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Hav posted:Have you considered being defence counsel for one of the largest crowdfunding successes ever? Unfortunately not barred in California. Now if they want to try and move the case to Illinois... Edit: Taxxe 
SpaceCurtisLeMay fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Dec 14, 2017 |
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Dec 14, 2017 16:19
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I'm 40 pages behind after yesterday's chaos and hilarity, but had to post this  
Quavers fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Dec 14, 2017 |
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Dec 14, 2017 16:19
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Orions Lord posted:Is this something that will take years in an courtroom? Judging CIG, and the actual real very scary and genuine law firm that has targeted them, I have a feeling this is going to be a hideously fast steam rolling. It’s possible CIG will be destroyed before the rumors about it even start. CIG can’t even make a public statement without backing up the reasons for litigation. It may very well end up being akin to a tank full of hungry snakes, and a single mouse thrown in with its feet all tied together and it was dipped in juicy meat sauce.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:23
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CIG makes the Cleveland Browns look competent.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:25
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C-Bangin' it 
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Good to know the backers aren’t the only ones CIG lies to and scams with impunity. Best drat Space Scam Ever.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:25
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hanales posted:Leonard French is live The chat on this is already golden. I hope someone is capturing it. "Sounds like CryTek wants to steal new technologies" "You can use our engine and we own you now" "Goons are hiveminded no soul" "It's like they didn't even read the contract they signed"
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Dec 14, 2017 16:27
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The Titanic posted:
First thing your in house counsel should be doing is telling everyone to shut the hell up and nobody but them writes and issues a statement. And that statement is what they said yesterday: "We believe this case is without merit and intend to fight it....no further comment".
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Dec 14, 2017 16:28
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The Titanic posted:Judging CIG, and the actual real very scary and genuine law firm that has targeted them, It's going to be a very minor point, but I'm used to seeing spelling mistakes in filings. The Skadden filing is perfect. SpaceCurtisLeMay posted:First thing your in house counsel should be doing is telling everyone to shut the hell up and nobody but them writes and issues a statement. And that statement is what they said yesterday: "We believe this case is without merit and intend to fight it....no further comment". Yeah, least said, least to clarify. They literally copped to one of the charges. Something else to note; we've touched on the problem that Judges/Juries aren't usually technical, but they've crafted this suit to be very basic and rotate around the GLA agreement, reducing arguments to a fairly simple binaric decision of whether the contract was breached or not. If this was more opinion-based, then it would be so drat weak as to be a dangling hook for a payoff, but it's fairly solid on the basis of the previous agreements. edit: I disagree with French. I suspect that if this was basically an attempt to drive for a settlement, then Skadden wouldn't be involved. Hav fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Dec 14, 2017 |
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Dec 14, 2017 16:28
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Taintrunner posted:What really fucks CIG is what this lawsuit looming over their cash flow is going to do to day to day operations. Who wants to buy fake ships to claim fake land for a fake game that might possibly be sued out of existence? The same people who wanted to buy fake ships and fake land for a fake game every other time Star Citizen was shown to be a freight train heading straight for oblivion.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:29
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Check the update https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/13/16767590/star-citizen-refund A second whale has hit the tower.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:30
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Beet Wagon posted:Face over IP to Case over IP was good too. Cry-sis puns are woefully underused, however.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:31
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Mokinokaro posted:Check the update Nice, a 'how the refund sausage is made' article. Edit: “We wrote to Cloud Imperium,” said Steve McFarland, CEO of the BBB. “‘Certainly, you cannot expect consumers to wait indefinitely for a return on their investment.’ We have not received a response.”
