|
HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:This is actually a quick aside in The Invisibles. I don't love The Invisibles as a whole but I think it's the most creative and far ranging comic work since maybe the Fourth World. Or Cerebus, but then the publication of Cerebus pre and post dates The Invisibles.
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2017 00:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 21:38 |
|
|
It's really rewarding to go in and bite chunks out of it once in a while.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2017 00:46
|
|
|
HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:It's really rewarding to go in and bite chunks out of it once in a while. Yeah not to be that guy with the same old monster of the week is better than mythology poo poo but a lot of the asides are really fantastic on their own. A lot of it is very of a piece with Flex, though sadly no artist apart from Quitely ever put Quitely level work into The Invisibles.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2017 00:51
|
|
|
HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:This is actually a quick aside in The Invisibles. I haven't read that, but it makes sense that someone would have done it. I just don't think Get Out is doing it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2017 01:03
|
|
|
Simplex posted:If we are talking about African-American culture specifically, then yes skin color is a pretty important component of it. With culture in general, sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Germany and Ireland are both predominantly white countries, but nobody is going to confuse German or Irish cultures, or not see distinct differences because of that. Similarly, African-American culture has very little in common with Congolese culture. dude..................................
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2017 01:48
|
|
|
Sir Kodiak posted:Like, to use your example, if Logan was trying to sell "intellectual hip hop," and wanted to be black in order to make it seem more authentic, I'd see it. You could totally make that movie, white people stealing black bodies so that they could say the n-word. This movie is so clearly not that, that I don't know why you'd want to torture the idea of what's essential to a culture just to make the movie about cultural appropriation. I mean, I get why Escobarbarian did it, he was just making GBS threads out a quick post because someone pointed out that all he'd done in this thread is comment about the posting style of one specific other poster. But I don't see the reading of the film that's actually going somewhere with this idea. I'm think we are arguing past each other a little bit here. A musician in the movie would have no desire to make authentic hip-hop. They don't care for authentic hip-hop. They would just want a black body so they could go make some intellectual hip-hop about the Dow Jones or retirement pension funds, or whatever it is that old-white people theoretically would rap about.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2017 02:09
|
|
|
Im genuinely confused now
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2017 02:15
|
|
|
Simplex posted:I'm think we are arguing past each other a little bit here. A musician in the movie would have no desire to make authentic hip-hop. They don't care for authentic hip-hop. They would just want a black body so they could go make some intellectual hip-hop about the Dow Jones or retirement pension funds, or whatever it is that old-white people theoretically would rap about. What character in the movie do you believe is interested in making hip-hop about the Dow Jones, or retirement pension funds, or whatever, and what in the movie led you to believe that? Because I don't see it at all.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2017 02:17
|
|
|
Holy poo poo this thread rules
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2017 02:23
|
|
|
Sir Kodiak posted:What character in the movie do you believe is interested in making hip-hop about the Dow Jones, or retirement pension funds, or whatever, and what in the movie led you to believe that? Because I don't see it at all. How about the blind art dealer who wants to see pictures with "soul" or whatever
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2017 02:33
|
|
|
Unoriginal Name posted:How about the blind art dealer who wants to see pictures with "soul" or whatever That was the bit that stood out to me most, which goes with the air of "selling out" his blackness (see again, his Starbucksy apartment).
