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JawnV6 posted:Why does Rose call her white-assimilated ex-boyfriend who aspired to be their gardener Grandpa? As the father explained earlier in the film, the family kept Walter and Georgina around after the actual grandparents died, to fill the void. Walter thus became Rose's surrogate grandpa. (In other words, incest subtext.)
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Mar 19, 2017 18:52
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Vegetable posted:This movie is a thing of marvel for making people cheer for a TSA agent I'm 100% sure this was an intentional choice for the character. A lot of low level government positions like TSA, DMV, USPS, etc are filled by black people at higher rates than in the public sector and they offer good wages, job security and health/pension benefits for people of color. They also carry a small amount of bureaucratic authority and this makes white people very very angry. Its awesome that Peele was able to put the TSA in a positive light since a lot of the hate that the TSA gets is, at the very least, exacerbated by racist undertones. SuperMechagodzilla posted:As the father explained earlier in the film, the family kept Walter and Georgina around after the actual grandparents died, to fill the void. Walter thus became Rose's surrogate grandpa. OK so you're back to the "it was actually all in the protaganist's mind  " fan theory bullshit.
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Mar 19, 2017 19:45
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Chris -- who delivers an offscreen soliloquy about how he wishes he could be as black as Trayvon Martin, check the script -- expresses his internalized racism through classist reactions to Walter and Georgina by being unnerved by their "odd" (read: working class) behavior. Meanwhile, the well-meaning white folks have welcomed the black working class into their home and treated them as family, even calling them grandpa and grandma. They try to help Chris, but he has been brainwashed by liberalism. Chris, by focusing on race (which is not real), is a class traitor. The postracial white family, however, threw distracting identity politics to the side and emerged as the modern vanguard of class consciousness. Had Chris not gone on a murderous rampage, the white family would have soon ushered in communism. The original script has the father putting his arm on Chris and asking, "Bro, do you even read Hegel?"
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Mar 19, 2017 19:58
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800peepee51doodoo posted:I'm 100% sure this was an intentional choice for the character. A lot of low level government positions like TSA, DMV, USPS, etc are filled by black people at higher rates than in the public sector and they offer good wages, job security and health/pension benefits for people of color. They also carry a small amount of bureaucratic authority and this makes white people very very angry. Its awesome that Peele was able to put the TSA in a positive light since a lot of the hate that the TSA gets is, at the very least, exacerbated by racist undertones. All the ire at damaging policies has been laid at the feet of the TSA, when as recent events prove, apparently other three letter agencies that operate out of the airport couldn't wait to get in on the action. TSA are much more likely to just follow stupid directives for fear of losing a good job. DHS, on the other hand, is exclusively staffed by Dennis Rader types who get off on snatching people out of lines to pretend they're in an episode of 24. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Mar 19, 2017 |
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Mar 19, 2017 20:02
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800peepee51doodoo posted:OK so you're back to the "it was actually all in the protaganist's mind No; Rose literally slept with Walter because he was a professional runner, like her grandpa was. It was literally a way for her to keep her grandpa alive.
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Mar 19, 2017 21:07
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:No; Rose literally slept with Walter because he was a professional runner, like her grandpa was. It was literally a way for her to keep her grandpa alive. By scooping out his brain and surgically implanting her grandfather's brain, literally transferring his personality into Walter's body. If you are saying that this did not happen and that it is the delusional perception of Chris, then you are literally saying "its all in his mind, maaaaan" and flying off into idiot fan theory nonsense. That's the most boring analysis possible. It also necessarily removes the culpability from the racist white families that are literally objectifying black bodies which is why people are, correctly, calling you out for your racist reading of the film. If, as you say, Rose is just loving the hired help and the white people are simply awkward at parties and not actually melon balling black people's skulls then the only possible interpretation for Chris killing them all is sean10mm posted:SMG: The white people were the real victims in Get Out!
