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Nevets posted:Don't think that's going to be an option. Don't we have video of it? Like I get not wanting to share stuff but if UT are going to literally do the thing that nearly got us eaten by cthulhu last time it might be prudent.
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Sep 15, 2017 17:02
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Nevets posted:Don't think that's going to be an option. That's true but counterpoint - that portal was only a hundred kilometres above Pluto & I'm presuming Pluto doesn't have an atmosphere. If United Terra starts looking interested in a Pluto JP then park a bunch of PDCs on Pluto armed with a
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Sep 15, 2017 17:03
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Nevets posted:Don't think that's going to be an option. As far as anyone can tell there is no Jump point out by Pluto and the Gateway that opened did not behave like a jump point. It was a Wormhole or Einstein-Rosen Bridge and you were able to both see and fire through it which you couldn't do through a jump point.
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Sep 15, 2017 17:06
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 4 June, 0550hrs  Pthighs looks over at the tech, "Are you sure?", the Tech's nod is all the answer he needs. He slams the general quarters button and the alarm starts howling from every speaker on the ship. Crew scramble to battle stations and the ship begins its lockdown procedure for combat. He flicks to the inter-ship tightbeam, "All ships reverse course, silent running. Frigates and Pater Familias prepare to turn solar east and the rest of you clear out!" The frigates come about, slowing to lag behind the retreating survey ships while one survey vessel remains to take advantage of its superior passive sensors. 4 June, 0650hrs  After a tense hour the Frigates turn solar east towards a point 20m km from the ringed planet. So far nothing has shown up on the scopes. 4 June, 0856hrs  After nearly three hours the frigates reach the assigned point, Pthighs hope that even if they are detected they will throw off pursuit by retreating on a vector away from the Sol jump Point. The other survey ships are still retreating away. Pthighs summons the sensor master control to his display.  PING.
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Sep 15, 2017 17:49
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F'thagn!
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Sep 15, 2017 18:04
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Make it so.
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Sep 15, 2017 18:50
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Nice. As cautious an implementation as could be wished for.
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Sep 15, 2017 19:03
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Well, it was nice knowing everyone.
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Sep 16, 2017 03:43
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Furiously  -ing to see if me and the Eureka are about to run out of luck.
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Sep 16, 2017 08:20
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Nevets posted:Overly cautious totally not afraid of xenos plan: This is roughly the same idea I was thinking off, Nevets put it across much better than I could though, also he isn't mildly retarded, so go with this.
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Sep 16, 2017 12:37
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Can we get details for what shipyard amounts/capacities we have available for the post-timeskip newly built ships? IIRC the top is 16k, but what slip sizes we have the most of for smaller vessels and support ships?
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Sep 16, 2017 19:25
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The active sensor reaches out, FTL pulses measuring the mass and spacetime distortions of the whirling pieces of debris around the fifth planet. Seconds elapse as the computers attempt to sort, analyse and discard millions of possible contacts one by one. In the end the matter is resolved for them before the sensors can pinpoint targets in the whirling chaos. "Active sensor emissions beginning! Low orbit of the fifth planet!" the sensor operator yells, "analysis coming in!" There is a long pause in which nothing appears on the master plot which prompts Pthighs to look up sharply at his sensor operator. The poor operator is furiously flicking back and forth from raw readings to the computers analysis as if he cannot believe his eyes. Catching his commanders questioning gaze the operator casts his own plot to the main display. "ID on four contacts in low orbit. I... um, well, see for yourself sir."  Surprise! The signatures are unmistakable. Four United Terran ships are orbiting the planet. Two missile destroyers, an 'Endeavour' class which is no doubt some sort of jump/survey capable vessel and an unknown 1450 ton class. "Incoming transmission from one of the destroyers" reports his comms officer. PThighs wracks his brain for some way out of this one but is unable to come up with anything. An important part of his orders was to preserve the secret of Martian jumpdrive abilities as long as possible but it seems that the cat may be out of the bag. He could potentially destroy the Terran ships before they can report home but he has no idea where the jump point they used to enter the system is located and if any survivors or other ships reported back it would be (correctly) interpreted as an act of war. There is no doubt the Terran ships have spotted his own detachment and if there are any other Terran ships in-system the secret of Martian jumpdrive possession is propagating out to them at the speed of light. He curses before waving his hand at the comms officer in the universally accepted vac-sign of 'go ahead.' A Terran officer resolves on the screen, if anything looking even more surprised that PThighs is feeling. "Martian ships", he begins, "This system is off limits and closed to non-Terran vessels, you have no authority to be here," there is a pause for a few seconds as he plainly struggles with his curiosity and confusion before blurting out "How did you get here anyway?"
