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Dr. Snark posted:Question: is there any reason our Sperwer drones can't do the same tactic of "hover just below missile ceiling, fly up when fired upon?" That seems like the best solution here. First, one died (  ), and second their ceiling is ridiculously low, like 10k feet. They might have some luck running around on the floor instead but they're so slow they'd probably still get nailed by their one weakness, literally anything whatsoever.
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May 1, 2017 01:37
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Dr. Snark posted:Question: is there any reason our Sperwer drones can't do the same tactic of "hover just below missile ceiling, fly up when fired upon?" That seems like the best solution here. power crystals posted:Doesn't this also have the issue that they might be hiding somewhere where we can't get LOS at 40nm regardless?
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May 1, 2017 01:39
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sparkmaster posted:I really don't like using our most expensive, most capable aircraft as SAM bait. Only if anyone who suggests such a thing comes along with... in the SK60B(s) in question. 
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May 1, 2017 01:39
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https://wiki.baloogancampaign.com/index.php/DataAircraft?ID=3485 If only this plane wasn't a disastrous disappointment 
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May 1, 2017 01:40
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Psawhn posted:Yooper, what kind of military, C&C, or other infrastructure could we hit? What would Von Hoff want us to take out if we can? There will be a wide variety of infrastructure available. These will include vehicle depots, bridges, power stations, airfields, fueling yards, ammo depots, forward operating bases, and the likes. Some of the stuff we'll know about, the bridges for example, or power stations, other things we lack the ground eyes to see, like depots, fueling yards, and forward bases. The static infrastructure is viable targets though the high value stuff, say a fueling yard, is of much more military value. But go wild, blow up whatever. Not to point the mission or anything, but we don't have to take the Kfirs. We can double cross them and blow them out of the sky. Sure it's awesome to get them here, but do whatever, we don't owe anyone anything.
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May 1, 2017 01:42
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Yooper posted:There will be a wide variety of infrastructure available. These will include vehicle depots, bridges, power stations, airfields, fueling yards, ammo depots, forward operating bases, and the likes. Some of the stuff we'll know about, the bridges for example, or power stations, other things we lack the ground eyes to see, like depots, fueling yards, and forward bases. The static infrastructure is viable targets though the high value stuff, say a fueling yard, is of much more military value. But go wild, blow up whatever. I dunno, I think "we pay well for turncoats" gets us more than "we shoot people who try to switch sides"
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May 1, 2017 01:43
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Psawhn posted:They can't fly either low or high enough to be safe from the SA-11. I will not "magic" one up via a script. All assets will be on the ground at mission start. If our MQ-9 sees it, or the Sperwer stumbles upon it, then it's there. I won't have a tripwire that spawns one once a plane flies nearby. It's not fair to you guys and not fair to the system to portray it like it is. The SA-11 is dangerous, but has a shorter reach than the SA-10. It also won't have a radar that is on all the time. But they will be mobile. And I will have them moving.  Namibe is a bit lacking.
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May 1, 2017 01:50
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Hell I'd be cool with a dedicated ELINT mission tracking their new SAMs, discussing the likely destinations, and then striking :P If they are moving they'll be much, much easier to spot and identify at least.
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May 1, 2017 01:51
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What's the setup time on one of those? Can they just literally hit the brakes, point it at something, and fire? Or do they have to actually prepare it after moving?
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May 1, 2017 01:54
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I like the idea of hitting the Dictator on our terms. We've been reacting to his actions so far; we should take advantage of the lull to strike.
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May 1, 2017 01:59
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Loel posted:I dunno, I think "we pay well for turncoats" gets us more than "we shoot people who try to switch sides" That's the only reasonable policy. It also gives us an individual option after our inevitable ecoterrorism/throwing cluster bomblets around like candy gets the whole world against us.
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May 1, 2017 02:00
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sparkmaster posted:I like the idea of hitting the Dictator on our terms. We've been reacting to his actions so far; we should take advantage of the lull to strike. Maybe take a page out of their book. Fly on the ocean, hit them from the coast. Blow up the palace etc.
