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xthetenth posted:Hey out of curiosity, DB nerds, are there any decent/viable F-104 variants? Not necessarily for our use, I'm thinking an eccentric billionaire wanted a plane, paid for the production line, and then the opportunity was seized on by a record label trying to push an indie label by creating the Seattle Starfighters. http://cmano-db.com/aircraft/1933/ If you want a cheap, insanely fast plane with Medium range A2A missiles this is you bet
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May 22, 2017 16:27
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:So if I'm understanding this right, what we do is list out what we want for the various roles of Fighter/Multirole, Attack, and Support, and then based on whichever is the most popular Yooper comes up with our final shopping list? Roughly $440 mil. See here : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Qiub7A88MRvtKp_SupHHoOrknmSUgbYVYkX5USpuxio/edit?usp=sharing I'll take the wishlist, parse it, and make interesting choices. These choices will have a mix of what we want, and what we don't. You might have the money to get the F-15's, but not enough for the wedgetail for example. You'll get 50% value for selling planes. I'd planned on waiting till after procurement to sell airframes just in case someone really wants to buy 50 SK60B's for the ultimate in rocket destruction.
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May 22, 2017 16:30
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orcbuster posted:http://cmano-db.com/aircraft/1933/ Hey Yooper, what do you need to propose a PMC? (Also, F-104S? Bonus!)
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May 22, 2017 16:39
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German VTOL F-104s or bust. Though I'm sure they aren't in either database.
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May 22, 2017 16:40
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Edited wishlist to include pricing.
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May 22, 2017 16:42
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xthetenth posted:Hey Yooper, what do you need to propose a PMC? Just PM me with some background info and planelist. I usually adjust the quantities accordingly. This goes for anybody and anything, think it sounds cool? PM me, or hit me up on Twitter.
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May 22, 2017 16:51
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Wishlist of Doom 1 Long Range Bomber, preferably a B-1B Lancer (Yooper please inform the CMANO devs they need to fix the B-1B so it can carry 144 small diameter bombs. Alternatively a Tu-160 might work but the B-1B is definitely preferred here. As many Gripens as we can afford. That's about it.
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May 22, 2017 16:54
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Okay, the "Santa's Sleigh is actually a converted trawler hauling fissile material hiding somewhere in the North Sea" Wishlist: Fighters: None! Support: 1 x P-3C Orion Maritime Patrol Craft 2 x Sikorsky SH-60 Seahawk 1 x UH-60 Black Hawk 2 x Kawasaki P-2J Maritime Patrol Craft Strike: 8 x AH-64E Apache Longbow 4 x A-10C Thunderbolt (Can this actually mount SDBs like wikipedia suggests?) 8 x Mi-35 Hind 4 x Mig-29K (with in-flight refueling, antishipping weaponry) 4 x Su-34 "Fullback" 4 x Su-25 "Frogfoot" Multirole: 4 x Mirage-2000H 4 x F-4 Phantom II "Terminator" 4 x HAL-Tejas I'm trying to go with Yooper's multiple options within each class for variety and possibly suboptimal choices within the finalized list, while also avoiding most of the US offerings for fun's sake. Obviously this is a list that doesn't add to our air to air capabilities at all, but instead tries to give us more strike and especially anti-naval capabilities, plus modest transport options. Instead the idea would be to put the Gripens forward as dedicated CAP aircraft. Velius fucked around with this message at 18:25 on May 22, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 17:03
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Mostly I want to upgrade or trade in our Hercules for a MOAB and tanker capable model. Might be too pricey at about $55 million for the upgrade. Added Space fucked around with this message at 18:10 on May 22, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 17:27
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I think we should buy planes with fun names, like: A-37B Dragonfly [Super Tweet] and: Dash-8-300 MPA how about : Rooivalk Mk1 or maybe: Cheetah D
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May 22, 2017 17:29
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Yooper posted:Just PM me with some background info and planelist. I usually adjust the quantities accordingly. This goes for anybody and anything, think it sounds cool? PM me, or hit me up on Twitter. Yeah, I think this might have to happen. Now I just need to find a ludicrously old but fast LGB hauler because somehow a solid wall of F-104Gs throwing Kormorans doesn't really seem competitive, although it would be hilarious. Comedy option: 
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May 22, 2017 17:29
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I can't see anything on my wishlist that's hasn't already been covered, so I'll abstain. Out of curiosity, and sorry to harp on this, but will L&E be made available? I want to see how many Free State Kfirs and Dictator Fishbeds are down. Call it an assessment by the New Angolan Government.