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Dec 14, 2017 16:37
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Colostomy Bag posted:CIG makes the Cleveland Browns look competent. Uh this is slightly FUD
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Dec 14, 2017 16:39
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Re: Ortwin (and Carl Jones) being named in the complaint. While there may be some bar-related actions against Ortwin as a result, I don't think this was included to exclude Ortwin from participating in the defense. Simply put, Crytek had a remedy available to them. If Ortwin did not satisfy them in terms of recusing himself during the contract negotiation, they could have simply not signed the contract until they WERE satisfied. I think the reason they are named is to demonstrate that CIG legal (Ortwin and Carl Jones), by virtue of their past history with Crytek, were intimately familiar with the terms of the license agreement, and therefore the interpretation should be less generous to the defendant. Typically, the burden is more heavily upon the company who wrote the contract, and this is an attempt to level the playing field in this regard. In other words, any CIG argument of 'Crytek just gave us pages of gobbledygook to sign, so we did. We didn't really know what all the terms meant, so if we promise not to do it again, can we just call it a lesson learned and move on?" should be off the table.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:39
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Colostomy Bag posted:CIG makes the Cleveland Browns look competent.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:41
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Mokinokaro posted:Check the update  I wonder if Charlie Hall believes me now.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:41
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Golli posted:I think the reason they are named is to demonstrate that CIG legal (Ortwin and Carl Jones), by virtue of their past history with Crytek, were intimately familiar with the terms of the license agreement, and therefore the interpretation should be less generous to the defendant. Bad faith. They mentioned how Carl Jones left Crytek to join CiG after negotiating with Ortwin for the GLA. It's an oddity for it to be mentioned without a 'therefore', but it represents background. Just a quick mention about 'Crytek is broke'. They got $70 million from Amazon in 2015. If they were under that value, it would have suited Amazon to simply buy the whole thing and settle the debts. Crytek is down to Frankfurt, Istanbul and Kiev. That's got to be a lower burn rate than CiG. Did the goon survey include an option for the game being finished by a completely different developer? Hav fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Dec 14, 2017 |
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Dec 14, 2017 16:45
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Bayonnefrog posted:Yup. That's why I'm not getting too excited over this. If SC and CIG ever do go down I'll believe it when I see it. They've incredulously milked people this far so what is one lawsuit? This is a real existential threat to CIG. The asteroid hasn't landed, but there's a big boulder trailing fire on track to smash into Chicxulub while the lumbering thumbosaurs are absent-mindedly grazing on whales. Even if it breaks up a bit during the descent the pieces are enough to cause more than mild discomfort.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:52
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Hav posted:Bad faith. They mentioned how Carl Jones left Crytek to join CiG after negotiating with Ortwin for the GLA. It's an oddity for it to be mentioned without a 'therefore', but it represents background. Carl Jones is an issue, but frankly, they should have asked for Ortwin to not be involved in the negotiations, if the guy knew so much about how your license agreements were drafted. Which incidentally to me makes this even more hilarious. Here's the guy who had inside knowledge of how Crytek made their deals and he still hosed it all up.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:53
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kw0134 posted:This is a real existential threat to CIG. The asteroid hasn't landed, but there's a big boulder trailing fire on track to smash into Chicxulub while the lumbering thumbosaurs are absent-mindedly grazing on whales. Even if it breaks up a bit during the descent the pieces are enough to cause more than mild discomfort. It's the clearest signal yet that there's trouble t'mill, and it's going to put a dampener on any further money because strings could be attached. Long, sticky strings. Beet Wagon posted:I wonder if Charlie Hall believes me now. Goons were right. Lladre posted:Carl Jones is an issue, but frankly, they should have asked for Ortwin to not be involved in the negotiations, if the guy knew so much about how your license agreements were drafted. Everyone was friends when this started; It would have been a formality, noting everything down. They'd release the game within five years and the money would roll in. Obviously that relationship changed slightly when Crytek restructured in 2014 and jettisoned the remains of Free Radical, because it looked like they soured around 2015. I truly believe that they thought Crytek would fold; a dumb assumption because the next owner of the IP would start aggressively rounding up cash for an asset strip. It looks like Crytek actually has the money to fight these things, which is quite funny. Could they be actually coming after the game in a startling freelancer-esque decapitation strike? Probably not, but it keeps me rubbing. Hav fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Dec 14, 2017 |
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Dec 14, 2017 16:54
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Breetai posted:It's like a certain event has made them suddenly report accurate statistics for some reason. There’s a pretty good chance that the script running the “ensure around 80k of ships are bought each day” found its crontab entry deleted and the script magically deleted as if it never existed to begin with.  I have this feeling that right now a select group of people at CIG are in “burn everything! But uh... don’t make any trails or noise and definitely don’t make it seem like we’re burning everything” mode. 
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Dec 14, 2017 16:55
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Charlie Hall in September posted:That there is an entire community on Reddit dedicated to helping people pull as much money as they can out of the project as quickly as possible should come as no surprise. That it is filled with hateful imagery depicting members of the Star Citizen team is, frankly, disgusting. So, to, is Reddit’s abdication of any responsibility to police the communities that it hosts, but I digress. Charlie Hall in December posted:Schulz is not the only one requesting his money back. We’ve reported on individuals before, some who have gone to great lengths, to get their money back. The entire situation raises the question: Exactly how much money in refunds has the team behind Star Citizen given out?  Seem's like Ol' Charlie's got a touch of the FUD
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Dec 14, 2017 16:56
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The Titanic posted:There’s a pretty good chance that the script running the “ensure around 80k of ships are bought each day” found its crontab entry deleted and the script magically deleted as if it never existed to begin with. "burn casual" Beet Wagon posted:Seem's like Ol' Charlie's got a touch of the FUD Disgusting how people will help other people out. loving socialism writ large.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:59
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TheAgent posted:So I guess it really is Turbulent coming for them next. Please, god no. I'm already dying of laughter. Can't take any more.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:59
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Colostomy Bag posted:CIG makes the Cleveland Browns look competent. Now that I think about it, Star Citizen reminds me a lot of the post-move, pre-return Browns.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:02
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peter gabriel posted:No, there is no other road than 100% comedy here.  Omg HAHAHAHA.Thread is soooo good right now. I could honestly have quoted nearly any one of you wonderful posters. Proud of you goons. Great drama Derek, any idea how long CryTek has been in contact with Skadden over this?
