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I did see that they stopped at $800 before dragging him off. Does United stop that low? On Delta I would have expected them to go up to at least $1,200 before even thinking about an IDB. Especially since they hosed up by boarding him rather than pro-actively keeping him in the gate area.
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Apr 10, 2017 16:00
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They are dumb if they do. I've seen $1,200 to $1,500 for Delta before, but normally its around $600-$800. And yeah, if they scanned that guy's BP and let him get on the plane, they hosed up big time.
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Apr 10, 2017 16:10
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How does it escalate to that? I am not involved with the airline industry, but even I see that calling the cops to remove someone that boarded the plane and forcibly removing them in the age of social media is a bad idea.
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Apr 10, 2017 16:37
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DJCobol posted:They are dumb if they do. I've seen $1,200 to $1,500 for Delta before, but normally its around $600-$800. And yeah, if they scanned that guy's BP and let him get on the plane, they hosed up big time. I get that, but at the same time he obviously refused a lawful instruction from the crew, and then refused a lawful order from police. This isn't going to end well for anyone.
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Apr 10, 2017 16:39
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Motronic posted:I get that, but at the same time he obviously refused a lawful instruction from the crew, and then refused a lawful order from police. This isn't going to end well for anyone. I think it will probably work out more badly for United than it does for the guy who was thrown off (and then back on) the plane.
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Apr 10, 2017 16:44
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Motronic posted:I get that, but at the same time he obviously refused a lawful instruction from the crew, and then refused a lawful order from police. This isn't going to end well for anyone. yeah i can actually tell you that it will end much, much worse for United Airlines. Just when you thought UAL couldn't get shittier...
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Apr 10, 2017 16:46
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First rule of United fight club: Don't talk about United fight club e: More detailed story: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...tered-and-limp/ quote:An airline supervisor walked onto the plane and brusquely announced: “We have United employees that need to fly to Louisville tonight. … This flight’s not leaving until four people get off.” air- fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Apr 10, 2017 |
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Apr 10, 2017 16:49
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Noctone posted:The sneakingly egregious part of it is that it's being reported as an overbooked flight but actually they were bumping people to make way for their own employees. Did you have a cite for this? I'd be really curious to see this part highlighted.
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Apr 10, 2017 16:50
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Motronic posted:I get that, but at the same time he obviously refused a lawful instruction from the crew, and then refused a lawful order from police. This isn't going to end well for anyone. That guy got to get back on the plane and will now sue the poo poo out of United, plus all the bad press. It only ends bad for United. And bully for that, because gently caress United, forever and ever and ever.
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Apr 10, 2017 17:07
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DJCobol posted:That guy got to get back on the plane and will now sue the poo poo out of United, plus all the bad press. It only ends bad for United. And bully for that, because gently caress United, forever and ever and ever. I'm not trying to defend them (United) or anything, but the situation shouldn't have escalated that far - that's on the passenger. I can't imagine digging in so hard that I get literally dragged off of a plane by cops. Yes, of course it ends more poorly for United in any scenario because - well, we're talking about it. It's public and people already hate airlines. But don't be surprised if this guy has future TSA problems.
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Apr 10, 2017 17:11
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Next time I travel I'm bringing handcuffs to chain myself to my seat just in case I really need to make my connection
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Apr 10, 2017 17:19
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I'm surprised nobody volunteered for eight hundred bones. It's less than a five hour drive, one-way rental costs less than a hundred bucks all in.
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Apr 10, 2017 17:21
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Motronic posted:I'm not trying to defend them (United) or anything, but the situation shouldn't have escalated that far - that's on the passenger. I can't imagine digging in so hard that I get literally dragged off of a plane by cops. Pretty sure the dude got dragged off after bumping his head and getting knocked unconscious.
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Apr 10, 2017 17:22
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DJCobol posted:That guy got to get back on the plane and will now sue the poo poo out of United, plus all the bad press. It only ends bad for United. And bully for that, because gently caress United, forever and ever and ever. What exactly is he going to sue United for? They asked him to leave the plane as they a lawfully entitled to do and when he refused they called security at which point I don't think they're responsible anymore. Not to say that the whole thing isn't idiotic on Uniteds part but I'm just not seeing what he sues for unless United settles purely to avoid bad press. Edit: I think the part I'm confused on is how United is at all responsible for airport security manhandling the dude. That seems like it should be on the airport.
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Apr 10, 2017 17:25
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I've never heard of someone being bumped after boarding, which is probably why you don't see more of these videos around.