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May 22, 2017 17:34
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xthetenth posted:Yeah, I think this might have to happen. Now I just need to find a ludicrously old but fast LGB hauler because somehow a solid wall of F-104Gs throwing Kormorans doesn't really seem competitive, although it would be hilarious. http://cmano-db.com/aircraft/2216/ http://cmano-db.com/aircraft/4478/ In keeping with the eurotrash theme. Both starfighter and mirage V are mach 2+ capable orcbuster fucked around with this message at 17:40 on May 22, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 17:36
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orcbuster posted:http://cmano-db.com/aircraft/2216/ Hell yeah, I think starfighters, mirages and MiG-21s en masse is the goal. Time to start the vinyl countdown.
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May 22, 2017 17:46
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My wishlist: Multirole F/A-18 Hornet, either C or D variant. E or F would be nice, but unlikely to be affordable in the numbers we need. And if we intend to send our Gripens in for an upgrade to their E variant, we're going to need at least 6 and preferably 10-12 of these to fly CAP in the interim. Maritime Patrol P-3 Orion. Simple, effective, and can carry SLAM-ERs when we don't need them for naval patrol. Preferably 2 or 3 of these. Support EA-6 Prowler. 2 of these. OECM is critical going forward, and we need to be able to send jamming support in to directly assist a strike package or fighter sweep rather than staying far to the rear and hoping for the best. Growlers would be better, but are probably also out of our price range. V-22 Osprey. 2 of these. One kitted out for CSAR, one for cargo. These are purely for added utility. Longer-term, we'll want another AEW plane so that we can rotate one down for refueling and still have airborne radar support, but any decent AEW plane would likely drain too much of our available funds at this point. No boats. We can save up for those and buy them when we know we'll need them. The Sandman fucked around with this message at 17:53 on May 22, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 17:47
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Velius posted:4 x Su-27 "Frogfoot" 27s are Flankers, did you mean Su-25s?
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May 22, 2017 18:19
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Ok, so here’s my list in a more Yooper-friendly format. I’ve tried to make everything I could a two-seater to maximize the number of goon pilot/WSO slots. Sales: 2 AMX A-11: $16.5 million 1 SU-25 Frogfoot: $8.5 million Total: $25 million Upgrades (or Swap) 2 German Tornado IDS --> 2 Saudi Tornado IDS Spinoff: 3 SK 60Bs become the "Dragonslayers" aerobatic team and perform at airshows, take people for rides, etc. Package Multirole Fighters BLFM: 6 ex-USN F/A-18D Hornets (8x$40 = $320 million) Ivanov: ex-Venezuelan Su-30MK2 Flanker G (8x$35 = $280 million) K&P: JAS 39F Gripen NG (4x$85 = $340 million) Attack: BLFM: 2 F-15E Strike Eagles (2x$110 = $220 million) Ivanov: Su-24M2 Fencer D (6x$24 = $144 million) K&P: 6 ex-Saudi Tornado IDS (4x$30= $120 million) Support: BFLM: 1 ex-USN P-3C Orion Update II (1x$35 million) [note: currently being retired by the US Navy, so they should be available cheap) OR 1 ex-USCG HC-130H (1x$35 million) [note: they’re currently being sold off by the USCG, so we could get a good deal on them] Ivanov: ex-Indian Il-38SD May (1x$30 million) K&P: BR.1150 Atlantique 2 (1x$30 million) OR 1 ex-Turkish CN-235MPA Persuader (1x$35 million) NOTE: to get these numbers, I’ve just used Yooper’s numbers if the aircraft has appeared before. If it hasn’t, I’ve tried to account for the cost of the aircraft + the cost of the support packages (spares, tech reps, etc.) that are factored into the price. It’s difficult to nail down exact numbers, so I’ve been as conservative as possible. I’ve also tried to account for the new/used issue, with newer aircraft being pricier, etc. Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 21:18 on May 22, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 18:23
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power crystals posted:27s are Flankers, did you mean Su-25s? Yup! Thanks for the correction. Just wanted a budget strike option in the list.