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2017 02:42
|
|
|
Unoriginal Name posted:How about the blind art dealer who wants to see pictures with "soul" or whatever It is the case that he (Stephen Root) and the father (Bradley Whitford) appreciate the implications of using black bodies for the project. But instead of trying to engage in stereotypical black behavior, they fit into the more enlightened-liberal idea that once a black person reaches a certain level of success (e.g., Barack Obama, Tiger Woods, Jordan Peele), the status of being a "successful African American" is a positive. But is that co-opting black culture, given how much those sorts of figures are accused of acting white? (Note, Peele made a whole other movie about "acting white") And further, these are the white characters. The black-body/white-brain characters don't get into this.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2017 02:50
|
|
|
To add something to the conversation, there's one thread I haven't seen really explored in the critique that positions the body-snatching conspiracy as a literalization of Chris's anxiety about more broadly engaging with white society. Namely, Stephen Root's looking to specifically snatch Chris's body for what he claims are colorblind reasons having to do with Chris's creative talents. Leaving aside the more nuanced ways in which that set of claims is ridiculous and racist - Chris's photography is heavily informed by his own attempts at conveying and essentializing his black experience, and Root's not really going to be able to access any of that in a meaningful way - there's the much more obvious stumbling block: why the gently caress do you think his talents as a photographer are situated in his eyes rather than in his brain? Following through on the idea that Chris's nightmare weekend is about literalizing the anxiety he feels when encountering such a sheer wave of liberally-minded racism, this is Chris's fear that his apparent acceptance into this white cultural context is for the wrong reasons, that the things he's being praised for are inflected with condescension and dismissal. This poo poo happens all the time when racist white people try to explain what's admirable about specific black people, in a way that Peele is intensely familiar with and has already mocked at length in a sketch from Key and Peele where a Sportscenter guy talks about how Super Bowl 49 is a clash between Brady the strategic titan and Sherman is a physical specimen. Any compliment paid to you isn't really about you, it's about something that can be distanced enough from you-as-a-person that you're still not really afforded any real respect. If there's a black student who's doing a lot better than Jeremy in med school, it's probably down to their Gifted Hands, and so on And the thing I've enjoyed most reading about this specific critique is that it actively makes Chris a more sympathetic and interesting character - as others have pointed out, he doesn't really do anything in the plot of the movie up until the finale, just sorta standing around looking ill at ease while Rod spouts off the more overt conspiracy poo poo. But seeing the events of the movie as reflections of the ways that he specifically (you can bet that Rod's version of a similar weekend would be much more laced with sexual anxieties) has been bombarded with interpersonal and institutional racism means that pretty much anything any of the white characters do is implicit characterization for our protagonist. That's a really efficient and clever narrative construction! I should note as well that for those who don't subscribe to that particular ideological critique of the movie, there's still something in this post for you! Read literally, the body snatchers' view of Chris's talents as physical rather than mental or creative means they are even more racist, and thus more evil villains. That is good
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2017 02:52
|
|
|
Yeah, that's why I laughed when he said "I want your eyes", as if there's something inherent about his African Eyeballs that's more receptive the concept of "soul" (and they're Activated Eyeballs, too - he could've taken any black guy's eyes but this one's learned a trick).
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2017 03:01
|
|
|
Anyone care to explain how Chris's photography is "black" and his apartment is "not black"?
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2017 03:10
|
|
|
Artists who're non-normative tend to have their work viewed through the lens of their most notable aberration (black, disabled, gay, etc), and it's literally a blind guy telling him "your work has soul". His apartment is basically just missing a barista, it's gentrification in architectural form. It could just be a cheap movie location but it's the picture of ladder-climbing, non-threatening conformity.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2017 03:27
|
|
|
i am the bird posted:Anyone care to explain how Chris's photography is "black" and his apartment is "not black"? quote:Daylight, I wake up feeling like you won't play right As far as I remember, there's only two songs in the film and they're played consecutively right in the beginning, with "Redbone" in the apartment. I think the themes of the song parallels that of the movie, and I think if you're gonna dissect the apartment opening you've got to include the song in that. I don't have any analysis of my own right now to offer, cause I need to see the movie again, plus I'm at work right now and can't really delve into it. Lil Mama Im Sorry fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Mar 24, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2017 12:53