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Apr 10, 2017 18:13
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smackfu posted:I've never heard of someone being bumped after boarding, which is probably why you don't see more of these videos around. I've been paged before after boarding to get bumped. It usually doesn't happen because people who get bumped don't generally have confirmed seat assignments. In my case, I volunteered. (For $800 on Delta.) KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I'm surprised nobody volunteered for eight hundred bones. It's less than a five hour drive, one-way rental costs less than a hundred bucks all in. On airlines other than Delta, it's usually airline credit for volunteers, which many people rightfully feel is completely useless. Also, for involuntary denied boarding, it's supposed to be hard cash. The gate agent may have not been doing things correctly with the current laws.
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Apr 10, 2017 18:34
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Alright so I offered to give up my seat for $200 for a flight that was an hour later and now I feel like a sucker for going that low. They ultimately didn't need me so I still got home on time but now i want to know what the rule of thumb is for setting that price
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Apr 10, 2017 19:04
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It's a very YMMV situation. Delta is obviously more generous than other carriers. And there is also significant discretion for the gate agents as well. If you have elite status, make sure to tell them (but do it gracefully) to try to get your volunteer bid prioritized over others, if there's multiple volunteers. Sometimes, they will just assume their frequent fliers will not want to be bumped (since it's seen as a bad thing). Sometimes they'll just give you the max amount, sometimes they will auction. It all really depends. If a flight is near departure or delayed, they're not going to waste time doing the bidding process. They also have discretion over hotel shuttles, roundtrip transportation, and meal vouchers.
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Apr 10, 2017 19:29
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Because of what I feel like my time is worth, I've never surrendered to one of these. I would take the offer when you feel like it's worth it, to you. Hilariously, UAL is up like $2 since this news broke.
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Apr 10, 2017 19:36
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I never get good offers when I can actually take them. United offered me like $600 or maybe even $800 for one of my flights a couple of months ago but (a) it was 100% necessary to get back that day before a certain time and (b) I'll be hosed if I'm spending one second longer than I have to in the garbage dump that calls itself Reno.
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Apr 10, 2017 19:46
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i fly airplanes posted:Are you talking about the new Premium Economy on AA's Dreamliners from DFW? That's only free for elites for a limited time, currently coded as Main Cabin Extra seats. they very well intend to start selling them as a separate product! Yeah, on a 787. Technically they have already started selling this. Turns out the recline kind of sucks. Disappointed with that.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:12
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smackfu posted:I've never heard of someone being bumped after boarding, which is probably why you don't see more of these videos around. I've taken VDBs after boarding for weight/balance or runway restrictions. But never seen an IDB after boarding.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:58
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Motronic posted:I'm not trying to defend them (United) or anything, but the situation shouldn't have escalated that far - that's on the passenger. I can't imagine digging in so hard that I get literally dragged off of a plane by cops. I can totally see somebody getting pissed off to that point after interaction with a power tripping gate agent who needlessly escalated things. I've seen lots of interactions with airport personnel where the actions of the TSA/Gate Agent/whatever needlessly took what should have been a straightforward interaction to the verge of somebody getting arrested.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:59
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asur posted:What exactly is he going to sue United for? They asked him to leave the plane as they a lawfully entitled to do and when he refused they called security at which point I don't think they're responsible anymore. Not to say that the whole thing isn't idiotic on Uniteds part but I'm just not seeing what he sues for unless United settles purely to avoid bad press. United escalated the situation by (1) calling in the cops to intimidate and enforce removal and (2) telling the cops he was a disruptive passenger. When in fact he was a guy who paid for his flight and was already seated, ready to board. If you think it's humane for an airline to operate in such a way where they can arbitrarily tell you you are trespassing on their plane (and forcibly remove you from their plane) despite following all of their rules, that's crazy.
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Apr 10, 2017 23:45
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Sorry that's not how any of this works. Contract of carriage says you can be involuntary bumped. Federal law says to comply with all air crew. United messed up by letting the guy board when seats were needed. The rest is on police and the guy.
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Apr 11, 2017 00:53
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Mandalay posted:If you think it's humane for an airline to operate in such a way where they can arbitrarily tell you you are trespassing on their plane (and forcibly remove you from their plane) despite following all of their rules, that's crazy. Welcome to federal law. Again, not saying this was the right thing for United to do, but this guy can now have some legal problems that potentially United won't even be able to help him with. I'm also not judging whether the law is correct or not, I'm making a statement of fact on what they are: he was given multiple lawful orders to get off the plane and didn't. A sane business would have found a better way to deal with it, a sane passenger wouldn't have allowed it to go that far. Edit.....what sellouts said up above this.
