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I found the Dougie stuff deeply boring and irrelevant to anything. I think there were myriad ways for him to wake up much earlier in the show and still keep the plot going for that many episodes.
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Sep 5, 2017 20:04
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:On the whole I think this is my only persistent criticism of the show. I get that "I don't care about the viewer, here's a long cocktease" is Extremely David Lynch, but it went beyond frustrating – it really did diminish the quality of the overall work. I think you meant to say that he doesn't care about the viewer's time, not the viewers themselves. The whole thing oozes with obvious care, moreso than anything else on TV. If he didn't care he'd only be putting in as much effort to tell a story like every other show, him trying to affect the viewer is going above and beyond as a showrunner.
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Sep 5, 2017 20:04
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Why do people think Judy is the one who took past-Laura away when she was being led through the woods? Dale said he was taking her home, and we already saw her being sent from the Fireman's realm and that the particular portal where Cooper led her led to that same realm.
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Sep 5, 2017 20:06
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I don't think any of The Return was intentionally written as a "cocktease" to annoy viewers. This is just the story that Frost and Lynch wanted to tell.
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Sep 5, 2017 20:07
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I agree that it oozes with care, but it's not for the viewer. One reason I think the notion of "jiao dai" as explanation, or "handing over," is an accurate interpretation is because most of the time when Lynch is breaking medium conventions in this season it is in order to deny explanation. Character arcs are never completed and mysteries are never solved because Lynch doesn't feel the need to engage the viewer in a dialogue about the plot that way, because he doesn't care what you think you want. That's a primary reason the show is so successful, though.
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Sep 5, 2017 20:07
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One thing I noticed (you all probably noticed too) is that the sound we hear when Laura disappears when she is being led by Cooper in the woods is the same sound the giant plays for Cooper in the very first scene of season 3
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Sep 5, 2017 20:07
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paint dry posted:I don't think any of The Return was intentionally written as a "cocktease" to annoy viewers. This is just the story that Frost and Lynch wanted to tell.
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Sep 5, 2017 20:10
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Lord Krangdar posted:Why do people think Judy is the one who took past-Laura away when she was being led through the woods? Dale said he was taking her home, and we already saw her being sent from the Fireman's realm and that the particular portal where Cooper led her led to that same realm. I took Sarah's freakout as Judy/whatever lives inside her denying Cooper the ability to save her. The scream when she vanishes in the woods is the same scream when she vanishes in the Red Room in the first episodes of the season. Oh, and the sounds were the same. The Giant told us to listen ...
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Sep 5, 2017 20:13
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:Either way, that's what the Dougie plot amounts to. I couldn't disagree with this more, but I don't think I'll convince you otherwise, so ok.
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Sep 5, 2017 20:15
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People have been saying that the Fireman is potentially malicious. When Booper traveled through the Lodge Transport System (man, that room with Briggs' head and the golden tube was so much like a 90's video game, I loved it), the image first showed Sarah Palmer's place, then the Fireman swiped it over to the Sheriff's Station. When Booper landed, didn't he say "What's this place?" or something like that? What if the Fireman pranked him and didn't send him where he wanted to go but instead moved him to where Freddie was?
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Sep 5, 2017 20:18
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Dougie is pretty central to the ideas the season is playing with. Cooper ends the season (or even the show) in a nightmarish place because he becomes so focused on the past and the future that he forgets the present. A shot of him even from some time in the future even literally overshadows the moment of long-awaited victory over BOB and his doppelganger. As Dougie, however, Cooper only reacts to the present moment with no regard or motivation toward anything else.cjg posted:People have been saying that the Fireman is potentially malicious. When Booper traveled through the Lodge Transport System (man, that room with Briggs' head and the golden tube was so much like a 90's video game, I loved it), the image first showed Sarah Palmer's place, then the Fireman swiped it over to the Sheriff's Station. When Booper landed, didn't he say "What's this place?" or something like that? What if the Fireman pranked him and didn't send him where he wanted to go but instead moved him to where Freddie was? Seems like it, especially if Judy was in fact waiting for him inside of Sarah.
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Sep 5, 2017 20:20
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Dougie Jones is actually the best character in the show, and every scene with him was precious.
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Sep 5, 2017 20:33
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Dougie rules and all of the Vegas stuff wrapped up in a pretty satisfying way.
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Sep 5, 2017 20:34
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Shikantaza posted:https://www.avclub.com/there-should-never-be-another-episode-of-twin-peaks-1799304744 Linked in the piece, what a great video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgXLEM8MhJo Also love this comment (in a truly surprisingly example of unshitty youtube comments): quote:Daniel Gadomski2 years ago (edited)
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Sep 5, 2017 20:35
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Lord Krangdar posted:Why do people think Judy is the one who took past-Laura away when she was being led through the woods? Dale said he was taking her home, and we already saw her being sent from the Fireman's realm and that the particular portal where Cooper led her led to that same realm. I think the easiest answer is that hey had not yet reached the portal area and she wouldn't have screamed horrifically if she was going to the white lodge.
