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If there aim is to kick literally everyone out then we might get profits based on their new profits from fisheries or whatever.
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May 26, 2017 07:23
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RA Rx posted:Maybe they can pay us in Shadowrun magic and control the weather for us in future campaigns? Luckily, unlike AngerPEACE, the Native Corporation are a sanctioned client an they're lobbying like there's no tomorrow. Also, the Russians might actually like our bosses since they murked the people who killed their citizens.
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May 26, 2017 07:28
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Yvonmukluk posted:Luckily, unlike AngerPEACE, the Native Corporation are a sanctioned client an they're lobbying like there's no tomorrow. Russians probably like Matsushita more, they're making money with them after all and if the natives want Matsushita gone, that's going to piss off the Russkies
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May 26, 2017 07:29
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I wonder what it'd take to what it'd take to convince the BSNC to relinquish claims on Siberia in exchange for Mitsu recognizing BSNC sovereignty and territorial possessions in Alaska?
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May 26, 2017 07:33
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Natives Target rich environment. Everything must be bombed, unless it can be stolen. 
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May 26, 2017 07:39
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gently caress Iceberg and we can't afford the operations of the Natives, as pointed out. Mitsuhashi, because we need money, planes, and boats, which the Japanese have in spades, compared to a washed up American fish-sticks company and a bunch of hippy-murder natives. 
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May 26, 2017 07:54
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Mitsuhashi I hope we get some salaryman shenanigans.
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May 26, 2017 08:16
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Mitsuhashi
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May 26, 2017 08:17
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Mitsuhashi. We barely made some money in Angola, we will operate at a loss if we pick the natives. We have obligations to our employees, partners and shareholders.
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May 26, 2017 08:22
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Natives
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May 26, 2017 08:37
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Natives for making our own choices. We just have to plan our missions with less expensive gear. And with all the lobbying who knows what advantage we can score.
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May 26, 2017 09:06
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[ Mitsuhashi. Let's make some money!
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May 26, 2017 09:11
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Since the majority voted for K&P Attack and the majority are also voting for the Indians there should be some overlap from the optimization lobby... So consider this: Poor Impulse Control -> Liberal Use of Munition 1/2 Destructobux -> We'll barely run a profit if we do well. Better successfully kidnap that Bote and grab some oil wells fast or the campaign will be treading water on income. Or more likely Yooper puts down an extremely lucrative bounty for holding oil wells, or finds some other way for us to make money. RA Rx fucked around with this message at 10:10 on May 26, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 10:02
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Since we're hacking the planet, is there a way to jack the automated fishing canneries or whatever? Sell them to scrap, ransom them, turn them into helo carriers or hawk/pantsir platforms, dunno. Maybe even let the natives use them for fishin'. Vote Natives vote bombing the gently caress out of corporate elite, floating Borg cubes, Texans, and some hillbilly rear end in a top hat with snake leather hat. Natives provide commandos, we provide the spectacle of seeing how much ship a bunker buster can penetrate.
