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 Literally all you need to know about High Elf armies, right there. Shamelessly stolen from some dude on reddit.
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Sep 29, 2017 21:51
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On Lizardman talk, I'm 90 turns into Mazdamundi, I settled as far north as the fallen gate with it's great unique building for temple guards and as far south as Spektazuma for the gem mine income for the majority of the game, it meant I didn't have to roam my armies far and could have small peacekeeping armies for rebellions and ritual defense, the first ritual was the roughest to defend and had to rebuild a little but it wasn't so bad, the bonuses you get during the ritual can save you a lot of money on upkeep. If it wasn't for the darkelves invading I would of pushed much further south into the jungle for more ritual currency and wiping out skavens and unruly lizards and elves. Some tips and insights from what I've done. Mazdamundi with enough levels can decimate armies practically by himself, just net a large cluster of troops and start throwing ruination of cities, banishments and comets on top of them and you will rack up hundreds of kills in seconds. Bring anti-archer units or units that won't rampage against the elves Saurus warriors get shredded chasing after elven archers and you can't even tell them to stop, you absolutely need to bring some cavalry or elite temple guard with Mazdamundi's discount to handle them, I never took the missile resistance traits in total war1, but they are absolutely required so your dinosaur riding heroes don't get focused and die in 5 seconds. Send a general or two off to explore the ocean, skull islands are a quick 10k gold and if you can find a island of construction materials ( -30% discount ) you can easily upgrade all of your cities to max everything, with stacked discounts star chambers cost 0 gold to build. I am not sure if knock-off Mazdamundi Slann priests are at all worth it to lead armies when you could instead bring a dedicated saurus lord on a T-rex to chomp everything. I decided the human settlers were part of the great plan and made a alliance with them and they were a great help in dealing with rebellions and the occasional war target. Having a early second general go down the blue line to pick up recruitment and troop discounts can be rather rewarding, I had him do all my recruitment and he could easily pick up rank 9 templar guards and rank 5-7 other troops and have a extra recruitment slot to do so. From short observation it seems Blessed variants of regular troops don't pick up bonuses related to that troop type, so probably best to used blessed versions of supplements to your main force you didn't bother to buff up, that said, the blessed saurus warrior is insanely good with perfect vigour that never goes below fresh, use them to climb ladders for no penalty. If you do decide to go north to spite the darkelves, look for "The ancient city of Quintex" it has a unique building that has insane income.
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Sep 29, 2017 21:57
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Helion posted:The Dark Elves are, as a civilization, legitimately the most horrible people in the world. Chaos does what it does because it is driven to act that way by the force of mortal emotions, but the Dark Elves do what they do for amusement. Well, they also do it for pragmatic purposes- their empire runs on slavery. And bloody sacrifices to Khaine. But in general they just really get off on doing horrible things. The mindset of the High Elves and the Dark Elves both come from the same place. In effect the starting point for both is that "We are obviously superior to all the other races around us" and they kind of diverge from there. High elves follow that up with "Therefore we are taking the mantle of savior of the world upon our shoulders and we will smugly let you know at every opportunity because gently caress you" while Dark Elves follow up with "Therefore we should be allowed to murder and enslave every last one of you because gently caress you." The fact that none of the other ostensibly 'good' guys in the warhammer world put up with the high elves poo poo is actually one of the funnier things about it.
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Sep 29, 2017 21:57
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Funky Valentine posted:The quest battle for Kroq-Gar's spear was incredibly touch and go. Kroq-gar being tailored for a Saurus/Cold One dual composition got me through that quest. 6 Saurus and 6 Cold Ones plus your starting Skink wizard were enough to do the job; the Saurus moved up the field while the Cold Ones wrecked the ambushers. Even the Witch Elves got destroyed thanks to the Skink hitting them with the armor/melee attack debuff, so the three dino packs just smashed into them from three sides. By the end, the most damage inflicted on my dudes were the Cold Ones that went head to head with the Hydra, but even then they held on thanks to Kroq-gar coming in to save the day on his dinosaur and some more buffs/debuffs from the Skink.