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Sep 5, 2017 20:37
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It's also worth mentioning that by saving Laura, Coop was presumably loving with whatever plan the Fireman had when he sent the thing down there in the first place.
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Sep 5, 2017 20:37
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Shageletic posted:Also he looks a lot like the probiscus cockroach that might have jumped into the young woman's mouth in ep 8 (who might or might not be Sarah Palmer). The Jumping Man stuff is weird because it does seem to be implying a really strong link between him and Mother / Judy, but in FWWM he seems to be a "lesser" spirit compared to Bob - I'd have to rewatch it but I think he's kinda dancing / hopping around and then Bob claps and he suddenly stops. Another explanation I guess is that all the black lodge spirits are just different manifestations of Judy that all go off and do their own thing to harvest suffering. And of course the Jumping Man's mask is also really similar to the one that Mrs. Tremond / Chalfont's grandson wears.
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Sep 5, 2017 20:40
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Lord Krangdar posted:Because Laura not getting killed that night doesn't explain any of the other changes to that world. Why would that remake her into a woman named Carrie Page? I got the impression that Carrie Page was a second life sort of situation. Her parents were still named Sarah and Leland. It seemed to me like in that world, she ran the gently caress away from her old life, changed her name and her identity and went into deep denial about what happened to her as a kid. To some extent the world might have been magically rewritten to accommodate it, but ultimately it seemed like it was some way of expressing this hypothetical scenario where she runs away and tries to live a new life as a new person.
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Sep 5, 2017 20:51
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I agree with the poster that said they wished the show hadn't been 18 episodes. There were a lot of emotional and atmospheric moments that surely could not have existed if the show had a shorter running time, but I genuinely wonder if it was worth the dragging of its feet inbetween to have those things. This show has had incredibly high highs, but also very low lows imo.
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Sep 5, 2017 20:51
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Capntastic posted:Been pondering a lot and came up with some important stuff OMF Lord! Brilliant! This is the TRUE ending to Twin Peaks!
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Sep 5, 2017 20:56
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I've had two different friends say I remind them of Dougie and I really don't know what to do with that information
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Sep 5, 2017 20:58
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The epilogue episode really felt like Cooper trying and failing to get the true end Ends up he needed to batter the guns before dropping em in the fryer, better luck next time Coop
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Sep 5, 2017 20:58
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I half-expected Carrie to say "Sarah and Leland were my aunt and uncle", and it turns out Maddie was alive in this alternate timeline or whatever it is.
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Sep 5, 2017 21:02
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Low Desert Punk posted:I've had two different friends say I remind them of Dougie and I really don't know what to do with that information Your friends may be sexually attracted to you, hth. tap my mountain posted:The epilogue episode really felt like Cooper trying and failing to get the true end Should have kept a donut to bribe the new owner of Sarah's house.
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Sep 5, 2017 21:02
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It was very much like the finale of season 2. He dives into some sort of Lodge world to save the girl, yet fails again in the end, and is trapped once more.
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Sep 5, 2017 21:03
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Cromulent posted:That's usually the philosophy I have going into a David Lynch film. It's just that this was so long, so dense, and co-written by Frost, that I thought we'd get a little more resolution on things. I'm fine with stuff like Jerry Horne lost, or Nadine and Jacoby, just being part of the scenery. It's the more main-plot related stuff that went nowhere/wasn't close to being explained that I take issue with (the box in Argentina, Fake Jeffries, the "actual" purpose for the glass box in NY and why the guard disappeared, etc). I didn't need everything wrapped up in a nice bow, but we weren't left with enough pieces to theorize what they actually are. I honestly would have been okay with an exposition dump from Cooper to Cole at the end of 17 or something. Cooper woke up seemingly knowing all, so I thought if nothing else he might fill Gordon in on exactly what the gently caress happened with his disappearance/reappearance, or what Bad Coop had been up to (Brazil/Colombia/Argentina). The fake Jeffries was prob Mike, the glass box was to trap or contact Mother, the guard disappaearing was prob supposed to happen at the appointed time she arrives, the box was prob bought by Booper and managed by the guy who got his head blown out Jennifer Jason Leigh.... There a lot of plausible answers if you wanna tangle them out yourself. e: handsome only face posted:i liked this shot in ep 11 with the black/white cars opposite as well If you're looking to dive into the deep end, this guy goes into a whirlwind of hypothesizing regarding the symbology, duology, and numerology he thinks is happening in the show: https://medium.com/@fatecolossal/the-dream-of-time-and-space-breaking-the-code-of-twin-peaks-f11484915098 Shageletic fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Sep 5, 2017 |
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Sep 5, 2017 21:33
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Cooper brought Laura to the dweller on the threshold What a goof up
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Sep 5, 2017 21:37
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Jerusalem posted:So I sat down and properly watched Twin Peaks for the first time in my life starting roughly in May, getting through the end of season 2/Fire Walk With Me just in time for I think episode 4 or 5 of season 3, and watched along weekly. I never had to wait (more than a week) for more Twin Peaks before, it was just always something there and available for me.