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Sep 18, 2017 11:30
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Well gently caress.
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Sep 18, 2017 11:43
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lol
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Sep 18, 2017 11:44
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I'm lost, was this system behind the UT jump point or ours?
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Sep 18, 2017 11:59
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Ours, but it is entirely possible that they found another jump point leading to the system from their point.
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Sep 18, 2017 12:02
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New national anthem of Mars: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag1o3koTLWM
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Sep 18, 2017 12:07
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My guess is that Terra assumed that we would be a while of developing jump drives and had already deployed their own scouts through the point prior to signing the accords with us. May as well scout everything. These guys have been here for the last upteen months if not years surveying poo poo with the plan to quietly jump back to Sol with us none the wiser. We happened to stumble upon their little fact finding mission. Annoying for us. Options here: a) Talk to the Terrans and find out why they are here, how long they've been here etc. They maybe unaware of the accords if they've been away for this long. Maybe they will share their data; maybe we can huddle together in fear of the great unknown; maybe they will gently caress off back home to tell everyone about Mars having jump drives. If THEY try to start a fight; fine keep the logs going and run the loving jump ship away from the fight as fast as we can and tell the Terrans one of their captains fired on us. Maybe wring some concessions from them. b) Attempt to fight the Terrans and hope we win so nothing gets back to Sol to indicate we have jump tech. Good chance the lost scouting mission gets put down to any number of crazy unknown variables beyond "Mars has Jump Tech and killed out people" Sub options: b1) Blitz em' and pray we win. b2) Hope they haven't spotted our escort units yet and try to set up an ambush as we "attempt to leave." b3) Goad them into opening fire first THEN ambush them. That way if they do have survivors who get away we will at least have the logs that they fired first; thus putting the onus on them to make concessions or start a war.
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Sep 18, 2017 12:33
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Gridlocked posted:My guess is that Terra assumed that we would be a while of developing jump drives and had already deployed their own scouts through the point prior to signing the accords with us. May as well scout everything. Howwwww likely is it we could beat them and UT not know?
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Sep 18, 2017 12:58
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Comedy option is that their jump point leads to the same system as ours. Seems unlikely though.
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Sep 18, 2017 13:01
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Odds are ships that small don't have missile warning sensors so they wouldn't have much warning you were shooting them. However if there are other UT ships in the system they could escape to carry word and Earth would presumably come looking for its scouts eventually.
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Sep 18, 2017 13:03
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sebmojo posted:Howwwww likely is it we could beat them and UT not know? Well we'd have sweep the system to make sure there aren't others in the area, destroy them with no one escaping, gather up all the material remains and figure out how to dispose of them so Terra don't even have anything more than potential circumstantial evidence, and then pray that the Terrans don't ask questions and assume the worst. Sooo highly unlikely it would be 100% safe. Depends on how quickly we can conduct that sweep AND if we can win in an engagement. AND THEN we have to engage in what is literal war crimes because we can't even let a single Terran survive so we either'd capture them, interrogate them and then kill them or simply gather up all the debris from the battle and set it on a one way trip into this systems sun. On the flip side it is a potential opportunity to steal some Terran salvage with out them knowing if we manage to pull it off. But it is fairly loving evil of us to do so.