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Sep 29, 2017 21:59
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Gonkish posted:
Tyrion's quest battle for his armor is basically just the reverse of the Malekith quest battle that was shown off in the streams. Except I'd already basically won before the Teclis reinforcements even showed up, as everything got shot to death on approach. First the vanguard and then the main force in sequence - only real casualties were from side units clearing out the Cold One Knights on the flanks. Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Sep 29, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 21:59
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High Elf archers with 180 range are insanely good until you face some random pirate/chaos/dark elf hybrid dude raiding your home with elite chosen or a full feral dinosaur stack in the jungles.
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Sep 29, 2017 22:01
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:From short observation it seems Blessed variants of regular troops don't pick up bonuses related to that troop type, so probably best to used blessed versions of supplements to your main force you didn't bother to buff up, that said, the blessed saurus warrior is insanely good with perfect vigour that never goes below fresh, use them to climb ladders for no penalty. Nah, they work, I can confirm this. My Blessed Saurus are absolutely disgusting right now, hope I can pick up another 3x spawn so I can roll entirely with Blessed Saurus as Kroq-gar's melee core. They do so much damage, I don't think I even need Temple Guard.
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Sep 29, 2017 22:03
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DeathSandwich posted:The mindset of the High Elves and the Dark Elves both come from the same place. In effect the starting point for both is that "We are obviously superior to all the other races around us" and they kind of diverge from there. High elves follow that up with "Therefore we are taking the mantle of savior of the world upon our shoulders and we will smugly let you know at every opportunity because gently caress you" while Dark Elves follow up with "Therefore we should be allowed to murder and enslave every last one of you because gently caress you." The fact that none of the other ostensibly 'good' guys in the warhammer world put up with the high elves poo poo is actually one of the funnier things about it. Agreed, and they have fundamentally the same attitude, except the High Elves feeling that they deserve everything they have and the Dark Elves feeling that the world has stolen everything from them. Switch their places and they'd end up looking pretty much the same.
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Sep 29, 2017 22:04
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Flagellum posted:High Elf archers with 180 range are insanely good until you face some random pirate/chaos/dark elf hybrid dude raiding your home with elite chosen or a full feral dinosaur stack in the jungles. Seaguard should be making up your front line, and they have frankly insane defensive stats along with a decent anti-large bonus. And Chosen tend to be priority targets for bolt throwers. Or those 2-3 units of Swordmasters/Phoenix Guard you keep sitting around. They'll still be losing models as they close the distance under fire from 8-10+ archer units anyways.
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Sep 29, 2017 22:05
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Does Malakith even like the dark elves? It's a bit of a downgrade from almost being Phoenix king!
Real Cool Catfish fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Sep 29, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 22:21
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Real Cool Catfish posted:Does Malakith even like the dark elves? It's a bit of a downgrade from almost bro Phoenix king! I get the impression that while he is as horrible as any given Dark Elf, he *sees himself* as rightful lord as the High Elves. It isn't clear if he really has anything like a full realization of how monstrous he is- in his mind his whole sick society might seem to be a "temporary measure" until he regains his rightful throne.
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Sep 29, 2017 22:25
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I think I found a little exploit as Mazdamundi, in Macu Peaks you can build a marble quarry for -30% construction costs in the region and Mazdamundi's starting bonus is -50% cost for Star Chambers, which let's you build Star Chambers for 900g or free if any discount events are running but it won't reduce the gold you get back from destroying the building, just repeatedly build Star chambers and destroy them for the 3600g return. I won't abuse it, but it's something to keep in mind that should probably see a patch if possible with how many construction discounts they give away in warhammer2. Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Sep 29, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 22:28
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Real Cool Catfish posted:Does Malakith even like the dark elves? It's a bit of a downgrade from almost bro Phoenix king! They're the ones who are loyal to the One True King. sure, a lot of them are jerks, but y'know. they had his back, so he's got theirs, at least in the abstract. on which note, one of the unit/lords on the table for the inevitable expansion DLC is Alith Anar, the Shadow King, and his Shadow Warriors. sure, Nagarythe loving sucks now, but it's still a kingdom of Ulthuan. and it has a king. and it has people. the descendants of the elves who, when Prince Malekith of Nagarythe said "I AM THE TRUE PHOENIX KING" said "uh, my lord, no offense, but you can gently caress right off with that bullshit." the few of them that are still around are pretty good guerilla warriors! because Malekith's got a standing order that the heads of those who betrayed him are worth their weight in gold!