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Dec 14, 2017 17:02
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Can anyone post the original "Inevitable consequence of piracy" from the CIG forums please?
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Dec 14, 2017 17:04
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CIG: We would like to show the court our totally adequate paperwork but the Lesnicks have eaten it. *shows Ben photos before and after Star Citizen*
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Dec 14, 2017 17:04
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The Titanic posted:I have this feeling that right now a select group of people at CIG are in “burn everything! But uh... don’t make any trails or noise and definitely don’t make it seem like we’re burning everything” mode. I sense a disturbance in the verse. Its as if a billion comments lines cried out all at once. Ctrl+A Ctrl+F Replace 'CryEngine' with 'Always was Lumberyard nothing to see here buy a ship! Oh poo poo here comes San...'
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Dec 14, 2017 17:07
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 Hmmm.......
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Dec 14, 2017 17:07
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SPERMCUBE.ORG posted:Uh this is slightly FUD Good chance they both go winless.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:12
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwLWx7CBI1w&t=290s
AP fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Dec 14, 2017 |
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Dec 14, 2017 17:13
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Hav posted:
I'm of similar opinion here. There might be something to the copyright claims. I know from experience that you have to be careful when hiring even contractors to modify the source of a product. A contractor downloading a copy via SVN/GIT to their own laptop in order to do the contracted work can be infringement because that counts as redistribution of code. If it is because IT guy isn't a lawyer and didn't know better this is usually overlooked. Vendor says, "um hey you can't do this so lets work out a deal". You pay said vendor for a change to the contract and they give you permission to allow that contractor to do their work provided said contractor agrees to the other terms of the contract or some arrangement like that. And given the complex web of subsidiaries and sister companies this could go badly for CIG if they didn't dot i's and cross t's. What if the GLA was with Cloud Imperium Games, but they forgot to add Foundry 42, Ltd. to the list. CryTek might be fishing here a little hoping that something like that did occur. Like you said, must judges and juries aren't technically minded so a lot of the copyright stuff might be hard to argue and convince people unless CIG did something just absolutely beyond stupid. If that part of the case ends up being predicated upon technicalities you'll lose the jury. The meat of the case though is pretty straight forward contract law. I think that will be easier for any jury to understand and prove before a jury. When I showed the complaint to my wife last night, she's the one with litigation experience and is still a practicing lawyer in the house, her response was: "drat, have these people (CIG) never seen an IT contract before?"
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Dec 14, 2017 17:17
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SpaceCurtisLeMay posted:The meat of the case though is pretty straight forward contract law. I think that will be easier for any jury to understand and prove before a jury. When I showed the complaint to my wife last night, she's the one with litigation experience and is still a practicing lawyer in the house, her response was: "drat, have these people (CIG) never seen an IT contract before?" It's curiously elegant and to the point. Thanks for your perspective on this. SpaceCurtisLeMay posted:A contractor downloading a copy via SVN/GIT to their own laptop in order to do the contracted work can be infringement because that counts as redistribution of code. If it is because IT guy isn't a lawyer and didn't know better this is usually overlooked. We prosecuted someone who walked away with proprietary code. As a coder, I keep my code on a completely different machine from the business code, and DO NOT mix them. Likewise, OS for my company is different from me doing OS in my free time. Open source has kinda spoiled a lot of people who don't know that it was a direct reaction to the concept of protecting source code, and particularly software licensing, and how that plays out in the modern world. I've had to entirely re-write code who's provenance is unknown (I'm a slave to copyright headers because it reduces ambiguity). Weirdly, this is leading to a generation who don't understand that coding up a little something at work for your own purposes means that the people paying you own it. Hav fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Dec 14, 2017 |
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Dec 14, 2017 17:24
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Virtual Captain posted:
33K views today. TheAgent posted:the great thing is you can be a layman and totally see how loving bad this is  Without the actual filing, and being as clear as it is this could be swept under the rug the way Ortwin did last time. Have citizens labeled this gish-gallop yet?
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Dec 14, 2017 17:26
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That copyright guys analysis was a bit disappointing on the laughs front. Most likely they will settle and either way we won't hear anything for a month or more.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:27
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Unless we get to see the contract it's a lot of wheel spinning until they either settle out of court or the big move happens. Like the EA published Wing Commander game developed by Crytek.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:29
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Hav posted:Weirdly, this is leading to a generation who don't understand that coding up a little something at work for your own purposes means that the people paying you own it. Depends on the company. I've worked under three different software firms that have a "anything you code in your spare time, we own it too" clause as part of the employment contract.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:31
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quote:The big boss has the final say anyway which delays the hiring process considerably. Just  if that is referring to Chris. Won't even let a simple department like customer service have autonomy.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:33
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