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May 26, 2017 10:34
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SlightlyMad posted:Natives Lots of targets, but no money to pay for the gas and bombs we need to kill them. It'll be like going to a candy store with only a nickle to spend. If we work for someone else, we only get to shop in half the candy store. But we'll actually be able to enjoy it. RandomPauI posted:We have freedom to pick our targets, but we have to do it on a tight budget. We won't have freedom to pick targets if we work for the natives. Some targets (like Ted Nugent's command bunker or a Japanese aircraft carrier) can only be killed with anti-shipping missiles or cruise missiles. If we tangle with those Japanese F-2s, we're going to need Meteors (and to replace any planes they kill). No money, no missiles, no new planes. All that equals fewer choices. RA Rx posted:Thankfully the GM is too competent to leave Hayard Gunnes broke and friendless as a consequence. He's the one who put it down as an option after all, there must be a way to make it work, even if it's pants on fire insane. I wouldn't count on meta-gaming that Yooper will give us a safety net. Night10194 posted:Considering their 'best lobbyists in the world' I'm sure we'll find a few opportunities for supplemental income with the natives if we end up there. Lobbyists are even bigger hired guns than we are. If Iceberg or the Japanese pay them more (and you can bet they'll try), then they could very well jump ship and leave the natives (and us!) without political support. The natives don't have the deep pockets needed to mount a sustainable political campaign and pay our fees. Plus, we can just hire a lobbyist of our own. We already have Jack working for us again. mllaneza posted:OR ! That could happen because some fuckstain in middle management didn't properly support the "get bombs to the mercs" project. Forget working for Mitsuhashi, we'd have as much freedom of action as a minimum wage retail worker, We're mercenaries. As long as we're power crystals posted:On the other hand, the only thing better than buying a boat is stealing a boat, and we aren't going to get away with stealing one from our employer. Working for the natives means we potentially can jack something actually kind of decent, and given the prices of those things that might singlehandedly cover any financial opportunity costs. One, Yooper has said stealing a boat would be very, very hard. We're counting our chickens before the hen has even laid an egg. Two, we have no idea what a "decent boat" would be. Three, I'd rather have $600 million in the bank at the end of the campaign and be able to buy whatever drat boat we want, instead of being forced to steal a rusted-out old Coast Guard cutter. RA Rx posted:It's coming from their 11,000 personal accounts? If every single native supports this and gave 10,000 to the cause, including the children, that's 110 million for the entire campaign. This. A thousand times, this. IN ONE MISSION we blow through around $30-50 million in gas and weapons. We've been relying on the destruction bonuses to break even and make a profit. Half those bonuses and we're broke.
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May 26, 2017 10:39
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I think we're all assuming a lack of funding that has not been stated, it's likely the natives have the money to pay us for the targets we hit if they managed to put up an offer at all, they also likely have backers we don't know about who also have money, and they'll likely be in a similar boat to Von Hoff and CO in that we'll be capturing sources of income for them that they will then pay us bonuses out of, and the Lithium Mine bonus was a major moneymaker. But I also know absolutely nothing about these people or this area beyond that it has crab fishing at times and angry people fighting whalers (although less of them now) it so I could also be totally and completely off base.
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May 26, 2017 10:53
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Yeah, I doubt that Yooper would give us a 'trap' decision. If we screw up on the actual mission planning/execution, we might be screwed, true, but I figure he won't put us in an economic tailspin for no reason. We just won't be able to rely upon 'LOL, blow up everything' as a foolproof strategy.
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May 26, 2017 10:58
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Yvonmukluk posted:Yeah, I doubt that Yooper would give us a 'trap' decision. If we screw up on the actual mission planning/execution, we might be screwed, true, but I figure he won't put us in an economic tailspin for no reason. Yeah, i second this. I doubt Yooper would set us up with a boogus choice.
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May 26, 2017 11:17
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Yvonmukluk posted:Yeah, I doubt that Yooper would give us a 'trap' decision. OTOH he gave us the Ivanov support option, which was very much a trap. And he didn't breadcrumb any other way of generating income. Plus his attitude has always been "if you make stupid decisions, that's on you" He didn't save the aircraft that got shot down due to our mission planning, and he's not going to go out of his way to save us from bankruptcy.
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May 26, 2017 11:19
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Dance Officer posted:OTOH he gave us the Ivanov support option, which was very much a trap. Yooper's not going to shield us from mistakes we make ourselves independent of his input, but I doubt he's going to be a dick and give us choices to make that are going to doom us sight unseen.
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May 26, 2017 11:28
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Remember, mission briefing stated that our investors expect to see some profit. So far we have spend every cent on new airframes. We do not want to fly against a first-world militaries on shoestring budget. Especially not for employers whose fleet consists of fifty kayaks and were last seen committing mass murder. Voting Mitsuhashi, the only sensible choice.
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May 26, 2017 11:29
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Yeah Mitsuhashi all the way for the reasons outlined above. I fear the bandwagon this time is directed straight towards bankruptcy, plus whatever other negative effects come from supporting the latest generation of ecoterrorist.
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May 26, 2017 11:29
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Yvonmukluk posted:Yooper's not going to shield us from mistakes we make ourselves independent of his input, but I doubt he's going to be a dick and give us choices to make that are going to doom us sight unseen. Well it's not sight unseen - he's explicitly told us about the income penalties, it's up to us to realize the implications.
