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Shageletic posted:I just remembered that the lady was Jennifer Jason Leigh, and holy poo poo if that's her only appearance she is being insanely underutilized. Coop told her to be at a certain time and place. I'm willing to bet Chantal shows up this week.
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Jun 23, 2017 21:15
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:Oh, my bad Cheers! Thanks. Under the vegetable posted:Coop told her to be at a certain time and place. I'm willing to bet Chantal shows up this week. Here's hoping.
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Jun 23, 2017 21:16
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cis autodrag posted:Here's the thing: I think that a work like Twin Peaks can operate at more than one level. I know not everyone in TVIV is a fan of death of the author, but there's enough complexity here that there can be the literal narrative reading that is objectively true, and then a number of layered metaphorical readings on top of it. This wan't addressed to me, but I'd like to say I agree with it. A literal reading is perfectly fine and valid. Saying that BOB is a supernatural entity is fine and valid. The reading I've presented is only partial and I acknowledge that. It contradicts important plot details thus far, especially with S3. So go ahead everyone and belittle my opinions, I'll cope. I'm willing to offer my reading because I think that the world of Twin Peaks is one where subjective reality is so much a determinant of the characters and their actions that when analysing it I think it's OK to selectively ignore plot questions like 'How did Laura know about Cooper to write him in her diary''. I think the plot details can't be fully trusted in that type of interpretation because the subjective reality of the characters is so untrustworthy in providing an understanding of plot. The characters are selectively and preferentially understanding the plots of their own lives (Nadine is only a more extreme example), so I don't feel the audience is obliged to take those plots literally and exactly. Which of them doesn't lie to themselves (Audrey, but she is singularly awesome)? And I think that putting themes before plot in this way can be fruitful in making thematic connections and providing an understanding of their psychology. Lord Krangdar posted:I'd say that's mostly true but on the other hand isn't one of the first shots a POV shot from someone's perspective as they lay their face down on their pillow, before fading into the rest of the film? Totally forgot about that. Good catch.
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Jun 23, 2017 21:22
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Under the vegetable posted:idk how about the recurring theme of men ruining their relationships with infidelity and lack of trust Never noticed it.
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Jun 23, 2017 21:32
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PureRok posted:How 'bout the recurring theme of wives angry/yelling/nagging at their husbands? There's been an overall theme of (sometimes righteous) female anger and belligerence that runs from the female apparition that ripped the two kids two shreds in front of the black box (and 'Mother' angrily banging on the door) at the start, and it runs through characters like the Sheriff's wife, the argument between the woman and her wheelchair-bound husband, Janey-E, and now especially Diane. Not all are wives, but they all appear to be empowered female characters whom Jeremy Davies' character would no doubt refer to as a "Tough dame". And I'm sure there are more instances I've forgotten. The only female character that feels... indulgent on the part of Lynch is Tammy Preston. And hilariously, that's been addressed in-show already and Gordon Cole stood up for her so 
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Jun 23, 2017 21:36
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Basticle posted:Holy poo poo a Ghana poster for TP Man is that guy on horseback supposed to be Mike
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Jun 23, 2017 21:44
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His left arm at least.
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Jun 23, 2017 22:00
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Corsec posted:Well, I think Cooper's last visit to the lodge is his retrospective dream after the traumatic event in the woods. It's a failed attempt to reinterpret actual events in the woods in a way that can sustain his prior identity. So, of course it would be an attempt to maintain Cooper's sense of innocence and protect himself by misrepresentating how any harm happened to Annie or Earle. The intial stages (until the poisoned coffee) of the dream is what Cooper wants and attempts to believe, but can't successfully force himself to accept. The later stages of the dream show the collapse of that attempt under internal psychological pressure. His self-doubt is planted by his guilt over Caroline Earle's murder. The non-subjective reality that I think happened is Cooper killed Earle and maybe harmed Annie or allowed her to come to harm. I don't mean to belittle you, but I feel your reasoning is flimsy. It seems solely based on the fact that something bad happens to Cooper involving BOB. You basically project what BOB meant to Leland onto Cooper. There is a pretty big logical leap from "Cooper is shown failing to sacrifice himself" to "Cooper murdered Earle and harmed Annie". For this to become valid, you'd have to disregard Cooper's entire character. We know that he tries to solve situations like this without bloodshed. There has even been a different hostage situation in which Cooper exchanged himself for the hostages. After two seasons of Cooper's peaceloving attitude, it would take more than that (aka him failing to win) to convince me that he killed anyone he didn't have to. Also, Cooper totally dislikes Pete's fish coffee. Your generalisation doesn't hold up. Maybe coffee's just that drat good in Twin Peaks. 