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Mar 19, 2017 22:07
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I usually like SMG's goofy analyses but this one is especially awful
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Mar 19, 2017 22:37
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800peepee51doodoo posted:By scooping out his brain and surgically implanting her grandfather's brain, literally transferring his personality into Walter's body. If you are saying that this did not happen and that it is the delusional perception of Chris, then you are literally saying "its all in his mind, maaaaan" and flying off into idiot fan theory nonsense. That's the most boring analysis possible. No; it is not all in Chris' mind. The Rod character perceives events in roughly the same way, although he sees a mind-control sex cult - not a body-snatching immortality cult. So it's in multiple characters' minds, and they all disagree in subtle (and no-so-subtle) ways. Are you familiar with Rashomon? The vital fact is that no two characters perceive the events in the same way - not even Chris and Rod. It's like the gulf between 9/11 Truthers who believe the the government used cruise missiles disguised as planes vs. 9/11 Truthers who believe the government used real planes supplemented by thermite charges planted inside the buildings. These theories are reality for millions of people. But all these 9/11 Truthers struggle with the actual truth that the US government was somewhat responsible for the attacks, but unintentionally. There was no illuminati/reptilian plot. The attacks happened not because the government controlled everything, but precisely because they were not in control. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Mar 19, 2017 |
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Mar 19, 2017 22:54
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800peepee51doodoo posted:It also necessarily removes the culpability from the racist white families that are literally objectifying black bodies which is why people are, correctly, calling you out for your racist reading of the film. I think SMG has found a weird way to say "movies use metaphors" that just triggers people hard. It's his teacup.
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Mar 19, 2017 23:56
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Martman posted:If the movie has anything meaningful to say about racism, shouldn't that message be true without needing to rely on the literal truth of brain-stealing (something that doesn't actually go on in the real world)? It should, and, as someone who enjoyed the movie, I believe it does.
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Mar 20, 2017 00:04
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Criminal Minded posted:I mean, once you travel down this road, you have to contend with the facts that: there is no person named Chris, he has no girlfriend, they don't visit her family, etc. Worth repeating...
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Mar 20, 2017 00:52
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Martman posted:If the movie has anything meaningful to say about racism, shouldn't that message be true without needing to rely on the literal truth of brain-stealing (something that doesn't actually go on in the real world)? Absolutely. Otherwise, you can reach a strange conclusion, like "black men shouldn't date white women".
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Mar 20, 2017 00:59
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Martman posted:I think SMG has found a weird way to say "movies use metaphors" that just triggers people hard. It's his teacup. It's even more basic than that: People use metaphors. Chris and Rod (and all the other characters) think metaphorically. This is why Rose calls her ex-boyfriend '(grand)daddy'. As someone pointed out earlier, Rod blatently uses his semi-serious jokes about 'white lady sex cults' to express his jealousy over Chris' relationship. He legitimately fears that Chris will choose Rose over bros, and stop hanging out with him - so Rod's subtly trying to sabotage things with his comments. And the thing is that he's not even entirely conscious of what he's doing. Rid really does believes in illuminati sex cults - but this belief came from somewhere. Rose is, likewise, not entirely conscious of the fact that her fetish for black men is just a 'safe' expression of her more taboo fantasy of loving her family members (that's the dark twist on the phrase "black people are like family to us"). But to Chris and Rod, of course, Rose doesn't even have a fetish. They perceive her as an asexual, insectile predator with no personality of her own, whose only motivation is to ensnare men with 'marketable' body types. (Yes, they're a bit misogynistic.) So when Rose accuses Rod of trying to seduce her, we can safely say she actually believes it. She's simply mistaken Rod's desire for Chris as a desire for her. But, because Rod is a misogynist, he perceives Rose as this calculating bitch mastermind. This is not a flaw in the movie; they've done a good job creating these deep, layered characters with complex interrelationships. The problem is that this complexity doesn't translate into any political - antiracist - point. People just double down on their prexisting beliefs, and you end up with the claims ITT that a disbelief in chemtrails is racist.
