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1. Revolution 2. Topple also, I don't think I got added to the captain list? tatankatonk posted:Great LP! Can you add me to the list of prospective captains? Ship preference is a mainline combat vessel, the bigger the better, named Ocean. Thanks!
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Aug 10, 2017 23:35
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That proposal looks ok, though I'd suggest a equal 3 way Sorium split between Mars, Earth, and whoever ends up winning the revolution.  It might be us.
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Aug 11, 2017 00:40
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Remember, all Earth really wants is Sorium. So offer them cheap Sorium (we had enough production before now, we don't super need Saturn's production), and joint disclosures on everything found on Pluto. What Earth DOESN'T want is: disruption to Sorium production. Another bunch of malcontents to manage 50 billion miles from their nearest base.
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Aug 11, 2017 00:45
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I don't think Earth actually knows or gives much of a poo poo about Pluto. Apparently they've been markedly less interested in anything beyond the Asteroid Belt recently. Almost like they think they think Solar real-estate is gonna be worth a whole lot less soon or something... Totally unrelated, but those energy spikes from Mercury have been awful weird lately 
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Aug 11, 2017 00:49
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Crazycryodude posted:I don't think Earth actually knows or gives much of a poo poo about Pluto. Apparently they've been markedly less interested in anything beyond the Asteroid Belt recently. Almost like they think they think Solar real-estate is gonna be worth a whole lot less soon or something... We DID just light it up like a Christmas Tree. They probably know now. And it'll make Earth less inclined to kick off a shooting war if they know we're not getting a leg up over them (while we re-arm).
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Aug 11, 2017 00:53
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It was.... 86 seconds of a super bright radiation burst, then it went away according to Saros. Weird as gently caress, yeah, but also explainable by mundane means easier than "aliens did it." Earth might be a little curious, but I very much doubt they'll dedicate significant time or resources to the most recent crackpot conspiracy theory about aliens when they've got their FTL program maybe even just weeks from their first jump.
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Aug 11, 2017 00:57
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Jack2142 posted:Why don't we just ask them why they are on the way to Saturn before doing anything much less negotiating the partitioning of the Outer Solsys.
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Aug 11, 2017 01:45
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They're probably underway to reclaim property from a rogue corporation.
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Aug 11, 2017 01:49
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1. Revolution 2. Topple We cannot afford to destroy vital infrastructure and poison relationships with Earth when the Lizardmen from beyond time and space will soon be invading us for our precious bodily 
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Aug 11, 2017 02:02
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^^^ See, this I respect. I don't agree with your conclusions but I totally respect your reasoning for it.
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Aug 11, 2017 02:05
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frankenfreak posted:This! Seriously! The thread went from "we have nothing to fear, we did nothing wrong" to "let's throw half the Saturn system at Earth to avoid getting wiped" seemingly on a whim and it's baffling. Talking to Earth instead of assuming their intentions in various ways sounds like a good idea at this point. There is the immediate situation and there is also what is reasonably likely to happen in the future given the situation. Asking Earth what they're up to is sensible. We also need to come to terms with Earth regardless of what they say right now because of the longer term strategic outlook. Whatever their intentions are now the situation will inform their intentions later and it does not bode well if we do not come to terms, sooner the better It might seem like it suddenly occurred on a whim because it was very sudden. The strategic situation started to change dramatically when we started stomping so hard on the IC's space forces. It suddenly changed a whole lot more once we actually gained orbital control of a major Sorium resource and also the Pluto incident occurring within a short time frame
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Aug 11, 2017 04:21
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That's a very good point. Everyone's so frantic to re-establish the balance of power because in about a month we shredded decades of political maneuvering and stomped the poo poo out of the IC, and now look poised to take all their poo poo. Earth can obviously never allow that, so we want to defuse it now. Massive changes like this are very rarely good for international stability. Things are gonna be turbulent enough squabbling over extrasolar resources, we want everything straightened out at home ASAP.
Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 04:27
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Jesus people, we don't let Earth just take half of the Saturn system. We need to see how this plays out before we start talking about a treaty with Earth.