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Jun 23, 2017 22:08
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Corsec posted:themes I like your idea except the dude just straight up walked into that place, it wasn't a dream, we didn't see him cosy down on that black oily poo poo in the middle of those sycamores with a comfy pillow and some sheets, dude walked right in. Windom and Annie walked in right before him and you saw the red curtains. I think you're interpretation of the symbolisms of the climax of the original run is spot on but despite Cooper first encountering it in a dream and Sarah Palmer seeing poo poo from there in a dream and Laura being fuzzy about the existence of a being from there I think the show is actually about how that place is real and the consequences of that. It's not Mullholland Drive, it's Twin Peaks. You can tell this by how the DVD cases have different cover art.
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Jun 23, 2017 23:17
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And More posted:Why are her cheeks so weird, though? That part really freaks me out. For me the scene would work better if she actually looked pretty. The scenes are really unnerving for me, and that just doesn't make me feel hope or comfort or anything.
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Jun 23, 2017 23:18
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eSporks posted:Yea, that's kinda what I have an issue with. The reading her being an idealistic hope sounds great, if she weren't horribly disfigured. I think the deformity is actually appropriate considering the circumstances. It makes sense that just hoping things will get better, while seemingly a nice thing to look forward to, it's flawed by the fact that the characters don't actively do anything to improve their lives together. It's wrong in a way that's similar to their "child."
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Jun 23, 2017 23:22
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The white horse represents the heroin that Leland was dosing Sarah with on nights that he was gonna get his BOB action on. At the time that episode aired, we still didn't know Leland was inhabited by BOB and drugging his wife so that he could do as he pleased. The white horse was a clue to this. But, please, go on.
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Jun 23, 2017 23:39
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Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray Gaile Gray
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Apple Craft posted:The white horse represents the heroin that Leland was dosing Sarah with on nights that he was gonna get his BOB action on. At the time that episode aired, we still didn't know Leland was inhabited by BOB and drugging his wife so that he could do as he pleased. The white horse was a clue to this. *ketamine, but yes.
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Jun 23, 2017 23:43
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Came across this bit of criticism the other day:quote:A collection of rambling and samey set pieces amateurishly glued together by a frankly adolescent conviction that weirdness in any form – hey, let’s not bother with a plot – can pass for clever and interesting, it should never have been made (and, having poked about online, I detect weariness setting in even among those who hailed its promise at the start). People love to talk – The X-Files blah, True Detective blah – of the influence Twin Peaks has had on television in the years since it first screened (1990-91). But this is silly, overstated. Television changes for myriad reasons, and is changing still, thanks to Netflix. That Lynch seems neither to know of these changes nor to care does not make him a hero, or even an auteur. It makes him a fool, and a dinosaur. I like the show precisely because of those reasons.
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Jun 23, 2017 23:56
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Confounding Factor posted:Came across this bit of criticism the other day: quote:(and, having poked about online, I detect weariness setting in even among those who hailed its promise at the start). [citation needed]
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Jun 24, 2017 00:00
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Under the vegetable posted:I don't understand how people can go to those lengths to ignore what's on screen. You ever read CineD before?
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Jun 24, 2017 00:26
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Confounding Factor posted:Came across this bit of criticism the other day: If only this show has extremely unimportant episode by episode conflicts that wrap up without progressing the overall story in the slightest!
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Jun 24, 2017 01:52
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CJacobs posted:[citation needed]
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Jun 24, 2017 02:26
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eSporks posted:I'm sick of Dougie, when are we going to get coop back! Episode 17
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Jun 24, 2017 02:35
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You're being optimistic.
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Jun 24, 2017 02:43
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be hilarious if lynch pulls another "ill see you in 25 years" and kinda, lays down the gauntlet for season 4 twin peaks
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Jun 24, 2017 02:45
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The only long scene that got on my nerves was the guy sweeping the floor in the last episode.
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Jun 24, 2017 03:13
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That song is only two minutes long
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Jun 24, 2017 03:14
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Maybe the author despised Lynch for some, er, other reason. Kind of absurd to say that there's no plot, given that it's actually kind straightforward in a lot of ways. What is everyone's favorite recurring/establishing shot so far? I am a big fan of the repeated shots at night over the Ghostwood.
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Jun 24, 2017 03:54
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The statue outside Dougie's work because it means it's time for my favourite character, Dougie.
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Jun 24, 2017 04:13
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snoremac posted:The only long scene that got on my nerves was the guy sweeping the floor in the last episode. 30 seconds in I was shouting SOMEONE GET THAT MOTHERFUCKER A PUSH BROOM
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Jun 24, 2017 04:16
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I really like Corsec's interpretation. I don't know that I agree with it 100% but it is cool and does make some sense to me and makes me think about some parts of the series a bit more. I'm terrible at symbolism, so I usually stick with a more literal interpretation. But a lot of the readings of Lynch's other movies that interpret things as mostly symbolic still resonate with me. Like cis autodrag said, there's many layers going on in most of his work. The literal reading is usually nonsensical to some degree, and Twin Peaks is probably the most grounded in its literal layer. It is mostly disrupted by intrusions of the paranormal, which break that literal story because it doesn't fit in with reality. Are we expected to believe that there is literally some otherworldly places inhabited by spirits that intrude on our world? Is it a metaphor for the good and bad aspects of human behavior and we should understand that something happened off camera that the scene is hinting at? Is it both? I feel like Lynch does an amazing job in everything he creates of making a reasonable (if difficult to digest) literal reading that covers a more vague symbolic experience that doesn't necessarily have a specific reading baked into it. Looking deeper than the surface level is like dream interpretation. It will have different meanings to different people based on their experiences. I love all the ideas that are thrown around here. There are so many interesting interpretations, but there's also a lot of series left to be seen. It's fun to speculate, but you can't really say that any one reading is or is not correct at this point. On a separate topic: I have a hard time thinking of the woman in the radiator from Eraserhead being any sort of positive thing because she was a staple of many stress nightmares and night terrors for me for a couple years after seeing Eraserhead. I saw it like 3 times around 1993 or so and couldn't even bring myself to watch it again until last year.