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Sep 18, 2017 13:03
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Weird double post.
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Sep 18, 2017 13:05
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Gridlocked posted:Well we'd have sweep the system to make sure there aren't others in the area, destroy them with no one escaping, gather up all the material remains and figure out how to dispose of them so Terra don't even have anything more than potential circumstantial evidence, and then pray that the Terrans don't ask questions and assume the worst. So, let's be conservative and call it a 50/50. It's a decision that is vastly beyond the paygrade of the in-system CO, since it carries an even risk of putting Mars at war with Terra.
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Sep 18, 2017 13:13
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If both the Jump Points lead here that would explain their reaction and the treaty. As far as negotiation goes, I'd start with the obvious. We got here by travelling through the jump point that was granted to us under the treaty signed between UT and Mars. Can you say the same? If not, please stand by while we check the treaty to see what it says about assets in the system(s) we have exclusive rights to. We're not loving about, but we're respecting the treaty.
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Sep 18, 2017 13:27
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Trying to outshoot them seems like a low percentage play that isn't worth the risk. We should probably just quote the treaty at them stubbornly and offer to escort them to "their point of entry", so they can get the gently caress out of Martian space.. Then we get a free look at whatever jump point they used (assuming they didn't get a good look at ours when we jumped in) which saves us a little survey time, they don't get an answer to how we got there, and we don't start a war we can't win. If they refuse to leave, well, then I guess they're just bandits pretending to be UT ships. Afterall, no REAL UT ships would so blatantly disregard the treaty. 
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Sep 18, 2017 13:31
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Their Sol JP obviously leads to this system as well or else they wouldn't claim it off-limits to all non-UT vessels. Don't know if it does so directly or via multiple jumps but I'm betting directly.
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Sep 18, 2017 13:39
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As a reminder, what are we in again so we can take down 2 missile destroyers, an 'Endeavour' class, and that unknown Terran ship, not counting anything else that could be in the system with us?
AmyL fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Sep 18, 2017 |
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Sep 18, 2017 13:45
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Now this is an unexpected and hilarious development.
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Sep 18, 2017 13:58
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 The conversation between commanding officers swings back and forth for a while, largely going nowhere as both sides are unwilling to reveal any details while both reiterate claim to the exclusive ownership of the system. Eventually PThighs proffers that Mars has the superior claim as the system is directly linked via the Martian owned jump point. At this the Terran commander looks alarmed before muting the channel and turning to give orders to his crew. PThighs uses the break to order one the Tangaroa class back to Sol at max burn to inform Martian high command of the situation. The Terran commander, a Commodore from his rank tags, turns back to the screen. "Colonel, it seems unlikely that we are going to resolve this dispute here and now and frankly I believe we will both have to wait on orders from above. We are currently engaged in a peaceful surveying and scientific expedition to uncover the rather obvious wonders of this system and you are welcome to do the same. We will not interfere with your operations and in fact I would like to invite you and your officers to dine on my ship, the Korbalev. It seems likely we will be sharing the same orbital space for some time." PThighs considers, "Thank you for your hospitality Commodore, I will have to get back to you on your kind offer. In the meantime we will continue our own exploration program while awaiting word from home." He closes the link to the Terran ship. "Options?" he asks his tactical officer. The officer shrugs, "The Terran Mauritius class is a slightly older model, it's likely that our two frigates could win a straight up fight but out here with no proper missile sensors whoever fires first is going to walk away the winner." His navigator pipes up, "Sir I've been analysing the Terran propaganda photos they released. They are heavily edited and background details like stars are removed but they could be a rough match for the frozen sixth planet. They show a main sequence yellow star which this system has but it doesn't appear to be bright enough in the images. Overall I would posit that based on the images we have they were not taken in this system but due to the level of editing I cannot be sure. " Pthighs thinks, his last chance of stopping word getting out is rapidly slipping away but is he prepared to risk war to cover up the secret of Martian jump drive? Saros fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Oct 7, 2017 |
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Sep 18, 2017 14:20
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Have Dinner
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Sep 18, 2017 14:28
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Risking war over our jump tech is a bad, bad idea. Realistically, even if everything goes exactly as planned, how much are we gaining by keeping our jump tech a secret? Their survey crew made it here once, and we don't know by what means. They could make it here again, and even if we're successful now they'll know they're missing a survey fleet and if they ever make it back and they find wreckage, they'll have a pretty good idea of what went down and we'll have war anyway. We should be ushering them along to get them out of our space before they steal all the fancy tech from that tomb world, though. Or at least away from that planet. We should offer the somewhat more neutral position that they retreat to their jump point until we can clear up this unfortunate "accidental" violation of Martian space. That will hopefully push them out of first strike range, too.