|
|
|
Magic Hate Ball posted:Yeah, that's why I laughed when he said "I want your eyes", as if there's something inherent about his African Eyeballs that's more receptive the concept of "soul" (and they're Activated Eyeballs, too - he could've taken any black guy's eyes but this one's learned a trick). Not 'eyes' - eye. Root doesn't want mere eye surgery. Blindness hasn't really held him back in life, you may have noticed. He wants the soul itself - literally, to have a little black guy (trapped as a disembodied gaze) inside him. Steve2911 posted:Grandma and grandpa weren't actually presented as themselves for the majority of the movie though. They were put in a certain role for Chris' benefit. Why would they pretend to be abused servants and not, say, neighbours? Friends from out of town? It should be repeated: there is only what is on the screen. The grand-servants do not act completely differently offscreen, because they have no offscreen existence. The family are 'being themselves'.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2017 17:39
|
|
|
It's weird as hell that Grandma and Grandpa would decide to be servants for the weekend instead of like, go to a bed and breakfast or something.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2017 17:55
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Not 'eyes' - eye. Root doesn't want mere eye surgery. Blindness hasn't really held him back in life, you may have noticed. He wants the soul itself - literally, to have a little black guy (trapped as a disembodied gaze) inside him. I understand that, my statement is from his misguided point of view. I can't remember if he said "eye" or "eyes" on the videodronicator but the point is the same either way.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2017 18:50
|
|
|
Magic Hate Ball posted:I understand that, my statement is from his misguided point of view. I can't remember if he said "eye" or "eyes" on the videodronicator but the point is the same either way. Not exactly the same. All the other party guests want exotic black bodies, and consider the lingering consciousness 'trapped in the sunken place' an unfortunate side-effect. Root is the polar opposite: he wants these authentic feelings that briefly rise to the surface like Georgina's tears. He wants Walter's anger, Andre's terror, and Chris' despair. This is why Root is one of the only white liberals in the film. The trick is that both liberal Chris and the liberal film itself agree with Root completely: Georgina is depicted exclusively as a black servant in distress, but the ideology of the film must separate her into good and evil 'halves' that are also black and white, authentic and inauthentic, cool and lame, real and fake, etc. It is extremely difficult to overcome these false binaries and understand Georgina as simultaneously an abused white grandmother and a miserable black servant. These two identities are united by class. In other words, Root always unconsciously wished for his own destruction. He would be very happy to see this explosion of black rage burning down the house. It's so authentic! Chris is giving these liberal characters exactly what they want - turning into a real beast, as the kid put it. Their violent deaths are the fantasy of the white liberal audience. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Mar 24, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2017 19:24
|
|
|
Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:It's weird as hell that Grandma and Grandpa would decide to be servants for the weekend instead of like, go to a bed and breakfast or something. They love serving the family, and their new bodies let them do it! And it seems that these "weekends" happen every 4 months (which is how long Chris & Rose have dated.)
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2017 01:30
|
|
|
Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:It's weird as hell that Grandma and Grandpa would decide to be servants for the weekend instead of like, go to a bed and breakfast or something. Deeply ingrained racism? I mean, what else would black people be doing
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2017 03:52
|
|
|
Unoriginal Name posted:Deeply ingrained racism? I mean, what else would black people be doing I don't think that meshes with the logic of the film, I mean the one lady's married to Logan so its not like it would've been out of the ordinary for them to show up as guests at the party & then they could hang out with the ppl @ their party instead of having 2 serve them the whole time.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2017 03:54
|
|
|
Hat Thoughts posted:I don't think that meshes with the logic of the film, I mean the one lady's married to Logan so its not like it would've been out of the ordinary for them to show up as guests at the party & then they could hang out with the ppl @ their party instead of having 2 serve them the whole time. Yeah if you insist on viewing it literally then it's just idiotic.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2017 04:14
|
|
|
Ya I'm just repeating whats already been said but there's a million alternatives, they could be "old family friends who are staying over for the weekend" or whatever, they're not trying to make Chris uncomfortable or something they're trying to do the opposite & keep him there (and, as mentioned, Dean's aware that it might make Chris uncomfortable with the "I know how this looks" line).