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May 22, 2017 18:24
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Just a small question but what does an good tank/IFV go for? I think we might want to get at least SOME ground defence around our main air strip for one of those "what if" scenarios like the Chinese deciding to gently caress with our landed planes.
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May 22, 2017 18:27
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Brazilian Hinds are cool and good, European and South African helicopters are cool too. Strike 4x Eurocopter Tigre HAD 4x Rooivalk Mk.1 Utility 8x NH90 TTH (There's an ASW version as well) Support 1-2x SU-24MP. (For variety) Fighters and multirole: Gripens, anything non-US. Already covered! PenguinSalsa fucked around with this message at 18:41 on May 22, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 18:29
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Bacarruda posted:Ok, so here’s my list in a more Yooper-friendly format. I’ve tried to make everything I could a two-seater to maximize the number of goon pilot/WSO slots. I'd be really keen on any of these, really.
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May 22, 2017 18:36
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Koorisch posted:Just a small question but what does an good tank/IFV go for? If they get that close with tanks we're screwed anyway. Tanks are for offensive ops, not base defense. There is also the massive issue of rebasing them, our C-130 can't even handle light stuff. The US for example is leaving 6000 MRAPs abroad simply because it's cheaper to buy new ones than airlift them out of the sandbox (150000 per vehicle.) Those are 10-15 ton trucks. With tanks we're talking 40-60 ton stuff. Modern tanks are around 4-5 million per pop. This is why you won't see tanks or even IFVs in afghanistan for example as it's 100% reliant on airtransports for resupply. orcbuster fucked around with this message at 18:45 on May 22, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 18:38
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Yvonmukluk posted:Or, say, maybe goons can tag their pilots with a 'death flag' if they're willing to let their guys bite the big one in the name of dramatic stakes. I like the idea. Consider me signed up.
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May 22, 2017 18:46
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There is a disturbing lack of bote in the above suggestions 
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May 22, 2017 18:51
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If I were a rich PMC... Well, first let's analyse the fleet and see what we have. First of all, the all stars of the fleet, the Gripens. They only do everything and everything we ask of them. The dream is to either buy even more Gripens or upgrade them to the Gripen E standard, but that'll be expensive. Second, the workhorses, the Phantoms. They've done some solid work for us as fighter-bombers, but some of their armament does let them down somewhat. They've got a very limited engagement range when dropping bombs and they've got little standoff capability. Their time hasn't come yet, but it may come soon. The Tornadoes are a mixed bag. The Saudi ones are great, with ARMs for days, ALCMs or a bevy of Brimstones. The German ones... not so much. The fact that the German Tornadoes don't have Brimstones really does let them down. The Saudis are a definite keep, but we're going to have to either do something with the German ones or accept that they're ALCM trucks. I'm, strangely enough, more keen on the Kfirs and it's all down to the SPICEs. They're really nice glide bombs, and we can also throw them up with a pair of Derby should we need them. And finally, we come to what I've come to look at as the grab bag of mediocrity. These tend to be aircraft that for whatever reason, just aren't all that appealing to me. The Sk 60s have proven time and again that they've got no reason to be part of the force, they've got to be retired and soon. The AMXs and F1s are throwbacks, but at least to the 1980s and not the 1960s. At least they have some precision ordnance. The Frogfoot requires an awful lot of attention to be used to its full potential, and even then it's so short legged that it's not really worth bothering with.
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May 22, 2017 18:52
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Don't have much to say on procurement, but agreeing with this:Bacarruda posted:I like the idea. Consider me signed up. Knowing everytime I go up I might not come back will make streams ever that much more exciting.
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May 22, 2017 18:57
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Yeah, thirding the suggestion to allow us an opt-in death flag. Kinda takes the impact out of people getting shot down when you know they're gonna walk away.
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May 22, 2017 19:06
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Yeah, permadeath makes it more exciting, sign me up.
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May 22, 2017 19:07
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As the prowler pilot and apparently ECMO crew as well, if I die then HG has probably just been overrun anyway  Sign me up for death-flag if we're doing this.
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May 22, 2017 19:11
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Bacarruda posted:I like the idea. Consider me signed up. But if you bite it, who's going to give briefings? 
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May 22, 2017 19:12
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Folks can always bring on a second name, or some such. I'd rather not have folks walk away from the LP because a pixel plane died. Though if you want to permanently retire your callsign that's OK.