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May 1, 2017 02:03
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Yooper posted:I will not "magic" one up via a script. All assets will be on the ground at mission start. If our MQ-9 sees it, or the Sperwer stumbles upon it, then it's there. I won't have a tripwire that spawns one once a plane flies nearby. It's not fair to you guys and not fair to the system to portray it like it is. Yeah, I wasn't thinking that you'd "magic" them up. Even just keeping their radars off and letting them move about will make them extremely dangerous. If they're moving then incoming HARMs will miss (if they don't shoot them all down). We also can't classify them safely, even with the Gorgon pod, unless they start launching missiles and turn their targeting radar on. power crystals posted:What's the setup time on one of those? Can they just literally hit the brakes, point it at something, and fire? Or do they have to actually prepare it after moving? Yooper posted:There will be a wide variety of infrastructure available. These will include vehicle depots, bridges, power stations, airfields, fueling yards, ammo depots, forward operating bases, and the likes. Some of the stuff we'll know about, the bridges for example, or power stations, other things we lack the ground eyes to see, like depots, fueling yards, and forward bases. The static infrastructure is viable targets though the high value stuff, say a fueling yard, is of much more military value. But go wild, blow up whatever. That's a lot of stuff to pick from. I think I'll need some help picking targets. I mainly want to hit things that hurt the dictator's ability to wage war... but only stuff that hurts the military more than civilians. I think that if we blind the dictator's Radar network then it'll also help us escort the defecting Free Staters.
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May 1, 2017 02:04
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power crystals posted:What's the setup time on one of those? Can they just literally hit the brakes, point it at something, and fire? Or do they have to actually prepare it after moving? The units won't fire when moving.
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May 1, 2017 02:07
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Loel posted:Maybe take a page out of their book. Fly on the ocean, hit them from the coast. Blow up the palace etc. This is exactly what I was thinking. Strike package stages off the coast with tanker and EWAR support. Keep our AEW near our base with escorts, the rest in the strike package. We've been attacking along the same axis this whole time we've been in Angola. They're not expecting an attack from the sea.
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May 1, 2017 02:10
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sparkmaster posted:This is exactly what I was thinking. Strike package stages off the coast with tanker and EWAR support. Keep our AEW near our base with escorts, the rest in the strike package. Question: If we attack along the sea line, what assets will be sent east to shepherd in the defectors?
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May 1, 2017 02:12
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Davin Valkri posted:Question: If we attack along the sea line, what assets will be sent east to shepherd in the defectors? If we attack the palace, would Santos be looking at anything else? 
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May 1, 2017 02:12
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Davin Valkri posted:Question: If we attack along the sea line, what assets will be sent east to shepherd in the defectors? If they can't escape without help, they don't deserve to call themselves Hired Goons
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May 1, 2017 02:23
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We should tell them to give next of kin access to their Cayman's account. Hook up Von Hoff and the defectors. The Hoffians need the heavy vehicles and we could use the planes, but those nerds need to earn it. As for the strikes, just hit everything in the mountains in a line moving South to North with SDBs, the non-SDB carriers can hit a Lithium mine or play CAP or something.
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May 1, 2017 02:28
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Sniping the Presidential Palace or a major military base or something seems like the right kind of high-stakes raid we should be going for while most of the Angolan Air Force is smoking wrecks spread across a few hundred square kilometers. Airspace is probably never going to be this permissive again before the end of the war, let's take advantage of it.
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May 1, 2017 02:36
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Coffeehitler posted:The Hoffians need the heavy vehicles A phalanx of Hofflites 
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May 1, 2017 02:36
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Worth pointing out that Jack is sticking his neck out just as much on those defectors. We ignore them, we might lose him as a future contact, and if this whole thing is any indication that's probably not worth it. Given the amount of territory and airfields we hold in the east, I'd err towards the Kfirs heading from that direction into our territory. Meaning that we could probably station a few Gripens and Phantoms at Menongue and have them run some light CAP in the area, and at the end of the day they'd still be available for escorting the Kfirs to one of the nearby airfields.