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Mar 20, 2017 01:19
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Martman posted:If the movie has anything meaningful to say about racism, shouldn't that message be true without needing to rely on the literal truth of brain-stealing (something that doesn't actually go on in the real world)? Well, I'm not sure that it can say anything meaningful about racism if the white people aren't doing something nefarious because the alternative is that some black guy flipped out and murdered a family because he felt uncomfortable at a party. Then the message is that racism isn't really that bad and black people should just get over it I guess? Like, what does the film have to say if its just some well meaning white people saying unintentionally lovely things to black people? That that's a thing? Great, every black person already knew that, what a wonderfully pointless sentiment. The entire theme of the film hinges on the objectification of blackness to the point that the white people want to become black people, or rather the idea of black people. If you remove the literal horror element, there really isn't much of that theme left. Now, there is some really interesting analysis that can come out of this concept of the objectification of blackness, including how Chris and Rod engage with it, but it operates on the level of metaphor and subtext. Could the film be done in such a way so that Stephen Root isn't literally trying to steal his black man's eyes but instead is trying to co-opt Chris's artistic vision, a vision informed by his race and background? Sure, Peele could have made that point more subtly if he had chosen to make this something other than a genre flick. I would contend the point is made more forcefully because of the actuality of the horror, though. Not only does Root's character not realize that he can't just emulate the black experience to get what he wants, he thinks he can reach out and physically take it. I'm not sure how you could articulate that in the film if the events are suspect. Martman posted:I think SMG has found a weird way to say "movies use metaphors" that just triggers people hard. It's his teacup. I had originally typed up something to this affect but erased it because I don't actually see anything in their posting that makes me think this is the case. SMG seems pretty invested in the idea that subjective interpretation is actually objective fact
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Mar 20, 2017 02:26
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800peepee51doodoo posted:Well, I'm not sure that it can say anything meaningful about racism if the white people aren't doing something nefarious because the alternative is that some black guy flipped out and murdered a family because he felt uncomfortable at a party. The true horror is exactly that: that racism has caused Chris to lose his sanity. The horror is that the true threat is so pervasive, so monolithic, that he can only lash out at bad targets. The horror is that, if the film is accepted uncritically, - as Hundu notes - it is strongly against race-mixing.
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Mar 20, 2017 04:09
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ungulateman posted:having your brain pulled out and replaced with an old white dude's is a metaphor for supporting capitalism, so i suspect SMG is anti-brain removal Maybe it's a commie's brain.
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Mar 20, 2017 04:20
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Escobarbarian posted:I usually like SMG's goofy analyses but this one is especially awful The events of the movie being all in his head would have been the lamest cop out ending so of course there are goons who latch on to it.
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Mar 20, 2017 05:27
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Maybe it was just an excellent tongue and cheek horror film that high-lighted awkward poo poo black people may actually hear, "If you really pushed your self, you would be a beast."
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Mar 20, 2017 06:17
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So in this SMG hypnotism-makes-subtext-into-hallucinations world, what does the doctor performing brain surgery while Chris is tied to a chair represent
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Mar 20, 2017 06:21
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The true horror is that there is no conspiracy. These bad people that Chris killed genuinely cared about him. They wanted to be his friend. Things you do to your friends: 1. Sell their bodies to the highest bidder 2. Remove their brains Checks out Also: In the beginning of the film, the brother abducts the guy who eventually tells Chris to GET OUT. That scene and its events happens outside of Chris' personal narrative and purview. It's not part of his delusion or whatever. It happened. Bill Dungsroman fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Mar 20, 2017 |
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Mar 20, 2017 08:02
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 Are you for real? Yes, the theme of the movie is quite explicitly what it feels like to be on the receiving end of majority-white spaces' self-congratulatory ineptitude at welcoming and tolerating minorities (wokeness). Jordan Peele is saying that the subjective experience of being marginalized is akin to having a conspiracy arrayed against you and that white liberal mainstream lauding of individual talented minorities while ignoring real racial disparity is akin to hollowing those people out and using them as flesh-puppets in service of their own egos. The horror elements are employed to convey that subjective experience to an audience that normally would be totally oblivious to minority perspectives by heightening everything and making it viscerally grabbing. Like, this is really basic horror 101 and Peele directly confirms it in his statements about the movie  https://twitter.com/JordanPeele/status/842541070151897088 https://twitter.com/JordanPeele/status/842589407521595393 Unless you really think the movie wasn't made with any thematic point or intentionality beyond getting gore on the screen?
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Mar 20, 2017 10:46
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SMG takes Death of the Author to a whole new level. He basically decapitated the Author.
