Tae posted:

Reminds me of Valkyrie Profile 2 in which you couldn't get all the warriors in one playthrough. Which sucked because some were WAAAAY better than the alternative.

IcePhoenix posted:

Or Crono Cross which had like 50 playable characters, with some being mutually exclusive or only obtainable at certain times.

Aphrodite posted:

Yeah but you had control there, it wasn't random.

ImpAtom posted:

Now that reviews are out I can basically say my opinion which is:

If you liked Xenoblade for the mechanics you'll like Xenoblade 2. If you liked it for the plot you might not. It's far, far, far closer to a Tales of (x) game than Xenoblade 1 or X.

Louisgod posted:

Shame Xenoblade 2 has turned into a loving generic predictable anime shitfest instead of the pioneer the first game was. The thing that made the original such a standout was how it broke traditional JRPG tropes (inns, saves, battles, you name it) but also offered a cast that was incredibly likable and a story that had really cool "WHAT THE gently caress" moments. The anime tropes that were in it were overshadowed by what the game got right.

I'm still holding out that XB2 has decent characters and a fun story and I can get over the other poo poo if the environments are fun to explore. It just seems Monolith has lost sight of what made the original game such a success and have fallen back to what made JRPGs stale and boring. At least the soundtrack is incredible.

e: ugh the Tales games have TERRRRRRRRRRIBLE plots. Abyss's story was so loving bad.

Louisgod posted:

Shame Xenoblade 2 has turned into a loving generic predictable anime shitfest instead of the pioneer the first game was. The thing that made the original such a standout was how it broke traditional JRPG tropes (inns, saves, battles, you name it) but also offered a cast that was incredibly likable and a story that had really cool "WHAT THE gently caress" moments. The anime tropes that were in it were overshadowed by what the game got right.

I'm still holding out that XB2 has decent characters and a fun story and I can get over the other poo poo if the environments are fun to explore. It just seems Monolith has lost sight of what made the original game such a success and have fallen back to what made JRPGs stale and boring. At least the soundtrack is incredible.

e: ugh the Tales games have TERRRRRRRRRRIBLE plots. Abyss's story was so loving bad.

Zore posted:

oh good another goddamn slapfight about 'anime'. that always ends really well and has lots of great discussion.

More importantly, have any of the reviews confirmed the Nopon is a permanent party member? That's probably my only dealbreaker atm. Some of the implications in the earlier interviews were throwing up red flags.

Tae posted:

Is xenoblade anime deniers the video game equivalent of flat earthers

Zore posted:

oh good another goddamn slapfight about 'anime'. that always ends really well and has lots of great discussion.

Calaveron posted:

What's anime because dragon ball and Akira and poo poo is anime and those things loving rock so if xb2 is like that then coolballs

Louisgod posted:

Shame Xenoblade 2 has turned into a loving generic predictable anime shitfest instead of the pioneer the first game was. The thing that made the original such a standout was how it broke traditional JRPG tropes (inns, saves, battles, you name it) but also offered a cast that was incredibly likable and a story that had really cool "WHAT THE gently caress" moments. The anime tropes that were in it were overshadowed by what the game got right.

TurnipFritter posted:

ImpAtom posted:

Now that reviews are out I can basically say my opinion which is:

If you liked Xenoblade for the mechanics you'll like Xenoblade 2. If you liked it for the plot you might not. It's far, far, far closer to a Tales of (x) game than Xenoblade 1 or X.

ImpAtom posted:

... Did we play the same Xenoblade? "Broke traditional JRPG tropes" is the last thing I'd say about it. It literally begins wtih the plucky over-talented young proagonist's village being destroyed by a mysterious evil force and ends with you using a lightsaber made of friendship to kill god.

Regy Rusty posted:

Any more detail you can give to why you feel this is the case? It's a bit disappointing to hear but on the other hand I've loved most of the Tales games I've played so it's hardly a dealbreaker.

It does make me wonder what exactly the secret sauce was that made XB1's plot work so well for me.

Calaveron posted:

It was very much like a very specific subset of the Japanese cartoon media genre but the characters were written as smart and knowledgeable that they played with those tropes well (the robot girlfriend, wizened mentor, strong tough childhood friend) and when they fulfilled a stereotype they were likeable and original about it (all those aforementioned tropes)

Endorph posted:

that isnt some subversive playing with tropes well or being original, thats just the writers/localizers being decent at their jobs. there isnt some sort of insane trick to that.

Calaveron posted:

You'd think there is I mean did you play any anime games before xb1
Of course you did I mean look at you

Endorph posted:

yes, the japanese did in fact make decently written games before xb1. a lot of them had way better writing than xb1, in fact!

Regy Rusty posted:

Any more detail you can give to why you feel this is the case? It's a bit disappointing to hear but on the other hand I've loved most of the Tales games I've played so it's hardly a dealbreaker.

It does make me wonder what exactly the secret sauce was that made XB1's plot work so well for me.

Calaveron posted:

It was very much like a very specific subset of the Japanese cartoon media genre but the characters were written as smart and knowledgeable that they played with those tropes well (the robot girlfriend, wizened mentor, strong tough childhood friend) and when they fulfilled a stereotype they were likeable and original about it (all those aforementioned tropes)

Endorph posted:

yes, the japanese did in fact make decently written games before xb1. a lot of them had way better writing than xb1, in fact!

ImpAtom posted:

To be honest I'd say that it's basically got a weaker start than Xenoblade 1. It follows some kinda-similar ideas but how Rex and Pyra meet is incredibly generic and it takes a fairly long time for the plot to kick into gear. It just feels more cliche from the very start and while I think it does some things well (without getting into spoilers), it never quite hits the same feeling to me as Xenoblade at its high points. My feeling on Xenoblade 1 is that not long after the truth about the Mechon reveal it starts to feel a lot more Traditional JRPG and Xenoblade 2 kind of starts in that zone instead.

Note that I wasn't that impressed with Xenoblade's plot overall. I liked the characters and worldsetting. But I thought it had a strong opening and it drew me in much easier than Xenoblade 2 did. The character designs impacted that a lot too. Pyra is absurdly hard to take seriously.


I don't see that at all to be honest. Most of them are certainly likable but I don't really see original. I don't think that's a critical dealbreaker mind you and I do like Xenoblade, but what it doesn't borrow from JRPGs it borrows from mecha anime.

Calaveron posted:

But I didn't play them so they don't count

CharlestheHammer posted:

I disagree with this but yeah XB1 isn't exactly in a class all it's own.

Endorph posted:

i mostly just get frustrated/annoyed when peoples response to playing a thing from a genre they havent played in years that they really like isn't 'wow, i wonder what cool stuff i missed out on/what cool stuff might be coming out' but a giant louisgid post.