on the board of one lol) which ran nonstop Bernie smear stories while fellating HRC. e: The fact that aside from Bernie deciding to run and shake things up they only had 1 other candidate running against HRC in the primary (a candidate that pretty much dropped out immediately and seemed to only be there in the first place to not make it TOO obvious) means they had already decided it was her turn to be the nominee imo. No one even ran against her, that's how foregone conclusion it was. Without Bernie there wouldn't even have been more than one debate or anything, she would have just taken her victory lap around the caucuses. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 20:21
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Superdelegates being able to pledge before the vote meant that despite those votes not actually being real, the media frequently counted that lead. It made her leads artifiicially large in the beginning and thus compeltely hosed with voting behavior especially in bigger states and there were frequent accounts of voter fraud some caught on tape of Hillary supporters trying to run away from caucus sites with official tallies but it was always dismissed for retarded reasons. There was clearly fuckery in arizona too, iirc even confirmed. It happened in many states like new york and California but they got caught in arizona purging new democrat affiliation registration (aka 99% new voters and new democrats... Aka young people and independents.. aka bernie supporters) There was totally spme shady poo poo from the morally wrong to the possibly illegal going on and if you cant accept that then you're delusional. That poo poo happened. And its why hillary lost.
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Feb 23, 2017 20:45
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basic hitler posted:Superdelegates being able to pledge before the vote meant that despite those votes not actually being real, the media frequently counted that lead. It made her leads artifiicially large in the beginning and thus compeltely hosed with voting behavior especially in bigger states and there were frequent accounts of voter fraud some caught on tape of Hillary supporters trying to run away from caucus sites with official tallies but it was always dismissed for retarded reasons. There was clearly fuckery in arizona too, iirc even confirmed. It happened in many states like new york and California but they got caught in arizona purging new democrat affiliation registration (aka 99% new voters and new democrats... Aka young people and independents.. aka bernie supporters) Exactly. Hell the night before CA was supposed to vote some reporter badgered an undecided superdelegate into going "fine I'm voting for Hillary" and then that 1 vote was the "clincher" HRC needed and thus every single news outlet ran the story of "HRC ALREADY WON BEFORE CA HAS VOTED" like cool fuckers.
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Feb 23, 2017 20:47
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Also they ran the embodiment of the correctly reviled establishment politician because it was Her Turn while the electorate loving hates the establishment. Fuckem I'm glad they lost.
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Feb 23, 2017 20:48
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Moridin920 posted:Exactly. Those kinds of overt media biasses don't affect voters though !!!
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Feb 23, 2017 20:49
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Moridin920 posted:Exactly. The AP emailed the DNC for permission to run that story and the DNC told them to run with it.
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Feb 23, 2017 21:02
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Moridin920 posted:I think it's just bc a bunch of people were slamming her for the email thing which in retrospect is pretty lol considering Trump's handling of classified information so far. theres a whole lot more than mishandling classified information in hillarys emails like it pretty much confirms a lot of poo poo people handwave away as being conspiracy theories except its in her loving emails
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Feb 23, 2017 21:16
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Hillary might have ran the worst campaign in history. I mean... she lost to Donald loving Trump. The major selling point of her campaign was that "hey at least I'm not Donald Trump." Also "Well, wouldn't it be a nice symbolic victory to have a woman president?" and "She's been around for a long time so she deserves to be president. It's her turn." I'm sorry, that is not good enough. As a political candidate, you have to make me want to vote for you, not spend your whole campaign telling us that we shouldn't vote for the other guy. And hey, that actually kind of worked! I'm sure Hillary's campaign convinced a lot of people not to vote for Trump. Except... it didn't actually convince anyone to vote for Hillary. People just didn't go to the polls. Oops. For a long time the Democrats have simply settled for being the lesser of two evils and coasted by on that because they were the only other choice. The thing is, if you're less lovely than the other guy, you're still a poo poo sandwich and people get tired of eating poo poo all the time.
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Feb 23, 2017 21:17
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Toadvine posted:A lot of excitable democrats on Facebook are posting "but her emails!", is this a strawman about how we're in the current mess because people couldn't let the emails story go? But all those illegal things she did and her abuse of power!  Cmon guys, at least she isn't TRUMP!
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Feb 23, 2017 21:18
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Moridin920 posted:Exactly. Ooh I remember getting so steamed over this one. I don't want to think about how many Californians stayed home on primary day because the winner was already announced
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Feb 23, 2017 21:26
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new phone who dis posted:The AP emailed the DNC for permission to run that story and the DNC told them to run with it. email leaks show the hillary campaign openly talking about placing stories at the AP trying to spin public opinion on how hillary didn't delete state department emails https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/9272 posted:[The State Department] are considering placing a story with a friendly at the AP (Matt Lee or Bradley Klapper), that would lay this out before the majority on the committee has a chance to realize what they have and distort it. lol
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Feb 23, 2017 21:32
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drat those news hyenas, reporting stuff to the public n poo poo lol
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Feb 23, 2017 21:33
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