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Aug 11, 2017 04:56
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Fray posted:+ Earth and Mars will arrange joint sovereignty between us over the Saturn system. Fray posted:+ Saturn's sorium production will be split 2:1 in favor if Earth. Fray posted:+ Mars will back the revolution on Titan, and recognize the revolutionary government, in exchange for control of all former IC naval facilities. Earth will recognize the new Titan government and our access to these facilities. Fray posted:+ Earth may have control of Rhea or some other moon and construct military facilities on it and station military forces there. In exchange, Earth will recognize the Kuiper Belt as within Mars' sphere of influence (this includes Pluto but try not to draw attention to that). Fray posted:+ Earth and Mars will agree to keep their forces in the Saturn system at (roughly) equal tonnage. This means most of that big BB fleet of theirs needs to turn around and go home. Fray posted:+ Each side may station up one brigade of garrison troops to guard our respective facilities. No offensive troop units are allowed. Fray posted:+ Earth and Mars agree to militarily resist any attempt by IC to retake Saturn. Earth will not interfere in our war beyond that. Fray posted:+ If Earth isn't interested in a deal, they will get nothing but wreckage and the middle finger (don't actually come out and say this but diplomatically imply it).  Instead of Fray & Crazycryodude's plan, I think we should invite United Terra to join us in stomping all over the IC. Offer them the rights to also harvest Sorium from Saturn as long as... + Mars recognizes Jupiter as being in UTs sphere of influence and is willing to assist UT in evicting IC squatters + Earth recognizes everything outsystem of Saturn (i.e. Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto and the likely mineral rich Kuiper belt objects) as in Mar's sphere of influence and their BB squadron will assist us in evicting IC squatters from those areas immediately as well as other forces if necessary (they won't be) Earth has one good choice right now; two kind of okay ones; and one terrible one. 1) The good choice. Team up with us (the winning side) and share in the spoils of reducing the Solar System to two factions 2) the better okay choice. Sit this war out and try to arrange a cease fire as soon as possible. This isn't great for them since we don't have as much reason to sell them Sorium as IC does and the longer the war goes on, the lower their Sorium fuel reserves are going to get. Also, if either of the other two factions win on their own, they get a lot stronger and become more of a threat to UT. The only thing that makes it okay is that they're probably on the verge of getting FTL and leaving us all behind. 3) the less okay choice. Push us out of Saturn without formally siding with the IC or declaring war. This is less okay since it risks the Martian Senate deciding this is an act of war - since it totally is - and nuking Earth. Earth sees the missiles coming millions of miles away and returns fire. Everyone loses. Technically the IC loses least, but it still loses a lot when all of its customers disappear. 4) the terrible choice. Formally side with the IC and declare war on us. If Mars starts losing badly enough, we'll nuke Earth. Everyone loses. So really, siding with us is in United Terra's best interest. We do want to help them see that, but we shouldn't give up too much in the process.
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Aug 11, 2017 05:02
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unwantedplatypus posted:Jesus people, we don't let Earth just take half of the Saturn system. We need to see how this plays out before we start talking about a treaty with Earth. We should start the process of ensuring at least some peace in the system considering Crazycryodude's excellent points regarding the fact that we have set fire to the status quo. Even if we can end the fighting on Titan in a favorable manner (that has the Titanian/Saturnian population joining or aligning towards Mars) so that we can repair our ships quickly (say a day day and a half at most), there's little chance we can repair enough so that we can defend Titan space against a reinforced BattleSquadron that we have basically zero intel on. Trading half of the Saturn system for assured peace with Earth is, frankly, a small price to pay. A much better price than all of it and losing the Neptune Fleet. Do not mistake prudence for cowardice.
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Aug 11, 2017 05:06
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Yeah that's actually better than what I was thinking. When we were first hammering out the initial proposal I think we all just kinda assumed that Earth had an insane lust for their own sorium that had to be quenched, but talking some more with Saros it sounds like they'd be fine with the rights to build their own harvesters around Saturn/buy from us instead of demanding a direct cut of production. If we're sending terms right away, I'm more partial to LLSix's than the original plan. But probably Earth is gonna hit us with a list of demands first and then we counter and negotiations will very rapidly go in a direction none of us expect right now. Don't want to be talking too long, though, whatever deal we emerge with has to be inked in triplicate before the IC gets here, and the earlier the better.
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Aug 11, 2017 05:08
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Or they might just wait on the whole negotiations thing until they see how the 3rd Fleet/us/IC throwdowns shake out. They might well be satisfied to go We Are Renegotiating The Deal at the IC.
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Aug 11, 2017 05:32
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Okay well here is my updated for awhile list of the Ships of Mars.
Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 12:02 on Aug 12, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 05:49
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TheWetFish posted:Expanding on Crazycryodude's notes with Build Points (BP); If we expand further based upon effective shots for "one CVL full": 19 Nike Probable hits vs 10k m/s: 3 vs 20k m/s: 1 41 Victory Probable hits vs 10k m/s: 5 vs 20k m/s: 2 8 Type 8 Probable hits vs 10k m/s: 10 vs 20k m/s: 5 The Perseid design was just put up as a quick example of where you'd get a 1 Crew fighter, but for completion's sake: 31 Perseid Probable hits vs 10k m/s: 10 vs 20k m/s: 5 Which was an interesting outcome. For kicks, here's a modified Type 8: code:vs 20k m/s: 5 Seems the extra tonnage devoted to the fire control improves the hit chances roughly the same as adding another gun, and the gun's cheaper in this case.
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Aug 11, 2017 14:07
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LLSix posted:Instead of Fray & Crazycryodude's plan, I think we should invite United Terra to join us in stomping all over the IC. Offer them the rights to also harvest Sorium from Saturn as long as...
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Aug 11, 2017 16:35
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Hmm, wow a lot's happened since I last had a good look here, some votes, if still applicable: ships: Type 8 Levy Saturn: 1. revolution 2.Topple As for Earth Diplomacy, I find LLSix's proposition a pretty good starting point at least.
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Aug 11, 2017 17:11
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There are a few other things that need to be taken care of parallel to the voting: - Decide if we try to run down the fleeing enemy Einstein class that is atm 50m clicks away ( the type seems to have some AMMs, so it might not be totally defenseless) - Take over the Rhea Mobile base if possible while destroying any active defense there that is left - Take stock of what IC missiles are availabe, if we find missiles to refill the Musk, Mayer and the Mobile our defense capabilities increase a lot - Find out which of our ships can be repaired before a potential engagement with the Saturn IC reinforcements, priority to the CGs and DDGs - Send out one of our Fleet Scouts in the direction of the incoming Earth fleet (we know the IC forces coming from Uranus, the IC fleet incoming from Saturn will be identified by 3rd Fleet, so only the composition of the earth fleet is unknown. Totally agree with Jack2142 and Frankenfreak about establishing communications with the incoming Earth fleet asap to find out about their plans and intentions. I do not think that Earth would just start a war with Mars without a formal declaration, and Mars definitely has a reason for a big assault on IC territory given what IC did to Mars.
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Aug 12, 2017 00:09
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The Einstein should be out of AMM's, back when it was still around Titan and we killed its friend it blew its whole load and then ran without being able to restock iirc. It might have a box launcher of 50 S3's? We saw one single box salvo come from Rhea when the Einsteins were still parked there, but I dunno if that was the Mobil, the dead Einstein, or the one that's still alive. My money's personally on the Mobil, but if when we capture it we don't see a 50x S3 box, then we should tread a whole lot more carefully around the 'Steins.
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Aug 12, 2017 00:21
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I'm gonna change my vote to Levy and Type 8 because the Victory is neat and awesome and cool; but I have been swayed by the argument of needing lovely cheep PD
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Aug 12, 2017 00:46
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That reminds me that I haven't voted on the ship designs yet. Tally up another one for Levy and Type 8.
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Aug 12, 2017 01:20
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lizurcainnon posted:If we expand further based upon effective shots for "one CVL full": Love your work, keep it up! I went with the extra tracking on the Type 8 proposal because I was (possibly unreasonably) also considering theoretical 30K km/s missiles. The extra gun increases the scope of critically successful accuracy so there's a pretty decent argument for it I did not look close enough at the Perseid and I clearly should have run the numbers instead of just assuming from a quick look. Most design specs are extremely complex trade offs that can be difficult to compare but for a simplistic goal such as PD fighter we really should have specified the PD performance upfront. Thanks for doing that, very helpful Options for carrier capacity are Small Boat Bay / Boat Bay / Hangar Deck for 125t / 250t / 1000t capacity. I usually design fighters around 500t sizes although 125t increments are also practical. Perseid is 127t I should have also run the numbers earlier on a turreted PD buoy "fighter", which it turns out is quite effective at these specific tech levels, although with all the drawbacks of a buoy
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Aug 12, 2017 02:18
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My personal thought is the Levy feels superfluous, we have no idea what the Terran navy looks like in reality and the IC is on deaths door, it isn't radically different than the current CLAA's in the fleet and if the Terrans are sending a "BATTLESHIP SQUADRON" having a heavy hitter like the the Testament or Fear and Dreadnought in our fleet makes me feel more confident. Same goes for Terrans having fighters, if they are going to have them, more PD is okay, but honestly being able to have a single Locklear crap out 40 victories would let us counter Terran Fighters, even if they aren't as good at intercepting missiles. I really doubt the Terrans are going to have the retarded hundreds of missiles launched via box volleys we have been eating and these votes are us reacting to the previous conflict not the emerging one. Could we get an intel report about what a Terran battleship squadron actually looks like and what some of the "observed" / estimated designs might be Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 11:29 on Aug 12, 2017 |
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Aug 12, 2017 10:44
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Even if the Terran designs are light on missiles but a decent reliant on parasite craft (fighters), PD fighters and Gauss batteries will still be useful against them.