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Mar 20, 2017 13:54
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Coagula of the Author
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Mar 20, 2017 13:57
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It is refreshing to see a horror movie where the plot isn't moved by the main character's stupidity, and even more-so that they don't have a cheap shock ending with Chris dying at the end. I really hate the "End .. or is it?" cliche where it turns out the evil dude is still out there, as if to set up a sequel with the exact same plot which has been mocked by MST3K two decades ago. It's the same skull-loving nonsense as people insist the entire movie/game/show was all a dream.
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Mar 20, 2017 14:16
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Bill Dungsroman posted:Things you do to your friends: Racism is an ideology. It is not caused by demonic subhumans who murder for fun. That's a fantasy. Nice people perpetuate racism. The opening scene sets the psychological groundwork for the film. It establishes Chris' anxiety: "do they know I'm black?" He fears being chased out of the neighbourhood by orthodox klan-style racists. That's a twist. The title has a double-meaning, as highlighted by the deliberately-misleading billboard ads.  The entire point of the film is that Chris actually does belong in the neighborhood, welcomed by the racists with open arms. They welcome him into their home, give him approval to date their daughter, and offer him a job. His black friends are the ones who tell him to resist temptation and get out. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Mar 20, 2017 |
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Mar 20, 2017 16:37
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They welcome him as bait and consistently use backhanded compliments to degrade and dehumanize him without even fully realizing it. You don't have to be a minority to know something like that.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:45
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If you believe that you can't be racist because you're a nice person, then you are the target of the movie's satire. If you saw the movie and still don't realize this, that's a clear indication that the movie has failed in some way.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:52
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Annointed posted:They welcome him as bait and consistently use backhanded compliments to degrade and dehumanize him without even fully realizing it. You don't have to be a minority to know something like that. Yes, they want to degrade him in order to literally make him like them. That's what's meant by "belonging in this neighborhood". Not that "black people shouldn't socialize with white people". This is also why John Nada wants Frank Armitage to put on the glasses. He doesn't have a vocabulary to describe what Frank Armitage likely already knows. (In the short story They Live is based on, it's literally a botched hypnotic trigger that wakes John Nada up.)The trauma of seeing for the first time is compensated for with with a totally fleshed out, internally consistent conspiracy theory. This isn't a plot description of what happens in the film, this is describing the experience of the POV character. This is also crucial to the sister films about resistance to assimilatory elitism, Rosemary's Baby, The Stepford Wives, They Live, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, etc.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:56
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Tales From The Hood isn't on that list, as it's a much more radical movie, but still.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:59
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Racism is an ideology. It is not caused by demonic subhumans who murder for fun. That's a fantasy. Nice people perpetuate racism. But that isn't Chris. It's the other guy. SuperMechagodzilla posted:That's a twist. The title has a double-meaning, as highlighted by the deliberately-misleading billboard ads. He doesn't, though. Not him. Just his body to be sold and stolen from him. He is no more welcome in their home than an appliance. He does not have approval to date their daughter, she is a honeypot. He is never offered a job. His black friend helps save his life.
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Mar 20, 2017 17:10
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If this is all a made-up conspiracy taking place inside Chris' head, what do you make of the scene where he is literally strapped to a chair while the antagonists explain their literal evil plan to him? Was he actually down there for a game of Foosball?
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Mar 20, 2017 17:21
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Bill Dungsroman posted:But that isn't Chris. It's the other guy. You're getting confused. "It's all real" vs "it's all in his head" is a pseudodebate invented by people who aren't reading carefully. My point is neither of those things. My point is that it's all in a movie. In the movie, the opening scene sets the tone. Then you get a short opening credits sequence, and then we go to a scene of Chris feeling anxious. The formal qualities of the film - in this case, the editing - link these two scenes. We in the audience are put in suspense by the opening scene, so that we feel Chris's suspense about meeting the parents. In the later scene, Andre stands for Chris' fear of what marriage will do to him. The Andre's character's entire role in the film is be this sort of urban legend that haunts Chris. "Did you hear about what happened to Andre? He was walking through the suburbs and some Klansman grabbed him." "Did you hear about what happened to Andre? He married a white lady and now he acts like a zombie." The message to Chris is consistently "don't be like Andre". Andre himself is less a fully-fledged character than he is Goofus-like negative example, a Wile E. Coyote surviving endless mishaps.