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Jun 24, 2017 08:51
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so uh, the guy and gal with the glass box? whats the literal meaning of that ?
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Jun 24, 2017 08:53
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snoremac posted:The statue outside Dougie's work because it means it's time for my favourite character, Dougie. Haha yeah, I see that statue it triggers,"DOUGIE TIME!" in my head 
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Jun 24, 2017 09:01
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Baloogan posted:so uh, the guy and gal with the glass box? whats the literal meaning of that ? they're extremely dead
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Jun 24, 2017 09:40
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Baloogan posted:so uh, the guy and gal with the glass box? whats the literal meaning of that ? There are bizarre beings outside of our understanding in the cosmos, and someone somehow discovered a way to trap them in a glass box. But the box wasn't strong enough to contain it and it escaped and murderized the spectators. Or something like that. Seems pretty straightforward.
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Jun 24, 2017 10:18
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So the non-paranormal reading of the glass box is that its paranormal?Section 9 posted:The literal reading is usually nonsensical to some degree, and Twin Peaks is probably the most grounded in its literal layer. It is mostly disrupted by intrusions of the paranormal, which break that literal story because it doesn't fit in with reality. Are we expected to believe that there is literally some otherworldly places inhabited by spirits that intrude on our world? Is it a metaphor for the good and bad aspects of human behavior and we should understand that something happened off camera that the scene is hinting at? Is it both? My 'non-paranormal reading' of the glass box is that they were working on some sort of high tech R&D project and due to a lapse in security some group that wanted to steal the technology broke in.
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Jun 24, 2017 10:26
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Baloogan posted:So the non-paranormal reading of the glass box is that its paranormal? Literal is kind of ambiguous here. It could mean "excluding a psychological/allegorical reading" and "without supernatural stuff". A psychological reading is allegorical, but doesn't necessarily exclude supernatural elements. A real-worldly reading, however, would include dream and allegory by necessity while disregarding supernatural elements. So, I suggest we drop the term literal because it's too vague. Now, let's discuss how film is actually dreamlike, and thus trying to determine reality within fiction is pointless.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2jUhnCU9iA
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Jun 24, 2017 10:38
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kaworu posted:Maybe the author despised Lynch for some, er, other reason. Kind of absurd to say that there's no plot, given that it's actually kind straightforward in a lot of ways.
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Jun 24, 2017 14:11
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Swinging traffic light all the way.
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Jun 24, 2017 14:16
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Baloogan posted:So the non-paranormal reading of the glass box is that its paranormal? What the gently caress are you talking about? Metaphorical doesn't mean paranormal.
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Jun 24, 2017 14:57
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Under the vegetable posted:What the gently caress are you talking about? Metaphorical doesn't mean paranormal. please try not to be too literal in this thread
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Jun 24, 2017 15:09
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I hope we get to see leo but he's part spider part chess piece now and lives in a tree
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Jun 24, 2017 15:17
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Baloogan posted:so uh, the guy and gal with the glass box? whats the literal meaning of that ? A magic thing killed them. That literally happened on screen. The allegorical readings are what else you can put on top of that. Like I said earlier, one reading is Lynch sending a signal that he's not going to give premium cable fan service. At least not in the way showtime would want him to.
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Jun 24, 2017 15:42
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The dead couch couple are the New Cooper's dead spiritual parents and represent the silent violent birth of the 99% movement. A 20 something barista and a debt-ridden student are trying to "netflix and chill", or engage in the dead end sex of the doomed Millennials, but they lose their heads and faces due to the carelessness of their billionaire employer. But at the moment of their death the redemptive Dougie-Coop is (re)born, and Jade acts as a sort of mystic all-American wet-nurse that brings him to a cosmic casino in which wealth is symbolically redistributed to the poor. Dougie Cooper represents a radical ideological shift in corporate policy characterized by honesty, play, justice and innocence over profit, realpolitik and cynicism. Wealthy CEO 1% guy, try as he might, is unable to squish the 99% movement. (Janey-E is the voice/prophet of course settling debts and spreading the message)
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Jun 24, 2017 18:52
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