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Sep 29, 2017 22:35
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 Close Victory my rear end, these puny elves have lower kill counts than my skaveslaves. Granted, the AI in this game seems absolutely terrible. They gathered in a giant impenetrable square and got tore to pieces by my artillery and allowed me to surround them while some skaven units patriotically absorved all the arrows. Skaven loving rule. Use the million poisonous units in woods to surprise fast units and give them a big ol' Spear rat unit treatment if they try to attack your ranged rats, drown then in slaves, have clanrats spawn everywhere and have Queek murder all the pathetic princesses and generals the pointy eared gits can muster. And i haven't even unlocked the doomwheel. Game rules, can't wait until someone makes a proper AI mod.
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Sep 29, 2017 22:40
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Yeah it seems like the tactical AI is a step backwards for some reason
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Sep 29, 2017 22:41
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Helion posted:I get the impression that while he is as horrible as any given Dark Elf, he *sees himself* as rightful lord as the High Elves. It isn't clear if he really has anything like a full realization of how monstrous he is- in his mind his whole sick society might seem to be a "temporary measure" until he regains his rightful throne. Khaine is literally the Elven God of 'Doing Wrong To Do Right' (they just contextualize that as the awful crime of actually killing another elf) and he's built his entire half of his crazy torture canadians to do nothing but scream about how Khaine is the overriding principle of all things. That cannot be coincidence. He is the crazy, stupid rear end in a top hat going 'I'M JUST MAKING HARD CHOICES AND DOING WHAT I HAVE TO' to complete his edgelord jackassery.
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Sep 29, 2017 22:42
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As far as I can tell in the few battles where we've fought toe-to-toe, Skaven AI really has no idea how to defend against other skaven or how to use their burrowing clanrats at all. In the first quest battle, they've some nasty catapults that they don't bother to keep any melee troops near to protect them and they seem totally shocked when you take those catapults into melee by bursting some clanrats in their faces. Similarly, they don't really seem to deploy their own burrowers in good positions to flank or rear-charge. Even the timing of when they bust them out feels pretty random. Do AI mods typically have the sort of granularity to adjust the really tiny decisions like those?
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Sep 29, 2017 22:44
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Memnaelar posted:
Not really, no. They just exchange some stupid bad decisions with other equally exploitable problems.
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Sep 29, 2017 22:47
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Memnaelar posted:As far as I can tell in the few battles where we've fought toe-to-toe, Skaven AI really has no idea how to defend against other skaven or how to use their burrowing clanrats at all. In the first quest battle, they've some nasty catapults that they don't bother to keep any melee troops near to protect them and they seem totally shocked when you take those catapults into melee by bursting some clanrats in their faces. Similarly, they don't really seem to deploy their own burrowers in good positions to flank or rear-charge. Even the timing of when they bust them out feels pretty random. The AI has problems with artillery period. I got an invasion from a human pirate faction and i attacked it only to find out they had two mortar units AND the game placed them on top of a hill with only one way to climb. I though i was going to be obliterated but the mortars just kept circling around up there and sometimes would fire the occasional mortar ball. It's possible to change some AI parameters to make it a bit more challenging, i'm not sure what CA did here but the AI is absolutely incompetent and it kinda throws the challenge away.
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Sep 29, 2017 22:48
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Mods now please. Just had my level 12 warp engineer dude assassinated by a level 4 dinosaur. gently caress that
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Sep 29, 2017 22:51
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DeathSandwich posted:Well I figure I'll put a few words down on Lizardmen since that's what I've been playing and I'm hearing a lot of people complaining about trying to bust them in campaign. I figure it gives me a venue to gush about them here as well and go over some of their strengths and weaknesses. This is a really helpful post. What are your feelings on Kroxigor and Temple Guards? It's the only remaining question I have after suvh a comprehensive post.
