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Vortex is funner than map painting but it needs tweaking. Especially Chaos spawning in the inner ring of Ulthuan. WTF is the point of the gates?
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Oct 9, 2017 20:17
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Raze their islands, problem solved. Yeah, I'm pretty much going to have to secure two fronts with stripped-down armies and send off Kroq-gar to purge the islands eventually. I'm thinking it might be possible to gently caress with their AI some by splitting their empire in two and hoping they recruit new armies in the continent proper instead of the islands, leaving them open to dinosaur rampage.
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Oct 9, 2017 20:21
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My Kroq-Gar campaign is continuing to be amazing. I'm having constant issues keeping any sort of reasonable income, but on the plus side my main stack quickly wiped out the Skaven and is now rampaging through the desert in the north. If you though Lizardmen vs Skaven was funny to watch you should really see Lizardmen vs Vampire Counts. For one notable battle I held back the majority of my army and just let the dinosaurs go to town and it was GLORIOUS. My skink priest alone broke 800 kills, mostly via spamming chain lightning on cooldown.
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Oct 9, 2017 20:23
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Vortex is funner than map painting but it needs tweaking. Vortex is a way more interesting map with way worse objectives. End-of-life Hams with $60+ dollars of DLC dumped in it is better than Hams2, but the second game's starting races and starting map are light years beyond the first's starting races and starting map. This is why everyone is excited about Mortal Empires: in theory, its the best of both games minus the worst of both games.
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Oct 9, 2017 20:28
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:WTF is the point of the gates? to piss me off
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Oct 9, 2017 20:31
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I did terrible things to a Dwarf army a while ago, and let's just say that Karak Eight Peaks and the Badlands is going to be a real loving hoot when I can finally take Queek there.
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Oct 9, 2017 20:33
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toasterwarrior posted:Yeah, I'm pretty much going to have to secure two fronts with stripped-down armies and send off Kroq-gar to purge the islands eventually. I'm thinking it might be possible to gently caress with their AI some by splitting their empire in two and hoping they recruit new armies in the continent proper instead of the islands, leaving them open to dinosaur rampage. Their islands are a huge pain in the rear end to take too. You will 100% need someone with lightning strike. What happened when I moved to invade them was they parked an actual army in the settlement and recruited a bunch of lords on each island so that I could only land one army at a time on the beach. This meant I either need to sail to the other side of the island and land on another beach (this is only possible for two of the three islands though) or land one army to face at least two empty stacks, the stack in the settlement, and the settlement garrison. If you sail around they'll bring reinforcements from another island, if you land and you don't have lightning strike, you're in for a tough fight. This was on VH so maybe the AI won't be quite as smart if you're playing on lower difficulties. Edgar Allen Ho posted:Vortex is funner than map painting but it needs tweaking. I liked the Old World better as a setting/map better, this one has more interesting races/mechanics. The vortex map just feels really big in a way that WH1 didn't, and every faction start feels isolated from the action. Base game vs base game, WH2 is definitely better, but it doesn't feel as fun as WH1 yet. Probably due to the fact that it's still the base game and we don't have all the cool mods and DLC you can get for WH1 yet.
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Oct 9, 2017 20:33
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Kainser posted:I have no idea what the logic behind the Chaos/Skaven stack spawning is, sometimes they'd spawn in a sensible place 2-3 turns away from any city and sometimes they'd spawn in the middle of my empire. The intervention armies always spawned right next to my capital though and always waited around for their turn to besiege it if another intervention army beat them to it. They have set points they spawn in. Its not random. You can save start a ritual then see where they spawn and reload and move your stacks in place so they don't raze a bunch of your cities.