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Aug 12, 2017 16:22
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Jack2142 posted:having a heavy hitter like the the Testament or Fear and Dreadnought in our fleet makes me feel more confident.
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Aug 12, 2017 16:50
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Yeah we might get, like, a single one of the big ships to represent the first in class coming off the line soon, but without a sizeable timeskip I'd rather take the smaller, incremental upgrade that we can crank out 30 of before the war's over.
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Aug 12, 2017 16:57
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Plus, it's not like we have capacity to easily handle missile waves and this is just superfluous unless facing IC alpha strikes. Better PD translated directly into faring better against earth forces in missile duels, especially if we capture shipyards that we have make IC designs and can throw down some alpha strikes.
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Aug 12, 2017 17:20
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My personal thought is the Levy isn't a huge upgrade over just producing more Sagan's and that's why I am in favor of the Battleships, because the heavy laser ones occupy a niche we don't really have of heavy armored laser brick, the Mons & Mariner look like reasonable designs, but they are split between being a pure beam or pure missile boat.
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Aug 12, 2017 18:05
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Might be a bit meta-contextual but considering that Saros is unlikely to have Earth MAD the thread into radioactive dust or steamroll the goon faction, and apparently there is a "crazy-advanced ancient aliens in galactic-scale conflict vs something" plot currently prologueing itself, the 'next' generation of capital ships designed with current tech will probably be obsolete before the shipyards finish retooling to build them. So the worst thing Mars may face is losing ships that would have been scrapped soon anyway, and maybe a blockade while the GM hints at noncombat/diplomatic/intrigue solutions. Gonna bet that the best-outcome resolution for the situation around Titan is to negotiate peace ASAP because there's an Earth fleet incoming (plus that whole subversion thing) and if they take control under the guise of 'maintaining peace' or whatnot, they'll effectively take permanent ownership of Saturn+moons and Jupiter will be next; regardless of what IC chooses they can't hold Titan anymore so their best option is to grant it autonomy and side with Mars as an informal federation that holds an oligopoly on sorium because otherwise they're about to lose the only thing keeping them from being a vassal which is Bad For Business. Mars provides edit: I guess this translates into "take the (preferably as nonviolent as possible) Revolution route and immediately start negotiating a peaceful resolution to both the uprising and the Mars-IC hostilities that takes into consideration what happens after the current fight is over" (Then delay/redirect that 'buyout+takeover' plan to take majority shares in the remainder of the IC eventually, but they don't need to know about that right now.) silentsnack fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Aug 13, 2017 |
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Aug 12, 2017 22:19
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So mulling over the designs more, I still like the Levy best but I think the extra armor is pretty overkill and would rather see just 3/4 layers of armor and more gauss turrets instead. The general thrust of the design and the idea of an incremental upgrade over the Sagan is still the best option on the table, but it could use a touch more optimization imo.
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Aug 13, 2017 00:59
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The Discord Design Board got to talking about what we need and the idea of a pure missile boat with endurance, as opposed to the alpha strikes of the IC designs, was requested. Here's what we came up with:code:CoffeeQaddaffi fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Aug 13, 2017 |
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Aug 13, 2017 01:41
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I throw my vote behind the new cruiser design, we already have an PD boat in the Sagan which is decent, and the Battleships per discord chat are probably not optimal with our tech, plus our Olympus Mons & Mariner Valley Class are actually decent knife fighters with their heavy plasma cannonade batteries.