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Mar 20, 2017 17:34
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The scene at the beginning when Andre got abducted is a representation of his bachelor party.
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Mar 20, 2017 17:37
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I dunno, I think it's pretty disingenuous to claim an incest subtext 20 posts in that was wholly missing before. SMG, why did you hide this revelation from us for a week? Why wasn't that critical element explored in your first posts on the film? Are there any other thematic elements you're hiding from us? Now I'm wondering how many more jokes I foolishly laughed at. I thought Peele was a funny guy, but "He almost got over it" isn't humorous at all, it's a dry description of one man's struggle with race issues that he never conquered. And Rod's attempt to record his phone call with Rose, which I thought she had cleverly figured out and immediately switched to a script that wouldn't incriminate her and pinned all blame on Rod, is similarly sucked dry of any comedy.
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Mar 20, 2017 17:47
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Yes, they want to degrade him in order to literally make him like them. That's what's meant by "belonging in this neighborhood". Not that "black people shouldn't socialize with white people". This is also why John Nada wants Frank Armitage to put on the glasses. He doesn't have a vocabulary to describe what Frank Armitage likely already knows. (In the short story They Live is based on, it's literally a botched hypnotic trigger that wakes John Nada up.)The trauma of seeing for the first time is compensated for with with a totally fleshed out, internally consistent conspiracy theory. The 'Burbs
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Mar 20, 2017 17:51
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Hell yeah The Burbs.
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Mar 20, 2017 17:53
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UFOTofuTacoCat posted:The scene at the beginning when Andre got abducted is a representation of his bachelor party. The scene at the beginning with Andre is overt evidence that the white devils don't need elaborate, fake-romantic melodramas in order to abduct black people. There doesn't need to be this 'silent auction,' they don't need Grandma and Grandpa playing along and 'making it real,' they could have just been told to hide and immediately drugged his wine. The narrative of the film is a unique expression of Chris's particular confrontation with the shared experience of white supremacy and classism, but which is explicitly anti-rational. This is the whole point of the 'T.V. imagery' - Chris, rooted in a deeply traumatic moment of his development, perceives the events of the film as an all too deliberately overt artifice, a narrative which is preventing him from performing some obscure act, which, in the end of the film, proves to be, like, exactly as reactionary as Django Unchained.
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Mar 20, 2017 18:04
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Chris doesn't get weirded out by the "other" black people because they're working class; he gets weirded out because, when not around white people, and speaking to another black person, they don't drop the charade that black people put up to fit into white society. Instead, they continue to act exactly the same. It is so normal for many black people to lose inflections, change body language and handshakes, etc. around white people that they don't even recognize it, which almost immediately drops when around another black person. It's easy to forget that a lot of non black people have absolutely no knowledge of this, which provides an interesting interpretation people have of Chris being weirded out at the party. TSA guy was jokingly worried about Chris losing his "blackness" (that he still has), and the black people Chris met were examples of people who really did lose their blackness (because they had white brains), and what was feared to become.
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Mar 20, 2017 18:11
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HellCopter posted:If this is all a made-up conspiracy taking place inside Chris' head, what do you make of the scene where he is literally strapped to a chair while the antagonists explain their literal evil plan to him? 1) The conspiracy is not all in Chris' head. It's in Chris', Rod's head, and your head. 2) Rose explains what happened, from her perspective: Chris got all paranoid and stormed out of the house. Rod believes she's lying, but that is only his perspective. The Basement is literally the same as The Sunken Place. Chris is trapped, motionless, staring at a tiny screen. Like The Sunken Place, the Basement is subjectively real, but not objectively real. It's alien abduction imagery, satanic panic imagery. The ending of the film is literally Chris breaking out of the Sunken Place - which is not an objectively-real place, but a state of mind. It's his rebirth as a conspiracy theorist.
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Mar 20, 2017 18:19
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The horror is that, if the film is accepted uncritically, - as Hundu notes - it is strongly against race-mixing. You're gonna have to derive that equation, professor. I assumed Hundu was making some sort of a joke because that poo poo makes absolutely no sense
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Mar 20, 2017 18:21
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