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Oct 9, 2017 20:51
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toasterwarrior posted:Yeah it's those assholes. And it's VH, so of course I should be expecting a billion dragons from their complete 3-settlement province. I didn't have to eliminate my nosy neighbors as Kroq until after ritual 2 or 3, but they offered me 100+ turns of friendly trade until they finally started declaring on my fellow Lizards. Pendent posted:My Kroq-Gar campaign is continuing to be amazing. I'm having constant issues keeping any sort of reasonable income, but on the plus side my main stack quickly wiped out the Skaven and is now rampaging through the desert in the north. If you though Lizardmen vs Skaven was funny to watch you should really see Lizardmen vs Vampire Counts. Wait til you get your geomantic web going, Lizards get insane income % stacking. Deified Data fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Oct 9, 2017 |
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Oct 9, 2017 20:54
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Beer Hall Putz posted:I agree. More varied victory conditions and the Chaos invasion was far more threatening/exciting than anything in the vortex campaign. The best strategy now just seems to be turtling and maintaining good relations with your neighbours (probably the same race and automatically liking you due to ritual mechanics). There is just no tension. I'm playing on very hard and I disagree on the "best strategy is turtling" but maybe agree on chaos being more threatening, kind-of-but-not-really. Forget the final battle business, the rituals are just very easy to stop since they'll randomly choose minor settlements and the AI rarely if ever builds walls on them. Or keeps stacks near them. And they don't re-settle them after you raze them. Sure, your upkeep is higher here but you still get loads of money for sacking/post-battle. If you're actually using your stacks they'll more than pay for themselves. When you start your own rituals you should have enough money built up to sit in the red with some defense stacks for a bit, if it's needed. They really need to add a new column to the building AI tables for higher difficulties so they can prioritize stuff like walls. Up their economic bonuses further or something and tell them not to build economic buildings. Beyond that, the AI really should be aware of where its ritual sites are and actively try to defend/re-settle them. I've never really seen it happen. It's also kind of funny that they increase the amount of norsca/chaos stack spawns on higher difficulties not just for you but for the AI as well so that really hurts them more than it hurts you, making the ritual even easier. All of that said, chaos wasn't really hard in the first game either. Their AI was bad--if you used an agent to halt the movement of one portion of their doomstack the others would keep on trucking and leave it behind, rinse and repeat and no more massive doomstacks, no LS needed--and they were more a threat to other AI than you. So, kind of the same issues as the ritual campaign just more noticeable because it's all throughout rather than just the tail-end.
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Oct 9, 2017 21:05
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Tenzarin posted:They have set points they spawn in. Its not random. You can save start a ritual then see where they spawn and reload and move your stacks in place so they don't raze a bunch of your cities. It doesn't actually work like that, though it seems to at first. The spawns are tied to one of your non capital ritual city, and this city is random every turn. If your Empire is anything beyond 2-3 provinces, or worse, you playing as HE because that island is pain, the armies can spawn on the complete rear end end of your empire, as there are more cities in different provinces for the RNG gods. Though I did notice in my HE campaign once I had Ulthuan mostly owned that the chaos armies have 3 set spawns on the island, on the outer left/right and inner top. But you can not try to savescum your armies into place, because one turn they will spawn in one place, the next they will change. Only the faction intervention armies spawn in exact locations, right outside the capital.
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Oct 9, 2017 21:08
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I wonder how Wood Elves are going to change for the Mortal Empires campaign. Still being limited to only 4 (or 5 if you count Oreon as well) main cities to make the bulk of your economy happen seems like it would be kind of miserable and I would guess they would more than likely not be doing the Oak of Ages (though they may still be doing Amber? It would make sense as far as the technology/opposing aspect units went). If Mortal Empires is straight up "Paint the Map Your Color" I would hope that WElves would then get more readily defensible provinces outside of Athel Loren otherwise it does limit how far out you can expand before rogue armies or beastmen herds or an aggressive neighbor starts loving with your poo poo and forcing you to run support armies to keep your backwoods provinces cleared. Between both games, I think Empire, Welves, and Norsca are probably my favorites with Lizardmen being the MVP of game 2 so far.
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Oct 9, 2017 21:30
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My favorite thing about my Kroq campaign has been my dwarf BFFs. On my way up to conquer the undead kingdoms, I swung through the mountains and razed out the savage orcs for my dwarf buds to reclaim. I also used war targets to get them to settle in the uninhabitable (for lizards) top knots territory, as well as the mountain settlements next to Araby. They've stuck by me when declared an assimilation war on my lizard neighbors, bretonnians, high elves, they don't give a poo poo. I just tell them where to go and they send stacks of longbeards and grudge throwers to deal with it
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Oct 9, 2017 21:31
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Honestly improving the chaos spawns should be as easy as making more of them but putting them in a little invasion corridor so you actually can prep for them. It'd be pretty cool to give the Ulthuan gates a use.
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Oct 9, 2017 21:33
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Sedisp posted:Honestly improving the chaos spawns should be as easy as making more of them but putting them in a little invasion corridor so you actually can prep for them. It'd be pretty cool to give the Ulthuan gates a use. That was the nice thing about the TWW1 campaign was that if you were able to get situated in kislev early enough, you could set up an incredible ambush/lightning strike killbox basically right at the border between Kislev and Bearsongling camp. The trick was getting there and rooting yourself in place before the initial invasions started though. Once Kislev was burned to the ground it got much harder to rebuild and also establish the beachhead.