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May 1, 2017 02:38
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I'm reinstalling Ace Combat Assault Horizon at the moment so I can pretend I'm Rohan also I agree with Dr. Snark. Ignoring Jack's Kfir gambit runs us the risk of souring our relationship with him given he put his rear end on the line for us to arrange it.
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May 1, 2017 02:44
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Alright - I think we should absolutely buy the ground assets... with one caveat. Count von Hoff is free to use them while we remain engaged in the theatre. However, any that remain at the conclusion of our contract come with us. Given that we are paying for them, I think that's a reasonable deal. We can loan them out again in the future in case any of our clients need them, or just leave them on base defence duties. Taking the defectors seems like a wonderful idea. Worst case scenario, we take out four Kfirs. It's not like the Meteors we would have otherwise fed them are free anyway (and God forbid one of them actually shoots us down or eats a missile we end up needing for something else later). Best case scenario, we get five new planes that we can use, send in as cannon fodder, or just turn around and sell. David Corbett fucked around with this message at 02:53 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 02:48
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I think we should back the Kfir gambit for a myriad of very good reasons that others have touched upon. I think also we should subsidize the Count's ground forces but check to see if we can manage some sort of lend/lease agreement first to offset the cost, maybe arrange for him to pay us back after we're done in the theater.
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May 1, 2017 02:50
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I thought you spergs might enjoy the map that I'm working on as part of the mission I'm planning.
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May 1, 2017 02:53
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I thought you spergs might enjoy the map that I'm working on as part of the mission I'm planning. Maps! 
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May 1, 2017 02:54
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Dr. Snark posted:Worth pointing out that Jack is sticking his neck out just as much on those defectors. We ignore them, we might lose him as a future contact, and if this whole thing is any indication that's probably not worth it. This is a good point and idea. We could do a light raid onto Kuito Airfield and might be able to open them a corridor (that should be a central area between both Free State bases) to make a run through, if we're going to detach a flight of Gripens and Phantoms to Menongue for the day. The Prowler should stay West to support the main strike against the Bulgarians or Lobito/Benguela Air Base. Do we have anything else with jamming capability that can be detached to the East?
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May 1, 2017 02:56
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Quick mechanics question, once a plane has a payload are they stuck with it for the rest of the mission or can you chance a payload when they're reloading? Also: Beer would it be okay if I used your map base for my own mission proposal?
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May 1, 2017 03:02
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sparkmaster posted:This is exactly what I was thinking. Strike package stages off the coast with tanker and EWAR support. Keep our AEW near our base with escorts, the rest in the strike package. We'd have to be a little careful, they've got SA-N-5 "Grail" missile systems on six of their boats, not really that threatening, can only hit a ceiling of 4200 meters at max and use old tech, but something to be aware of.
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May 1, 2017 03:11
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I thought you spergs might enjoy the map that I'm working on as part of the mission I'm planning. How did I not know this app exists? Renaissance Spam posted:Quick mechanics question, once a plane has a payload are they stuck with it for the rest of the mission or can you chance a payload when they're reloading? You can change payload fine. It just takes a while, usually several hours.
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May 1, 2017 03:11
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If the Bulgarians are dug-in in the West, I think we should use them as target practice and encourage the Count to make a push in the center--with CAS support from us. Once they take Kuito, Angolan forces in the east are cut off from supply, two mines have no way to ship their product, and we deny the airports in Kuito and Huambo to the Free State. The less people launching planes on our doorstep the better. Also nth-ing K&P the single F-15 is cool but would need to be paired up with one of our lesser planes as a wingman. https://plus.google.com/photos/1018...000681552189605
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May 1, 2017 03:35
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Random Axis posted:Also nth-ing K&P the single F-15 is cool but would need to be paired up with one of our lesser planes as a wingman. Indeed. The only plane an F-15 is allowed to wingman for is another F-15. Galm paint schemes optional
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May 1, 2017 03:41
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Take the Kfirs Buy Von Hoff some tanks and stick them in the Western theater of operations Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I thought you spergs might enjoy the map that I'm working on as part of the mission I'm planning. Very cool!