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2017 04:35
|
|
|
Ah Chris, great to meet you man. I'm Dean, this is Missy, and these are [pause for effect here] my black friends,
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2017 04:36
|
|
|
As someone who lives off and on with grandparents they actually do tend to enjoy doing menial tasks like serving food and gardening, because it gives them something to do that isn't sitting around doing nothing. My grandfather for example refuses to hire a gardener because he can do it himself in the same time and he enjoys the work, my grandmother will take any excuse possible to cook and serve food to people.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2017 05:35
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:As someone who lives off and on with grandparents they actually do tend to enjoy doing menial tasks like serving food and gardening, because it gives them something to do that isn't sitting around doing nothing. The Visit has a fantastic take on this.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2017 13:34
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:As someone who lives off and on with grandparents they actually do tend to enjoy doing menial tasks like serving food and gardening, because it gives them something to do that isn't sitting around doing nothing. Well, you're not wrong. The problem is when people think the problem of exploitation is being unhappy. Walter and Georgina both openly declare that they are quite happy - but they're literally, albeit unconsciously 'crying in the inside'. In a Marxist film this would be a metaphor for class consciousness, but the point here is that Get Out straightforwardly substitutes class consciousness with 'wokeness'. It's in the specific sense that: "Getting woke is like being in the Matrix and taking the red pill. You get a sudden understanding of what's really going on." -urbandictionary.com
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2017 01:25
|
|
|
To return to something people mentioned earlier in the thread: When I saw it there was a large group of people behind us laughing really loudly and saying stuff about the film. "What was that??" "Who is that?" and etc. They were loud, just speaking volume. For me that totally ruined the tension of the film and when people mentioned earlier being happy in a cinema that was loud when the film was on I wondered if it was the same sort of stuff? I can see it adding atmosphere in a comedy but here it was just really annoying.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2017 16:15
|
|
|
In my cinema it was more shocked reactions and applauding at big moments. Which was super entertaining. Not people not getting what was going on.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2017 18:16
|
|
|
I saw it in a theater with almost all white people. There were a few that would react very loudly early in the film when someone would say something like "I would have voted for Obama a third time" and it was really grating to hear people try to impress the theater with how "woke" they are. Almost took me out of the movie but I enjoyed it nonetheless.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2017 19:28
|
|
|
I think we were the only white people in my screening. If not the only then certainly the most white.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2017 20:28
|
|
|
The stupidly over the top bad guys and their retarded plan took me straight out of the movie. "Look at rose drink milk through a black straw while being a Vile Devil Temptress and looking at black guys on google; She is sucking on a black straw because she sucks black penises. You can feel okay when she dies later, even if it's possible she's been hypnotized to do all this poo poo." That last bit is entirely not native to this movie though, I'm always annoyed by films feeling the need to make it okay to kill the 'bad guys,' whether racist depictions of gangsters, nazis or white body snatcher hypnotists(duuuuuuuumb) Jukebox Hero fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Mar 28, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2017 12:45
|
|
|
It's almost like movies frequently use over the top and unrealistic scenarios to make cogent points about the real world
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2017 19:12
|
|
|
I mean, that's certainly the hottest take in this thread
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2017 19:19
|
|
|
Yeah why can't they just be smart bad guys with reasonable plans, like Nazis?
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2017 23:38
|
|
|
Sir Kodiak posted:It is the case that he (Stephen Root) and the father (Bradley Whitford) appreciate the implications of using black bodies for the project. But instead of trying to engage in stereotypical black behavior, they fit into the more enlightened-liberal idea that once a black person reaches a certain level of success (e.g., Barack Obama, Tiger Woods, Jordan Peele), the status of being a "successful African American" is a positive. But is that co-opting black culture, given how much those sorts of figures are accused of acting white? (Note, Peele made a whole other movie about "acting white") And further, these are the white characters. The black-body/white-brain characters don't get into this. I think it's both? Like, yes, Logan/Walter/Georgina don't specifically put on ANY of even the superficial trappings of "being black" that might you might consider as old white people "co-opting black culture", but I think it's close enough to be a valid conversation and I think it still functions metaphorically on the idea of "cultural appropriation". It's just that in the literal of the movie itself, the thing being co-opted is the physical embodiment of being black without any of the cultural associations thereof. It's culture disappearing into whiteness. Maybe that needs a different term than "co-opting", since the white people in question aren't absorbing anything about black culture than the skin color, but it's along similar lines, I think.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 19:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 21:38 |
|
|
xeria posted:I think it's both? Like, yes, Logan/Walter/Georgina don't specifically put on ANY of even the superficial trappings of "being black" that might you might consider as old white people "co-opting black culture", but I think it's close enough to be a valid conversation and I think it still functions metaphorically on the idea of "cultural appropriation". It's just that in the literal of the movie itself, the thing being co-opted is the physical embodiment of being black without any of the cultural associations thereof. It's culture disappearing into whiteness. Maybe that needs a different term than "co-opting", since the white people in question aren't absorbing anything about black culture than the skin color, but it's along similar lines, I think. Co-opting is literally taking something for you own use. So, yeah, I think you need a different term. Since, as you say, what's being taken is without any of the cultural associations.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 19:14
|
|