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May 22, 2017 19:15
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Oh oh oh! One more really really good aircraft that I'd love to have in the fleet. https://wiki.baloogancampaign.com/index.php/DataAircraft?ID=4329 OK, it's Chinese so it'd be hard to get, but look at what it can do. EWAR, anti-ship, ALCM, standoff strikes, anti-radar, ELINT... This thing just does everything.
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May 22, 2017 19:20
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Yooper, do you want us to put in price estimates and suppliers like Baccaruda or is it all right to make it more free form? It isn't clear if you're going to be taking lists wholesale or if you plan to pick what you'd like from the various things we've all proposed to make up your final lists.
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May 22, 2017 19:26
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Yooper posted:Folks can always bring on a second name, or some such. I'd rather not have folks walk away from the LP because a pixel plane died. Though if you want to permanently retire your callsign that's OK. Related request - as MEAT is more or less invulnerable right now since he basically doesn't even exist to be targetted, can our airfields get a generic soft building or two added to represent the UAV control trailer(s)? Even if he survives that getting exploded it seems only fair to the flyboys that it's a possibility.
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May 22, 2017 19:38
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Yooper posted:Folks can always bring on a second name, or some such. I'd rather not have folks walk away from the LP because a pixel plane died. Though if you want to permanently retire your callsign that's OK. Oh yeah, I figured that's what any of us posthumous heroes would do - can't let a little thing like death keep one away from this LP!
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May 22, 2017 19:41
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Yeah I don't see anyone stop following due to dying
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May 22, 2017 19:46
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Yooper posted:Folks can always bring on a second name, or some such. I'd rather not have folks walk away from the LP because a pixel plane died. Though if you want to permanently retire your callsign that's OK. How about this: 1) When enlisting, goons should specify if they want a 'death flag', allowing for their pilots to be (potentially) permanently killed. 2) If a pilot with a death flag is shot down, that goon creates a new pilot to replace their dead one, who joins the end of the replacement queue. Flagging that ahead of time might things easier for post-mission recaps, is all. Does the damage model allow for whether pilots can eject successfully? I guess a cockpit hit like what happened to Bandit & Survivor would be instantly lethal, but maybe in other cases you could, I don't know, roll a dice and see if shot down pilots with the death flag survive or not. I'll be honest, I''m probably not going to take a flag for Pike. At least, not yet...
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May 22, 2017 19:53
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WISHLIST Fighter Su-30MKM What is Malaysia doing with them anyways Su-35S Flanker E MOST EXPENSIVE AVAILABLE GRIPENS Bomber MiG-21-93 Sadly, Mig-21-2000 seems to just be an Israeli wet dream. Su-34 Fullback A Hind with longer range ATGMs or A Super Hind that's not that super, but has buddy laze ATGMs SUPPORT Mi-8SMV Hip J Il-22PP Porubshchik An-12BK-PPS Cub D A-50E/I Mainstay No Beriev A-100  More Shilkas and Pantsirs A single T-55 for me. Modernized, please.
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May 22, 2017 19:55
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Wishlist Air JAS-39 MRF https://wiki.baloogancampaign.com/index.php/DataAircraft?ID=3654 B-1R LRB https://wiki.baloogancampaign.com/index.php/DataAircraft?ID=4325 Tu-142 ASW https://wiki.baloogancampaign.com/index.php/DataAircraft?ID=3800 Ground WR-40 MLRS https://wiki.baloogancampaign.com/index.php/DataFacility?ID=2088 MIM-104 ABM https://wiki.baloogancampaign.com/index.php/DataFacility?ID=2506 S-300VM SAM https://wiki.baloogancampaign.com/index.php/DataFacility?ID=2425 SS-26 SBMS https://wiki.baloogancampaign.com/index.php/DataFacility?ID=2555 Support EA - 6b ELINT https://wiki.baloogancampaign.com/index.php/DataAircraft?ID=2304 MQ-9 IST https://wiki.baloogancampaign.com/index.php/DataAircraft?ID=3686 Loel fucked around with this message at 00:31 on May 23, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 19:59
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Loel posted:Have a blast from the past. Our wishlist from the beginning of the campaign. Where did you find an SR-71 for $31m? Because if that's real I want it.
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May 22, 2017 20:00
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