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Oct 9, 2017 21:39
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Vortex is funner than map painting but it needs tweaking. For me, I think Chaos spawned in the exact same spot every ritual, which started about 3 turns away from my northern border but by the third ritual was the center of my heartlands. I'm sure it's not going to be easy fix, but it would be nice to have an algorithm to keep them spawning outside your borders. Intervention stacks always spawned right next to my capital so it's easy to just get General Nobody and 19 of his friends garrisoned there when I hit the ritual button. The increased size on capitals makes it easy to have a free building for Emergency Drafting if things go bad too. Ultimately I don't think the ritual system is as busted as some of the posters in this thread like to claim, but the game would massively benefit from a patch.
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Oct 9, 2017 21:39
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DeathSandwich posted:I wonder how Wood Elves are going to change for the Mortal Empires campaign. Still being limited to only 4 (or 5 if you count Oreon as well) main cities to make the bulk of your economy happen seems like it would be kind of miserable and I would guess they would more than likely not be doing the Oak of Ages (though they may still be doing Amber? It would make sense as far as the technology/opposing aspect units went). If Mortal Empires is straight up "Paint the Map Your Color" I would hope that WElves would then get more readily defensible provinces outside of Athel Loren otherwise it does limit how far out you can expand before rogue armies or beastmen herds or an aggressive neighbor starts loving with your poo poo and forcing you to run support armies to keep your backwoods provinces cleared. They may be a bit generous to Wood Elves with climates to allow them to expand more than they could in WH1. I doubt they'll ONLY have enchanted forests as a suitable climate, and they'll probably at least have the ones the High Elves like as unpleasant at worst.
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Oct 9, 2017 21:43
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Electronico6 posted:It doesn't actually work like that, though it seems to at first. The spawns are tied to one of your non capital ritual city, and this city is random every turn. If your Empire is anything beyond 2-3 provinces, or worse, you playing as HE because that island is pain, the armies can spawn on the complete rear end end of your empire, as there are more cities in different provinces for the RNG gods. You can still move armies, save, start the ritual, check spawn locations. Was about to do ritual 2 for the HE, but I also had DE that might be attacking. So I started the ritual and the 3 chaos stacks razed some cities and the DE also decided to attack. I said gently caress that and reloaded and just fought the DE instead. I didn't attempt to start the ritual for like 20 turns and when I did the chaos stacks spawned in the same spots. You can definitely save scum to protect yourself from the chaos stacks.
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Oct 9, 2017 21:50
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Tenzarin posted:You can still move armies, save, start the ritual, check spawn locations. Was about to do ritual 2 for the HE, but I also had DE that might be attacking. So I started the ritual and the 3 chaos stacks razed some cities and the DE also decided to attack. I said gently caress that and reloaded and just fought the DE instead. I didn't attempt to start the ritual for like 20 turns and when I did the chaos stacks spawned in the same spots. How many provinces in total you had at the time, and how much spread? Cause in my experience I was never able to have Chaos armies spawn in the same place once I had most/all of Ulthuan. Edit: Though there is one thing that changes if you savescum, and that is the amount of armies that actually show up. Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Oct 9, 2017 |
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Oct 9, 2017 22:04
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I still have no idea how anyone is finding these rituals that hard to deal with unless you are running armies full of dragons and hellbeasts and can't afford to put walls and economy armies far enough out to cover what you should expect
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Oct 9, 2017 22:12
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Third World Reggin posted:I still have no idea how anyone is finding these rituals that hard to deal with unless you are running armies full of dragons and hellbeasts and can't afford to put walls and economy armies far enough out to cover what you should expect They're not hard, they're irritating. Also a walled settlement by and large will get trashed by chaos spawns.