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May 26, 2017 11:30
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As tempting as it is to go with the underdogs, the big difference between the natives and van Hoff is that the Hoff had a plan for the Angolan post-war government. The natives may have excellent PR but they don't seem to have any idea what to do with their independence once they get it except gently caress EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING, Having total freedom in mission planning might compensate for the POOR IMPULSE CONTROL to a degree but there's still a huge risk for career-(that is, profit-)damaging warcrimes. I'm all for dropping white phosphorous on the Nuge but ethnic cleansing is not what I signed up for. I haven't decided yet but I'm leaning towards Mitsuhashi. PenguinSalsa fucked around with this message at 11:35 on May 26, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 11:31
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Kiejzar posted:Remember, mission briefing stated that our investors expect to see some profit. So far we have spend every cent on new airframes. To be fair, the investors take out money before we buy planes and other gear, they get the first cut of everything we make (10% if I recall correctly). That said I'm still in favor of Mitsuhashi, they offer the best profit incentive and can open up some real doors and opportunities for us down the line. Hoff may have had not as much money, but we were securing large resource production structures that could give us income boosts given the demand for lithium. While oil and fish certainly make money, its not going to be the insane bux lithium was.
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May 26, 2017 11:54
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I'm guessing it won't be a problem. The native Corp knows they don't have that much money and the don't have much leverage over the situation. So they start us off doing smaller targeted missions, popping boats or covering smaller attacks on the edge of the real powers' waters. This is so they can build momentum and find backers. We won't be expending much in munitions and gas at all until the end of the campaign. We're going to be doing cheap surgery, not Hoffs massive brawls
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May 26, 2017 12:29
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I worry that the natives with POOR IMPULSE CONTROL are just gonna be like Dos Santos except without the $$$. Imagine being ordered to secure a barren patch of nowhere because some shaman got hopped up on mushrooms. So vote Mitsu
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May 26, 2017 12:36
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Yvonmukluk posted:Yeah, I doubt that Yooper would give us a 'trap' decision. If we screw up on the actual mission planning/execution, we might be screwed, true, but I figure he won't put us in an economic tailspin for no reason. Yooper's always given us interesting challenges. That's one of the things that makes him such a great GM. But even if he throws us an economic lifeline and I guess I'll give people a scenario. We need to sink three of Iceberg's corvettes and kill the P-3 Orion they're using to spot Japanese fishing boats. Problem is, they've got great land-based radar and a squadron of F-16s on standby. Oh, and our ROE won't let us fire on targets we haven't visually ID'ed. If we're working for Mitshuhashi, we can afford to send up the Atlantique with Exocets to hunt down the corvettes and the Argus to find the P-3. Once it findsthe, we scramble a flight of Tornadoes to kill the ships with Sea Eagle missiles. Meanwhile, another Tornado goes in low and fires of some Storm Shadows, blowing up the radar and blinding the Americans. uh oh, better hope our planner had enough CAP, 'cause here come the F-16s... If we're working for the natives. We have to nickle-and-dime ourselves. It comes down to Paveways we can afford. And we'll just have to hope that the Phantoms can run away before they get shot down. Because two Gripens with no Meteors and no tanker support won't be in the air long. Planning complex missions with lots of moving parts is a lot of fun. It makes people think and figure out how to get the most out of our forces. Small paydays mean we're stuck with small-ball, small-scale planning.
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May 26, 2017 12:51
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I definitely won't get us into a situation where there's an economic tailspin into bankruptcy just because you guys chose one employer over another. There will be ways to make buck, more creative ways. While Alaska doesn't have Lithium... it has gold. Native Missions might not be the cruise missile spewing spree of Angola but an ulu cut to this point or that. Mission planning will be more nuanced. Now if everything dies in a fire in the midst of a huge air battle, well, that's the game we play. But I'm not going to toss you guys into a meatgrinder on purpose.