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Sep 29, 2017 23:06
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I hope the modellers and animators who made the Hell Pit Abomination got a raise & a nice vacation afterwards
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Sep 29, 2017 23:13
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Ze Pollack posted:They're the ones who are loyal to the One True King. sure, a lot of them are jerks, but y'know. they had his back, so he's got theirs, at least in the abstract. Yeah but also he IS the one true phoenix king and they are traitors.
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Sep 29, 2017 23:21
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Fun fact for you helf players; there are, of course, two Vaul's anvil named provinces. (Three, but that one isn't not on this map.) The second one is in delf land and is a wayshard location, so it's nice to have. It also has a landmark building on it to give you -10% glocal unit upkeep. You probably should go get it.
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Sep 29, 2017 23:23
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StashAugustine posted:Yeah it seems like the tactical AI is a step backwards for some reason I definitely got that feeling after about 60-70 turns; instead of some halfway decent formations like TWW1 the AI just blobs their poo poo together. It also doesn't help that the controls feel a bit wonky (to me). The first TWW I would lock control groups and that worked well enough; they would still engage the enemy yet not run off too badly (I never did use the guard command for some reason). Now I find units out right not doing anything once the formation they are fighting routes no matter what stance I put them in. Edit: With that being said, Lizardmen are still fun as hell to play and I can't wait to try out the skaven.
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Sep 29, 2017 23:23
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Wind Blast in heavens is stupidly good, it mulches like an entire unit of helf archers in one shot. I don't even have the gates down in this siege battle and my skink priest has like 300 kills already
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Sep 29, 2017 23:28
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I got a blessed spawning of three saurus units on turn four. They sure are putting in some work already
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Sep 29, 2017 23:35
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someone remind me the differences between hard, very hard, and legendary?
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Sep 29, 2017 23:36
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I really don't like either Southlands start. Tyrion is fun. Murder elfs, murder the other elfs, gently caress with people. Malekith is fun. Murder elfs, murder the other elfs, gently caress with people. Lustria is loving hotzone central. It's constantly popping off between Morathi/Mazdamundi and Teclis/Skrolk, plus all the other factions there. The whole "Luthor Harkon doesn't even exist, VC will be a DLC...." stuff is cool for like, when that is released, but if feels a little off right now. Southlands just feels loving barren. It's Queek vs Kroq'gar no other options, and that's not a fun fight for either. Once you beat your rival the whole map feels unfinished. Go north and fight not yet Araby. Go north and fight not yet Tomb Kings. It feels super unfinished, and both campaigns I started on Southlands feel almost like an early access version of this game.
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Sep 29, 2017 23:39
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Finally got some free time to actually play the game. Dipped my toes with a bit of everyone but the High Elves and Mazdamundi. -Southlands loving sucks. Both Queek and Kroq-Gar's starts are boring and worse for being so close together. Inevitably playing one I'd run into a doomstack of the other and we'd sit a settlement apart glaring angrily while building emergency stacks to drum up the numbers. -Malakith's start also sucks. Beastmen pop up if you so much as sneeze, everyone hates you and inevitably one of the Norse factions will crush a lesser Delf faction and start rolling around with at least 4 stacks full of chariots. -Caster Lords are so much fun holy poo poo. Skrolk, Mothrai and Malakith can pretty much solo things with a well-placed Pestilant Breath/Bladewind and that's hilarious. -Maybe it's just the way I play games, but the ritual mechanic always makes me feel rushed, even if things haven't gotten dire yet. Even with the Chaos endgame in 1 I felt like I could take a breather, build up what I have. This game I feel like I have to constantly be on the assault, even if things seem quiet. -The AI seems to have regressed since 1. Multiple times they'd abandon a built up city in favour of a smaller settlement, or even go colonise a ruin once they spotted me getting too close. They've still retained their lust for building redundant buildings in the same province. Skaven AI seems to love clumping up on one spot on the battlefield, any flanking is purely accidental.