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Sep 5, 2017 21:38
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moist turtleneck posted:She also got to do a song at the Roadhouse since Lynch was really happy they got to use the house again lmao
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Sep 5, 2017 21:43
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kaworu posted:I really don't think she was supposed to, though. I think that was Judy's doing, and that if Cooper's plan had succeeded Laura and her family would have been free of BOB *and* Judy. Jesus, between that and "two birds one stone" that makes this ending bleak as gently caress. I like it even more. Coop was outplayed. Just hope if we get more it will be when Lynch is ready as this was stellar. Just rewatched FWWM again and I'd forgotten how good it was. Sheryl Lee is so drat brilliant. Always wondered why she and Chris Isaak didn't get more big time work. He was also fairly decent as Agent Desmond. Still hope further seasons do more with the Blue Rose task force backstory since Judy has always intrigued me. Well half hope as the mystery is also nice.
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Sep 5, 2017 21:48
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Man, that was a downbeat ending. Hopefully the final dossier will clear some things up. I did like how they tied the 'We're not going to talk about Judy' line from the film, which coud just be a non-sequiter, into the entire endgame of the series. If the end shot of Cooper and Laura at the lodge is meant to be taking place after the scream, at least they can chill in the red room rather than Judy's pocket universe thing at least?
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Sep 5, 2017 22:05
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what page is this? *thread gassed*
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Sep 5, 2017 22:15
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Low Desert Punk posted:I've had two different friends say I remind them of Dougie and I really don't know what to do with that information How is the answer not: repeat "Dougie" vacantly back to them
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Sep 5, 2017 22:23
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Low Desert Punk posted:I've had two different friends say I remind them of Dougie and I really don't know what to do with that information Point at your chest and say "Mr Jackpots"
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Sep 5, 2017 22:29
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moist turtleneck posted:She also got to do a song at the Roadhouse since Lynch was really happy they got to use the house again HAHA
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Sep 5, 2017 22:42
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I like your podcast  Also I'm still thinking about the end. The more I think about it the more I like it. Haven't felt like this since the end of The Sopranos.
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Sep 5, 2017 22:48
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This ending reminded me a bit of An Incident at Owl Creek Bridge, the Twilight Zone version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsGi8MHNAJs Including the aural cues. I didn't like it though.
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Sep 5, 2017 22:55
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no matter what you thought about the ending, the last minute is really good and haunting. Coops bewilderment followed by laura looking at the house and screaming. That final shot of the house looming in the dark night, then the lights go out, there's a flash and we're left in darkness with only the echoes of lauras scream. It's good imagery and it's been stuck in my head for the past day. i found the whole last episode to be steeped in good visuals and an amazing, slow, dreary atmosphere that you pretty much never see on television. so even if it made little sense to me (and i don't really think TP needs seperate dimensions/timelines added to it's already confusing mythos) i really dug it for that.
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Sep 5, 2017 22:56
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I mean I get it I think. Richard dreamt the whole thing up and the "white lodge" is his dream's projector room inside of his brain. The nuke from ep 8 is a dreamlike distorted image of ejaculation, signifying unsatisfying sex with someone he doesn't love from which the bad karma spirit BOB was born in a spermlike cloud. BOB was Cooper's self-image. Laura was a fantasy of an innocent victim for him to save from his own guilt, and at the same time a reminder of his guilt. I guess Lynch felt Cooper was too good to be true. It's like the silly Eddie Vedder song 2 episodes ago, about who you could have been had you done things differently, but you are now running out of time to change. The last part is where the dream oddly spills back into reality, because your fantasies structure your real life, like the Mulholland Drive scary face. But I don't like it because of how smarmy it is.
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Sep 5, 2017 23:09
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regulargonzalez posted:This is a great post. Even if I don't agree 100%, there's plenty there that I think is spot on. It also made me realize just how flawed Cooper is. On a first viewing of S1 & 2, it's easy to think he's the perfect FBI agent except for possibly failing his test of courage in the lodge. But really, he has a major Achilles Heel -- protecting or rescuing Lynch's archetypal "woman in danger". He completely fucks up when tasked with protecting Windom Earle's wife. He lets his gf Annie get kidnapped but debatably does play a role in rescuing her. He can't prevent Maddie's murder during his active investigation into her cousin's murder. When Audrey actively needs and asks for his help, he is of no use at so. And following the above theory, where the final scream from not-Laura indicates her waking up to a world where she will continue to be raped, he completely undermines Laura's decision to end her suffering. Thanks for the kind words. As I've thought about it and refined my own thoughts about the ending, what I think is nice is that it reaffirms Laura's role in her story. Personally, I'm okay with Twin Peaks being done, but how humbling would it be to see a story where Laura saves Coop in some sense.
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Sep 5, 2017 23:15
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