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Oct 9, 2017 22:13
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Chaos/Norsca have set locations that are randomly chosen. code:edit: Ah, nope, they'd be set with the ritual sites. Might be random or might not be depending on the site and how many there are to choose from, I guess. code:Decus fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Oct 9, 2017 |
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Oct 9, 2017 22:15
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Third World Reggin posted:I still have no idea how anyone is finding these rituals that hard to deal with unless you are running armies full of dragons and hellbeasts and can't afford to put walls and economy armies far enough out to cover what you should expect The spawns themselves aren't hard to deal with, but walled settlements even the ones from capitals will usually not be able to deal with the spawns from R4/5. That the spawns spend most of their lifespan razing your settlements to the ground, instead of seeking the targets towns, just turns them into busywork during and after the ritual, instead of a real mid to late game challenge. Nothing about hitting that ritual button is remotely fun or interesting, beyond the funny Lizardmen/Skaven adventures, which you can just see on Youtube. Also there isn't even that giant Chaos Lord from the first game, nor do the chaos units feel that interesting to fight. Decus posted:edit: Ah, nope, they'd be set with the ritual sites. Might be random or might not be depending on the site and how many there are to choose from, I guess. Yeah this is basically it. The game looks at your city/province lists, it chooses one/two at random, and will put the chaos armies as close as possible to those, so the wider you are the more locations seem to be available, while places like Ulthuan due to it's geography only have so many places where 4-6 stacks can show up.
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Oct 9, 2017 22:23
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:My favorite thing about my Kroq campaign has been my dwarf BFFs. On my way up to conquer the undead kingdoms, I swung through the mountains and razed out the savage orcs for my dwarf buds to reclaim. I also used war targets to get them to settle in the uninhabitable (for lizards) top knots territory, as well as the mountain settlements next to Araby. They've stuck by me when declared an assimilation war on my lizard neighbors, bretonnians, high elves, they don't give a poo poo. I just tell them where to go and they send stacks of longbeards and grudge throwers to deal with it These two have been in an eternal stalemate in my game for 100+ turns. The Dwarfs used to be bros but broke all ties, but they're not dumb enough to wander south.
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Oct 9, 2017 22:28
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Electronico6 posted:How many provinces in total you had at the time, and how much spread? Almost all but Saphery. Third World Reggin posted:I still have no idea how anyone is finding these rituals that hard to deal with unless you are running armies full of dragons and hellbeasts and can't afford to put walls and economy armies far enough out to cover what you should expect The bad things happen when there are 2 chaos stacks, they can instantly raze a small town. The gates in the elf land are a blessing because they get amazing garrisons and can fight off crazy numbers but it takes almost 3-4 turns to move your own army through it! So getting to the inner ring might take you awhile, even worse if their 3 stacks spawned inside that don't have to wait for some siege equipment because they are zerging around. Then to make things worse, taking stacks off your outer ring means both DE sides are gonna try to swarm in and take some lands. And you want to keep a stack near your capital for invasion forces also, for HE you gotta have a gently caress ton of stacks. You might be able to just hold the inner ring for a small empire strat(the gates are a really good siege map for the defender also) as HE but then most likely DE are gonna take over the entire outer ring. Tenzarin fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Oct 9, 2017 |
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Oct 9, 2017 22:31
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I've heard of a funny bug that sometimes when the Skaven AI uses Dwellers Below the Clan Rats decide to spontaneously ignore unit collision and if there's a big monster nearby you can end up with this critical mass of Clan Rats that all synch stab the same target and do massive damage to it. Also, it seems like warpfire throwers can't use siege towers or get placed on walls. Is the game counting them as artillery? Irondrakes are the same type of unit and can go on walls fine, so this is weird.
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Oct 9, 2017 22:37
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Third World Reggin posted:I still have no idea how anyone is finding these rituals that hard to deal with unless you are running armies full of dragons and hellbeasts and can't afford to put walls and economy armies far enough out to cover what you should expect The rituals are easy but stacks with siege weapons that can raze your minor settlements, even the ones with walls, the turn that they're spawned are very annoying.
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Oct 9, 2017 22:59
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I tried messing with savescumming chaos stack spawns, and they seem to take your army positions into account as well. I tried to be really cheeky and place a couple stacks in ambush stance between the projected spawn point and the nearest cities. When I did that, they instead spawned on the other side of my empire. When I reloaded and moved my ambush armies to garrison those cities instead, they re-appeared in the expected position. On that note, chasing skaven stacks around lustria as lizardmen is a huge pain in the rear end, since they have underway movement and you don't.
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Oct 9, 2017 23:04
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I'm curious if they will give Runesmiths a buff now that magic in general is better. They will be at a big disadvantage now - I know my Skaven armies completely trounce dwarves with the great wind spells.
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Oct 9, 2017 23:14
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So if a Skink Chief runs out and assassinates one of my dudes is there any reason to reload the autosave or is it already locked in as suceeding every time?