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Sep 29, 2017 23:41
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Mans posted:It's possible to change some AI parameters to make it a bit more challenging, i'm not sure what CA did here but the AI is absolutely incompetent and it kinda throws the challenge away. Yeah I've dealt with similar problems on my end. In particular I've had an army of Dorfs that could have crushed me and instead stood just outside of skirmisher range, getting pounded by arty until I ran out of ammo and then just stood there until the timer ran out. Hieronymous Alloy posted:someone remind me the differences between hard, very hard, and legendary? Buffs enemies statistically, no change to AI behavior. Set it only as high as you hate yourself.
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Sep 29, 2017 23:50
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:someone remind me the differences between hard, very hard, and legendary? Going off of TWW1 since haven't used PFM (if it works yet?) to look at it in the second game: In the Battle Layer you lose leadership on all troops at each step up while enemy troops gain leadership/other stats at a % rate. This basically is a check on using quick-rout strategies that the AI cannot or loading up on high stat units early and punishes your own mistakes a bit more. Map Layer AI gets things like more recruitment slots, more income, and more public order bonuses while you get more public order penalties. This is so they can actually keep pumping out armies effectively without having to fuss over territory management and, if it's as extreme as the first game, the public order bonuses will be big enough to basically prevent the same level of rebellion cheese as previous games allowed. On Legendary you are also in ironman and battle realism mode, so you cannot manually save, the game auto-saves every action, you cannot pause battles and you cannot move the battle camera beyond your troop's field of view. If it's any different for the second game it's likely stuff like more passive ritual resource gains or more slaves gained per battle for delves and such. I've noticed the AI does seem to advance rituals faster on higher difficulties just from playing around. Basic idea of each difficulty increase is to cut down on cheese and punish mistakes more heavily. In a lot of previous games the first part of that usually failed so the end result was a bunch of annoyances you could still cheese through anyway--though why not just play on a lower difficulty and not cheese at all--but at least for TWW1 I felt it was a decent balance once you got used to stuff like your own lords failing to duel other lords. Haven't played far enough in TWW2 to have a real opinion here beyond "Very Hard feels fine I guess".
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Sep 29, 2017 23:53
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So the high elf ritual Vaul's something or other gives you a bunch of buffs to elite units, but it also gives you an ability you can use in siege battles. Infinite range, targets any wall section and it literally explodes, killing the poor units standing on top of it. Mosey on up to a lizardmen capital with my teclis early game stack of spears and archers, no time waiting to build seige weapons, just waltz right in the new door
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Sep 29, 2017 23:54
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SteelMentor posted:Finally got some free time to actually play the game. Dipped my toes with a bit of everyone but the High Elves and Mazdamundi. Yeah the Southlands seem almost incidental to the Vortex race which makes sense if that continent will be the focus of the Tomb Kings and Araby not-Vortex campaigns. For now it's just a big blob of lovely climate provinces.
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Sep 29, 2017 23:58
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I'm wondering if warp lightning cannons are the best artillery unit in either game. They are absolutely devastating.
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Sep 30, 2017 00:20
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If Malekith was doing the wrong thing he would not have ended being in charge of all the elves 
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Sep 30, 2017 00:28
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Southlands is weird cuz right now it's boring, but later on it'll be extremely crowded.
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Sep 30, 2017 00:30
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:someone remind me the differences between hard, very hard, and legendary? Hard: You get leadership and public order penalties, AI gets bonuses to those and extra background income for each AI faction Very Hard: You get even more leadership and public order penalties, AI gets even more bonuses to income, public order, and leadership Legendary: All of the penalties for you and bonuses for the enemy. Also you can no longer issue orders while paused in combat, you dont get to see the balance of forces bar, and I think you also cant manually save right before a battle.
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Sep 30, 2017 00:30
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Ammanas posted:I'm wondering if warp lightning cannons are the best artillery unit in either game. They are absolutely devastating. Pre-release I was expecting them to be another case of the luminark of hyst since the projectile looks similar and them being useless and never firing, is that not the case?
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Sep 30, 2017 00:31
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Pre-release I was expecting them to be another case of the luminark of hyst since the projectile looks similar and them being useless and never firing, is that not the case? well you get 3 per unit, so by my rat math, that makes them at least 3x better than a luminark
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Sep 30, 2017 00:32
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