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May 1, 2017 03:46
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I'm trying to put together an op that focuses on clearing out the radar installations and other threats on the east side. That's easy access to two more mines, and putting together an op near the center gives us an opportunity to get those four Kfirs. The issue is response time; our longest range weapons are cruise missiles that will take around 20 minutes from launch to impact to travel the maximum range to the airport. While not designed explicitly for taking out runways, the massive warheads on the cruise missiles should have enough damage to gently caress up the runway temporarily and prevent additional fighters from taking off. Doing this would require cutting off the access road to the strip instead of the runway itself, as the Kfir's take-off distance doesn't seem to be all that much. What do you guys think? Also do we have any idea what kind of mission will be run, what the loadout of the planes will be, or how much time "a few minutes" is?
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May 1, 2017 03:51
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What happens if they have any AA protecting that airfield? SMARF has some acceptable SAMs and cruise missiles aren't exactly hard to shoot down. Also, comedy option that the dictator's Buks shoot them down before they even get there.
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May 1, 2017 03:56
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power crystals posted:What happens if they have any AA protecting that airfield? SMARF has some acceptable SAMs and cruise missiles aren't exactly hard to shoot down. Also, comedy option that the dictator's Buks shoot them down before they even get there. Yeah it's probably not viable. Honestly short of sending a force to the actual airport I'm not sure what's a viable strategy there.
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May 1, 2017 03:57
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Lend/Lease the ground assets to Hoff - he can pay us back if he wins. Take the defectors
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May 1, 2017 04:02
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I'm trying to put together an op that focuses on clearing out the radar installations and other threats on the east side. That's easy access to two more mines, and putting together an op near the center gives us an opportunity to get those four Kfirs. The issue is response time; our longest range weapons are cruise missiles that will take around 20 minutes from launch to impact to travel the maximum range to the airport. While not designed explicitly for taking out runways, the massive warheads on the cruise missiles should have enough damage to gently caress up the runway temporarily and prevent additional fighters from taking off. Doing this would require cutting off the access road to the strip instead of the runway itself, as the Kfir's take-off distance doesn't seem to be all that much. Like the others have said, that sounds a tad overambitious; odds are the cruise missiles would get shot down on the way to or at the airfield itself. I'd argue for a wide-scale hit and fade op across the better part of the region that focuses mostly on the center and west sides. Barring the Bulgarian group near our border (which we should use a more dedicated strike to deal with) there aren't that many targets actively threatening us. Best we can do right now is raise hell wherever we can, cause chaos across the Dictators lines, keep his forces guessing as to where the next strike is going to be and generally weaken the front line while we still have maximum air superiority. As for the Kfirs...in more detail there are two truly viable vectors for them to come in on, dependent on which airport they launch from. The first is basically cutting through the center of Angola roughly between the two Dictator airports; this is unfortunately the far riskier of the two for obvious reasons but our strikes could probably cause enough havoc to create a semi-viable escape route. The second, and much better option for all parties involved, is that they come in from the far east side, skirting the borders of Zaire and the Congo. There would be far less risk of the planes getting shot down by Dictator SAMs, but at the same time there's not much out their on our side either. Both routes should have contingency plans written for them.
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May 1, 2017 04:14
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Dr. Snark posted:Like the others have said, that sounds a tad overambitious; odds are the cruise missiles would get shot down on the way to or at the airfield itself. So maybe push hard in the center and east, maybe using cruise missiles against fixed targets to encourage their SAMs to make an appearance and give us something to target?
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May 1, 2017 04:23
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