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Sep 18, 2017 14:33
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Come aboard and dine and chat like it's the age of sail. I hope the ship has at least one bottle of decent vintage aboard. Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Sep 18, 2017 |
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Sep 18, 2017 14:52
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The only reason we wanted to keep our JT a secret was to make UT underestimate us and get a head start on exploitation of this system that they claimed they didn't investigate. All of that is out of the window so we shouldn't start a war over keeping our JT a secret. We are now free to move publicly and start claiming this system.
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Sep 18, 2017 14:57
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Come aboard and have dinner At the same time, point out that the agreement about JPs means our claim to this system is far stronger, as we have access to it via our exclusive jump point, while they come through a side JP from their exclusive JP. We expect them to leave as soon as the dinner is over, and would prefer if they used the JP they came in, NOT our JP to Sol. At the same time, rush as many sub 3000 tons ships as we can spare to the JP, this means all Gales, Labous, Fangs, Shiappas, Hubble IIs that are available. We have both shorter communication and reinforcement routes as UT, we must make the most out of it. If we can learn about their entry JP, we can blockade it, MAD in Sol will prevent earth from trying to capture the Mars JP, which we should reinforce as much as possible anyways. The secret of our Jump tech is out of the bag, even killing all the earth ships here wouldn t help as they certainly reported their findings back when they arrived in this system before starting to explore it.
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Sep 18, 2017 15:03
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Sep 18, 2017 15:23
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Some thoughts, I'm generally against starting a war as I don't think that its a good idea immediately after our IC war has come to a close. That said there are a few things I think we need to do. Once word gets back to Sol, we need to get a few more military ships into the system and a few fleet scouts if we can. Have the scouts sweep the system and see if we can tell where the Terrans are currently. If we are able to scan prospective JPs, we should start surveying them immediately with escorted survey ships and see if we can figure out which JP the terrans came through, and where it leads. We need as much information as possible if this comes to another negotiation. We also know there are unknown horrors lurking out there, so its important that we try to keep humanity from blowing itself apart before we even know that we might be facing.
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Sep 18, 2017 15:30
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Pthighs does seem like he's a bit peckish, get a free dinner.
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Sep 18, 2017 15:33
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Zaodai posted:Trying to outshoot them seems like a low percentage play that isn't worth the risk. Zaodai posted:Risking war over our jump tech is a bad, bad idea. The Treaty of Luna was nebulous on ownership of downrange systems but fairly clear on the point of sole ownership of at least the first system. Most likely their sole ownership JP chain connects to this system. We don't want war (immediately), we do want them away from the ruins. Reciprocal agreement is sound but let's push that continued exploration under such dubious claims & high tension is a terrible idea for continued peace and we should both back off out of the system until receiving updated orders from command
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Sep 18, 2017 15:35
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The only reason to want a jump point is to eventually traverse it. So we were clearly going to get jump drives eventually, risking war to keep it secret that we already do is super dumb.
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Sep 18, 2017 15:52
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