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Oct 9, 2017 23:18
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cheese posted:I'm curious if they will give Runesmiths a buff now that magic in general is better. They will be at a big disadvantage now - I know my Skaven armies completely trounce dwarves with the great wind spells. Its weird because during the last TWW1 patch where they mostly majorly buffed magic, runesmith stuff got nerfed. And they were already fairly weak. Dwarves are probably straight hosed against everyone (except maybe High Elves?) right now. Lizards/DE/Skaven are going to absolutely run all over them. And they were already the weakest W1 race after Chaos got their RoRs.
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Oct 9, 2017 23:19
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The best way I've found to do it, is just consolodate a tight area of about 4-5 provinces. Build them all up to max everything you can, especially if it adds garrisoned units. Then do all the rituals one after another once you have all of your stacks upgraded and set up the way you want them with lots of experience. That way you can have all the upgrades and all the techs before you have to deal with any of the random assaults. EDIT: Also, lizards are the best army. Though I haven't played Skaven yet, I am saving them for the big combined campaign.
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Oct 9, 2017 23:20
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as high elves i don't bother with the ritual until i control or am allied with all of uthuan. by that point i can afford three cheap stacks to guard inner, west and east of the ring. spearmen and archers are all you need for a walled city defense. bonus if you get lords and heroes that lower costs. vortex still sucks tho. its an iteration of errantry war and the oak of ages that misses why those were fun.
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Oct 9, 2017 23:34
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Queek start on Very Hard is very hard. You only have enough money to fuel 1 mid-tier stack, while everyone around you hates you. Those Helves to the Southeast will happily send 3.5 stacks to gently caress your poo poo up every couple turns or so, and the Last Defenders will never settle for a ceasefire even if you force them to White Peace. They will invariably return with a poo poo ton of dinos. I solved the Great Welf question by committing to their complete destruction (and making a nice razed region for food raiding), but it came at the cost of The Last Defenders effortlessly trampling through my garrisons all the way to my home region. Barely made it back in time to repel the invasion with ambushes and lightning strikes, but drat. Goddamn dinos are beefy as gently caress.
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Oct 9, 2017 23:37
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So Morathi's start is kind of dumb. You can't get any trade agreements because the game doesn't understand how fords work and thus doesn't think anyone has a direct trade route to your capital. So trading is just not a thing that occurs initially, if at all. On top of that, her options for initial expansion are limited, unless you want to go sailing to Tiranoc on turn 10. Of course, if you do that then you'll be exposed to the inevitable, inexorable, endless Hexoatl Lizardmen hell parade that marches north solely and specifically to gently caress you up. Meanwhile Quintex is 8 slots, not 10, so you have to be especially picky about what you build and where. (Except it's really 7 because you absolutely want and need the unique building so your territory isn't constantly making GBS threads rebellions.) Oh and the province has multiple trade goods buildings... which are useless to you because you can't loving trade with anyone at all. It's just a miserable start. I know now why that guy in the pre-release dark elves coop had so many issues with Morathi: it's a confluence of terrible all rolled into one start.
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Oct 9, 2017 23:40
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This feels more balanced on higher difficulties than previous TWs, warhammer 1 included. People will actually engage in diplomacy on legendary rather than requiring 20000 gold to consider a non aggression pact that they break anyway a turn later. Hopefully that system is what's in Mortal Empires.
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Oct 10, 2017 00:08
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I think I'm gonna need to restart on my Malekith run. I expanded too hard into Druchii territory to the south (Clan Karond and Karond Kar) and let the Mung/Aghol get out of hand and it just became a totally unmanageable poo poo show 
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Oct 10, 2017 00:26
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Gonkish posted:On top of that, her options for initial expansion are limited, unless you want to go sailing to Tiranoc on turn 10. Of course, if you do that then you'll be exposed to the inevitable, inexorable, endless Hexoatl Lizardmen hell parade that marches north solely and specifically to gently caress you up. Everything north of the Mirror of Tepok city for lizardman is uninhabitable for them. So even if they push up their city progress will be gimp. Also lizardmen hate chaos corruption if you can spread that into their lands. And if you cover your lands with chaos corruption with it they will have suffer losses if they raid. Morathi likes chaos corruption doesn't she?
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Oct 10, 2017 00:53
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Mazdamundi has too many bound spells and now Ruination of Cities just doesn't appear as an option in battle. Is there any way to fix this? 
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Oct 10, 2017 01:01
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HannibalBarca posted:Mazdamundi has too many bound spells and now Ruination of Cities just doesn't appear as an option in battle. Is there any way to fix this? Replace one or more of your equipment that has bound abilities/spells for something that hasn't.
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Oct 10, 2017 01:17
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