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May 26, 2017 12:55
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quote:Mission planning will be more nuanced. I think having to actually think about what ordinance we are using will great. I am jumping off the fence and going NativeCorp
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May 26, 2017 13:00
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If we're going up against smaller, unarmed botes, does that mean that strafing could potentially be a cost-effective option? (Sink any escorts with AShMs and put some holes in the trawlers/whatever with cannons and cheap rockets. ) In that case  Smaller ops could actually be a good thing if it gets more goons involved in the mission planning. Submitting a plan for something along the lines of the Keyser Soze op is far less daunting than planning an op that covers half of Angola.
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May 26, 2017 13:10
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Yooper posted:I definitely won't get us into a situation where there's an economic tailspin into bankruptcy just because you guys chose one employer over another. There will be ways to make buck, more creative ways. While Alaska doesn't have Lithium... it has gold. Good to get that confirmed. A quick question: was there anything actually left of the Angolan Air Force by the time we left? thinking of doing some writing to document their beginning to rebuild after the war (assuming that doesn't conflict with the overall narrative), and I'm curious what they have left to work with (I'm guessing...very little).
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May 26, 2017 13:15
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PenguinSalsa posted:If we're going up against smaller, unarmed botes, does that mean that strafing could potentially be a cost-effective option? Dunno how it works in CMANO, but you ain't gonna sink anything bigger than small fishing trawler with strafing. That's why Good God Above graced us with 227kg Paveways.
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May 26, 2017 13:30
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I think on the strength of the arguments within the thread Mitsu is the only real choice. We need more money, more money means more potential for botes. We may even get the opportunity to steal Nugent's bote.
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May 26, 2017 13:31
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Quinntan posted:So you're suggesting we try (we may well fail, after all) to steal a boat to make up for the inevitable massive financial losses we will incur... No, I want to help the natives anyway because A: a reputation for succeeding at very difficult jobs is a good thing and B: as someone else put it, a corporate dystopia with an inexplicably powerful Inuit faction is hilarious. The boat is just a nice side effect. I was going to say something to the extent of I don't think we'd be given a campaign-scale trap choice but Yooper beat me to it. I think what we're seeing is everybody who had K&P attack as their second or third choice voting native. It didn't win by that much of a margin even accounting for that, as I recall. (I didn't vote for it at all, of course) That said, Yooper, could we at some point get a table of the operating costs for our planes, at least for munitions but ideally flight time too? Knowing the difference in cost to stick a laser guidance kit on a Mk84 might be helpful, especially if the natives win.
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May 26, 2017 13:35
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Native Corp!
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May 26, 2017 13:44
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Bacarruda posted:Yooper's always given us interesting challenges. That's one of the things that makes him such a great GM. this is a good argument for natives imo
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May 26, 2017 14:01
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Zanziabar posted:I think on the strength of the arguments within the thread Mitsu is the only real choice. We need more money, more money means more potential for botes. We may even get the opportunity to steal Nugent's bote. We have word from Yooper himself that we will be able to make money with Native Corp, it's just that we need to be more creative in how to do it. And considering we get a lot of operational independence, that allows for us to be very creative. Up to and including bote theft. Worth repeating we will not incur massive financial losses with Native Corp unless we are bad at our jobs. We are not bad at our jobs.
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May 26, 2017 14:07
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My brain demands putting my vote in with Mitsuhashi, though my heart is with the Natives. Partially because although we can still make cash in various ways with the Native Corp., it's going to be dicier (of course this will make missions more exciting but also means margins of error are a bit too tight for my liking). We can't help the downtrodden of the world if we're loving broke. And if you don't think Mitsubishi is going to help its fellow Japanese megacorp (which have been been explicitly noted to have shares in one another, implying a vested interest in Mitsuhashi's success) by calling in its favour with us at the absolute worst possible moment then you're a damned fool.
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May 26, 2017 14:12
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| # ? May 20, 2024 09:03 |
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Yooper has worked with megacorps. He knows. Also I think my best post in this thread is relevant. Changing my vote to Mitsu. Regarding POOR IMPULSE CONTROL, I think in character I've already given my answer: xthetenth posted:Every gun that hits a hospital, every bombed school, every rocketed orphanage is in the final sense a theft from those columns we are paid to destroy, whose deaths we are remunerated for. This world in flames is not spending lives alone. It is spending the flights of its planes, the cover of its SEAD, the racks of its bombs. xthetenth fucked around with this message at 14:21 on May 26, 2017 |
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