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Apr 11, 2017 00:56
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I'm surprised they couldn't find one more person to take $800 + free hotel to fly the next day. I've had nothing but positive experiences with UAL but this might make me jump ship.
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Apr 11, 2017 01:20
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Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's right. I mean technically United could have an air marshal hog tie you and lock you in the bathroom if you unbuckle your seat belt when the fasten seat belt light is on. If you have United status it's probably worth sending them an email or a letter. I feel like a bit of pressure would make them change their policy. If everyone just shrugs I could see the day where this happens and we are all in this thread posting "I'm surprised no one took the $50 Chile's Too voucher and the 2 packs of airline peanuts"
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Apr 11, 2017 01:26
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Hashtag Banterzone posted:Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's right. I mean technically United could have an air marshal hog tie you and lock you in the bathroom if you unbuckle your seat belt when the fasten seat belt light is on. Do you really not see the massive gap between between your ridiculous hypothetical and being lawfully ordered to leave a plane that is still sitting at the terminal?
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Apr 11, 2017 01:38
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You can have a reservation at a restaurant, and the restaurant can legally cancel that reservation while you are waiting to be seated, and then say you are trespassing and call the police and have you forcibly removed and arrested if you don't leave. But that doesn't mean that's a very smart thing for the restaurant to do if they want customers to come back.
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Apr 11, 2017 01:48
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smackfu posted:You can have a reservation at a restaurant, and the restaurant can legally cancel that reservation while you are waiting to be seated, and then say you are trespassing and call the police and have you forcibly removed and arrested if you don't leave. Has a single person argued that? (checks thread) Nope.
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Apr 11, 2017 01:51
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I can see United being held culpable if a lawyer can make a good argument that their rash escalation of the situation led to events spiraling out of control. And pretty much everyone hates airlines with a burning passion, so it won't be hard to find a sympathetic jury. At the very least I would expect the police that bashed his loving head in to pay a pretty hefty settlement. Excessive use of force is kind of A Thing. It's legal for airlines to boot people off the plane for no reason and it's legal for police to use force but they don't have carte blanche.
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Apr 11, 2017 02:09
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Guys, the flight was not oversold. While airlines do have the right to refuse transport to any passenger, there has to be a good reason. Making room for employees is not one of them. Unfortunately United is taking its sweet time to gather or disclose any actual facts..
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Apr 11, 2017 02:12
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Noctone posted:I can see United being held culpable if a lawyer can make a good argument that their rash escalation of the situation led to events spiraling out of control. And pretty much everyone hates airlines with a burning passion, so it won't be hard to find a sympathetic jury. See sellout's post above: sellouts posted:Sorry that's not how any of this works. This is the truest and simplest explanation. That said, from the video is does look like the police went a bit nuts. I hear that the officer is on suspension now, but that is not confirmed.
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Apr 11, 2017 02:17
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United, the passenger, the cops, and Richard Nixon are all winners in this situation.
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Apr 11, 2017 02:19
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i fly airplanes posted:Guys, the flight was not oversold. While airlines do have the right to refuse transport to any passenger, there has to be a good reason. Making room for employees is not one of them. What world are you living in? It absolutely is within their right per the Contract of Carriage to bump a paying passenger to ferry employees or for any reason at all, honestly. My understanding is that the employee involved in this case was required for the return flight on that aircraft. Had they flown without that employee, the airplane would not have been able to return from the outstation.
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Apr 11, 2017 02:21
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Mackieman posted:See sellout's post above: How does that negate what I said? Like, my post specifically takes that into account.
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Apr 11, 2017 02:30
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Noctone posted:How does that negate what I said? Like, my post specifically takes that into account. I was talking about the idea of a lawyer having a case; I believe the CoC makes it such that an attempt to bring a suit would never make it to a jury.
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Apr 11, 2017 02:32
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He wasn't holding up his end of the social contract so he had to be removed from the flight.
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Apr 11, 2017 02:33
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Mackieman posted:What world are you living in? It absolutely is within their right per the Contract of Carriage to bump a paying passenger to ferry employees or for any reason at all, honestly. My understanding is that the employee involved in this case was required for the return flight on that aircraft. Had they flown without that employee, the airplane would not have been able to return from the outstation. That makes sense. They can bump paying passengers, but they have to have grounds to do so. Ferrying deadheading employees is a good reason, yes. Airlines can't just start denying service to passengers arbitrarily, just like any business (gay wedding cake bakeries included).
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Apr 11, 2017 02:41
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