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Aug 13, 2017 01:58
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Been out on vacation with no internet. Finally all caught up. If we are still tallying votes, add mine for the Type 8 and the Levy, and then Revolution over Topple. I wasn't a fan of senator warcrimes' plan in the first place and if these terran funded locals can help fix our ships, it would be worth it. Following that up with a deal proposal to earth seems our best option to me.
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Aug 13, 2017 10:17
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Jack2142 posted:I throw my vote behind the new cruiser design, we already have an PD boat in the Sagan which is decent, and the Battleships per discord chat are probably not optimal with our tech, plus our Olympus Mons & Mariner Valley Class are actually decent knife fighters with their heavy plasma cannonade batteries. I like this design too, but isn't voting closed now?
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Aug 13, 2017 22:45
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Pharnakes posted:I like this design too, but isn't voting closed now? It didn't make the cut off to get in the running in the first place.
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Aug 13, 2017 22:48
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 30 April 0200hrs  The Aftermath: Five hours have passed while the fleet polices debris and lifepods, siezes control of Titans orbital infrastructure, captures the remaining IC orbital weapon platforms and finally everyone rendezvous's over Titan.  Six platforms were captured over Titan or Rhea and the Rhea platforms were towed to Titan. The Mobil class PDC at Rhea also surrendered when the Marines bagan to land around it.  The captured Koshkin class destroyers have been towed to Titan orbit and are currently pending repair, both lack engines and require shipyard time. As an extra bonus the ten IC 'Acquisition' class fighters and a Profit class Fighter-Scout were in the middle of rearming rearming and were captured when the IC's main fleet installation in orbit fell to the Marines. IC ship Statblocks:       IC shipyards:   Six ships are under construction at varying states of readiness but currently the key sections of the shipyards are held by workers loyal to the Titan Free State so exact status is hard to determine. It looks like two cruisers, a Zuckerberg and a Bill Gates as well as two Marissa Mayer, a Koshkin and what appears to be a small 2000T ship similar to the stealth scout identified off Neptune some time ago. Fleet Status:  Six ships are damaged beyond simple repair and need time in Martian shipyards. More Missiles! and Tharsis are already underway to Neptune but the other four are dispatched as well.  In much better news the Victory is fully repaired and departs for Saturn. Unfortunately she is 11 days away so is unlikely to be in time for any upcoming scuffles.  None of the other cripples currently at Triton are going to be ready for at least 11 days. Combat ready ships:  Col. Bwengun is yet to be rescued but should be picked up soon. Bwengun, Bozikek and Lostcosmonaut have the option of taking command of captured IC forces or rejoining the normal officer que (please post a preference!) We also have eight Deimos class fighters and eight Meteor assault shuttles with eight companies of marines.  There is also a brigade available for drop. Supply status: As you are aware the fleet has only very limited ammunition stocks remaining. A significant portion of the IC's orbital infrastructure is held by workers of what is now emerging as the 'Titan Free State.' This includes nearly all of the IC's orbital missile stockpiles and quick-fabbing capability. Depending on the outcome of the vote we should either get access to them, be able to sieze some for our use or simply not need the supplies. Plenty of IC missiles will be available to restock the IC designs we have pressed into use and IC size 1 designs will fit in the tubes of our frigates. Size 2 missile designs are trickier but with some modifications IC size 3 shipkillers can be cut down via removal of an engine and fuel to create a design that roughly approximates Martian standard S2's. Numbers available will again vary with time and how co-operative the workers of the orbital facilities are. While the Harvesters were also siezed by workers of the Titan Free State fuel is plentiful around Saturn and a large depot was already taken by our Marines so all ships will be able to top off. Titan itself:  Fighting has slowed somewhat as all sides wait to see which way the victorious Martian fleet will jump. We have identified most of the forces engaging in combat on the ground. The Free State has superior numbers but lacks staying power and offensive capability. Titan Free State:  The IC:  The Situation:  Mars controls the Saturn moon system with no enemy ships on the scopes. White contacts are forces loyal to the Titan Free State.  The two fleeing ships continue outbound and are now 120m km from Saturn. The fighters can still overhaul them before they get anywhere though.  VOTING IS CLOSEDI will tally the numbers and see about our new designs and how bad the upcoming bloodshed will be. Saros fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Aug 14, 2017 |
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Aug 13, 2017 22:57
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